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TyChan posted:Huh. Is the firm not doing well? It's more of "My daughter just graduated college and needed a job." I've got several large cases ($1m+) lined up to settle/go to trial in the next 6 months. My job is drafting motions and discovery for complicated legal malpractice cases. The other two clerks and the daughter work on car wreck cases. Already starting to gladhand my way other the other legal mal practitioners in town. G-Mawwwwwww fucked around with this message at 22:27 on Aug 31, 2010 |
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Aug 31, 2010 21:55
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joat mon posted:A lap dance is so much better when the stripper is paying your salary. What is the information on this book? Name, author, publisher, edition, etc. Because seriously I am going to hit every rare book store offline and on the web until I find a copy.
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Aug 31, 2010 22:39
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joat mon posted:But make sure you correctly name the job for which you are begging: Boss called her back, and left a message that she could come interview if she was sure what job it was for. She called back with a honest and humorous mea culpa and came out for an interview. Hired. There's another spot opening up in a couple months. If anyone wants more info, PM me. \/\/\/ e: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dX3ePAOUK7U#t=4m19s no, I'll never get tired of that movie or that clip. joat mon fucked around with this message at 23:05 on Aug 31, 2010 |
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Aug 31, 2010 22:42
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^^^^ what state? SWATJester posted:What is the information on this book? Name, author, publisher, edition, etc. Because seriously I am going to hit every rare book store offline and on the web until I find a copy. edit: Son of a bitch, there is now a 1927 copy for sale. Canceled 1995 order, now have a 1927 1st edition, woo! There should be a 1995 copy in stock now. nm fucked around with this message at 22:57 on Aug 31, 2010 |
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Aug 31, 2010 22:52
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SWATJester posted:What is the information on this book? Name, author, publisher, edition, etc. Because seriously I am going to hit every rare book store offline and on the web until I find a copy.  nm found several copies on amazon. There's actually some decent material in it, but the sexism and witness-typing is a special bonus. The lack of outward classism and assumption of meritocratic selection was one of the things that stuck me as unusual for the period. e: Looking further on Amazon, the 1927 editions are available criminally cheap: http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B00085HV7M/ref=dp_olp_used?ie=UTF8&condition=used joat mon fucked around with this message at 23:01 on Aug 31, 2010 |
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Aug 31, 2010 22:53
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Purchased. My bookshelf is going to be so loving happy, it's going right next to "As a Gentleman Would Say".
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Aug 31, 2010 22:59
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Buying it for my husband. It can go right next to "The Complete Herbalist" by Dr. O Phelps Brown.
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Sep 1, 2010 00:18
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Purchased that loving awesome book.
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Sep 1, 2010 03:23
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Ainsley McTree posted:Interesting...interesting. I'll look into this, thanks. "I work for the Treasury." If she doesn't understand what it means, go ahead and sleep with her and never call. If she does understand, she's smart enough to figure out that you're actually a lawyer and will dump you 3 weeks later anyway. Best to move on.
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Sep 1, 2010 04:52
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I'm rejoining the ranks of the employed. Got an in-house gig evaluating patent portfolios and developing IP strategies for a manufacturing company. Now I get to spend the time between today and my start date drunk off my rear end, in my underwear, playing Xbox. Unfortunately, I'll have to actually show up to work after that.
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Sep 1, 2010 06:26
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OptimistPrime posted:Unfortunately, I'll have to actually show up to work after that. Laptop + Civ 5. Problem solved. e: congrats, too.
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Sep 1, 2010 13:04
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Choice time. I'm a soon to be lawyer in France, passed the bar last year and I have to choose between two law firms for my final internship (6 months). Traditionally, after the final 6 months internship if you've worked hard and they like you, you get a job offer and you can become lawyer. (you can only really become a lawyer if you have "prêté serment" (sweared in), and you need a job for that. I have been doing a lot of interviews, and two firms offered me for the final internship. The legal market being what it is (even if its not as bad in France as in the US), I don't know which to choose. Both are really good firms, well known and respected in tax law. They pay approximately the same for a 1st year associate (around 40k euros/year)and the same for the final internship (2k/mo). However they are really different. http://www.legal500.com/c/france/tax 1/ CMS bureau francis lefebvre. The only French law firm that has succeeded in the tax law field. It is generally considered as the n°1 tax law firm in Paris, and it is the biggest (about 300 lawyers). People there are known for being very good technicians, seeking life balance, and not working too much (9am- 8pm). The interview there was incredible and I loved them. They were really interested in my personality, my life beside work, insisted about how they seek people who will fit in their teams rather than workaholics. 2/ The second one Arsene Taxand, is a young, very aggressive and ambitious law firm. It was created in 2004 by ex Andersen partners, and is now the n°2 in Paris. They went from 10 to 70 people in 6 years, they told me that they offered their 4 interns last year, and that they will probably do the same next year (that's me !) The interview sucked rear end, I was asked a lot of technical questions, they didnt give a drat about me or my life or even tried to seem remotely nice. They basically told me that they expect 120% dedication from their intern. I know one of the interns who got offered this year and he tells me that he generally works until 11pm regularly. I've done a first internship this year at Ernst & Young and it sucked. The people were hollow shells, extremely bitter, tired all the time, kept talking about how their life sucked, work sucked etc. And I fear that if I accept n°2 firm, it will be exactly the same. I know that I will have a far better time at firm n°1. I really don't know what to do. Any advice, anybody ?
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Sep 1, 2010 14:19
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Macnigore posted:Choice time. Is there a reason you're considering firm #2 that you didn't tell us?
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Sep 1, 2010 14:25
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I need a job ! While I know for sure that n°2 is pretty much throwing jobs to interns because the firm is growing so much, I don't have any info about n°1, which a much more "mature" firm, and hence might not offer interns as much. Macnigore fucked around with this message at 14:33 on Sep 1, 2010 |
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Sep 1, 2010 14:30
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Macnigore posted:
Sounds like you need to get some hiring info about firm #1. If they're much older and much larger, this shouldn't be hard to find. But yeah, unless you're withholding something huge, this doesn't really seem like a very difficult choice.
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Sep 1, 2010 14:33
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Porte No. 1, espece de noob
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Sep 1, 2010 15:12
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OptimistPrime posted:I'm rejoining the ranks of the employed. Got an in-house gig evaluating patent portfolios and developing IP strategies for a manufacturing company. I had my patent lit lateral interview yesterday. I think it went well.
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Sep 1, 2010 15:13
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Macnigore posted:1/ CMS bureau francis lefebvre. The only French law firm that has succeeded in the tax law field. It is generally considered as the n°1 tax law firm in Paris, and it is the biggest (about 300 lawyers). People there are known for being very good technicians, seeking life balance, and not working too much (9am- 8pm). The interview there was incredible and I loved them. They were really interested in my personality, my life beside work, insisted about how they seek people who will fit in their teams rather than workaholics. Uh...I'm lost; what's actually in favor of the #2? The fact that they're expanding suspiciously/potentially dangerously quickly? I mean, quick Pro/Con: CMS bureau francis lefebvre: Pros: Top firm in field; life balance; not workaholics; ***PEOPLE YOU LIKE***; Cons: ??? Arsene Taxand: Pros: Increased sevenfold in six years (Calling this a pro, I find fast growth like that suspicious though); intimations of definite job Cons: Not top firm; workaholics; hollow shells; alcoholism (may be a pro depending on you); partners will build a successful firm on the withered husk that is the body of you and your cohorts before turning you away (Guessing on that last part, what I know about French law firms could be written...well, in this post)
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Sep 1, 2010 15:16
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Macnigore posted:Choice time. How long was school? Does a certain year of grades matter more than others or do the firms that actually offer this final internship-to-hiring track look at cumulative GPA? Did law school feel like a pressure cooker? I suppose I could look this up through Wikipedia on my own, but I'd like to hear this from an actual French avocat.
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Sep 1, 2010 15:17
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Phil Moscowitz posted:Purchased that loving awesome book. Me too. Snagged one of the first editions. Hope they have tips for cross-examining The Adultress.
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Sep 1, 2010 16:30
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OptimistPrime posted:Now I get to spend the time between today and my start date drunk off my rear end,   CHAPTER XXIX. THE UNFORTUNATE TYPES OF WITNESSES 284. The drug addict.- The witness who is the victim of a drug habit frequently is found to be well educated, refined and with a good reputation, able to conceal his habit and his condition. ... The person addicted to the use of drugs, by his appearance shows a lack of veracity, makes strange statements, will make contradictions after an extended examination, stating something entirely different from that which he has previously stated. He seems to lose track of his connected thoughts. His thoughts, and especially his memory, are very faulty, in that he will forget what he has said a few days before, or even a longer time previous to his examination. He will change his statements many times until one loses patience with him. ... A positive, egoistic manner is displayed immediately after the use of a drug, and before its effect wears off. Therefore, on direct examination he should be hurried through his testimony, examined only on important facts that cannot be obtained elsewhere, turned over to the opponent as quickly as possible, that he will have the strength and nerve to withstand the cross-examination. ... As his [cross] examination proceeds, the bravado and decline of his vitality is very noticeable. Consider him more as a shrewd insane person, unreliable and untruthful. What has been said of the drug user is applicable to the inebriate, with the addition that the inebriate is more inclined to be careless about his answer and is not suspicious while the drug user is. Phil Moscowitz posted:Purchased that loving awesome book.  CHAPTER XVII. THE BOLD TYPES OF WITNESSES 218. The eager.- The eager witness is in an excited state of desire to attain his object, which is to tell a strong story. He pursues his object, ardently, vehemently and impetuously...His weak traits are, excitement, rash statements, impetuosity, enthusiasm, impatience, partisanship, agitation, anticipation of questions and rapid talk. ... Unless the one producing the witness objects and interferes during the cross examination it will not be difficult to belittle the testimony of the eager witness. Macnigore posted:Choice time. What is #1's dark secret? What is making your choice so difficult? [no access to the scanner at this time] CHAPTER XVIII. THE CAUTIOUS TYPES OF WITNESSES 225. The cautious.- The careful witness is the type here described. The truthful, honest, and over-cautious type, as distinguished from the lying person... Look for the cause of his trait. He may be guarded in his answers for fear the answer will be used later to his detriment. He may be fearful the cross-examiner will make sport of him and hold him up to ridicule if he is careless in his answers. He may be cautious from his natural prudent habit; he may be discreet for fear of offending by his answers. ... The type who fears to be positive in his statements can be stirred through rough treatment, and made to realize that he must not straddle and must be careful in his answers while on the witness stand (See Evasive types of witnesses) After each question he immediately registers doubt that he may not have answered as he should. An examiner by patience may overcome the timidity and nervousness of this type, and gain his confidence. [this almost sounds like something from the i ching] joat mon fucked around with this message at 16:50 on Sep 1, 2010 |
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Sep 1, 2010 16:48
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Macnigore posted:Choice time. You're not supposed to talk about work-life balance in interviews, which is why I think no one talks about it in law school, but it is, by far, the most important thing. Also, working for ex-andersen accountants turned lawyers? This sounds like an evil joke.
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Sep 1, 2010 17:13
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Mookie posted:Me too. Snagged one of the first editions. I did not order textbooks for the semester, but I did order this. Also, there's only one left on Amazon now.
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Sep 1, 2010 17:18
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Mookie posted:Me too. Snagged one of the first editions. How'd you figure out which ones were first editions, I just gave up and ordered the 32 dollar one.
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Sep 1, 2010 17:34
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joat mon posted:I changed from a firm like n°2 to a firm like n°1. It cost me a 1/3 reduction in pay. It was worth every centime. Thanks for the advice. I really don't want to be jobless and dont want to end up with a pleasant internship and no job. Daico posted:Uh...I'm lost; what's actually in favor of the #2? The fact that they're expanding suspiciously/potentially dangerously quickly? The fast growth is not that suspicious. The funding partners were already partners at Arthur Andersen before its burst, and many of them were star practitioners in France at that time. The firm is successful because they hire only the top of the top, at associate levels as well as partners. Actually they could have grown much more from what I've heard. A pro at Arsene would be that if they hire me there are tremendous career opportunities there, while careers are much more slower at CMS bureau francis lefebvre. TyChan posted:How long was school? Does a certain year of grades matter more than others or do the firms that actually offer this final internship-to-hiring track look at cumulative GPA? Did law school feel like a pressure cooker? Law studies in France are very different than in the US. There is a "law university", which offers much broader career opportunities than lawschools in the US. Law university starts right after high school and lasts 5 years. There is no entry test whatsoever, anybody can attend, and its publicly funded, so the school fees are 250 Euros/year max. The first 4 years are generally pretty broad. There are two classical paths Public law (Constitutional law, administrative law, environment, public contracts, etc) and private law (contracts, business law etc). But by 5th year you are expected to pick at least one specialization field (tax law, contracts, property law, PI, anything really). Because there is no entry test, the selection takes place during the 5 years. The dropout rate is huge the first 2 years. (25-35% pass rate after 1st year finals, then 25-35% again after 2nd year finals. My 1st year at law university (fac de droit) we were more than 800, we were 150 at the beginning of 3rd year. 3rd year is pretty casual. By then you are familiar with law university mechanisms, and anybody in 3rd year will usually manage to get at least a 10/20 average necessary to go to 4th year. What happens during 3rd and 4th year is subtle. You are not brutally weeded out through pass/fail finals (you usually manage to get at least passing grades), but you have to prepare for the 5th year selection. In order to study your specialty during 5th year you have to get in a "Master 2". Its a one year program with 10 to 40 students. Every law university has loads of Master 2 programs, and every 4th year student will find a Master 2. However the best ones are extremely competitive. A decent cumulative GPA is appreciated, but average grades during the first two years will not automatically be held against you. Work experience is also appreciated (unpaid internships during summer breaks), as well as an overall cursus coherence (you better have studied tax law if you want to get in a Tax law Master 2). What matters most is your grades during 3rd and (more importantly) 4th year. My master 2 was in the top 3 in tax law. There were around 500 applicants, and they picked 40. There is a lot of pressure during the whole process, and even if you managed to get a good Master 2 you're not done. After your master 2 you can then choose your career: - Judge exam (you need a Master 2 to take it) ==> pass rate is 5% due to numerus clausus - Lawyer exam (you need a 4th year at law univ to take it)==> pass rate is 20-30% - Notary exam, I dont know the pass rate but its pretty low due to a numerus clausus - Repo exam : numerus clausus as well - Tax auditor exam: numerus clausus - You can start working in a company as a "juriste", and handle anything law related (business contracts, statutes, tax problems, work contracts and conflicts etc). However, working in a company's legal department is much less stressful than in law firms ==> therefore you have to compete against experienced lawyers who are fed up of working so much, or have been laid off. The legal departments of french companies are filled with ex-lawyers - A law university background is always appreciated even for non law related jobs. My mother's first job after law university was to sell houses, my girlfriend now works in film production. Lawyer exam is pretty harsh even though there is no numerus clausus (you need a 10/20 average to pass). The first part is a series of written exams in september, followed by oral exams in november if you have passed the written exams. You know if you've passed in december. The pass rate is 15-30% depending on where you take it in France. But in paris it's usually pretty low. If you pass you then have to attend Lawyer school for 1 and a half year - 6 months of practical courses (how to set up a practice, how to file motions, a LOT of practical advices and a LOT of procedure). During that time you can choose to work in a law firm half time if you want. So its either 3 months of full time courses followed by 3 months of full time internship or six months half time of both. Thats when I worked at Ernst & Young. - 6 months of WHATEVERYOUWANTASLONGASITSNOTALAWFIRM. People usually take that time to work in French companies legal departments, in non profit organization, or they travel abroad for a LLM, etc. You can do whatever really. I am currently interning in the tax law department of a huge french telecom company, and it rocks, I love it. - 6 months "final internship" in a law firm ==> Its the most important part, since its the traditional way to land your first lawyer job. If you gently caress up and are not offered, it will be frowned upon when you look for a job afterwards. There is no "OCI" like in the US, you pretty much spam any law firm in sight and hope that they will call you for an interview. Law firms being the elitist pricks that they are, look at your grades during law university, which master 2 you attended, and love to ask you obscure technical questions and watch you suffocate as you babble incorrect answers. A lot of my friends at lawyer school struggle to secure final internships because they have had average grades and didnt manage to get a top Master 2 in their specialization field. Everybody usually finds a final internship, however a lot of people are disappointed and have to accept internships in lovely law firms. - The final lawyer school exam is a joke (99% pass, if you get in, you get out) but you have to study a little bit so law firms usually give you 3 or 4 months after the end of your internship before you start working so you can get done with lawyer school exams and take much needed and deserved vacation. Congrats you're a french lawyer ! You can now gladly slave for a law firm, get paid an hourly rate slightly above minimum wage and start sucking dicks to get clients. Macnigore fucked around with this message at 18:11 on Sep 1, 2010 |
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Sep 1, 2010 18:03
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1L just started. Highlight quote thus far: "None of you have the energy or the perseverance to fail."
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Sep 1, 2010 18:16
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gently caress that sounds brutal.
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Sep 1, 2010 18:17
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The Warszawa posted:1L just started. Highlight quote thus far: "None of you have the energy or the perseverance to fail."
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Sep 1, 2010 18:23
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The Warszawa posted:1L just started. Highlight quote thus far: "None of you have the energy or the perseverance to fail." That's probably true. It might be hard to do well in law school, but law schools really don't get anything out of failing their students so it takes a rather singular determination to not do any of the work or display any of the necessary competence to pass. You might get a bunch of Ds (like a couple of friends of mine did) but you're not going to fail. The annoying thing is that just passing law school doesn't really help you out much when you're looking for a good job.
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Sep 1, 2010 18:44
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TyChan posted:law schools really don't get anything out of failing their students Bad law schools are pretty notorious for taking students money for 2.5 years and failing the bottom 30% to keep bar stats up.
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Sep 1, 2010 19:15
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The Warszawa posted:1L just started. Highlight quote thus far: "None of you have the energy or the perseverance to fail." an honest tttoilet school
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Sep 1, 2010 19:23
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TyChan posted:That's probably true. It might be hard to do well in law school, but law schools really don't get anything out of failing their students so it takes a rather singular determination to not do any of the work or display any of the necessary competence to pass. You might get a bunch of Ds (like a couple of friends of mine did) but you're not going to fail. Is that not failing in the states? terrorist ambulance fucked around with this message at 05:49 on Nov 25, 2012 |
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Sep 1, 2010 19:27
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terrorist ambulance posted:Is that not failing in the states? At my school here (Canada) if your average was below C+ or C you can't get your degree. Also if you got an F in any of your courses An F is a failing grade in the US. D- or above is a pass. Generally, there is no GPA requirement, you merely need enough credits to graduate, but any class you got an F in you don't get credit in.
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Sep 1, 2010 19:29
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The Warszawa posted:1L just started. Highlight quote thus far: "None of you have the energy or the perseverance to fail." Say hi to Julian for me. He'll be the one loudly declaiming about 4chan and griefers. He's good people. Petey fucked around with this message at 19:39 on Sep 1, 2010 |
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Sep 1, 2010 19:37
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FINALLY got a callback, V20 firm. Lets keep this ball rolling, we were doing relly good in this thread with jobs a few weeks ago.
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Sep 1, 2010 19:41
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Haven't grasped the application behind the concept of "thinking like a lawyer" by the end of week 1 of 1L. Am apparently not that special snowflake that my mom told me I was. Failed to live up to "don't drink except on weekends" twice already. Pamphlet explaining rampant alcohol abuse handed out at beginning of classes was funny(ironic?). Professor started today's class with "The good majority of you aren't going to be able to get a firm job. I hope you know what kind of lawyer you want to be." ABL was used as citation. Class' optimism plummeted like a brick. This thread had steeled me against such things as "realistic outcasts" of employment opportunities. International environmental human rights lawyer, in the making. For what it's worth, I do enjoy pie.
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Sep 1, 2010 21:27
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Green Crayons posted:Haven't grasped the application behind the concept of "thinking like a lawyer" by the end of week 1 of 1L. Am apparently not that special snowflake that my mom told me I was. The only thing worse than the "thinking like a lawyer" meme is the idea that it will just "click" sometime during your first year. Hang in there though..... you'll get to a point where you can ignore most of the BS and can treat it like undergrad.
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Sep 1, 2010 21:30
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Green Crayons posted:Haven't grasped the application behind the concept of "thinking like a lawyer" by the end of week 1 of 1L. Am apparently not that special snowflake that my mom told me I was. Where are you going again? Also, you will get 'thinking like a lawyer' and 'clicking' soon. It's mainly the realization that school is a waste of time. Everything of value will be learned during the summer.
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Sep 1, 2010 21:43
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JudicialRestraints posted:Also, you will get 'thinking like a lawyer' and 'clicking' soon. It's mainly the realization that school is a waste of time. Everything of value will be learned during the summer. Yep. Realize that the whole socratic method of learning is loving bullshit past the first semester, that you'll know how to read a case by the end of your first year, and that the entire third year of schooling is completely and utterly unnecessary.
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Sep 1, 2010 21:50
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CaptainScraps posted:Yep. Realize that the whole socratic method of learning is loving bullshit past the first semester, that you'll know how to read a case by the end of your first year, and that the entire third year of schooling is completely and utterly unnecessary. Jesus I wish they had separate classes for 3Ls that cut the bullshit...my professors in both Evidence and Decedents & Estates persist with this "let's take a slow pass through the ENTIRE case" poo poo and its just painful. Decedents is 95% 3Ls too, let's be honest its not a class you jump to when you get to pick classes for the first time. I don't know what's worse, the fact that the professor still solicits public-policy debate or the fact that there are still 3Ls with a gunner mentality that actually engage in it.
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Sep 1, 2010 22:02
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