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Ziir posted:Edit: Why is there an article in front of Abenteurer? I dunno, why is there an article in front of "adventurer"?
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Oct 6, 2010 21:56
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Zwille posted:I dunno, why is there an article in front of "adventurer"? Well, one would say, "ich bin Student" and not "ich bin ein Student" so I thought it applies here as well.
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Oct 6, 2010 22:27
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Ziir posted:Well, one would say, "ich bin Student" and not "ich bin ein Student" so I thought it applies here as well. Because it sounds wrong in this case. Hungry Gerbil fucked around with this message at 22:52 on Oct 6, 2010 |
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Oct 6, 2010 22:46
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Hmm ok. I googled the original translated phrase and was able to find the book in a pdf format. That's great cause now I have something to attempt to read in German.
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Oct 6, 2010 22:53
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Ziir posted:Why is there an article in front of Abenteurer?
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Oct 6, 2010 23:00
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Hungry Gerbil posted:Because it sounds wrong in this case. The default answer for when there's probably some convoluted grammatical rule, but not even a native speaker can figure it out. I am not a native speaker of German, but I speak it fluently, and have been on the giving and receiving side of that remark so many times...and it always drives me nuts. Ziir, good luck reading it in German! It should be interesting to see how the different translations compare to each other. Though if you speak any Portuguese, I'd recommend reading it in that. Translations, no matter how good they're supposed to be, are sometimes off or just lack something that the original has. An example would be the sentence and its two translations: ›Ich bin ein Abenteurer auf dem Weg zu meinem Schatz.‹ implies something different than "I’m an adventurer, looking for treasure." The former to me implies that he's searching for a lover or at least someone close to him, which I don't get out of the English at all. And now I'd really like to know what the "truth" is... This is the reason I rarely read translations.
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Oct 7, 2010 04:21
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Hungry Gerbil posted:Because it sounds wrong in this case. It does? Not to me; both sound perfectly reasonable. Try to substitute it with Student or Lastwagenfahrer or something and look if it still sounds wrong to you.
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Oct 7, 2010 05:56
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Allia posted:The default answer for when there's probably some convoluted grammatical rule, but not even a native speaker can figure it out. Unfortunately I don't know Portuguese  .
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Oct 7, 2010 08:56
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Sereri posted:It does? Not to me; both sound perfectly reasonable. Try to substitute it with Student or Lastwagenfahrer or something and look if it still sounds wrong to you.
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Oct 7, 2010 09:03
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I wouldn't ever say "Ich bin Student" but rather "Ich studiere", same for Lastwagenfahrer ("Ich fahre Lastwagen"), and neither would I say "Ich bin Berliner" or "Ich bin ein Berliner" but rather "Ich bin aus Berlin" or "Ich bin in Berlin aufgewachsen", but maybe that's just me.
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Oct 7, 2010 09:27
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It seems some customs never got distilled into rules simply because nobody could find a system behind them.
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Oct 7, 2010 09:34
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Zwille posted:I wouldn't ever say "Ich bin Student" but rather "Ich studiere", same for Lastwagenfahrer ("Ich fahre Lastwagen"), and neither would I say "Ich bin Berliner" or "Ich bin ein Berliner" but rather "Ich bin aus Berlin" or "Ich bin in Berlin aufgewachsen", but maybe that's just me. I wasn't trying to disagree with you, especially if German is your native language. I was just confused because in all of my classes I've been told to always omit the article so if this was an exception, I wanted to know why. I like westborn's explanation though. Ziir fucked around with this message at 09:57 on Oct 7, 2010 |
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Oct 7, 2010 09:50
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I wasn't responding to the whole article thing either but rather that I won't even say the sentences in a way that would even require articles, i.e. I'd rather use the verb form of those nouns instead of using an article + noun construction.
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Oct 7, 2010 12:56
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westborn posted:Because Abenteurer isn't exactly an ordinary job designation, where it would be dropped usually. I don't think that's the reason, "Ich bin Student auf dem Weg zu meinem Schatz." doesn't quite sound right either. Strangely, "Auf dem Weg zu meinem Schatz bin ich Abenteurer." is perfectly fine.
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Oct 7, 2010 13:08
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"Ich Abenteurer bin auf dem Weg zu meinem Schatz." This sounds more natural? I dunno. Edit: vvv Very interesting. I have never heard about the Nullartikel.  vvv
Hungry Gerbil fucked around with this message at 13:47 on Oct 7, 2010 |
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Oct 7, 2010 13:18
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That sounds exactly like how Andreas Brandhorst translates Terry Pratchett's troll speech. It does have something to with job designation, I just looked it up and learned the word "Nullartikel" in the process (used when there is neither a definite nor indefinite article). Specifically it says here you don't use an article when you're talking about someone's job, religion, function or nationality, unless there is an additional attribute: "Er ist Koch" ("He's a cook") / "Er ist ein guter Koch" ("He's a good cook") There's also a difference between using a job designation and using a word to judge someone. So I guess you'd say: "Er ist Abenteurer" when it's his actual job, and "Er ist ein Abenteurer" when you want to express that he's simply the kind of person who actively goes out looking for kicks in unusual situations. But he's actually a bank clerk or something. Note that this usage is often slightly disparaging.
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Oct 7, 2010 13:43
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Previously on GBS posted:Strangely, "Auf dem Weg zu meinem Schatz bin ich Abenteurer." is perfectly fine.
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Oct 7, 2010 13:48
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westborn posted:It's not perfectly fine, because it can be taken to mean he's only an adventurer when he's on his way to his treasure. It's grammatical. So given that we're discussing grammaticality and not semantic equivalence, it's perfectly fine.
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Oct 7, 2010 13:53
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westborn posted:It's not perfectly fine, because it can be taken to mean he's only an adventurer when he's on his way to his treasure. Yeah but I get more of a "sweetheart" vibe instead of "treasure" vibe from that for some reason. As in, he's adventurous when on his way to his sweetheart. Everybody'd be an adventurer when on the way to actual treasure in the Indiana Jones/pirate sense.
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Oct 7, 2010 13:53
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Previously on GBS posted:It's grammatical. So given that we're discussing grammaticality and not semantic equivalence, it's perfectly fine. Unless you're Gollum, "mein Schatz" is "my sweetheart" /E: Yeah pirates work too
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Oct 7, 2010 13:56
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Zwille posted:Yeah but I get more of a "sweetheart" vibe instead of "treasure" vibe from that for some reason. As in, he's adventurous when on his way to his sweetheart. I'm positive the line isn't about a sweetheart or romantic interest, but rather literally treasure. The main character says this line when he gets his poo poo stolen in a strange city where he didn't know anyone or speak the language. I think he realizes he could pout and go home, or that he could make the best of it and go on. The treasure he seeks, as far as he knows, is some kind of gold.
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Oct 7, 2010 14:37
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Ziir posted:I'm positive the line isn't about a sweetheart or romantic interest, but rather literally treasure. The main character says this line when he gets his poo poo stolen in a strange city where he didn't know anyone or speak the language. I think he realizes he could pout and go home, or that he could make the best of it and go on. The treasure he seeks, as far as he knows, is some kind of gold. Oh he knows that. It was more of a general thing. 'Schatz' associated with 'mein' should be translated to 'sweetheart'/'dear' in like 95% of all cases. You know, unless the person is a pirate/etc talking about an actual treasure of gold/money/diamonds belonging to him. Sereri fucked around with this message at 14:46 on Oct 7, 2010 |
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Oct 7, 2010 14:44
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Sereri posted:Unless you're Gollum, "mein Schatz" is "my sweetheart"
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Oct 8, 2010 09:48
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I've spent the summer in the states, and my family has a membership to the YMCA. This is been great, because we get to swim/use the gym equipment. I really want to get working on my fitness, and I'd like to continue swimming and start working out. Are any of you familiar with a similar program in Berlin? The CVJM in Berlin does offer sports, but it's volley ball or soccer. The Uni sport programs (I'm at the HU, but the HTW is closer to me) are great, but they're full classes (so it's not like I can do one one week and then do something different the next), and the ones I want to do don't fit into my schedule for Uni. Swimming is taken care of because the SSV in my dorm goes swimming three times a week. But I really would like access to, say, a treadmill, and some general aerobics classes. I'm going to try to talk a friend into going jogging with me, and I'm going to be hounding the SSV to actually get the fitness room that has been planned for the last year and a half. But are there cheap gym memberships/programs where you can just go and sample what's there? The Y offers all these 45 min classes from about 6am - 10pm, and has equipment you can use too. Since I have NO experience in any of this... I'd like to have at least someone to show me what to do, and I like classes because they give me a reason to get my butt out the door. I live on the border between Marzahn and Lichtenberg, though Mitte and Freidrichshain would be okay if it's on the way home from Uni. Anything you might know of nearby?
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Oct 10, 2010 00:40
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See if your university has something called a Hochschulsport or similar. Mine has one and offers gym memberships for 90 € per six months which is a hell of a deal, and they have a ton of programs ranging from fencing to climbing to golf to boxing to whatever the hell "Nordic Walking" is. Most/all of them costs some kind of fee, but from what I can tell and heard it's a minimal amount and I'm sure they'll let you come try it out before paying for it. Another German language question: does anyone know of a website that explains flavoring particles with examples, when to use them, how to interpret them? Because right now it's all voodoo magic to me. In my German courses back in the US my German teacher just skipped over them when the book mentioned them because "they were too hard and not important." The book said something similar I think cause it only had maybe just one or two pages covering them.
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Oct 10, 2010 17:32
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I'm at the Humboldt University, and I've used both their Hochschulsport, the HTW and the FU Hochschulsports as well -- I love the programs so much. Just annoyed that the few classes I want are at bad times for me. *sigh* I didn't know they had a gym membership thing, though. I'm too chicken to go to a "real" gym, but if the Uni has one, that sounds great. I'll definitely check it out. And Nordic Walking is basically taking long walks with those ski pole things. quote:does anyone know of a website that explains flavoring particles with examples, when to use them, how to interpret them? Um...what? Seriously, do you have an example? I'm coming up totally blank towards what you mean. Chances are, once I know what you mean, I can explain it, though. The one good thing about slaving through Latin is that I know my grammar (in theory).
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Oct 10, 2010 18:17
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Allia posted:I'm too chicken to go to a "real" gym Why not? Real gyms are awesome! Read this, it should dispell the fears a bit. Ziir posted:Another German language question: does anyone know of a website that explains flavoring particles with examples, when to use them, how to interpret them? Because right now it's all voodoo magic to me. In my German courses back in the US my German teacher just skipped over them when the book mentioned them because "they were too hard and not important." The book said something similar I think cause it only had maybe just one or two pages covering them. If I'm reading it right, you're talking about modal particles (Abtönungspartikeln)? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_modal_particle Liface fucked around with this message at 18:38 on Oct 10, 2010 |
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Oct 10, 2010 18:36
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Allia posted:I'm too chicken to go to a "real" gym Don't be! If it's just that and not the money, I'd definitely check out the many gyms there must be in Berlin. You'll surely find something around 20€/month where you can swim, take classes and work out with machines/free weights.
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Oct 10, 2010 18:36
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I can't think of any examples because I don't know any, but sometimes I'll read sentences or hear phrases with words like doch and mal or even ja randomly thrown in. I know what those words mean on their own, but when I see them used this way it makes no sense to me. If I simply ignore the words then the sentence makes perfect sense, but I think a lot of the meaning that these particles were trying to convey get lost. Edit: I've read the wikipedia entry before but it wasn't really too helpful. I'll try reading it again now. Maybe I've learned more and it'll make better sense? Ziir fucked around with this message at 18:40 on Oct 10, 2010 |
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Oct 10, 2010 18:38
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Thanks for the site! It's true that I don't want to spend a ton. I don't know what my finances will be like this coming semester, because my BAFöG is up in the air and I lost my job. But I dunno, gyms are just full of equipment I know next to nothing about, and people always talk about gym memberships and how you have to go so often and stuff. While getting in a routine is actually good for me (and something I do want to start), going to a real gym where people are really into it seems intimidating. Especially since I am a weak little thing. I've been trying to do push-ups on my own, and I can get maybe three full push-ups -- and I am pretty sure I'm not going down far enough. I also can't run (though I walk a ton), and I'm extremely hyperactive and prone to situational depression...and exercising helps a TON to combat those. If I have something I can focus on, something that makes me feel good, I'm hoping that it will help me a lot. That said, I'm wary of just going to some random gym, because I want something that's low key and willing to work with a complete newbie. If I can find the Hochschulsport program, that'd be awesome. quote:I'll read sentences or hear phrases with words like doch and mal or even ja randomly thrown in. I know what those words mean on their own, but when I see them used this way it makes no sense to me. Hmm... I think they're meant to convey an extra strength to what you're saying. You don't need them, but they accent what you're trying to say. What's the wiki page?
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Oct 10, 2010 18:59
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McFit is one the cheapest gym chains around here I think and they cost about 15 bucks if you enter a 2 year contract. They're pretty cool about telling you what stuff to work with (depends on the gym though, so take a free training lesson to test the waters) and you can gradually work your way up. They don't have anything exciting like swimming pools or saunas, though. Plus, they're open 24/7 and there's lots of their gyms all across Berlin so you can switch locations around however you like.
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Oct 10, 2010 22:01
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Allia posted:Hmm... I think they're meant to convey an extra strength to what you're saying. You don't need them, but they accent what you're trying to say. What's the wiki page? This seems to be one of the more advanced subjects about the German language and you can probably get by without actively using these words, but it'll generally be good to understand what they mean when other people talk to you so as not to misread them.
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Oct 11, 2010 00:01
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Allia posted:Thanks for the site! Again, just read this: http://www.stumptuous.com and this: http://brainoverbrawn.com/ It's basically an intro to fitness for beginners. No one cares what anyone else does in the gym. 80% of people at gyms have no idea what you're doing. If you even read both of those links, you will actually know more than they do. If you have questions, you can ask them in the girls lifting thread in Watch and Weight, where people are really supportive: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3268290 flavor posted:Interessant, da habe ich ja noch nie drueber nachgedacht. Das scheint wohl doch eine spezielle Eigenschaft der Deutschen Sprache zu sein. Jedenfalls koennen diese Woerter sehr wohl die Bedeutung eines Satzes in ihren Nuancen veraendern. Sollte man schon festhalten und sich als Deutsch lernende Person mal mit beschaeftigen. Knowing about those articles was like opening a door for advanced fluency to me. German sounds so much more natural with lots of modal particles. Before I found the page about them on Wikipedia, I had no idea they even existed. I would recommend that every person learning German use them early and often. Liface fucked around with this message at 01:25 on Oct 11, 2010 |
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Oct 11, 2010 01:22
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I just got back from a week in Germany (Munich, Garmisch) and Italy (Bozen in the South Tyrol, German speaking area). A lot of the complaints about Oktoberfest I'm sure are valid. I didn't spend that much time on the grounds, but I do have some observations about what some might describe as a state fair in lederhosen or, a state fair on steroids. The place was loving packed. But what surprised me the most was that the beer tents were, in a sense, a small part of the bigger show: all the rides, the food places, souvenirs. It was funny seeing so many people in tracten, the traditional clothing. The best advice I got from a friend was, arrive early if you want to enjoy one of the beer tents. That was great advice. Most of my short trip was doing a lot of alpine driving (Passo Pordoi in the Italian Dolomites and Timmelsjoch Pass in Italy/Austria, and also the Zugspitze) Here are some of my snapshots:  The German war memorial at the Pordoi Pass near Cortina  The Italian side of the Timmelsjoch Pass near the Austrian border. In the background is the Otzal Glacier where they found the 6,000 yr old man.  One of the rides at Oktoberfest. iPhone Hipstamatic  Ride at Oktoberfest. iPhone Hipstamatic  I forget what this is an ad for. iPhone Hipstamatic  Guys hanging out in their tracten gear. iPhone Hipstamatic  There was some over serving. iPhone Hipstamatic  Random Oktoberfest scene. iPhone Hipstamatic  iPhone panoramic of the Oktoberfest crowd.  iPhone panoramic of the Munich main train station. An impressive place. Nothing compares with it in the US.
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Oct 11, 2010 02:05
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Cool pics, looks like you had fun. Though I'd warrant that except for Oktober-Fest, no one (under the age of 50) wears Trachtenkleider anymore. Well, Oktober-Fest and other huge festivals. I'm not saying that you shouldn't learn those words, and sure, they add an extra "oomf" to your sentence, but I don't think anyone's going to look down upon you if you don't learn/use them. To be honest, I have no idea how you would go about learning them in the first place. I learned my German through total immersion (which was both good and bad), and never was sat down and taught about those words. I mean, until flavor did the sentence, that's what I thought was meant, but wasn't completely sure. I use them -- often -- but it's like Konjunktiv, I use them without thinking about it. Heck, I was throwing in those words long before I was fluent in German, because the people around me were using them. But if someone uses them or doesn't...I'd be completely oblivious. Liface, thanks for the links. I'll definitely read through them. McFit sounds good, but the two year contract is out. I've got a year left for my BA, though I'm trying my hardest so that I can at least be out of here by July/August, if not sooner. But I'll still check them out. I'm back in Berlin now, jet-lagged (though not as badly as I could have been), and have all these errands I should do but have no desire to do. I do like Berlin, but it's fully integrated with Uni for me, so some of the fun is gone. I really should play tourist this year, since it will be my last, though.
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Oct 13, 2010 11:44
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Most contracts like that have an option for early cancelation if you move outside of a, say, 30km radius of one of their gyms, so that's something you could ask them about.
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Oct 13, 2010 12:57
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Allia posted:Though I'd warrant that except for Oktober-Fest, no one (under the age of 50) wears Trachtenkleider anymore. That's not really true. Lederhosen and Dirndl may no longer be as prevalent as 30 or 40 years ago, but you just have to spend some time in the rural areas of Bavaria and Austria and you'll see plenty of those, especially at local festivals (e.g. Pfarrfeste - the festivals accompanying the feasts of the local patron saint) and on Sundays in the church. Just a couple of days ago there were many of my relatives visiting us, some of them going with their SOs from northern Germay. When we were going to church on Sunday, it was Erntedankfest (the German catholic version of Thanksgiving, I guess?) and the looks on their faces were absolutely priceless when the apprentice boys of the lokal baker came in, all in Lederhosen, and started to give out the traditional Erntedanksemmeln (buns)  But on the other hand, the Trachten seen at Oktoberfest are mostly only worn by teenagers who want to get shitfaced and make out, they've got nothing to do with the traditional dresses which look more like this:  My great-grandmother used to wear this But they've pretty much died out by now.
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Oct 13, 2010 15:31
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In Bavaria, traditionally you get married in Lederhosen and Dirndl and quite a few people still do that, even in Munich. I wish I'd done that.System Metternich posted:My great-grandmother used to wear this I would be happy if all the drat tourists who feel the need to appropriate Bavarian culture would at least wear regular modern Dirndls instead of those cheap slutty versions.
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Oct 13, 2010 16:57
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Previously on GBS posted:I would be happy if all the drat tourists who feel the need to appropriate Bavarian culture would at least wear regular modern Dirndls instead of those cheap slutty versions. But how would you see their boobs then 
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Oct 13, 2010 17:25
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^^How could we forget that? Though what's the reason for guys? Or don't they have slutty guy versions? Cool. Out of all the places I've lived in Germany, I never actually lived in Bayern, and I was only there once, for a day. I've just always been told that people don't wear that stuff anymore. Though if they do...cool. To be honest, I always thought the (realistic) costumes were neat. Last year I ran across a group of people (20s) in the U-Bahn dressed up in (traditional) Trachtenkleider for some event and chatted with them. I may be a dork, but I do love traditional costumes and old-fashioned clothing. I was chatting with a friend, who actually does attend a gym near me, so I think I'll be going with her. For one thing, I'll have someone remind me to go, and secondly, I'll have company. And it's like 18 Euros a month, which seems decent.
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Oct 13, 2010 21:39
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