Lawyer & Law School Megathread #12: Started Out Barrister, Ended Up Barista

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Ask/Tell > Business, Finance, and Careers > Lawyer & Law School Megathread #12: Started Out Barrister, Ended Up Barista

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Solomon Grundy: Feb 10, 2007; Born on a Monday

Lilosh posted:

My contracts professor (who is apparently a "legend in the field" and can do whatever the gently caress he wants) has a "I take attendance at the beginning and if you miss two or more classes you fail the final and the class" policy.

And it's our 9am class

By 9 a.m., I have been up for at least 4 hours, made three breakfasts and lunches, washed and dressed three kids, delivered them to school/preschool, showered and dressed, got to the office, and worked for at least an hour.

Quit whining.

# ? Sep 29, 2010 03:03

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# ? May 15, 2024 23:12

gvibes: Jan 18, 2010; Leading us to the promised land (i.e., one tournament win in five years)

Lilosh posted:

I have a question for Mookie, or anyone who actually has a lawyer job (So probably only him)

My 1L research professor is making a big thing about THE BOOOOOOKS and how bosses will want us to use THE BOOOOOOOKS for research instead of wasting time and money by using electronic sources, specifically Westlaw/Lexis. (granted, He's mentioned how ungodly expensive westlaw can be)

Do big firms care? Or is it mostly solos and small firms that would rather you pore over the digests and indexes and USCA and poo poo?

Upon your answer depends how much I pay attention to his emphatic jumping up and down about THE BOOOOOOOKS

For cases and statutes, I don't think anyone cares. My brother is a struggling solo, and even he pays for an unlimited case/statutes plan.

Some clients do not like seeing it on the bill, but I just dump it into an internal billing number then. I am not going to actually go research cases in books, and I do not know anyone who ever has.

I actually frequently use paper treatises of my own volition. I just find it easier.

# ? Sep 29, 2010 03:10

Wyatt: Jul 7, 2009; NOOOOOOOOOO.

Solomon Grundy posted:

By 9 a.m., I have been up for at least 4 hours, made three breakfasts and lunches, washed and dressed three kids, delivered them to school/preschool, showered and dressed, got to the office, and worked for at least an hour.

Quit whining.

Remember Lilosh, you are getting a professional degree. Time to play the part. Just be happy they don't make you show up at 7am in a suit.

# ? Sep 29, 2010 03:38

joat mon: Oct 15, 2009; I am the master of my lamp;
I am the captain of my tub.

Lilosh posted:

I have a question for Mookie, or anyone who actually has a lawyer job (So probably only him)

My 1L research professor is making a big thing about THE BOOOOOOKS and how bosses will want us to use THE BOOOOOOOKS for research instead of wasting time and money by using electronic sources, specifically Westlaw/Lexis. (granted, He's mentioned how ungodly expensive westlaw can be)

Do big firms care? Or is it mostly solos and small firms that would rather you pore over the digests and indexes and USCA and poo poo?

Upon your answer depends how much I pay attention to his emphatic jumping up and down about THE BOOOOOOOKS

Caveat: I am a bibliophile, so if I can justify using books, I will.

However, Westlaw/Lexis has been better than books since the mid 90s when modem speeds and interfaces/browsers made electronic research faster than using books.

I would expect that it costs more to maintain a useful paper law library than it costs to have a lexis/westlaw account. Plus the time spent checking a digest, pulling a case and then shepardizing it (or whatever they did in the old days) will cost several times the time spent on Lexis/Westlaw.

Big firms will have Lexis/Westlaw.

Depending on your state, most of the stuff you will need day-to-day is available free online anyway.

Knowing book research will earn you Rainman points that one time in your career when there's no internet connectivity for some weird reason.

Learn boolean searches.

You're in law school. You've got the time and the resources to learn both book and electronic research. What can it hurt?

Bibliophile rejoinder:

Doing electronic research will never give you a boner.

Doing book research here will:

# ? Sep 29, 2010 03:48

Green Crayons: Apr 2, 2009

Solomon Grundy posted:

By 9 a.m., I have been up for at least 4 hours, made three breakfasts and lunches, washed and dressed three kids, delivered them to school/preschool, showered and dressed, got to the office, and worked for at least an hour.

Quit whining.

Next time I see a 5 o'clock-and-change Grundy post, I can only assume some child out there isn't getting a healthy breakfast/lunch that day.

# ? Sep 29, 2010 03:52

Tetrix: Aug 24, 2002

Green Crayons posted:

Next time I see a 5 o'clock-and-change Grundy post, I can only assume some child out there isn't getting a healthy breakfast/lunch that day.

Ate these almost daily and look at me now, I'm in law school!

# ? Sep 29, 2010 04:14

HooKars: Feb 22, 2006; Comeon!

Lilosh posted:

My 1L research professor is making a big thing about THE BOOOOOOKS and how bosses will want us to use THE BOOOOOOOKS for research instead of wasting time and money by using electronic sources, specifically Westlaw/Lexis. (granted, He's mentioned how ungodly expensive westlaw can be)

It's pretty standard for your first couple of assignments to be books only. Even if you had to use the books, you can probably get the firm librarian to do most of the work for you.

It is useful to have a firm grasp of both Westlaw and Lexis even if you like one over the other though, not all firms do the unlimited billing and if they do, they don't always do it for both.

# ? Sep 29, 2010 04:21

Incredulous Red: Mar 25, 2008

Solomon Grundy posted:

By 9 a.m., I have been up for at least 4 hours, made three breakfasts and lunches, washed and dressed three kids, delivered them to school/preschool, showered and dressed, got to the office, and worked for at least an hour.

Quit whining.

What's your wife doing?

# ? Sep 29, 2010 04:39

Defenestration: Aug 10, 2006; "It wasn't my fault that my first unconscious thought turned out to be-"
"Jesus, kid, what?"
"That something smelled delicious!"; Grimey Drawer

joat mon posted:

Doing electronic research will never give you a boner.

Doing book research here will:

Got a boner just thinking about this

The internet has come through again

# ? Sep 29, 2010 04:50

G-Mawwwwwww: Jan 31, 2003; My LPth are Hot Garbage; Biscuit Hider

Wyatt posted:

Remember Lilosh, you are getting a professional degree. Time to play the part. Just be happy they don't make you show up at 7am in a suit.

Past the first year, they are making you play a ridiculous, unnecessary bullshit game that has absolutely nothing to do with the practice of law and is nothing more than a gigantic game of hide-the-ball. Get by with as little work as possible.

I'll skip class if it's raining. But if my boss wants me in on a weekend or to work late or skip class, by God I'm there and I'm there earlier than he is. It's easy to be a professional when you're treated like one.

Take that with a grain of salt as I'm bitter and bitchy.

G-Mawwwwwww fucked around with this message at 04:55 on Sep 29, 2010

# ? Sep 29, 2010 04:51

Lykourgos: Feb 17, 2010; by T. Finn

Solomon Grundy posted:

By 9 a.m., I have been up for at least 4 hours, made three breakfasts and lunches, washed and dressed three kids, delivered them to school/preschool, showered and dressed, got to the office, and worked for at least an hour.

Quit whining.

pfft, bond court starts at 7:30am scrubs

# ? Sep 29, 2010 05:26

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Lilosh posted:

I have a question for Mookie, or anyone who actually has a lawyer job (So probably only him)

My 1L research professor is making a big thing about THE BOOOOOOKS and how bosses will want us to use THE BOOOOOOOKS for research instead of wasting time and money by using electronic sources, specifically Westlaw/Lexis. (granted, He's mentioned how ungodly expensive westlaw can be)

Do big firms care? Or is it mostly solos and small firms that would rather you pore over the digests and indexes and USCA and poo poo?

Upon your answer depends how much I pay attention to his emphatic jumping up and down about THE BOOOOOOOKS

I work for a PDs office. Our library exists but no one uses it and is getting slashed.
Books work for a few things, getting code sections quick and CALCRIM, but that is about it. Unlimited lexis.

# ? Sep 29, 2010 05:47

BigHead: Jul 25, 2003; Huh?; Nap Ghost

Lilosh posted:

I have a question for Mookie, or anyone who actually has a lawyer job (So probably only him)

My 1L research professor is making a big thing about THE BOOOOOOKS and how bosses will want us to use THE BOOOOOOOKS for research instead of wasting time and money by using electronic sources, specifically Westlaw/Lexis. (granted, He's mentioned how ungodly expensive westlaw can be)

Do big firms care? Or is it mostly solos and small firms that would rather you pore over the digests and indexes and USCA and poo poo?

Upon your answer depends how much I pay attention to his emphatic jumping up and down about THE BOOOOOOOKS

For rules of crim pro / civil pro / appellate pro / admin pro etc, the Official State Books are infinitely helpful because after each rule they have a synopsis of cases dealing with that rule. That being said, I come from a small jurisdiction where all that poo poo is in one (gigantic) tomb. If you have several (dozen) tombs, YYMV. These books are real-life books by the way, not those lovely books you get in 1L. They're, like, the actual books of civ pro and crim pro.

That being said, if you 'tarded 1L professor insists on 'spergin' (god I can add an apostrophe to both ends of that word) about textbooks, then he can go gently caress himself. No real life lawyer on the planet cares about the facts of Spivey v. Bataglia (my favorite Torts case) and they will never care.

For everything other than the local rules of the court, Westlaw or Lexis is your most direct route. But, remember that if you work in private practice, you will have to pay for Westlaw/Lexis (which means you charge your clients for Westlaw/Lexis) which can get loving expensive. If you get hired by a private firm and fall into your law school free-for-all research habits, you can easily wrack up $20k in bills for Exxon / Toys'r'us / Costco / whatever.

Book research only costs as much as the books cost.

BigHead fucked around with this message at 08:20 on Sep 29, 2010

# ? Sep 29, 2010 07:51

Solomon Grundy: Feb 10, 2007; Born on a Monday

Incredulous Red posted:

What's your wife doing?

She commutes an hour into the Big City to work a Big Job. She leaves around 6 a.m. and gets home to pick up the kids around 5.

BRB - I have two more PBJs to make.

# ? Sep 29, 2010 11:10

Sulecrist: Apr 5, 2007; Better tear off this bar association logo.

Stop posted:

Duke Priority Track?

best track

Campout is this weekend and the children are freaking out about a CivPro midterm that follows hard upon. At least several people in my section summarized a good many of the federal rules of civil procedure in their outlines. Please tell me this is unnecessary.

# ? Sep 29, 2010 12:58

10-8: Oct 2, 2003; Level 14 Bureaucrat

Wasn't someone in here writing a novel or comic book or something about a district attorney who fights crime on the side? You should call your lawyer.

http://www.deadline.com/2010/09/sam-raimis-stars-road-sets-3-tv-projects/#more-70774

quote:

In its first development season since focusing on primetime TV with a first-look deal at Sony TV and the hire of CBS' Robert Zotnowski as TV head, Sam Raimi and Joshua Donen's Stars Road Entertainment has sold 3 hourlong projects to 3 networks, Fox, ABC and CBS.

* * *

The ABC project hails from Dee Johnson, with whom Zotnowski worked on The Good Wife. Last year, Johnson served as executive producer/showrunner on the first 13 episodes of the CBS legal drama. The new project centers on a top female prosecutor in Los Angeles, whom Zotnowski describes as a "female vigilante with a law license."

# ? Sep 29, 2010 13:17

Soothing Vapors: Mar 26, 2006; Associate Justice Lena "Kegels" Dunham: An uncool thought to have: 'is that guy walking in the dark behind me a rapist? Never mind, he's Asian.

Solomon Grundy posted:

And for you weenies bitching about attendance requirements, back when I went to law school my TTT had a three-absence-then-fail policy. So quit whining and get out of bed and go to class.

hey buddy the whole reason i busted my rear end studying for the LSAT was so I didn't have to go to some scuba school that takes attendance t :mad:

Lilosh posted:

Upon your answer depends how much I pay attention to his emphatic jumping up and down about THE BOOOOOOOKS

My firm is a large regional firm (about 150-200 lawyers) and use of THE BOOOOOOKS are fairly well stressed. Honestly, it's not as ridiculous as it seems - I've found that poking around in digests and treatises for 20 minutes before I start wasting hundreds of dollars on Westlaw really helps me narrow down my focus and get me headed in the right direction.

You will never ever do all your research from them, and they're probably not as important as your legal writing professor contends, but they are still useful tools. And in my very limited experience, partners really appreciate associates/summers who spend a little time in the library (and, whenever given the opportunity, they bitch about how much money most junior associates spend on Westlaw), so it is a fantastic way to subtly suck up

Soothing Vapors fucked around with this message at 13:31 on Sep 29, 2010

# ? Sep 29, 2010 13:21

J Miracle: Mar 25, 2010; It took 32 years, but I finally figured out push-ups!

Sulecrist posted:

best track

Campout is this weekend and the children are freaking out about a CivPro midterm that follows hard upon. At least several people in my section summarized a good many of the federal rules of civil procedure in their outlines. Please tell me this is unnecessary.

Is it closed book? My Civ Pro exam allowed a copy of the rules. If it's completely closed, then yeah I would be putting rules in my outline and on notecards and poo poo, I mean the class is about the FRCP why not study them?

# ? Sep 29, 2010 13:35

Adar: Jul 27, 2001

http://www.cnn.com/2010/LIVING/09/29/tf.afraid.to.date.debt/index.html?hpt=Sbin

quote:

-- Dear Wendy:

I'm a 31-year-old, single guy in Chicago. I'm at a point in my life where I'd like to find a great woman and think about settling down and perhaps start a family in the not too distant future. Unfortunately, I have a terrible secret that is making it difficult for me to get close to women: I have $190,000 in student loan debt (no, I am not a doctor).

Aside from that scary number, I am financially responsible and have a promising career with a high income trajectory ahead of me. How I arrived at that $190,000 is moot, but what isn't is the psychological handicap I've developed.

I am ashamed and embarrassed to be burdened by such student debt, and I can't help but feel most women would be scared off by it. As a result, I've basically stopped dating or even trying to meet that special someone. I can't bear the prospect of getting close to someone only to scare her off because of my debt. I feel like a leper. But, am I over-reacting? If so, what advice would you give about broaching the topic with a potential girlfriend (timing, method, etc)?
-- Debt Leper

Dear SomethingAwful Forum Goon,

# ? Sep 29, 2010 14:49

Sulecrist: Apr 5, 2007; Better tear off this bar association logo.

J Miracle posted:

Is it closed book? My Civ Pro exam allowed a copy of the rules. If it's completely closed, then yeah I would be putting rules in my outline and on notecards and poo poo, I mean the class is about the FRCP why not study them?

No commercial outlines or internet, but everything else is in. Also, it's an hour long.

# ? Sep 29, 2010 14:56

Big PErson: Sep 23, 2010; Big person

Answered

Big PErson fucked around with this message at 16:27 on Aug 14, 2014

# ? Sep 29, 2010 15:01

CmdrSmirnoff: Oct 27, 2005; happy happy happy happy happy happy happy happy happy

M R GALLETA posted:

What is the fastest you can go through Law School? I don't have a lot of time (already in my 30's) so I would want to wrap it up fast. I've been in the legal system before as a client (not as a lawyer) so I have experience. Do they give you court credit if you have been in there before?

In some states I think you can challenge the Bar exam without training or with some sort of judicial clerkship thing. Just tell them you watched a lot of Law & Order and you're really good at debating; they'll nod sagely and hand you a membership card.

# ? Sep 29, 2010 15:06

Lykourgos: Feb 17, 2010; by T. Finn

nm posted:

I work for a PDs office. Our library exists but no one uses it and is getting slashed.
Books work for a few things, getting code sections quick and CALCRIM, but that is about it. Unlimited lexis.

Similar situation here, Lilosh; I work in a prosecution office and we get unlimited lexis and there�s a library with lots of annotated copies of the code. There are other books in the library, too, but I�ll be damned if I�ve ever touched them. We get unlimited westlaw access in certain locations, but I only used it once and we aren�t issued personal westlaw accounts.

# ? Sep 29, 2010 15:15

Linguica: Jul 13, 2000; You're already dead

This blog is amazing: http://chris-armstrong-watch.blogspot.com/

A staffer in the Michigan AG office (who apparently went to Michigan undergrad and Ave Maria Law) maintains an absolutely insane blog where he slings mud at the current Michigan Student Assembly president for his "homosexual agenda". It's full of stuff like this, after the intrepid reporter found some Facebook wall posts which were obviously intended to troll him personally:

quote:

Since this site revealed a few days ago that new Michigan Student Assembly (MSA) President Chris Armstrong, a militant homosexual extremist, had the impudence to host a "gay" orgy at his U of M dorm back in October of 2009, the reaction from the University's homosexual "community" has been predictable. That is, Armstrong's fellow militants are THRILLED that he so perfectly reflects their promiscuous lifestyle.

The evidence is - or at least was - on Chris' Facebook (FB) wall. The screenshot above, which Chris Armstrong Watch obtained from one of its MANY vigilant confidential sources, is from July 6, 2010. In this screenshot, one can see that, within an hour's time, several of Armstrong's fellow extremists congratulate him on hosting the orgy.

First, lesbian student activist Mical DeGraaff wrote:

quote:
Way to host a big gay orgy, dude!

Then, apparently having seen this wall post in his FB newsfeed, U of M student Brad Bergeron "outed" himself as one of the orgy participants and, while taking the Lord's name in vain, commented on DeGraaff's post by disgustingly bragging:

quote:
Oh my god, yes! I had so much sex that night! What a fabulous night of homosexual shenanigans.

That repulsive comment was then followed by another FB wall post from one of Armstrong's fans, Patrick Benjamin Mitchell, who opined:

quote:
Apparently you host the best gay orgies. . . Ever!

It seems clear that Patrick, also a homosexual, was not invited to the orgy event, which is probably because he is also African American. As has been documented here in previous posts, Armstrong recently showed his disdain for minority students by spitting in their faces and joining Order of Angell, a secret student society with a well-known history of racism and elitism. Armstrong outright LIED during his MSA presidential campaign when he publicly stated that he would never join the offensive group.

While his fellow homosexual extremists are predictably delighted with the revelation that Armstrong hosted a "gay" orgy at his dorm, Armstrong seems to recognize that having done so may now just end-up costing him the presidency of MSA, given the natural revulsion that most sane heterosexual members of the U of M community feel about such activity.

Indeed, multiple confidential sources confirm that Armstrong removed the three aforementioned posts/comments from his FB wall within a few hours after they appeared. Hmm . . . it looks as though Armstrong was trying to desperately hide the truth. Unfortunately for Armstrong's political career, Chris did not delete them fast enough. And, enough is enough. It is time for Armstrong to RESIGN NOW!

It almost makes me think the blog itself is a big troll maybe? Like M R GALLETA?

Linguica fucked around with this message at 15:21 on Sep 29, 2010

# ? Sep 29, 2010 15:17

Soothing Vapors: Mar 26, 2006; Associate Justice Lena "Kegels" Dunham: An uncool thought to have: 'is that guy walking in the dark behind me a rapist? Never mind, he's Asian.

michigan is literally the worst state in your pitiable union

# ? Sep 29, 2010 15:41

Lykourgos: Feb 17, 2010; by T. Finn

Soothing Vapors posted:

michigan is literally the worst state in your pitiable union

Well... America has somewhere in the vicinity of 50 states, and a good number of them give michigan serious competition for that title. States like Alabama are literally international household terms for stupidity. Also, remember all those Americans who thought Russia had launched an invasion of Georgia (apparently also the name of a US state) a while back? They're probably spread throughout the union, which really puts every state on the table as a viable pick for worst.

Lykourgos fucked around with this message at 16:01 on Sep 29, 2010

# ? Sep 29, 2010 15:58

Defleshed: Nov 18, 2004; F is for... FREEDOM

Soothing Vapors posted:

michigan is literally the worst state in your pitiable union

Michigan owns, the Midwest owns, gently caress you!

gvibes posted:

If there were jobs and weren't so many jesus people there, I would totally move to Grand Rapids.

Basically the two main reasons I moved out of Grand Rapids to Chicago, despite growing up there (which makes me admittedly biased!). Still, Michigan has a lot of great things about it; mostly nature-related so I guess if you're not a big outdoorsman it would be like anywhere else but more isolated and Jesus-filled.

Defleshed fucked around with this message at 17:33 on Sep 29, 2010

# ? Sep 29, 2010 17:22

gvibes: Jan 18, 2010; Leading us to the promised land (i.e., one tournament win in five years)

If there were jobs and weren't so many jesus people there, I would totally move to Grand Rapids.

# ? Sep 29, 2010 17:30

hypocrite lecteur: Aug 21, 2008; by Y Kant Ozma Post

Got a second interview out of OCIs. Now all I gotta do is be able to hang in one place for an hour or two appearing to be a marketable and interesting hire and not alienate anyone. Oh yeah I'm a goon. :smith:

# ? Sep 29, 2010 17:34

evilweasel: Aug 24, 2002

Soothing Vapors posted:

michigan is literally the worst state in your pitiable union

texas

# ? Sep 29, 2010 17:39

Revolver: Feb 23, 2004

Soothing Vapors posted:

michigan is literally the worst state in your pitiable union

New York

# ? Sep 29, 2010 17:45

joat mon: Oct 15, 2009; I am the master of my lamp;
I am the captain of my tub.

Linguica posted:

This blog is amazing: http://chris-armstrong-watch.blogspot.com/

A staffer in the Michigan AG office (who apparently went to Michigan undergrad and Ave Maria Law) maintains an absolutely insane blog where he slings mud at the current Michigan Student Assembly president for his "homosexual agenda". It's full of stuff like this, after the intrepid reporter found some Facebook wall posts which were obviously intended to troll him personally:

It almost makes me think the blog itself is a big troll maybe? Like M R GALLETA?

If it is, he just trolled the hell out of Anderson Cooper:
http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/09/28/michigan.justice.blog/index.html?hpt=C1

also, he already has his own thread:
http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3352548

# ? Sep 29, 2010 17:48

G-Mawwwwwww: Jan 31, 2003; My LPth are Hot Garbage; Biscuit Hider

evilweasel posted:

texas

Michigan does not have tacos.

# ? Sep 29, 2010 17:50

sigmachiev: Dec 31, 2007; Fighting blood excels

evilweasel posted:

texas

Respectfully disagree - Austin is a badass city, and there are tons of hot chicks and good bbq throughout.

I mean what's crackin in South Dakota? What does South Dakota do or have? Seriously.

# ? Sep 29, 2010 17:53

J Miracle: Mar 25, 2010; It took 32 years, but I finally figured out push-ups!

CaptainScraps posted:

Michigan does not have tacos.

hey I've had plenty of awesome tacos in michigan son. Plus we're the dark horse of craft beer states, there's a shitload of great breweries here.

No jobs though

# ? Sep 29, 2010 18:04

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

CaptainScraps posted:

Michigan does not have tacos.

I hear texans still put cheese on tacos

sigmachiev posted:

I mean what's crackin in South Dakota? What does South Dakota do or have? Seriously.

Jobs and some carved faces on a mountain.

# ? Sep 29, 2010 18:13

Roger_Mudd: Jul 18, 2003; Buglord

J Miracle posted:

hey I've had plenty of awesome tacos in michigan son.

You only think you have awesome tacos.

# ? Sep 29, 2010 18:14

Revolver: Feb 23, 2004

sigmachiev posted:

I mean what's crackin in South Dakota? What does South Dakota do or have? Seriously.

Wall Drug

# ? Sep 29, 2010 18:19

G-Mawwwwwww: Jan 31, 2003; My LPth are Hot Garbage; Biscuit Hider

Roger_Mudd posted:

You only think you have awesome tacos.

It's truth.

I used to think a dim sum joint I frequented was awesome until I went to Hong Kong.

What they do to siu mai is so depressing here

# ? Sep 29, 2010 18:20

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 15, 2024 23:12

TheBestDeception: Nov 28, 2007

J Miracle posted:

No jobs though

Rick Perry reminds me daily that Texas has tons of jobs, so we win there. On the downside: Rick Perry.

# ? Sep 29, 2010 18:22

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Ask/Tell > Business, Finance, and Careers > Lawyer & Law School Megathread #12: Started Out Barrister, Ended Up Barista

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