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I r Pat posted:Is there any reason that most producers/DJ's (that I've seen) use a macbook compared to a PC for ableton? Almost all DJ's I've seen use Mac's and I'm assuming they use the same to create. I use a Mac pretty much solely because of my Apogee Duet. The thing is pretty amazing. And I'm kind of a Unix nerd so that portion helps too.
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Sep 20, 2010 02:01
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I r Pat posted:Is there any reason that most producers/DJ's (that I've seen) use a macbook compared to a PC for ableton? Almost all DJ's I've seen use Mac's and I'm assuming they use the same to create. Part of it is that for almost as long as there have been Macs they been perceived as the platform of choice for creative professionals. And there is good basis for this belief beyond the fact that many people flocked to the platform simply because it was "different." Consider that Pro Tools, Avid Media Composer and Photoshop were all either conceived on or had most of their important early versions done on Macs. Apple has been marketing their machines to creative professionals for a long time and the community has certainly responded to that. Let's think about Mac OS X though. To make a long story short, Steve Jobs left Apple in the early 90's to form another computer company called NeXT. The NeXT machines were expensive and didn't do great in the mainstream market but, again, they caught on with a lot of multimedia folks, especially people working with audio because they had very powerful DSP capabilities for the time. Mac OS X is largely based on the NeXT operating system that Jobs brought back with him to Apple, and so inherited its multimedia-friendly architecture. So, yes, Mac OS X is stable and is known to play nice with a very wide range of audio gear out of the box without having to gently caress around with drivers and poo poo. Whether Macs are intrinsically "better" for media work than PCs is kind of another can of worms but there you go, that's my take on why people who make music like Macs. Oh yeah and some people just buy Macs because they're cool. 
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Sep 20, 2010 02:12
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Rivensbitch posted:Use groups and launch those instead? That doesn't quite accomplish what I'd like it to, and group clip displays have always kind of annoyed me. I'm trying to squeeze maximum efficiency out of the APC's default mappings, to make use of all the nifty banks and such. So I'm avoiding things that will cause me to scroll with the mouse or have to open/close groups. So far the workaround I mentioned holds up - keep the dummy FX clips (on tracks audio is passing through) way down the session view; use 'bank select' to get down there. I love problem-solving with Live's MIDI mapping and device rack features (e: I'm not sure why I added that; all of the problem-solving was pretty much done beforehand when I thought out the dummy racks).
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Sep 20, 2010 02:45
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I r Pat posted:Is there any reason that most producers/DJ's (that I've seen) use a macbook compared to a PC for ableton? Almost all DJ's I've seen use Mac's and I'm assuming they use the same to create. just generally less fuss with how audio related stuff works with the system, latency etc.. also they're finely made and look all pretty like.
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Sep 20, 2010 10:51
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Thanks for the replies everyone, I'm in the market for a new computer soon and I'm exploring all my options. I do photoshop work and I'm starting to get into producing music with Ableton, so a Mac may be in my future!
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Sep 20, 2010 15:37
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The sad truth is that it is cheaper and easier to support Mac platforms because the hardware is standardized and there are fewer models to test. So while many companies claim to be cross platform, there are a lot of asterisks in the fine print that ammount to performance not being guaranteed as 1:1. Having grown up on pcs and having built all of my computers from the motherboard up since I was 12, and even having used macs in college and at studios, I was never really converted to the Mac side until after a few years of failing to get useable results from pc laptops, and then getting a MacBook pro. The MacBook smokes my pc experience in terms of stability, compatability, and extremely low latency while performing a lot of complex tasks with soft synths, prerecorded, and live audio - all three at once, and no dropouts. In live performance settings this is crucial. Most of the performing live musicians I know who depend on live to work on stage agree with me. I have met a few diehard pc users, most work in the studio and do not perform live. That isn't to say there aren't exceptions and I'm sure some pc seeps work great. At the same time I could find you several posts on this forum from pc people troubleshooting random hardware problems and incompatabilities with certain interfaces, and not having any luck. I've never seen a post from a Mac user who was having to check their DPC spikes or having to modify the FireWire driver or try asio4all because the manufacturers driver was lovely. The only equivalent problems I've seen on the Mac side are waiting on new drivers from the manufacturer to support new versions of osx.
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Sep 20, 2010 16:31
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I r Pat posted:Thanks for the replies everyone, I'm in the market for a new computer soon and I'm exploring all my options. I do photoshop work and I'm starting to get into producing music with Ableton, so a Mac may be in my future! I used to be a stupid PC purist, building my own PC's from scratch (i didn't solder mobo's but I put my own poo poo together), 'can't upgrade a mac' I'd say. Well little did I know that you rarely need to. I started in film school, and got a Mac (Powermac G5 Tower) after using Final Cut Pro on my friend's mac, and then I got into graphic design and noticed how much better my Adobe Suite was running on my mac. Ended up getting a Macbook Pro for/from work(dropped out of film cause I got a job) so I could create at home too. Everything just runs smoother and I can't really remember if I've ever had a crash, or driver issues, or any issues. I still had my PC though, and loaded up ableton onto it, and used it for a while, got discouraged, didn't come back to audio until I got Logic for my Mac. Loved it, decided to get Ableton for my mac, and aside from creative droughts, its been full speed from there. Mac's are just simpler, work better, and i guess look cooler. Of course this is all anecdotal, but you're gonna get a hell of a lot more people agreeing than disagreeing. Sorry if this dragged, but I think a Mac is a very smart investment.
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Sep 20, 2010 16:55
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I r Pat posted:Thanks for the replies everyone, I'm in the market for a new computer soon and I'm exploring all my options. I do photoshop work and I'm starting to get into producing music with Ableton, so a Mac may be in my future! My anecdotal experience is much the same. I produce on a PC at home, simply because my studio partner is also on a PC and we need to share VSTs so that our projects open. I use my MacBook Pro for mobile production and performance though, it's been way more stable than any PC I've ever used.
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Sep 20, 2010 17:51
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I've been really tempted to go OS X on my next computer purchase. I spent a 5-week tour with a borrowed Macbook, and while I really dislike the Cult of Mac, it was a nice experience.
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Sep 20, 2010 18:34
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Ill chime in here too: used to be a "pc"(haha like the windozes commercial, right?) then i started using macs in the library. then i thought, man these computers are leaps and bounds nicer than pcs, both in build quality and use. so i bought a macbook, after my friends used it, i would guess AT LEAST half a dozen bought one with a couple of months, maybe more than that even. got stolen, bought another macbook. used for for ~2 years as a DJ playing out about 3 times a week(when im busy i have off months like exams or holidays), about 200-250 shows. i think one crash, and it was due to a bad usb cable for my external HD. just bought a macbook pro. and its the poo poo. thats all i gotta say. go try a MBP and it will blow away just about any PC. i have the 13" so it was "only" 1100, compared to the 2g for the 15", which is a little pricey for my blood. i mean gently caress, macs run windows better than a pc does!
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Sep 20, 2010 18:40
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I've gone back the other way now. Liked pc's, then got into macs, then about 2 years ago got myself a windows laptop that was half the price of a mac with the same specs and in 2 years has not had a single issue with anything i've thrown at it. It's the most stable laptop i've ever used, and just as snappy now as it was back then. I've not seen a single thing on them that makes them unique these days. the supposed performance difference you can get round by getting a faster proccessor in the windows one and still come out well over 1/3 cheaper. edit: jesus christ oderun how the hell do you use a 13" to make music? Even my 17" annoys me sometimes. cubicle gangster fucked around with this message at 19:37 on Sep 20, 2010 |
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Sep 20, 2010 19:34
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cubicle gangster posted:I've gone back the other way now. Liked pc's, then got into macs, then about 2 years ago got myself a windows laptop that was half the price of a mac with the same specs and in 2 years has not had a single issue with anything i've thrown at it. Here's the problem though. Your success story is tied to the specific PC you bought, and is not an indicator as to how well any other PC laptop may or may not work. And even if the Sony laptop you bought last year worked, the current model sony may have a completely different firewire or usb driver that plays hell with the audio interface you are using. If a Sony Vaio FGN-1073 doesn't work with a specific m-audio interface, there might only be a few dozen M-audio customers who buy that laptop. They can complain until they're blue in the face, but M-audio knows that if it's a complex fix, the costs of solving this issue will outweigh the lost business from these few dozen clients. If the new line of macbooks don't work with a particular M-Audio interface, M-Audio now has hundreds or probably thousands of customers who will raise hell. It is much cheaper for M-audio to maintain compatibility across the entire line of macbooks, especially considering that it's only 3 new models and if there's a change that breaks compatibility, it's probably a change affecting all 3 of the new models and therefore a single fix will work for all of them. This is the core problem with the platform debate and music production. The entire industry is incredibly small, so as far as the Apple, Sony, Toshiba, and microsoft concerned, compatibility falls on the shoulders of the people making audio interfaces and software. These companies are small and have very limited resources, so while support for all apple models is virtually guaranteed due to the small number of machines to test, when it comes to PC support they have to make decisions on which combinations of hardware and manufacturer they will test and truly support in actions and not just in words. Every problem I've ever had with a PC and music software/hardware, the tech support technician has always eventually pointed the finger at something else and thrown up their hands saying my system is probably incompatible. To put it another way, at every trade show I've been to from NAMM to AES, the overwhelming majority of manufacturers are demonstrating their products on macs. Off the top of my head, at the last NAMM convention the following manufacturers did not have a single PC in their booth: Digidesign/M-audio, Access, Ableton, Novation, Steinberg, Native Instruments, TC Electronic, Edirol/Roland, Emu, Tascam, Focusrite, RME, Yamaha. If there was truly a 1:1 parity between performance on either platform, wouldn't these companies save themselves the cost and go with PCs? RivensBitch fucked around with this message at 21:31 on Sep 20, 2010 |
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Sep 20, 2010 21:27
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It's a good point, and something i've never had to experience with hardware. Some luck with dell's and the price saving means i'm happy to take the risk - plus i've stripped down to only ableton, NI & line 6 gear. I imagine for someone like you theres a good chance you'll hit an issue whereas my setup is nowhere near as complicated. I did actually see a perfect example of your point when I first got it actually. It came with vista 64bit - soon after I got a xone 3d, which cost me just over a grand. That was 2 years ago, and i'm still not sure if they have 64bit vista drivers yet... Their email response was 'install the 32bit version, there are literally 2 of you'. cubicle gangster fucked around with this message at 23:06 on Sep 20, 2010 |
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Sep 20, 2010 23:04
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Great explanation rivens, exactly the thoughts i had came to myself just by pondering logically about the situation..
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Sep 21, 2010 00:32
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Nindoze posted:exactly the thoughts i had came to myself just by pondering logically about the situation.. Get a loving grip. Mac posts dont get much smugger than this.
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Sep 21, 2010 01:21
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Macs dominate the industry and continue to and probably will for a long time and Apple continues to work very hard to propogate the myth and protect what real advantages they have in order to keep those that make products within the music industry reeinforce this very idea by gearing things towards the Mac OS platform in a process ruled by completely circular logic if you ask me. This is one of the reasons I really don't like Apple. That said, if the price differential for a Mac machine from a similar speculations PC machine was at least a little (well a lot I think...) smaller, then I would be way down, I think Mac computers and OS X are super great, fantastic even. I'm even applying to work there  . Don't hate.
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Sep 21, 2010 02:10
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Generally I've been able to figure drat near everything out on my own but this I truly can't figure out. All I want to do it set up a channel in ableton that grabs whatever is being played elsewhere in my computer. Basically the same poo poo that Windows XP could do in its sleep with the 'Stereo Mix' thingie. Problem is that I have a bizarro audio interface that was late to the windows 7 game anyways so no support from them so I'm left to workarounds, and I really have no ideas left  Anyone?
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Sep 21, 2010 05:09
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Thanks for all of your replies everyone, you convinced me to go Mac for my next computer choice. I am also in the market for a controller that will play my samples live and will allow me to create beats and lines. I have heard good things about the Akai APC20 and APC40, and the big difference to me is that the APC40 doesn't have "note mode" which will allow me to create a beat by using the pads. Then the APC40 has the advantage of having more live control with the extra levers and knobs on the right side. So I'm torn on which one to buy.. anyone have any experience with either of these, or something completely different that I may be missing?
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Sep 21, 2010 05:38
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mezzir, for a year I have delved and researched far more time and found no way to do this. ASIO4All seemed like it would allow me to combine cards into one virtual card sorta for Ableton to interact with but alas this has never actually worked in practice, maybe there's a reason but I've unfortunately given up on doing this altogether and just suck it up and pull out audacity and export the wav and bring it into Ableton (far from ideal for me personally but I know not what else to do, not sure there is a way on Windows at least, fairly sure Core Audio on Mac will allow this sort of thing though).
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Sep 21, 2010 05:47
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cubicle gangster posted:Get a loving grip. heh, wasn't trying to be, just makes a lot of sense is all. I r pat i would go for the 40 if you're gunna get an apc, the knobs are very useful for roving around ableton with ease. Also note mode can be modded in easily with a midi remote script file. If you're after a controller for live stuff maybe take a look at the launchpad and others too.. i find the apcs drawback for a live situation is its size - but its hard to beat for ableton production work.
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Sep 21, 2010 06:36
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Counterlogic posted:mezzir, for a year I have delved and researched far more time and found no way to do this. ASIO4All seemed like it would allow me to combine cards into one virtual card sorta for Ableton to interact with but alas this has never actually worked in practice, maybe there's a reason but I've unfortunately given up on doing this altogether and just suck it up and pull out audacity and export the wav and bring it into Ableton (far from ideal for me personally but I know not what else to do, not sure there is a way on Windows at least, fairly sure Core Audio on Mac will allow this sort of thing though). Bah yeah I can do it easy if its not in real time. Hah the thing I wanted to do earlier that prompted this was fooling aroudn with audio from itunes trying to get sample ideas, so I had my two keyboards set up, one with drums (Kick snare hat, and another kick drum that the itunes audio would be sidechained against) and then several effects to use live, to basically just gently caress around with audio that way without having to click on a song, buffer, and not click anywhere while I do it :I. God damnit this has to be possible >
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Sep 21, 2010 06:42
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Counterlogic posted:Macs dominate the industry and continue to and probably will for a long time and Apple continues to work very hard to propogate the myth and protect what real advantages they have in order to keep those that make products within the music industry reeinforce this very idea by gearing things towards the Mac OS platform in a process ruled by completely circular logic if you ask me. This is one of the reasons I really don't like Apple. Apple owns logic, I've met the logic team and I think they are a big part of the reason osx does audio so much better than windows. They eat lunch with the guys who handle coreaudio, so there's actual communication between the people making music and the people handling the audio portion of the OS. Microsoft is a big company with a lot of customers whose only concern with audio is that youtube videos and dvds work, they could give a poo poo about the music industry. But again I would point out that the music manufacturers almost exclusively stick with the latest macs at tradeshows. Apple is not giving them any discounts, they wouldn't even give mick jagger a discount why would they give one to ableton or digi? This is not an inconsequential expense for them. I've seen manufacturer's who split their NAMM booths to save costs but were using a half dozen brand new iMacs to demonstrate their products. Even for something as simple as a standalone soft synth with a keyboard controller. It's very telling that they don't use cheaper PCs.
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Sep 21, 2010 08:50
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Ya, I hate that they own Logic too. But again, you are still right, and they do audio better. I just thing the system doesn't encourage real competition from anyone like Microsoft, but what are you going to do? Tech fields monopolize and not always for terrible reasons.
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Sep 21, 2010 15:16
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Nindoze posted:heh, wasn't trying to be, just makes a lot of sense is all. And how would I go about modding this with ease? I am a complete beginner when it comes to MIDI/Ableton, but I tend to learn really quickly. And the size isn't an issue, I'm going to produce music first in the comfort of my own home and then I'll worry about transporting things.
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Sep 21, 2010 16:27
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Counterlogic posted:Ya, I hate that they own Logic too. But again, you are still right, and they do audio better. I just thing the system doesn't encourage real competition from anyone like Microsoft, but what are you going to do? Tech fields monopolize and not always for terrible reasons. How does it discourage real competition? Microsoft could EASILY afford to buy a company like Steinberg or even Ableton, they don't because it's such a small market that they don't care. Logic isn't even that big of a player in the game, at least not in terms of dollars sold. I'm willing to be you that Apple has made more from selling scaled down logic (garage band) as part of the iLife suite than they have ever made from selling licenses for Logic. I'm really curious, what monopoly does Apple have on music production? Just because a company has a clearly superior product doesn't mean they have a monopoly. I can see how it might be confusing, since what makes their product superior is that it's the most compatible with 3rd party products, and arguably that's probably the most important feature needed when stability and reliability are vital in a music production environment. Are you saying that Apple has a monopoly on compatibility?
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Sep 21, 2010 18:18
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I'm probably exaggerating. Again, I admit a personal bias simply against Apple in general for reasons not worth arguing on really, because its purely opinion, and that means I probably shouldn't have said anything in the first place. Regardless, back in the day when I got started producing and DJing, most Apple products were way beyond my spending level into exploring these things at the time and I would leave the real argument there (entry-level financial difficulties).
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Sep 21, 2010 20:16
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I r Pat posted:And how would I go about modding this with ease? I am a complete beginner when it comes to MIDI/Ableton, but I tend to learn really quickly. just get this file and the instructions here http://remotescripts.blogspot.com/p/support-files.html#APC40_22 although after loving around with all sorts of more complex mods and hacks i just use the default setup now, simplicity is better..
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Sep 22, 2010 05:42
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When recording with a click track, is there a way to change the time signature for a couple of bars? Automating tempo changes is simple, but I haven't found a way to change the time signature for parts of the song only.
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Sep 22, 2010 09:37
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Nindoze posted:just get this file and the instructions here Thanks a lot for this! Question though, if I wanted to say use note mode in the middle of a live set would I be able to bust it out without a hassle? I would think I'm going to be using it for mostly producing (using it as a midi keyboard for drum beats, lines, etc) but when I want to use it live I want to be able to punch it out.
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Sep 22, 2010 13:26
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Ableton update! we have an amp simulator now! (plus other stuff I dont care about)
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Sep 22, 2010 15:30
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Pleasure to chill posted:When recording with a click track, is there a way to change the time signature for a couple of bars? Automating tempo changes is simple, but I haven't found a way to change the time signature for parts of the song only. If I was a moderator, I would probate people like you in an instant
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Sep 22, 2010 16:35
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My PC rapes my MBP when I've got massive sets going, but I basically bought my MBP because of how awesome it is with my USB devices (APC40, controller). I love how poo poo can come unplugged during a show, and I can just plug it back in without having the restart ableton.
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Sep 22, 2010 18:39
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Counterlogic posted:to propogate the myth Counterlogic posted:if the price differential for a Mac machine from a similar speculations PC machine was at least a little (well a lot I think...) smaller, then I would be way down 13" macbook pro 1100, or macbook 999. are not that much more than similarly equiped competitors(this is merely a FYI and not a flame) http://www.colamco.com/store/stat/product/1000494.html?source=froogle http://www.shopping.hp.com/webapp/shopping/computer_series.do;HHOJSID=hXNXMhQbPWJzp9vbbF3XQvHSzDF0r2HyP1tyRQwRdTmZ08hH6JpJ!1249775338?storeName=computer_store&category=notebooks&series_name=ENVY13_series ^^^it seems like that one is copying the macbook but costs more at certain options! http://www.google.com/products/cata...0CDAQ8wIwBjgK#p you can find me 600$ PCS all day long, but the build quality is nothing close to the computers we are talking about here.
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Sep 23, 2010 00:29
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RivensBitch posted:How does it discourage real competition? Microsoft could EASILY afford to buy a company like Steinberg or even Ableton, they don't because it's such a small market that they don't care. Logic isn't even that big of a player in the game, at least not in terms of dollars sold. It was looking like Microsoft and Cakewalk were getting pretty cozy for a while, but I guess that fizzled out between Roland buying Cakewalk, and the everyone pretty much ignoring DirectX plugins and WDM drivers in favor of VST and ASIO.
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Sep 23, 2010 01:10
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RivensBitch posted:If I was a moderator, I would probate people like you in an instant Thanks for that, I guess. I've tried googling it, but I wasn't aware that "Insert time signature" was the correct term to use, so I've searched for "change time signature", which only gave me results explaining how to do it for the whole song. I'm so sorry for making GBS threads up this thread though.
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Sep 23, 2010 06:18
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Has anyone tried the new amp plugin? Eagerly downloading.
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Sep 23, 2010 08:37
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oredun posted:13" macbook pro 1100, or macbook 999. Here's your problem. Do another comparison with a 17" mbp, and use english prices. edit: nm, I did. mbp - 17", 8gb ram, core i7 2.6ghz. £2,419 Dell - 17", multitouch screen, 8gb ram, core i7 2.8ghz (to make up for the speed difference in software) £1,179 See the difference? Double is too much, doesnt matter how you look at it. If a £200 interface doesnt work, i'll throw it on ebay and buy another one - i've just saved £1200. At the point where it's pretty much the same hardware inside and you're spending £1200 outright on build quality and OS alone, something is hosed. Thats $1800 if you cant be bothered converting it. I'd like them more if I paid what you guys did. But we dont, we pay a fuckload more and they're not worth it. cubicle gangster fucked around with this message at 11:03 on Sep 23, 2010 |
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Sep 23, 2010 10:42
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pennywisdom posted:Has anyone tried the new amp plugin? So far, I'm meh on them. However, I don't use any "real" instruments, which is what they're primarily for. It's a nice freebie for suite owners, and I do love Abletons interfaces.
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Sep 24, 2010 04:17
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I use ableton mainly for guitar music but I already use Guitar Rig, so its just a nice extra. Plus I have a demo of amplitube 3 which for some reason forgot it was a demo and still says "30 days of evaluation left" every time I log in.
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Sep 24, 2010 11:57
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Yeah, I'm not too impressed with this from guitar players perspective. I do like some of the presets on the Rhodes presets though.
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Sep 24, 2010 17:55
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