Lawyer & Law School Megathread #12: Started Out Barrister, Ended Up Barista

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Ask/Tell > Business, Finance, and Careers > Lawyer & Law School Megathread #12: Started Out Barrister, Ended Up Barista

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Defenestration: Aug 10, 2006; "It wasn't my fault that my first unconscious thought turned out to be-"
"Jesus, kid, what?"
"That something smelled delicious!"; Grimey Drawer

MoFauxHawk posted:

Don't think Medicaid covers a burn that bad, sorry...

But Massachusetts has free homosexual healthcare for everyone!

# ? Sep 6, 2010 03:58

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# ? May 15, 2024 09:56

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Lykourgos posted:

I hear you need prior experience, though.

I think I forgive you for trolling the prison thread based on this.

# ? Sep 6, 2010 04:07

Mookie: Mar 22, 2005; I have to return some videotapes.

nm posted:

I think I forgive you for trolling the prison thread based on this.

Agreed. That's a sweet burn.

Speaking of sweet burns, I'm alone in my office working my way through a handle of Johnnie Black.

# ? Sep 6, 2010 04:10

remote control carnivore: May 7, 2009

the life of an employed lawyer

# ? Sep 6, 2010 04:30

Torpor: Oct 20, 2008; .. and now for my next trick, I'll pretend to be a political commentator...

HONK HONK

GamingHyena posted:

Moreover, stop consenting to searches when you know you have drugs in the car. What did you think was going to happen after you said yes? I have yet to hear of a cop say "well, I had a hunch you had contraband in the car but since you gave me permission to search you obviously must be an upstanding individual who is only high on civic responsibility."

This, for me, seems to be like 90% of prosecution work. I have no idea why people just wont shut the gently caress up, but there you go; people loving up and inviting massive criminal justice consequences.

Seriously, if you encounter a law enforcement officer, shut the gently caress up.

# ? Sep 6, 2010 04:58

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Torpor posted:

This, for me, seems to be like 90% of prosecution work. I have no idea why people just wont shut the gently caress up, but there you go; people loving up and inviting massive criminal justice consequences.

Seriously, if you encounter a law enforcement officer, shut the gently caress up.

Admittedly, unless you live in MN, NJ, or RI, the police don't exactly make it clear that you have a choice:
Any drugs?
Any weapons?
Anything illegal?
So you don't mind if I search the car then?

We know you can say no. Dumbass drug addict thinks if he says no he's admitting he has drugs in there.

Still, it is amazing to me that people who've been busted before fall for this poo poo.

# ? Sep 6, 2010 05:32

Incredulous Red: Mar 25, 2008

Mookie posted:

Agreed. That's a sweet burn.

Speaking of sweet burns, I'm alone in my office working my way through a handle of Johnnie Black.

poo poo son, I thought your labors would have had you promoted to Blue Label by now

# ? Sep 6, 2010 06:01

Mookie: Mar 22, 2005; I have to return some videotapes.

Incredulous Red posted:

poo poo son, I thought your labors would have had you promoted to Blue Label by now

That's at home.

# ? Sep 6, 2010 06:17

JudicialRestraints: Oct 26, 2007; Are you a LAWYER? Because I'll have you know I got GOOD GRADES in LAW SCHOOL last semester. Don't even try to argue THE LAW with me.

Hey guys it's ok, even if you can't get a lawjob you can use that opportunity and your new J.D. to pursue the job of your dreams!

The Southern Texas College of Law, a prestigious ABA accredited school in the 4th Tier of the US News and World Report Rankings (GPA Range 2.98-3.53, LSAT Range 150-156) helpfully released this guide to getting your dream job:

http://www.stcl.edu/career/handouts/What%20Can%20I%20Do%20With%20A%20Law%20Degree.pdf

Southern Texas College of Law posted:

METHOD 1: Follow your lifelong dream. The most direct method of finding an alternative career is to follow through with whatever has interested or obsessed you since the seventh grade. If you came to law school to "do something, but not law," assess your skill set, which now contains legal analysis and problem solving. Combining new skills and old passions with the contacts that you have developed and will develop because you are interested in a particular issue, will help you give concrete shape to your goals. You will then be able to create a plan to achieve those goals.

METHOD 2: Find your dream. Identify your interests, define your skills, and target prospective employers by understanding their problems and how you can contribute to the solutions. As you sat through law school or worked for some years, do you find yourself particularly interested in one topic? Bring an open mind to discussions of interesting though slightly harebrained schemes, and trust your instincts. Especially for a political science major who never considered anything but law school since the seventh grade, identifying an alternate career -- which may be as mildly offbeat as non-trial work -- is difficult but achievable. Lawyers leave traditional practice all the time.

Issues to explore:
Alternative for whom? Much of what is "non-traditional" for lawyers may be a very
traditional career path for someone with specialized training. For example, a Director of Human Resources position may �require� an MBA with a concentration in Personnel. Your four years of employment law could be an appropriate substitute. What are your interests? If you are interested in sports, and want to represent
quarterbacks, unless you are a former pro player or related to one, it may be time to expand your vision of the business of sports. Brainstorm your way through a football game and a football player�s career, considering every bit of instruction, gear, infrastructure, coaching, equipment, insurance, media, sports paraphernalia, licensing by teams and players, licensing by municipalities and more. Note that there are lawyers with clients every step of the way from junior high leagues to the NFL, and that both the helmets and the hot dogs at the sporting events have multiple layers of representation.

What are your skills? If you have managed a litigation caseload or an undergraduate residence hall, you could be a candidate for jobs calling for balancing the competing interests of clients, patients, customers, and suppliers who want immediate attention unless substantive training in something like nuclear physics is required.

Who are prospective employers? After defining your interests and skill sets, identify employers with relevant problems is a junior-high level research project. At this stage, you identify the employer's needs to determine whether they mesh with your desires. You will find yourself reviewing the business press, and the literature of your target industries. How do you �know� if a new career is right for you? The next step is to talk to someone in your target industry � or better yet, someone who has your �dream job.� You will be surprised at the number of people who will talk to you when you call or write beginning with �I admire the work that you do and want to get into your field. May I have 15 minutes of your time?� In these conversations you employ all of your old �Information Interview� techniques, asking about the actual day-to-day work, the relationships between and among colleagues and other constituents, the joys of the job, the stresses of the work and absolutely anything else that you want or need to know. This step is crucial, especially for lawyers making a career change. You know what you don�t like about the job/career you have. This is your chance to make sure that you�re not about to replace one uncomfortable work environment for another.

How do you approach those employers? Make a marketing plan and keep in mind that
you are the product. Identify the employers who are your targets, figure out ways to meet people in those industries. Read their journals. Join their professional associations. Go to their meetings. Know what you have to offer, and be systematic and persistent in your approach. At the same time, listen to the people you meet, one or more whom may present some harebrained scheme, for a business or a project that might be �right up your alley." Pay attention. One of them might be the next Steve Jobs or Steven Spielberg. When something comes along that sounds good, trust your instincts (but do some due diligence on the project, too.)

Should I rewrite my resume? A typical legal resume summarizes your experience in
language that other lawyers understand. You will need to revise your resume to describe your skills and experiences in words that make sense to non-lawyers. Instead of �Handled 30 arraignments a day� you might describe your work in more detail using �managed,� �presented,� �organized� and �summarized.�

Will they hate me because I�m a lawyer? �Hate� is, perhaps, too strong a word for the resistance that you may encounter. Some people have had dreadful experiences with lawtrained people who were less than cooperative or who were perhaps not the best of team players. Be prepared in your meetings and interviews to explain (repeatedly) that your complex skill set includes more than �just law,� and reiterate the fact that you are a team player.

METHOD 3: Serendipity. Be at the right place at the right time for the "dream job" to be handed to you. While this works often enough to be a reportable job source, relying on it is like doing lifetime financial planning with lottery tickets.

Summary: Invest in hare-brained schemes hoping for a large payout, sell hot dogs at football games, or wait for serendipity. Make sure to de-emphasize your law degree because it will be a liability, and in fact gives you the same level of management experience as an RA or Floor Monitor in a dorm.

Go forth fellow students, broad new vistas await!

# ? Sep 6, 2010 19:50

in absentia: Mar 20, 2006

I am pretty sure that attending law school is itself a harebrained scheme.

# ? Sep 6, 2010 20:01

Thoras Hammer: Oct 15, 2009

Method 1: You never actually wanted to be a lawyer, did you?

# ? Sep 6, 2010 20:31

7StoryFall: Nov 16, 2003

New dream job: hot dog lawyer.

# ? Sep 6, 2010 20:34

Leif.: Mar 27, 2005; Son of the Defender
Formerly Diplomaticus/SWATJester

Managing litigation caseload = being an RA.

# ? Sep 6, 2010 22:09

Vander: Aug 16, 2004; I am my own hero.

I'm writing my first ever closing argument for a trial skills class. (I represent the plaintiff in a car to motorcycle collision case. My guy was the cycler and is suing for negligence.)

Any tips?

# ? Sep 6, 2010 22:16

Incredulous Red: Mar 25, 2008

Vander posted:

I'm writing my first ever closing argument for a trial skills class. (I represent the plaintiff in a car to motorcycle collision case. My guy was the cycler and is suing for negligence.)

Any tips?

Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, I'm just a caveman. I fell on some ice and later got thawed out by some of your scientists. Your world frightens and confuses me! Sometimes the honking horns of your traffic make me want to get out of my BMW.. and run off into the hills, or wherever.. Sometimes when I get a message on my fax machine, I wonder: "Did little demons get inside and type it?" I don't know! My primitive mind can't grasp these concepts. But there is one thing I do know - when a man like my client ~~slips and falls on a sidewalk in front of a public library~~ gets hit by a negligently operated car while riding his motorcycle, then he is entitled to no less than two million in compensatory damages~~, and two million in punitive damages~~. Thank you.

Incredulous Red fucked around with this message at 22:34 on Sep 6, 2010

# ? Sep 6, 2010 22:32

G-Mawwwwwww: Jan 31, 2003; My LPth are Hot Garbage; Biscuit Hider

Hahahahahahaha.

Out of the 7 lawyers I've sued in legal malpractice cases, all 7 have come from South Texas College of Law. I'm going to donate to them if this keeps up.

# ? Sep 6, 2010 22:39

Vander: Aug 16, 2004; I am my own hero.

Incredulous Red posted:

...then he is entitled to no less than two million in compensatory damages~~, and two million in punitive damages~~. Thank you.

Just about. This kid's the former star quarterback of the highschool football team. This accident gives him seizures so he can't play ball anymore. He's suing car driver's employer for lost earning capacity: College scholarships AND NFL career.

# ? Sep 6, 2010 23:19

Leif.: Mar 27, 2005; Son of the Defender
Formerly Diplomaticus/SWATJester

Vander posted:

I'm writing my first ever closing argument for a trial skills class. (I represent the plaintiff in a car to motorcycle collision case. My guy was the cycler and is suing for negligence.)

Any tips?

"Ladies and gentleman of the jury, we can't make Defendant's medical recovery any less painful. We aren't miracle workers. But we can compensate him for the pain and suffering that he went through. Imagine you had to wake up every day in pain. Imagine that you were unable to work for <insert lost wages time here>. What price tag would you put on that? What would you want if you were in their situation? $500,000 can't bring my client back to health. But it can compensate him for the wrongs that have been done."

Stuff like that.

# ? Sep 6, 2010 23:25

Mookie: Mar 22, 2005; I have to return some videotapes.

Vander posted:

I'm writing my first ever closing argument for a trial skills class. (I represent the plaintiff in a car to motorcycle collision case. My guy was the cycler and is suing for negligence.)

Any tips?

Ladies and Gentlemen of the jury, do you recall filling out those questionnaires during voir dire?

Remember how they asked you for where you lived? Good.

Please find for my client, because it'd be a shame if you ever had to be sitting in the plaintiff's chair because someone broke into your house at night and savagely beat you.

Thank you, I know you'll do the right thing.

# ? Sep 6, 2010 23:30

Vander: Aug 16, 2004; I am my own hero.

SWATJester posted:

"Ladies and gentleman of the jury, we can't make Defendant's medical recovery any less painful. We aren't miracle workers. But we can compensate him for the pain and suffering that he went through. Imagine you had to wake up every day in pain. Imagine that you were unable to work for <insert lost wages time here>. What price tag would you put on that? What would you want if you were in their situation? $500,000 can't bring my client back to health. But it can compensate him for the wrongs that have been done."

Stuff like that.

I like this and I like you.

# ? Sep 6, 2010 23:33

Tetrix: Aug 24, 2002

Vander posted:

Just about. This kid's the former star quarterback of the highschool football team. This accident gives him seizures so he can't play ball anymore. He's suing car driver's employer for lost earning capacity: College scholarships AND NFL career.

drat that sucks. I hope he is fairly compensated for all the hot chicks that would've wanted in his pants for the next several years.

# ? Sep 6, 2010 23:40

Mookie: Mar 22, 2005; I have to return some videotapes.

Tetrix posted:

drat that sucks. I hope he is fairly compensated for all the hot chicks that would've wanted in his pants for the next several years.

With those seizures, he's like a living vibrator :shlick:

# ? Sep 6, 2010 23:47

Mr. Fictitious: Jul 9, 2002; by Ozmaugh

Dunno if this was ever posted in here, but this dude is literally a Goon Lawyer (though I don't think he posted in these threads):

http://www.concordmonitor.com/article/police-investigating-lawyer

# ? Sep 6, 2010 23:55

sigmachiev: Dec 31, 2007; Fighting blood excels

Vander posted:

I'm writing my first ever closing argument for a trial skills class. (I represent the plaintiff in a car to motorcycle collision case. My guy was the cycler and is suing for negligence.)

Any tips?

You're honor, ladies and gentlemen of the uh... audience... look I don�t think it�s fair to call my clients frauds. Sure, the blackout was a big problem for everybody. I was trapped in an elevator for two hours and I had to make the whole time. But I don�t blame them. Because one time, I turned into a dog and they helped me. Thank you.

# ? Sep 7, 2010 00:35

Leif.: Mar 27, 2005; Son of the Defender
Formerly Diplomaticus/SWATJester

Vander posted:

I like this and I like you.

My dad was the senior partner of a decent size boutique firm and did a lot of workers comp and PI trials. He gave me that little gem when I was in a mock trial competition my 1L year. It dominated.

# ? Sep 7, 2010 00:37

evilweasel: Aug 24, 2002

Mr. Fictitious posted:

Dunno if this was ever posted in here, but this dude is literally a Goon Lawyer (though I don't think he posted in these threads):

http://www.concordmonitor.com/article/police-investigating-lawyer

Looks like he's not anymore:
http://www.concordmonitor.com/article/214888/nh-banking-department-blamed-for-firms-closure

# ? Sep 7, 2010 00:46

Chakron: Mar 11, 2009

evilweasel posted:

Looks like he's not anymore:
http://www.concordmonitor.com/article/214888/nh-banking-department-blamed-for-firms-closure

https://www.nhlaw.com/

Chakron fucked around with this message at 00:55 on Sep 7, 2010

# ? Sep 7, 2010 00:50

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Mr. Fictitious posted:

Dunno if this was ever posted in here, but this dude is literally a Goon Lawyer (though I don't think he posted in these threads):

http://www.concordmonitor.com/article/police-investigating-lawyer

Talk to the hand!

# ? Sep 7, 2010 00:56

Roger_Mudd: Jul 18, 2003; Buglord

evilweasel posted:

Looks like he's not anymore:
http://www.concordmonitor.com/article/214888/nh-banking-department-blamed-for-firms-closure

Sweet Jesus, what is happening to bearded man?

# ? Sep 7, 2010 01:14

Lemonus: Apr 25, 2005; Return dignity to the art of loafing.

Hey talking about special snowflake panda law students,

I recently produced a piece of legal research which helped the New Zealand Deaf association with a review of New Zealands Sign Language Act (NZSL is an official language here~). Was all about the use of Sign Language in tribunal proceedings and in evidence and such.

I received a thank you and love sign from a friend who can sign NZSL as well as a thank you email/reference from the president of the association~

I feel all warm and fuzzy inside. Now to finish my degree and destroy people

# ? Sep 7, 2010 01:37

joat mon: Oct 15, 2009; I am the master of my lamp;
I am the captain of my tub.

SWATJester posted:

"Ladies and gentleman of the jury, we can't make Defendant's medical recovery any less painful. We aren't miracle workers. But we can compensate him for the pain and suffering that he went through. Imagine you had to wake up every day in pain. Imagine that you were unable to work for <insert lost wages time here>. What price tag would you put on that? What would you want if you were in their situation? $500,000 can't bring my client back to health. But it can compensate him for the wrongs that have been done."

Stuff like that.

Nice.

You could also let the jury do the calculating (they like to have stuff to figure out for themselves) "Denise Defendant can still drive; Johnny can't drive because he has seizures. How much is it worth to you to have the independence to drive yourself from place to place? $5 a trip? 10? 20? How much would it be worth to you to not worry about having a seizure when you're a high school kid on a date? Or out with your wife? $20? $50? How much is it worth to you to be able to carry your sleeping daughter in from the car without worrying about having a seizure? $50? $100? That is Johnny's day, every day. How much is it worth to you to avoid just one hour of Johnny's life? Mr. Actuarial said Johnny might another 60 years. 60 years of hours of the same dependence, the same embarrassment, the same fears for yourself and for your loved ones. Every hour of every day. You do the math."

Or:
ladies and gentlemen of the jury, this here watermelon is little Johnny�s head that Denise Defendant ran over. This here big 'ol hammer is Denise's big 'ol SUV. This big 'ol roll of plastic sheeting is a verdict for Johnny in the amount of $500,000. Now who wants some plastic sheeting?

caveat: if the first one was used in a criminal trial, it'd be objectionable because it tries to put the jurors in the victim's place. I dunno if that applies in civil cases or not, but if it does, you can still use it by comparing it to an undamaged johnny - how much would he pay to...

joat mon fucked around with this message at 01:57 on Sep 7, 2010

# ? Sep 7, 2010 01:51

Leif.: Mar 27, 2005; Son of the Defender
Formerly Diplomaticus/SWATJester

joat mon posted:

Nice.

You could also let the jury do the calculating (they like to have stuff to figure out for themselves) "Denise Defendant can still drive; Johnny can't drive because he has seizures. How much is it worth to you to have the independence to drive yourself from place to place? $5 a trip? 10? 20? How much would it be worth to you to not worry about having a seizure when you're a high school kid on a date? Or out with your wife? $20? $50? How much is it worth to you to be able to carry your sleeping daughter in from the car without worrying about having a seizure? $50? $100? That is Johnny's day, every day. How much is it worth to you to avoid just one hour of Johnny's life? Mr. Actuarial said Johnny might another 60 years. 60 years of hours of the same dependence, the same embarrassment, the same fears for yourself and for your loved ones. Every hour of every day. You do the math."

Or:
ladies and gentlemen of the jury, this here watermelon is little Johnny�s head that Denise Defendant ran over. This here big 'ol hammer is Denise's big 'ol SUV. This big 'ol roll of plastic sheeting is a verdict for Johnny in the amount of $500,000. Now who wants some plastic sheeting?

caveat: if the first one was used in a criminal trial, it'd be objectionable because it tries to put the jurors in the victim's place. I dunno if that applies in civil cases or not, but if it does, you can still use it by comparing it to an undamaged johnny - how much would he pay to...

Exactly that. You want them to be able to do the math and come up with the same number you're asking for. But then if you're able to get an abstract value for pain and suffering, or if you're eligible for punitive damages, that's when you can really go to town on their heartstrings.

# ? Sep 7, 2010 02:15

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Goddammit.
I have been informed that a train conductor makes about $68k/yr (this is before they get bumped to train driver which pays quite a bit more).
Requirement? Over 18. HS degree/GED. Pass a drug test. They pay you $800/mo for required schooling. Get an actual pension type thing.

Why the gently caress did I go to law school? I wanna drive trains.

# ? Sep 7, 2010 03:05

prussian advisor: Jan 15, 2007; The day you see a camera come into our courtroom, its going to roll over my dead body.

nm posted:

Goddammit.
I have been informed that a train conductor makes about $68k/yr (this is before they get bumped to train driver which pays quite a bit more).
Requirement? Over 18. HS degree/GED. Pass a drug test. They pay you $800/mo for required schooling. Get an actual pension type thing.

Why the gently caress did I go to law school? I wanna drive trains.

So what's stopping you? poo poo, do it for AMTRAK and get your loans forgiven.

# ? Sep 7, 2010 03:18

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

prussian advisor posted:

So what's stopping you? poo poo, do it for AMTRAK and get your loans forgiven.

Interview:
Why do you want to do this when you could be making millions being a lawyer?
. . . .
We'll call you.

Goddammit. Still might do it. Also FSO test.

Currently working 40hrs a week for no money because my county has no money to pay me, and this looks better on the resume than: "sat on couch, watched COPS, yelled at TV, ate cheetos." And yes, I'm admitted in 2 states and have trial experience.
(Only good news, 2010s, I'm gonna kick your asses at application time. Bad news, laid off PD/DAs from earlier years are kicking may rear end)

Wooowoooo! (That's a loving train horn)

nm fucked around with this message at 03:29 on Sep 7, 2010

# ? Sep 7, 2010 03:24

CmdrSmirnoff: Oct 27, 2005; happy happy happy happy happy happy happy happy happy

nm posted:

Goddammit.
I have been informed that a train conductor makes about $68k/yr (this is before they get bumped to train driver which pays quite a bit more).
Requirement? Over 18. HS degree/GED. Pass a drug test. They pay you $800/mo for required schooling. Get an actual pension type thing.

Why the gently caress did I go to law school? I wanna drive trains.

No poo poo, this exact career alternative came up a few threads ago.

Trains own.

# ? Sep 7, 2010 03:33

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

CmdrSmirnoff posted:

No poo poo, this exact career alternative came up a few threads ago.

Trains own.

One of my friend's from law school's roommate was a train driver (maybe conductor, i dunno), was like 25-30 and always seemed flush with cash. And this was at the beginning of 2L year. I coulda dropped out :smith:

He's also probably a goon, this guy was a giant nerd.

# ? Sep 7, 2010 03:41

BigHead: Jul 25, 2003; Huh?; Nap Ghost

I just found out an old High School friend of mine flies cargo 747s between Japan and Anchorage. He makes 1 one-way trip then takes four days off. It's a long-rear end trip, but still, work 2 of every 8 eights.

He gets paid "shitloads."

# ? Sep 7, 2010 07:02

Phil Moscowitz: Feb 19, 2007; If blood be the price of admiralty,
Lord God, we ha' paid in full!

SWATJester posted:

Exactly that. You want them to be able to do the math and come up with the same number you're asking for. But then if you're able to get an abstract value for pain and suffering, or if you're eligible for punitive damages, that's when you can really go to town on their heartstrings.

This is a line from a local plaintiff attorney's commericals.

"What does the couch mean to you? A relaxing nap? Watching a football game with friends, or sitting for an hour after work to unwind?

For my clients, the couch is a prison. Imagine spending the rest of your life in debilitating pain, unable to get up from the couch. My clients have to deal with that pain. They shouldn't have to worry about their finances."

# ? Sep 7, 2010 14:32

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# ? May 15, 2024 09:56

Neon Belly: Feb 12, 2008; I need something stronger.

Neon Belly fucked around with this message at 22:49 on Aug 1, 2016

# ? Sep 7, 2010 15:03

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Ask/Tell > Business, Finance, and Careers > Lawyer & Law School Megathread #12: Started Out Barrister, Ended Up Barista

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