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billion dollar bitch posted:Since it's not like I can privately prosecute you for doing something Qui tam. I wonder if under the revived old common law the courts will rethink allowing Sikhs to wear their knives.
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Sep 9, 2010 03:06
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billion dollar bitch posted:Actually, no. Trial by battle was only possible in "appeals of death," in which a family member or someone else instituted a private prosecution after the state trial failed. That was the issue in Ashford v. Thornton, in which the scrawny brother charges Thornton again - which is why it's Thornton v. Ashford, not Thornton v. Regina. Since it's not like I can privately prosecute you for doing something (and certainly not for the death penalty), it seems that this element of the common law could not have been imported into the States. It's a procedural problem more than anything else. drat. And given the punishment, the double jeopardy clause would trump as well. Curse you for ruining my fantasy!
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Sep 9, 2010 04:17
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TyChan posted:It always freaked me out that Scientology managed to litigate the IRS to a standstill. I thought it was Latham & Watkins primarily. EDIT: For many pro se litigants, I support trial by ordeal. Mookie fucked around with this message at 04:27 on Sep 9, 2010 |
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Sep 9, 2010 04:23
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Mookie posted:EDIT: For many pro se litigants, I support trial by ordeal. If they float, they're guilty
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Sep 9, 2010 04:31
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Mookie posted:I thought it was Latham & Watkins primarily. I've been trying to talk my judge into this. I also want to institute a measurement rule for motions for summary disposition -- if your brief and accompanying attachments are more than an inch thick, there's a question of material fact and your motion is denied.
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Sep 9, 2010 05:30
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Mookie posted:I thought it was Latham & Watkins primarily. Wikipedia, the source of all things indisputably true, says that the CoS has exclusive agreements with various counsel. I guess it's pretty much all in-house. I suppose a firm like Latham and Watkins could be used from time to time depending on the nature of the case.
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Sep 9, 2010 05:33
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TyChan posted:Wikipedia, the source of all things indisputably true, says that the CoS has exclusive agreements with various counsel. I guess it's pretty much all in-house. http://abovethelaw.com/2008/03/the-church-of-scientology-a-latham-watkins-client/
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Sep 9, 2010 06:02
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So I suspect that I already know the answer to this question - but am I still a dumbass for going to law school if I don't actually want to make money and really want to become a prosecutor? Criminal Law was far and away my favorite class in undergrad and it made me really want to pursue a career in the field.
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Sep 9, 2010 06:44
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federal or state?
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Sep 9, 2010 06:48
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Cook/Dupage County, specifically. Really somewhere around the Chicago area.
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Sep 9, 2010 06:56
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If anyone's interested in doing child support attorney work at the AG's office here, PM me w/ resume. Spot may open shortly. Starts at 40k, though it's likely that will be bumped to 50k next month.
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Sep 9, 2010 07:01
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Paisano posted:So I suspect that I already know the answer to this question - but am I still a dumbass for going to law school if I don't actually want to make money and really want to become a prosecutor? Criminal Law was far and away my favorite class in undergrad and it made me really want to pursue a career in the field. My husband worked for the LA County DA for free for a year and a half, helped put a serial killer on death row, and saved the police some nasty retraining. Guess how employed he is?
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Sep 9, 2010 07:04
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Paisano posted:So I suspect that I already know the answer to this question - but am I still a dumbass for going to law school if I don't actually want to make money and really want to become a prosecutor? Criminal Law was far and away my favorite class in undergrad and it made me really want to pursue a career in the field. Good retirement if you can get tenured E: are prosecutors unionized in Illinois like they are in Los Angeles?
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Sep 9, 2010 07:16
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Paisano posted:Cook/Dupage County, specifically. Really somewhere around the Chicago area. Cook County prosecutor's office is literally a hellhole. I think the NY night shift may technically be a worse place to work as a prosecutor, but dear god you need to be masochistic to even attempt to be a Chicago DA. They spend like 8 seconds per case during arraignments according to some random book I read in law school. That's not an exaggeration. Imagine trying to explain to a drunk pro se why the First Amendment doesn't apply to urinating on people while riding the bus in under 8 seconds, then do it for 14 hours per day for free, repeat for a few years (while loans are due) and you've got yourself an outside shot at being hired making $40k/yr. None of that is an exaggeration. Now Rural Alaskan prosecutor, that's a totally different story. poo poo is hella fun, yo. And they're still hiring in balmy Bethel! Edit: The book was Courtroom 502 or 501 or something. Read it and decide if you still want to be a Cook County Prosecutor. BigHead fucked around with this message at 16:35 on Sep 9, 2010 |
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Sep 9, 2010 07:31
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Are class of 2008 associates still second-year associates or third-years? Depends on the firm?
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Sep 9, 2010 13:15
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Paisano posted:So I suspect that I already know the answer to this question - but am I still a dumbass for going to law school if I don't actually want to make money and really want to become a prosecutor? Criminal Law was far and away my favorite class in undergrad and it made me really want to pursue a career in the field. Not wanting/expecting/feeling entitled to money simply because you went to law school goes a long way toward staying sane and realistic. Having a reason for going to law school other than "all the lawyers on TV have sex with beautiful people and make tons of money" helps too. Just realize that the public sector job market sucks as much as the private sector, and even if you get a job, it won't pay much. At all. Go down to the courthouse and watch some trials first. Go to a slower-paced (e.g., not Chicago area) jurisdiction and ask to talk to the DA for a while; ask if they could give you a 'day in the life' tour of the operation. Do the same for the PDs office if there is one. If you have a plan to deal with the money angle, I'll be a heretic and say go for it.
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Sep 9, 2010 14:08
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Doesn't our very own faux-British thread troll work for Cook County Prosecutor? I think so. For contribution I went to law school at Loyola, and many of my classmates also dreamed of doing prosecutor work for Cook County. One guy got the job, and he basically dedicated his life to doing that, including doing free work for them every summer. It's a tough gig to break into, just like any field of law. Don't think that just because it pays peanuts compared to biglaw that there aren't hundreds of bright and fiercely competitive people waiting to fight with you over that job. That said, most people who do it really really love it. I'm gonna take a moment here to do my monthly pitch for JAG. If you're interested in criminal law, it's a great way to get more than your fair share of experience. It's also extremely competitive but the pay is better than the starting pay at most DA's offices and sometimes you get to shoot guns as well. I'm currently doing Reserves, as I got a cushy promotion at my "real" job, but I am only a few bad days away from taking the Active Duty plunge. People blow it off because "it's the military  " but honestly being an Army Captain is not by any stretch like being a Private or a Sergeant. You deal with some bullshit once in a while, but overall it's a hell of a gig. Best kept secret in the legal profession, imo.Of course, I spent 4 years enlisted after high school so I have a high tolerance for bullshit. YMMV. Defleshed fucked around with this message at 15:04 on Sep 9, 2010 |
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Sep 9, 2010 15:01
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I want to run one of these things on law students. http://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/the-real-stuff-white-people-like/
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Sep 9, 2010 15:38
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Everything bighead said about the CCSAO is wrong and the office is a dream to work in and all learned ladies and gentlemen, whether they be students or members of the bar, ought to apply. Starting pay apparently shifts every year and they literally won't tell you a final figure until after you start work, but it's actually around 57k start, not 40k. I have no idea what job bighead is describing because it has nothing to do with this office as far as I can tell.Paisano posted:So I suspect that I already know the answer to this question - but am I still a dumbass for going to law school if I don't actually want to make money and really want to become a prosecutor? Criminal Law was far and away my favorite class in undergrad and it made me really want to pursue a career in the field. No, this is a mature and respectable decision that you should follow through on. Know that competition for the job is still very tough; there were thousands of applicants to the chicago office this year, but only roughly 15 hires, and only three of that lot have actually started work. Working in the office is also nothing like what bighead described. Also, job feels secure, pay is good, health insurance is roughly 10 dollars a month total coverage for you and your immediate family and the pension is god like especially if you're here for long enough. billion dollar bitch posted:Actually, no. Trial by battle was only possible in "appeals of death," in which a family member or someone else instituted a private prosecution after the state trial failed. That was the issue in Ashford v. Thornton, in which the scrawny brother charges Thornton again - which is why it's Thornton v. Ashford, not Thornton v. Regina. Since it's not like I can privately prosecute you for doing something (and certainly not for the death penalty), it seems that this element of the common law could not have been imported into the States. It's a procedural problem more than anything else. Again, not true; wager of battle was allowed in other situations than appeals of death. I don't know about other states, but Illinois specifically implements the state of English common law and statutes as they were in 1606, unless repealed by the legislature itself. So crack open your statutes of the realm or whatnot and see what you can find. My supervisor wasn't too keen on combat so I haven't brought it up in a fair while, but you could certainly request wager of battle in England on other grounds than appeal by murder before 1606. Lykourgos fucked around with this message at 16:13 on Sep 9, 2010 |
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Sep 9, 2010 15:50
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Paisano posted:So I suspect that I already know the answer to this question - but am I still a dumbass for going to law school if I don't actually want to make money and really want to become a prosecutor? Criminal Law was far and away my favorite class in undergrad and it made me really want to pursue a career in the field. Most state and local govts are hurting right now. Meanwhile, for some reason the assholes from civil law want to try their hand at crim law because firm jobs have dried up. Market is super-saturated. Pay can be from extremely low (NYC is like $50k/yr which is low for them, MO PD is in the mid-$30ks.) to the reasonably well paid (SF DA/PD starts at like $95k, Sac DA/PD is $82k and the can step up quite nicely). It isn't really any harder to get into a well paying office than a poorly paying office for whatever reason. With crim law, the hours and benefits are generally better but remember you have the choice between representing people who probably did it or being a political tool in the tough on crime movement, loving even good people over because your boss demands it.
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Sep 9, 2010 15:56
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fougera posted:Are class of 2008 associates still second-year associates or third-years? Depends on the firm? Yes and no. The firm very likely has told its clients that you are now a third year, and will be billed to them as such. You yourself, however, are going to still be paid as a second year throughout the remainder of 2010. Call yourself a second year until January.
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Sep 9, 2010 15:58
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Defleshed posted:I'm gonna take a moment here to do my monthly pitch for JAG. Seconding this, especially if you're single. Plus, if you sign up for JAG before you start or while you're in law school, you don't have to worry about job hunting - so long as you pass the bar in two tries, you're employed.
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Sep 9, 2010 16:08
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fougera posted:Are class of 2008 associates still second-year associates or third-years? Depends on the firm? Mookie posted:Yes and no.
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Sep 9, 2010 16:08
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Defleshed posted:JAG Stuff What are you required to do as a reservist? I've been thinking about looking into it.
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Sep 9, 2010 16:20
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Thanks for the replies. I'm a little surprised I didn't get a chorus of boos, so I'm actually pretty encouraged right now. I didn't expect it would be easy to get a job in prosecution, but I'm a little surprised at how difficult it is. I guess I thought that most people really wouldn't have any interest because of the pay. Still - if I'm going to give up on a dream because it is difficult to attain it isn't much of a dream anyway. Also, re: JAG - If I didn't have a medical condition that prevented me from serving in the military I most likely would have gone to OCS after college.
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Sep 9, 2010 16:40
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Also one of the great things about JAG is the medical and travel benefits. Space A? Hells yes. Also you should consider the preference that prior military service gives you when applying to future federal positions, like at the DoJ or the NRC.
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Sep 9, 2010 16:51
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I read that. The Church of Scientology must be a wonderful client. They constantly sue people, have limitless coffers, and probably are open to dropping a case once they've harassed someone enough, especially since they tend to go after low-lying fruit.
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Sep 9, 2010 17:14
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TyChan posted:I read that. Weren't they classified as vexatious litigants at one point in time?
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Sep 9, 2010 18:10
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stingray1381 posted:What are you required to do as a reservist? I've been thinking about looking into it. I can only speak as to the Army, but mainly you attach to the nearest Legal Services office, which will have a detachment within a reasonable drive for you. You do your drill weekends there, usually assisting Active Duty JAG's with paperwork and other such. On your two weeks you'll usually go to a nearby base and help do trial prep, or perhaps assist soldiers with legal questions through the Legal Assistance office. Occasionally you'll do stuff more "guns & ammo" related than legal related, but in all the Army wants to get its use out of your extreme amount of schooling and specialization. You'll have to do JAOBC which amounts to a total of about 4 months combined of in processing, Army Law School (near the UVa campus), and an accelerated Leadership/Officer course. After that it is your weekend a month, two weeks a year. Applying is competitive and basically is the same as applying for active duty, AD has about a 3-5% selection rate currently (although that will go up as applicant numbers dwindle when the economy improves), but I think Reserve selection is higher.
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Sep 9, 2010 18:55
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Incredulous Red posted:Weren't they classified as vexatious litigants at one point in time? I'm sure it has happened more than once. You're talking about an organization that, at one point, had more than 2000 lawsuits filed against the IRS as part of a greater effort to get the IRS to reinstate the CoS' tax-exempt status. I can't imagine how happy various attorneys were to have a piece of a client who spends up to $30,000,000 on legal fees every year.
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Sep 9, 2010 19:25
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Shitlaw kind of owns.
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Sep 9, 2010 22:26
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TyChan posted:I can't imagine how happy various attorneys were to have a piece of a client who spends up to $30,000,000 on legal fees every year. It's like biglaw, only with thetans!
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Sep 10, 2010 02:03
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Mookie posted:It's like biglaw, only with thetans! Law school makes thetans
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Sep 10, 2010 02:46
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Incredulous Red posted:Qui tam. I wonder if under the revived old common law the courts will rethink allowing Sikhs to wear their knives. It would make patent prosecutions more exciting. "Who among you Solo Cup employees shall defend your company's honor to the death against the villainous accusations of producing goods with expired patent numbers?"
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Sep 10, 2010 02:57
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Paisano posted:Thanks for the replies. I'm a little surprised I didn't get a chorus of boos, so I'm actually pretty encouraged right now. I didn't expect it would be easy to get a job in prosecution, but I'm a little surprised at how difficult it is. I guess I thought that most people really wouldn't have any interest because of the pay. Still - if I'm going to give up on a dream because it is difficult to attain it isn't much of a dream anyway. I don't know if you keep up on the thread, but just in case: you honestly cannot trust Lykourgos. And I know a number of people who've applied to the Cook County State's Attorney's Office, and a few who've gotten hired. There's no rhyme or reason at all to who got hired and who didn't: experience at that office, grades, experience in other prosecutors' offices, nothing seems to correlate with getting hired there based on this tiny sample. So keep that in mind - it's as much of a crapshoot as anything else.
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Sep 10, 2010 03:19
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Woot - I just found out that one of my friends has an interview tomorrow at the Patent Office. She has a bachelor's in electrical engineering and a JD, so hopefully it'll work out.
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Sep 10, 2010 04:28
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Friend of mine just randomly got a call from the Social Security Administrative Appeal, uh, "Court" and was offered a job clerking. She was very conflicted because she hates Admin Law, but I told her to be loving ecstatic because it's a federal job and she gets a security clearance. Does she have a chance at lateraling into anything, or should she continue ruing her terrible luck at getting the one job she will undoubtedly hate?
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Sep 10, 2010 06:50
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TyChan posted:Wikipedia, the source of all things indisputably true, says that the CoS has exclusive agreements with various counsel. I guess it's pretty much all in-house. I found an old Scientology legal threat letter and it turns out that they used a firm called "Johnson, Pope, Bokor, Ruppel, and Burns" as their Florida counsel in 2008.
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Sep 10, 2010 06:52
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Konstantin posted:I found an old Scientology legal threat letter and it turns out that they used a firm called "Johnson, Pope, Bokor, Ruppel, and Burns" as their Florida counsel in 2008. as in local counsel or what? I would like to be local counsel in E.D. Texas etc etc
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Sep 10, 2010 07:16
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Mr Gentleman posted:as in local counsel or what? I would like to be local counsel in E.D. Texas etc etc All I know is that Scientology got the license plate off of someone attending the 'Anonymous' protests and they got sent a letter saying, in effect "Someone at this household may be affiliated with the terrorist group known as 'Anonymous' and we're letting you know" on that firm's letterhead. A large branch of Scientology is located in Clearwater, FL, so they may just use them for that reason.
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Sep 10, 2010 07:32
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