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Save me jeebus posted:Don't go to law school you numbskull. Yes, I know this is in the OP, but it really needs to be the first text
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Aug 30, 2010 08:00
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nm posted:That said, all the people with hard science degrees I know are doing better than those that don't. Keeping in mind though, that the majority of firms that can practice in patent prosecution aren't hiring outside the top 10-15% anyway. And that isn't fully counting the lovely job market affecting hiring budgets across the board. So it really is just as horrible and depressing.
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Aug 30, 2010 08:21
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SWATJester posted:Keeping in mind though, that the majority of firms that can practice in patent prosecution aren't hiring outside the top 10-15% anyway. And that isn't fully counting the lovely job market affecting hiring budgets across the board. If there are 40 people chasing every opening in general, there are only 30 per job in patent prosecution. So yeah.
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Aug 30, 2010 08:27
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Yeah, less people chasing each opening, but still have strict class rank requirements + patent bar eligibility requirements, which means less openings overall. So lets say you have a class of 500. Probably 425 of them will be unqualified to get a regular job due to the numbers game. That same 425 will probably be unqualified to get a patent prosecution job for the same reasons; but ALSO some portion of the remaining 75 will be ineligible due to no science background. Say 2/3rds of them. So with those numbers, it's more like 475 will probably be unqualified. The remainder then have to compete for far fewer available positions than their generalist counterparts do. So yes, it's less competition in terms of fewer eligible applicants, but arguably HARDER overall.
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Aug 30, 2010 08:45
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Leon Kowalski posted:My understanding is that they can get away with avoiding grad school. Are things so bad that even engineers need grad school? Engineers are probably still the best off of anyone in the present economy (except for skilled developers and UI designers who *really* can always find work), but it's not very good. Anecdotally, one of my friends graduated from UMass in the spring with a CS/EE degree and a very good record of college science fair projects; he only now got a job with an HVAC company on their assembly line. Another one majored in industrial engineering with a minor in economics and a core curriculum of mechanical engineering, had three years of summer work with ISO plants and a six month (unpaid) internship at one, but because he's Australian he needs a work visa, and no one will sponsor him because so many domestic grads are beating down their doors. Another friend graduated from UIUC with a dual degree in economics and physics in '08 and only two weeks ago found work as a clerk at AAA. Lawyers and journalists are probably the worst for work right now, but it ain't peachy for even the most marketable majors out there right now.
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Aug 30, 2010 12:52
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I kinda just want to become a cop but I'd probably be seen as some over-educated human being.
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Aug 30, 2010 13:20
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Literally every week I hear from some family friend how their kid is taking the LSAT or going to law school. Yesterday I heard from a guy about his son, who was touring in Europe the last few years playing in a rock and roll band (and getting paid for it), who decided to drop those shenanigans and get serious about life by going to law school. I gave dad a look of utter disbelief and he goes "I know, the LSAT's pretty tough, huh." Goddamn it people are insane. I'm going to open a law school.
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Aug 30, 2010 14:32
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CmdrSmirnoff posted:I kinda just want to become a cop but I'd probably be seen as some over-educated human being. Pretty sure I passed the written exam. It felt like it was just there to weed out the complete idiots, but since they do the interview stage after the physical exam, medical exam, and background investigation, it feels like the interview can't be that hard (why go through the cost of investigating so many people?) and the written exam really is the hard part. That's depressing, if accurate.
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Aug 30, 2010 15:10
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Phil Moscowitz posted:I'm going to open a law school. Let's make this a goon-run law school. If Chemerinsky can do it, so can we!
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Aug 30, 2010 15:21
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Ainsley, FYI - You are now licensed to pursue the American dream, buddy. The dean of Rutgers Law says so. http://www.abajournal.com/weekly/article/law_school_not_an_entitlement_program_dean_says
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Aug 30, 2010 15:43
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oh my god ahahahahahaha
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Aug 30, 2010 16:06
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Kase Im Licht posted:Took the test last week! Keep us posted, I'm really curious about how lawyers do in that environment.
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Aug 30, 2010 16:40
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Starting my second week of law school (let the berating begin). Just some initial observations: The reading is intense but I have some previous experience with case-based learning so I am doing a bit better than a lot of the students that I've spoken to managing my workload. The Socratic Method isn't all that frightening as long as you come well prepared. This, of course, my depend on your professors but as long as you get over the whole public-speaking phobia, getting called on isn't that big of a deal. Any Pacific Northwest students/lawyers out there want to dash my hopes and dreams by doling out some regional advice? Any general school advice that isn't listed in the OP?
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Aug 30, 2010 16:59
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Kirkzor posted:
I know nothing about the Pacific Northwest, but is it too late to get your money back?
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Aug 30, 2010 17:01
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Defleshed posted:Ainsley, FYI - Wow I want to slap that motherfucker
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Aug 30, 2010 17:45
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Kirkzor posted:Any Pacific Northwest students/lawyers out there want to dash my hopes and dreams by doling out some regional advice? Any general school advice that isn't listed in the OP? I'm at Berkeley but applied to many Seattle firms and a few Portland ones (I'm from Seattle). None have gotten back to me, but none have started callbacks yet. Seattle is small and insular, so is Portland, but there is a relatively strong IP field (nothing lose to silicon valley of course). There's a few national firms with strong outposts in Sea you should look into, like K&L Gates, Wilson Sonsini, Davis Wright Tremaine and Fenwick & West. Perkins Coie is also HQed there and the largest firm in the city. I'd say get good grades and be on a journal and hopefully walk in with strong work experience and be at at T14 but I'm all these things and have zero callbacks anywhere right now after 9 interviews. I'm praying the next couple days something drops, I honestly felt a few interviews went really well. 17 more to go.
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Aug 30, 2010 18:15
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SWATJester posted:Wow I want to slap that motherfucker Legal education gives students what 99.9 percent of humanity yearns for but is denied: control over one’s own life. It is a license to make of your life what you may, to live the American dream to its fullest.
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Aug 30, 2010 18:23
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post-OCI toast: "May none of our lives tragically be ended in suicide." Bonus: Fed-ex overnighted rejection letter from Sullivan & Cromwell. Napoleon I fucked around with this message at 18:48 on Aug 30, 2010 |
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Aug 30, 2010 18:43
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entris posted:I know nothing about the Pacific Northwest, but is it too late to get your money back? That question sounds premature. We don't even know if he's made his decision between a BMW and Benz.
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Aug 30, 2010 18:50
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spake the poet lloyd banks, beamer benz or bentley my jeans are never empty
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Aug 30, 2010 19:08
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Draile posted:Legal education gives students what 99.9 percent of humanity yearns for but is denied: control over one’s own life. It is a license to make of your life what you may, to live the American dream to its fullest. I did not realize that the American dream involved being a lawyer whether you like it or not and paying back student loans for 25 years
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Aug 30, 2010 19:29
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7StoryFall posted:This is anecdotal but I was told by an IP partner at a large firm (near the top of the Amlaw 100) that working as an examiner isn't the way to get into a large firm, if that's your goal. He told me that it "wouldn't be a good career move." That said, it was a single lawyer at a single firm. YMMV. Patents are weird in that you don't need to work at a large firm to rake in huge bucks thanks to all the pros-only firms with big clients, but you're going to be doing prosecution until you retire. edit: and you're not getting a job there anyway. WhiskeyJuvenile fucked around with this message at 19:46 on Aug 30, 2010 |
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Aug 30, 2010 19:42
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Thoras Hammer posted:At a party I brought a 1L going through orientation to tears telling her about how awful law school is and how drat difficult it is to find a job. I guess I am really effective at the "no jobs don't go die alone" speech. If you were that good at it, you wasted your eloquence on someone who had already matriculated and was starting her first semester. At that point, anything you say just makes the first semester that much more stressful. You do deserve praise if you actually convince someone not to apply or not to go, though. Napoleon I posted:Bonus: Fed-ex overnighted rejection letter from Sullivan & Cromwell. Yet some firms are wondering why they're still bleeding money.
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Aug 30, 2010 19:47
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Ainsley McTree posted:I did not realize that the American dream involved being a lawyer whether you like it or not and paying back student loans for 25 years Grumblefish is the dean of Rutgers Law
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Aug 30, 2010 19:50
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Draile posted:Legal education gives students what 99.9 percent of humanity yearns for but is denied: control over one’s own life. It is a license to make of your life what you may, to live the American dream to its fullest. Yes the dream of unemployment.
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Aug 30, 2010 20:04
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Kase Im Licht posted:Took the test last week! I wish I'd become a cop in the first place instead of going to law school. Not that I'm super into the idea of being a cop, but with 6 years of LE experience at this point I'd probably be a lot more competitive for the FBI or DSS or hell probably even a lot of non-LE positions. And I'd be making more money. And I'd have less debt. And I'd have some sort of retirement plan. And I'd meet scumbags less often.
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Aug 30, 2010 20:17
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^^^^^^^ There was a story of a former DA becoming a cop for exactly that reason, to get a job with the FBI. If i wasn't such a fat sack of crap, I'd seriously consider the LEO thing as well. SWATJester posted:Yes the dream of unemployment.
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Aug 30, 2010 20:57
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BigHead posted:Rural Alaskan clerkship status update: You had me at rural alaskan clerkship. I've got some phone interviews coming up so let me send you PM.
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Aug 30, 2010 22:27
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Phil Moscowitz posted:I'm going to open a law school. I'm starting to think that's the only way to market a JD. The only way to pay off the loans is to cash in on the education bubble until it bursts. It's T4s all the way down.
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Aug 30, 2010 23:59
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I find it very ironic when I check this thread and there is a legalzoom banner atop it.
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Aug 31, 2010 00:06
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Solomon Grundy posted:I find it very ironic when I check this thread and there is a legalzoom banner atop it. Eh? Why's that? Those folks trouble?
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Aug 31, 2010 00:07
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Save me jeebus posted:I'm starting to think that's the only way to market a JD. The only way to pay off the loans is to cash in on the education bubble until it bursts. Hey everybody, you should go to law school. Got a 140 LSAT? 2.0 GPA? Can you get $50k/yr in loans? Do I have a school for you! We're almost accredited too.
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Aug 31, 2010 00:08
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CaptainScraps posted:Eh? Why's that? Those folks trouble? They're taking our jerbs!
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Aug 31, 2010 00:08
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CaptainScraps posted:Eh? Why's that? Those folks trouble? Takin' away shitlaw jobs.
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Aug 31, 2010 00:09
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I just got offered a pretty nice promotion where I work (and have worked since entering law school)... this coupled with a commission as a JAG in the Army Reserve might add up to just over half a starting first year associate's salary! I AM BIMODAL Still, it's good news and I am happy to have it. They're gonna be bummed when I leave for nearly 4 months for JAG school in February. Hahahaha!
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Aug 31, 2010 00:10
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Defleshed posted:I just got offered a pretty nice promotion where I work (and have worked since entering law school)... this coupled with a commission as a JAG in the Army Reserve might add up to just over half a starting first year associate's salary!
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Aug 31, 2010 00:11
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nm posted:Quit and help me found a law school.  I work for the ABA
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Aug 31, 2010 00:14
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For all of you wishing you had been LEOs: I was an LEO in a small town for 5 years after I got out of the military. I thought the pay sucked, the night-shift work sucked, and that I was wasting my talent and intelligence every single night. I left the department in July 2008 and started law school that fall. Over two years later, I have an offer from a small firm. The big firm I clerked with 1L summer didn't give any offers for the office I clerked in. The only two offers given in a different city were family members of a huge client and senior partner, respectively. The stated reason I didn't get an offer making 6 figures? The economy. In 2008, this would have been a "guarantee." The small firm offer, if I work the hours I saw other associates working this past summer, will pay less per hour than my LEO job paid 2 years ago. It will take me approximately 10 years to recoup my $160,000 investment ($60k school loan, 100k lost LEO pay). The benefits are also significantly worse. Take the civil service exam, get in shape to meet whatever physical requirements are necessary, and go do that. I never thought that fighting drunks at 3 a.m. would be a smarter career choice than a terminal degree. But it is. God, it is.
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Aug 31, 2010 00:28
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Defleshed posted:
We can name the building after you if you deliver. t4 here we come.
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Aug 31, 2010 01:46
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Can I be a professor? I promise to be sober most of the time and not yell too much
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Aug 31, 2010 02:03
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