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The non-famous wealthy generally end up with suspended sentences, probation, or incarceration in minimum security facilities as part of a plea bargain. DAs prefer plea bargins for a number of reasons: avoids the time and expense of a trial, constitutes another conviction for their record, and may lead to further convictions depending on what information the defendant is willing to trade for a more lenient sentence. Wealthy white collar criminals are unlikely to have any prior felony convictions, presumably nonviolent, and will be represented by expensive, highly skilled and well connected attorneys. Race may be a factor, but one present regardless of the severity of the crime. The lawyers are obviously going to have an impact, but the nature of the crimes plays an equally large role. Sending someone convicted of fraud to the same facility as, say, an armed robber is inappropriate even in a system absent of violence and corruption. The sort of rehabilitation and security necessary for each type of inmate is clearly quite different. The problem is not that the wealthy, white collar criminals get it easy, but that the majority of inmates in the system inhabit a dystopic nightmare. The sane solution to this disparity is not to treat white collar criminals more harshly. Wanting anyone to be exposed to the brutally inhumane conditions suffered by the average inmate is indicative of the same vengeful cruelty that resulted in those conditions.
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Aug 21, 2010 17:31
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I guess 2.5 million+ people in prison isn't enough. Now they've resorted to Bait & Switching refugees directly into the system.
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Aug 22, 2010 00:40
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21stCentury posted:Wow, i read about the ICE Castles in this thread (or the LF one), but jailing Haiti refugees as soon as they're off the plane? What the gently caress? Am I misunderstanding something?
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Aug 22, 2010 14:33
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Deleuzionist posted:If illegal immigrants are jailed because it's profitable * then detaining people who have little means of challenging their detainment is a masterstroke of an idea on how to expand the labour pool with minimum costs, something that Arizona businessmen seem to have figured out*. As long as a country takes refugees no one asks what happens to them, and bonding them into legal slavery isn't even a far-fetched idea considering the historical scope of US complicity in Haiti's lack of functioning institutions, the devastation of its domestic trade, and deplorable human rights violations. Okay, now... I'm just speechless. This is plain horrible.
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Aug 22, 2010 16:56
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21stCentury posted:Okay, now... I'm just speechless. This is plain horrible. America was built on slavery, it seems reasonable to return to it when faced with economic challenges.
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Aug 23, 2010 06:12
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Deleuzionist posted:If illegal immigrants are jailed because it's profitable * then detaining people who have little means of challenging their detainment is a masterstroke of an idea on how to expand the labour pool with minimum costs, something that Arizona businessmen seem to have figured out*. It's good to know that Americans can solve our financial crisis and immigration 'problem' with true innovation. People of Hispanic origin should really consider paying Gov. Brewer respect with a nice golden stream of appreciation at her burial place. What a disgusting country this has become.
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Aug 23, 2010 06:46
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baquerd posted:America was built on slavery, it seems reasonable to return to it when faced with economic challenges. It wasn't just built on slavery, it was founded on it. I don't know why Australia is the only country that gets poo poo for this, but many American colonists were likewise prisoners sold to servitude to keep the cost of the prison system down.
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Aug 23, 2010 08:38
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Nonsense posted:It's good to know that Americans can solve our financial crisis and immigration 'problem' with true innovation. It's not just Latinos who have reason to dislike Brewer- after all, she canceled S-CHIP leaving 47,000 low-income kids without medical care, and costing the state hundreds of millions of dollars in federal funding. She's also kicking 310,000 people off of Medicaid, and still more cuts are on the way, too. Hey it was either that or enact a one-cent sales tax. I'm not joking, that's how we roll in Arizona.
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Aug 23, 2010 09:53
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HidingFromGoro posted:It's not just Latinos who have reason to dislike Brewer- after all, she canceled S-CHIP leaving 47,000 low-income kids without medical care, and costing the state hundreds of millions of dollars in federal funding. She's also kicking 310,000 people off of Medicaid, and still more cuts are on the way, too. Yeah, but the poor don't vote, even the few that we haven't disenfranchised yet.
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Aug 23, 2010 16:28
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HidingFromGoro posted:It's not just Latinos who have reason to dislike Brewer- after all, she canceled S-CHIP leaving 47,000 low-income kids without medical care, and costing the state hundreds of millions of dollars in federal funding. She's also kicking 310,000 people off of Medicaid, and still more cuts are on the way, too. Actually, we could raise other taxes here. However, the Republicans hold their power largely as a result of keeping taxes low. Since they are firmly in control of both the governorship and the legislature, they'd have to take the rap for raising any taxes to balance the budget. So, they won't go there. Note how they put the current sales tax increase on the ballot so they wouldn't have to take direct responsibility even for that come next election.
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Aug 23, 2010 16:51
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Aug 23, 2010 19:37
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21stCentury posted:Wow, i read about the ICE Castles in this thread (or the LF one), but jailing Haiti refugees as soon as they're off the plane? What the gently caress? Am I misunderstanding something? What happened with the Haitians is more an indictment of ICE than the military. Them being on the planes was almost certainly an unintended result of the not-uncommon carelessness of enlisted folks; instead of a plot to deliberately shanghai some earthquake survivors into ICE Castles- an assumption which might be difficult for some to believe given Gitmo, abu-Ghraib, Bagram, etc- but borne out, I think, by the evidence and (relatively) small scale of the situation. If that's what they wanted, there would have been separate planes, and once the story broke a sacrificial lamb would have been offered up by DoD (as with Lynndie England). Or they would have gone to the military's network of secret prisons instead of shuffled around with ICE's Keystone Kops. Or, or... The list of would-haves and could-haves is so long, imo, that the "razor theory" or whatever indicates the military didn't mean to bring them here. As far as the bonus/profit motive, it does play a part in the overall mistreatment of immigrant detainees. I've posted a lot about rapes-by-staff and other human-rights violations in privatized immigrant detention, as well as the cut corners, cost overruns, corruption, race to the bottom... all the things inherent in private incarceration, to the point that single facilities or single companies have the lion's share of these types of problems (usually directly correlated with their profits). This, though; this almost certainly isn't a collusion between the military and ICE. I'm certain it's just good old ICE focusing on the letter vs the spirit of the law, and choosing not to take various factors (such as intent, for example) into account- just like usual. It's part of the national freak-out over immigration; and I know it better than most, I'm in AZ where we've been freaking out over immigration for a good long while. I even called it back during the health care "debate" thing. I used to say, you think this is bad- wait till there's a national "debate" over immigrants/"illegal aliens." And now that it's just barely starting you already have folks talking about repealing parts of the Constitution, and it'll only get worse as both sides try to deflect criticism of the economy & the "free trade" policies and/or lack of regulation that contributed greatly to the mess we're in, along with all the other institutional/governmental/corporate failures... There's a storm coming- believe that.
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Aug 23, 2010 21:57
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Beaters posted:Actually, we could raise other taxes here. However, the Republicans hold their power largely as a result of keeping taxes low. Since they are firmly in control of both the governorship and the legislature, they'd have to take the rap for raising any taxes to balance the budget. So, they won't go there. Note how they put the current sales tax increase on the ballot so they wouldn't have to take direct responsibility even for that come next election. That is still no excuse, and take it from me- given my very low income, what taxes I pay are the most regressive. That a regressive tax such as a sales tax was the only option on the table speaks volumes about Arizona. That we'd throw 357,000 people (including nearly 50K impoverished children!) to the wolves wrt they health care speaks libraries- it speaks entire cities. That's more than the entire population of Belize. It's almost the entire amount of people employed by UPS... worldwide. It's morally indefensible- taxes, elections, or not. (NOTE: I'm not accusing you of defending it!)
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Aug 23, 2010 22:41
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HidingFromGoro, I just want to thank you for all of the information. It has been incredibly enlightening. I'm fairly knowledgeable about what is legally allowed on the investigation side of the criminal justice system if you're at all interested. That will probably shock you as well if you are at all interested in privacy. And I'm sorry to ask for more, but do you have any information at all about sex and gender discrimination in sentencing? Or any sex or gender-related issues at all? I feel like I always come up short in that research department and you seem to be at the top of your game in terms of coming up with badass links. I've heard anecdotal stories about women getting longer sentences for killing their husbands than men that kill their wives and I've never been able to back up those claims with any evidence. And a lot of the unique characteristics of women in the penal system interest me. (I know that sounds morbid, those stories about pregnant women losing their babies are some of the saddest ones in the thread.) Edit: Oh, sorry, but it's not like I haven't tried. So have a link duders. http://law.bepress.com/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1003&context=alea AmbassadorFriendly fucked around with this message at 06:25 on Aug 24, 2010 |
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Aug 24, 2010 05:59
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AmbassadorFriendly posted:sex and gender Funny you should ask- HidingFromGoro posted:
With few exceptions, all of these people are involved with the elimination of prison rape, the reform of our prison system, and overall social justice. On the national level. It is an enormous investment of time, and spirit, and money- and they are not rich, and they are not paid to do this. I have met some of these people, held them in my arms. No, that's not right- they held me in theirs. Their conviction, their dedication- their passion- is unquestionable, absolute. Without exception they personify strength, beauty, dignity, and courage- to a degree you can't possibly imagine. HidingFromGoro posted:Mothers Among Fastest Growing Prison Population HidingFromGoro posted:
HidingFromGoro fucked around with this message at 12:39 on Aug 24, 2010 |
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Aug 24, 2010 12:36
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And it's not just women/LGBT
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HidingFromGoro posted:Funny you should ask- Thanks a lot man! I'll try to post more stuff that I find. If any of you have access to a university library you should be able to find the rest of this article that concludes that mandatory minimum sentences "foster circumvention by judges, juries, and prosecutors; reduce accountability and transparency; produce injustices in many cases; and result in wide unwarranted disparities in the handling of similar cases. No country besides the United States has adopted many mandatory penalty laws, and none has adopted laws as severe as those in the United States." I'm sorry I can't find a PDF or something for those that don't have such access. http://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/abs/10.1086/599368?journalCode=cj "Maximum security prisons may therefore have the opposite effect of rehabilitation, ironically creating more danger than they contain." http://www.somatosphere.net/2010/03/lorna-rhodes-total-confinement.html Is long-term solitary confinement torture? (Hint: yes) http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009/03/30/090330fa_fact_gawande And another article confirming what we already know. http://theweek.com/article/index/100575/The_prison_nation
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Aug 24, 2010 20:27
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HidingFromGoro posted:What happened with the Haitians is more an indictment of ICE than the military. Them being on the planes was almost certainly an unintended result of the not-uncommon carelessness of enlisted folks; instead of a plot to deliberately shanghai some earthquake survivors into ICE Castles- an assumption which might be difficult for some to believe given Gitmo, abu-Ghraib, Bagram, etc- but borne out, I think, by the evidence and (relatively) small scale of the situation. If that's what they wanted, there would have been separate planes, and once the story broke a sacrificial lamb would have been offered up by DoD (as with Lynndie England). Or they would have gone to the military's network of secret prisons instead of shuffled around with ICE's Keystone Kops. Or, or... Or to put it shortly, there is very little reason to believe the US military of today would be directly involved in what can factually be called slave trade, considering that they outsourced such* activities* years* ago*.
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Aug 25, 2010 01:26
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Deleuzionist posted:Or to put it shortly, there is very little reason to believe the US military of today would be directly involved in what can factually be called slave trade, considering that they outsourced such* activities* years* ago*. There's more overlap with PMC's and prison than you might think, at least in my experience. I've known more than one person who's worked at a PMC (even back during the 90's when they proudly self-identified as 'mercenaries') in between prison sentences- including a senior Aryan Brotherhood officer of some renown, I'm talking a validated TCB kind of guy. Nowdays PMC's are supposedly more selective with who they pick, and do background checks, etc. but still, even now I've run into folks who've worked there within the past 5 years; and there is zero ambiguity about who these guys are based solely on tattoos, to say nothing of whatever a background check would turn up. I believe the reason there aren't even more folks like the aforementioned guy in PMC's is because they've been working with military for so long, they can just recruit right from there. You know, run the game of hey bro, why re-enlist, just come work with us and do the same stuff you're doing now for a 600% raise. That type of stuff. "TCB" is "Taking Care of Business." In prison that means killing people, specifically killing for profit, either yours or (more commonly) the gang's. Now, you can false-flag if you want- the guy at the tattoo shop will give you a raised eyebrow at the least, though- but if you wind up in the wrong bar or the "bad neighborhood" you'll be in for some trouble. If you wind up in prison with a TCB-related tattoo it might get removed with a crude (and dull) knife, but more likely you'll just be killed.
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Aug 25, 2010 06:21
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In this month's Atlantic: http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2010/09/prison-without-walls/8195/ Outlines how through increased used of GPS and other forms of technology it may be possible to avoid incarceration for a number of people convicted of crimes. One plus outlined in the article in this idea is: "U.S. prisons are astonishingly harsh, with as many as 20 percent of male inmates facing sexual assault" The author also describes (in the tagline) the US prison system as being "a failure by almost any measure".
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Aug 25, 2010 22:53
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HidingFromGoro posted:There's more overlap with PMC's and prison than you might think, at least in my experience. I've known more than one person who's worked at a PMC (even back during the 90's when they proudly self-identified as 'mercenaries') in between prison sentences- including a senior Aryan Brotherhood officer of some renown, I'm talking a validated TCB kind of guy. Nowdays PMC's are supposedly more selective with who they pick, and do background checks, etc. but still, even now I've run into folks who've worked there within the past 5 years; and there is zero ambiguity about who these guys are based solely on tattoos, to say nothing of whatever a background check would turn up. I believe the reason there aren't even more folks like the aforementioned guy in PMC's is because they've been working with military for so long, they can just recruit right from there. You know, run the game of hey bro, why re-enlist, just come work with us and do the same stuff you're doing now for a 600% raise. That type of stuff.
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Aug 26, 2010 22:49
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This is at least somewhat related to prisons. http://www.fresnobee.com/2010/08/21/2049509/report-questions-contract-public.html Essentially, Fresno county (which is much bigger than people think) is converting to a contract Public Defender to save money. California's government Public Defenders are actually pretty good (in large part because PDs are paid the same as DAs), but these contract outfits are just evil. This is sure to lead to more wrongful convictions. The Ciummo people are notoriously incompetent. Some privates I know who head up to some of thier rual counties are just shocked at the quality of representation. I know this isn't that shocking to places like Texas where most of the PDs are contract and incompetent, but this is tearing down one of the better systems in the nation. quote:As a top administrator for Madera County, Stell Manfredi oversaw the firm's work as the contract public defender for more than 20 years. Not on my watch! quote:Asked why he wanted to work in criminal defense, Ciummo talks about the excitement of trial work, and the colorful and interesting people he meets in the court system. He doesn't mention anything about protecting the rights of the accused. nm fucked around with this message at 06:07 on Aug 27, 2010 |
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Aug 27, 2010 05:33
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This is new: 200-inmate riot at Folsom Prison. Seven inmates wound up in the hospital after guards opened fire. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-11118897 "I'm stuck in Folsom prison, and time keeps draggin' on. . ."
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Aug 28, 2010 20:44
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Sir John Falstaff posted:This is new: 200-inmate riot at Folsom Prison. Seven inmates wound up in the hospital after guards opened fire. There is over 2.3 million people in prisons around the US, the US military only has 2.8 million personnel. I wonder what would happen if one of these riots was successful and a modern day Spartacus emerged. In Roman times they weren't able to quash the rebellion before it went out of hand because the legions where occupied fighting two foreign wars.....
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Aug 29, 2010 20:11
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The numbers are somewhat deceptive there. Spartacus was able to arm his troops to a (relatively) equal level to his Roman army competitors; the US army has access to resources that a widescale prison rebellion can, realistically, never hope to attain. That said, even a statewide coordinated prison rebellion in a place like California or Texas would be astoundingly destructive.
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Aug 29, 2010 20:45
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SpaceDrake posted:The numbers are somewhat deceptive there. Spartacus was able to arm his troops to a (relatively) equal level to his Roman army competitors; the US army has access to resources that a widescale prison rebellion can, realistically, never hope to attain. Quite true, in the end they wouldn't have chance (as Spartacus didn't) but the military would be very reluctant to start carpet bombing US cities to flush out rebels. It would be extremely hard for them to operate in the way they are accustomed.
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Aug 29, 2010 20:56
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While I understand what you guys are saying, I have to respectfully disagree. On one hand it is kinda satisfying thinking about prisoners breaking out and causing mass destruction as a form of vengeance against the society that has spurned them. At the same time, I don't think anything would crush the prisoner's rights movement more than a widespread, violent insurrection.quote:It would be extremely hard for them to operate in the way they are accustomed. You mean the Army wouldn't be able to brutally murder whomever they see fit? What a shame 
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Aug 29, 2010 21:02
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CH3-CH2-OH posted:While I understand what you guys are saying, I have to respectfully disagree. On one hand it is kinda satisfying thinking about prisoners breaking out and causing mass destruction as a form of vengeance against the society that has spurned them. At the same time, I don't think anything would crush the prisoner's rights movement more than a widespread, violent insurrection. I'm not really cheering for such an outcome, I abhor violence of any kind. I just think it's something to consider when you oppress large masses of people they tend to rebel.
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Aug 29, 2010 21:31
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Just because it seems vaguely relevant, I was at a wedding today and this woman was there as well. I didn't know at the time what her research was focused on, nor did I speak to her directly, but I would have loved to shake her hand and thank her for it. This page alone ought to be enough to give her a god drat medal.
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Aug 29, 2010 22:28
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Rutibex posted:I'm not really cheering for such an outcome, I abhor violence of any kind. I just think it's something to consider when you oppress large masses of people they tend to rebel. I'll answer this much in the same way I answered the guy in the gun control thread. Think about what the violent overthrow of the US government means, just in terms of the immediate consequences: mass killings of public officials, most rich people, and a sizeable chunk of the American population; worldwide economy thrown into abject ruin; most (all?) wealth evaporates overnight; military equipment (including nuclear weapons) falling into the hands of whoever; on and on. Look what happened across the world in the wake of 9/11, or when some banks decided to play games with mortgage securities- a US civil war would be a nightmare of unimaginable scope. The government would stop at nothing to prevent that from happening, no matter the cost. Any activity which got even remotely close to threatening that would be utterly crushed. A bunch of people just got shot in Folsom, and 99% of the country doesn't even know it happened, let alone why- let alone care. Look at how far they go already in peacetime, or Katrina, Waco, etc. There is no limit to how far they will go if the the upper classes' entire way of life is threatened (along with their actual lives), to say nothing of what would happen if the very existence of the government/country is on the line. They would reduce whole cities to ashes, if necessary. The idea of a large-scale violent revolt / civil war happening in the US (much less a successful one) is ludicrous, exceeded in stupidity only by those who believe civilian-owned firearms will pose any meaningful opposition to government forces in such a situation.
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Aug 30, 2010 01:01
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SpaceDrake posted:The numbers are somewhat deceptive there. Spartacus was able to arm his troops to a (relatively) equal level to his Roman army competitors; the US army has access to resources that a widescale prison rebellion can, realistically, never hope to attain. While in a sense this is clearly true I think it's hilarious that even in 2010 the whole "bigger weapons = win the fight" thing is still in people's head. In the last 40 years we have said that over and over and then gotten beat or battled to a deadlock by sticks and old Russian guns at least 4 times. Prisoners are US citizens with families, what would we do? call air strikes? If there was a riot and the 10,000 people in cook county jail escaped, what exactly would the biggest guns do? you can't just spray Illinois with mortars or something.
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Aug 30, 2010 01:44
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mew force shoelace posted:If there was a riot and the 10,000 people in cook county jail escaped, what exactly would the biggest guns do? you can't just spray Illinois with mortars or something. Well, if they contained the pattern to just Chicago, I'm sure the rest of America would be pretty forgiving.
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Aug 30, 2010 01:47
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CH3-CH2-OH posted:While I understand what you guys are saying, I have to respectfully disagree. On one hand it is kinda satisfying thinking about prisoners breaking out and causing mass destruction as a form of vengeance against the society that has spurned them. At the same time, I don't think anything would crush the prisoner's rights movement more than a widespread, violent insurrection. Oh god, yeah, don't misunderstand what I was saying. I'm not cheering for some kind of violent uprising at all, I was just pointing out that prison riots and theoretical prison rebellions of today are hard to compare to those of the past, since The Law of today has tools that prisoners can't really get access to. That being said: mew force shoelace posted:Prisoners are US citizens with families, what would we do? call air strikes? Just look at this thread, consider public opinion of criminal offenders in this country. And then consider what'd happen if they revolted and how the government could paint that. If they're hiding among civilians, they probably wouldn't do anything "extreme", but if they're organized in a place where civilian casualties would be "light" and they're in open rebellion? You bet your rear end there'd be airstrikes, and the government would probably bet that a majority of people would support the effort to put down "an unjust revolt by vile criminals with no respect for The Flag And Constitution". And the sad part is, the government would probably be right, people would see prisoners as the villains, and like CH3 said, the cause of prisoner's rights would be set back a hundred years. I hope a widescale prison revolt never happens.
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Aug 30, 2010 02:40
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SpaceDrake posted:Just look at this thread, consider public opinion of criminal offenders in this country. And then consider what'd happen if they revolted and how the government could paint that. If they're hiding among civilians, they probably wouldn't do anything "extreme", but if they're organized in a place where civilian casualties would be "light" and they're in open rebellion? You bet your rear end there'd be airstrikes, and the government would probably bet that a majority of people would support the effort to put down "an unjust revolt by vile criminals with no respect for The Flag And Constitution". I'm not buying it, I think a statement like this has gone past realistic things that could happen and into crazy talk. The government could not carpet bomb US citizens pretty much no matter what and have anyone rally behind that as okay.
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Aug 30, 2010 03:30
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Guy gets locked up for filming evidence of child abuse. Guards proceed to torture him, ignore his requests for assistance and reports of violence as he's beaten and repeatedly raped by his cellmate. Guy even complains to the chaplain, who goes to the guards who continue to do nothing. And then: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100829/ap_on_re_us/us_prison_injustice Vicious, feared attack leaves Pa. inmate comatose "The 29-year-old former Connecticut man was heading back to his cell block from a recreation area when he was ambushed by an inmate with a history of violence who was supposed to be locked down — but wasn't. The inmate knocked him to the floor and stomped on his head at least 15 times "with all his might," according to a police report. Pinto's face was shattered, and he suffered brain injuries that left him comatose" "He wrote that he was repeatedly sexually assaulted by an inmate he dubbed "the silverback." "First night is bleeding but no penetration," wrote Pinto, who also referred to his rapist by name. "The next night (and never again, he lies) is full-on jailhouse Bubba." He reported the rape to authorities, but no investigation was conducted, said the Rev. William Pickard, a Catholic priest and the prison's longtime chaplain. "A former inmate who lived on the same block as Pinto confirmed the abuse. The inmate, who spoke on condition of anonymity because he fears retribution against family members who hold local patronage jobs, told The Associated Press that he saw guards brutalize Pinto. He said he saw guards force Pinto to strip down and stand for prolonged periods in his cell, stomp on his toes while parading him naked in the common room, slap him hard upside the head, and toss his meals in the garbage." Jesus loving Christ. He pleaded guilty to one count of making child pornography. Going by what I know about the US justice system, he likely pleaded just to avoid a long trial at the threat of the DA, guilty or not. Even if he is guilty, this essentially amounts to a government employee causing and/or sanctioning harm onto a citizen. What the gently caress.
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Aug 30, 2010 05:28
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olylifter posted:Guy gets locked up for filming evidence of child abuse. Guards proceed to torture him, ignore his requests for assistance and reports of violence as he's beaten and repeatedly raped by his cellmate. That is sincerely disgusting. Everyone involved should be punished severely and lose their jobs at the bare minimum. Of course the justice system in prison is a loving fraternity so the only victim here will be Poor ol Pinto.
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Aug 30, 2010 05:39
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olylifter posted:Guy gets locked up for filming evidence of child abuse. Guards proceed to torture him, ignore his requests for assistance and reports of violence as he's beaten and repeatedly raped by his cellmate. Oh my god, the loving comments on that story: quote:When you have sex (or they just have sex with you) with the same person night after night after night, it's not rape. You're married to him. I wonder where the happy couple is registered. I'd like to get them a nice gravy bowl.
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Aug 30, 2010 05:50
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a handful of dust posted:Oh my god, the loving comments on that story: Yet, if I went after their guns they'd be screaming bloody murder.
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Aug 30, 2010 05:56
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nm posted:These people clearly value the 8th amendment. Buddy this is America, where you are guilty until proven Innocent, and then still guilty anyways. I also love the excess of slippery slope arguments on sites like these. quote:If you ask me our justice system sucks. If he is guilty of child pornograph then he should be taken out back and shot. It's only a matter of time before he goes from child porn to child molestation. Then what are they gonna do then. They will throw him in prision for another few years, and then he will be let out to do it again. Granted I do understand that some of them do turn their lives around, but when do you say enough is enough. I love to hear that they always complain about their rights in prision, but where were the rights of the people they raped, murdered, or robbed. Where were their rights? So if you as me I will tell you our justice system is to relaxed. We need to bring back the death penalty to all states, and use a rapid jury system to prosecute them. Instead of taking 10 years to convict and send someone to death row. Just imagine how much tax dollars we would save. I do believe prisioners have rights, but I believe their rights should be extremely limited. Wow this lady sure knows how to redefine criminal punishments! quote:I agree with Tim, Child porn should be capitol, Child molestation should be 15hour hardest labor 5hours of standing 30mins of Recreation which is reading mail from victims family(standing) 30mins of sitting on nails 3hours of torture. Everyday for life!!! Yes in that order and the only break you get is when you beg for mercy, but if someone hears you beg you then will be punished. There's no place for you on this Earth This guy has a vivid imagination.. quote:God only knows how many victims he left behind in Connecticut. He MOLESTED kids on tape, duct taped their eyes, ballgagged their mouths, put them in restraints, Innocent our year olds, 5 year olds repeatedly. He should have been mercifully euthanized to begin with. There is no cure for what ails him. ...
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Aug 30, 2010 06:13
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HidingFromGoro posted:I'll answer this much in the same way I answered the guy in the gun control thread. Think about what the violent overthrow of the US government means, just in terms of the immediate consequences: mass killings of public officials, most rich people, and a sizeable chunk of the American population; worldwide economy thrown into abject ruin; most (all?) wealth evaporates overnight; military equipment (including nuclear weapons) falling into the hands of whoever; on and on. Look what happened across the world in the wake of 9/11, or when some banks decided to play games with mortgage securities- a US civil war would be a nightmare of unimaginable scope. The government would stop at nothing to prevent that from happening, no matter the cost. Any activity which got even remotely close to threatening that would be utterly crushed. A bunch of people just got shot in Folsom, and 99% of the country doesn't even know it happened, let alone why- let alone care. Look at how far they go already in peacetime, or Katrina, Waco, etc. There is no limit to how far they will go if the the upper classes' entire way of life is threatened (along with their actual lives), to say nothing of what would happen if the very existence of the government/country is on the line. They would reduce whole cities to ashes, if necessary.
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Aug 30, 2010 07:51
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| # ? May 30, 2024 03:15 |
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Nonsense posted:After reading the comments of average people about how people in prison are treated, and how we treat people overseas in our military escapades. Eh, I don't really give a gently caress about the fate of most of these assholes termed 'citizens' as if they're civilized thinking people. The number of people who actually believe this stuff is frightening; they're not just trolling or making inflammatory comments online. I don't think I've had a discussion about this kind of stuff outside of university where the majority of opinions weren't something along the lines of "gently caress em, they deserve worse," or "don't do the crime if you can't do the time, we coddle them too much as it is," etc. etc." Almost any discussion of prison abuse or prisoner rights/activism with average joes will get you at least one rear end in a top hat who pipes in with the old "take em out back and shoot em" line. At least in my experience. It's not something I really like to talk about outside of the internet or classes anymore, because so many people seem to have such nasty opinions about it. Last time I had jury duty half the jurors assumed the defendant was guilty simply because he was in court: "If he hadn't done anything, why'd the cop arrest him? He must've had a reason!"
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Aug 30, 2010 09:07
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