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Mookie posted:For the SF vs. SV thing, I agree that the "prestige" portion will be the same to a law student's eyes. However, it won't be after he's been there a few years. In SV, the general litigators are very frequently second class citizens to the IP litigators, given the nature of the business there - the IP guys are the ones who are likely to have the primary client relationships, etc. Add to that the lack of decent local litigation work if the firm also has a SF office (where the securities and white collar litigation practices will be concentrated) and there are definitely fewer avenues for advancement as a non-IP litigator in an SV office. Other firms, and others within the firm, know this, which radically changes the "prestige" calculation once you shed the law student perspective.
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Oct 9, 2010 21:38
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I took the LSAT today and I took it like a champ. Yesterday, I did almost no studying. I have been studying for 4 months or so, another night was not going to make a big difference. Had a nice day of resting, relaxing and had a beer or two before I went to bed. Got up, felt great. Walked into test today. I avoided everyone who wanted to talk about the test and just talked about sports during the break. Walked back in and crushed the rest of my exam. No stressin' Let's hope I get a good score.
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Oct 10, 2010 01:25
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Phil Moscowitz posted:Anyone who doesn't go to law school is a human being sissy pussy freshman who deserves to choke on a weiner. Do it. Come on. Do it. Ah yes, reverse reverse psychology! Phil = genius
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Oct 10, 2010 01:35
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Defleshed posted:Ah yes, reverse reverse psychology! Phil = genius
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Oct 10, 2010 01:39
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Enigma89 posted:I took the LSAT today and I took it like a champ. Yesterday, I did almost no studying. I have been studying for 4 months or so, another night was not going to make a big difference. Had a nice day of resting, relaxing and had a beer or two before I went to bed. Got up, felt great. Walked into test today. I avoided everyone who wanted to talk about the test and just talked about sports during the break. Walked back in and crushed the rest of my exam. Sounds like you were literally me today 
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Oct 10, 2010 03:53
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Yeah I took the LSAT today too and did pretty well. I won't go into specifics but I will say that Reading Comp was a piece of cake and Logical Reasoning wasn't too bad, although there were a few strange question stems. I got two Games sections and unfortunately did better on the experimental section. From what I hear the real section was the one with drivers, nurses and artifacts. I still did okay but I probably missed 2-3 questions, whereas in the experimental section I know I aced it with time to spare.
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Oct 10, 2010 04:11
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look at all these special snowflakes up in here
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Oct 10, 2010 04:30
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How are people reading through these threads and still deciding to take the LSAT and apply to law school?
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Oct 10, 2010 04:41
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more friedman units posted:How are people reading through these threads and still deciding to take the LSAT and apply to law school? Optimism bias. See also Cass R. Sunstein, Behavioral Law and Economics 1-10 (2000).
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Oct 10, 2010 04:49
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Ersatz posted:Optimism bias. See also Cass R. Sunstein, Behavioral Law and Economics 1-10 (2000). It goes beyond being overly optimistic, this is like watching people waiting in line to walk straight into a sawblade.
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Oct 10, 2010 05:18
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more friedman units posted:It goes beyond being overly optimistic, this is like watching people waiting in line to walk straight into a sawblade. Optimism bias in the sense that Sunstein describes is unrealistic systemic overconfidence with regard to risk despite knowledge of the facts, causing informed individuals to behave as if the risks are less likely to materialize for themselves than for others. That kind of systemic irrationality is the only explanation that makes sense to me with regard to steadily increasing law school enrollment, assuming that prospective students are actually aware of the terrible state of the market. That's generally a bad assumption, but people who've been reading these threads have been exposed to the statistics and a lot of anecdotal evidence besides, and many of them are still in snowflake mode.
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Oct 10, 2010 05:51
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This thread really has taken a steady dive into the macabre in the last few years. I remember in previous threads, LSAT season was lame because the thread would be flooded with people talking about taking it and advice about studying for it and all that but these days when someone mentions that they're taking the LSAT they just get shouted down and we go back to talking about tacos. I mean I'm not complaining, tacos are more interesting and people who are thinking about going to law school deserve to be shouted down but I'm just saying, we aren't even biting our tongues anymore. And yet they come
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Oct 10, 2010 06:04
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It's the same poo poo that makes people think that 75% of students will rank in the top 15% of the class, 85% will make salaries in the 90th percentile after graduating, and that 100% of people can be in the top 2% of earners with enough hard work.
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Oct 10, 2010 06:07
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I'm doing my second round of interviews of OCIs next week plenty of jobs guys hop in the water's great not at all macabre up in here
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Oct 10, 2010 06:08
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You know I've never actually looked up the word "macabre" in the dictionary, I just assume I know what it means through context. Not gonna look it up now, that's for sure
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Oct 10, 2010 06:13
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But then you'll try to use it one day in real life and be all embarrassed because it's pronounced different than it looks and everyone will know you're a dude who learns words through reading
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Oct 10, 2010 06:16
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Ainsley McTree posted:You know I've never actually looked up the word "macabre" in the dictionary, I just assume I know what it means through context.
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Oct 10, 2010 06:18
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Applying is not the same as enrolling. Are you saying that nowadays it's NEVER worth it even if you get into a T14 school? [/snowflake]
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Oct 10, 2010 06:26
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Yes because you have to be a lawyer
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Oct 10, 2010 06:34
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Today's story: At a wedding, my cousin was talking about an interview with a plaintiff's firm that he walked out on. He said, "The guy was a loving rear end in a top hat. A) He hated defense counsel and B) Asked me when the last time I got in a fight was, because he thinks plaintiff's attorneys should be aggressive." Me: "Can I get that number?"
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Oct 10, 2010 06:34
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IrritationX posted:It's the same poo poo that makes people think that 75% of students will rank in the top 15% of the class, 85% will make salaries in the 90th percentile after graduating, and that 100% of people can be in the top 2% of earners with enough hard work. And when this special snowflake realizes it isn't true, he concludes that nobody else has a chance, either.
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Oct 10, 2010 06:38
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CaptainScraps posted:Today's story: Yeah I view litigation as an opportunity to wade in my enemies' blood, organize their skulls in a pleasing pile, and take advantage of their women. Hey, can we blow this gay interview and go yell at cars?
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Oct 10, 2010 06:40
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runoverbobby posted:Applying is not the same as enrolling. Are you saying that nowadays it's NEVER worth it even if you get into a T14 school? [/snowflake] If your goal in going to law school isn't to land a big law job you should understand that it is extremely difficult to land stable public interest employment. If you have a full ride to a T14 and are absolutely positive that you want to be a lawyer and understand everything that that entails it might be worth it.
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Oct 10, 2010 06:42
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hypocrite lecteur posted:Yeah I view litigation as an opportunity to wade in my enemies' blood, organize their skulls in a pleasing pile, and take advantage of their women. Hey, can we blow this gay interview and go yell at cars? gently caress that poo poo, I wave my dick at traffic. Yelling's for sissies.
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Oct 10, 2010 06:43
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hypocrite lecteur posted:Yeah I view litigation as an opportunity to wade in my enemies' blood, organize their skulls in a pleasing pile, and take advantage of their women. Hey, can we blow this gay interview and go yell at cars? Someone once described litigation to me as "state-sanctioned bloodlust." Never have I wanted to do something more.
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Oct 10, 2010 06:53
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joat mon posted:And when this special snowflake realizes it isn't true, he concludes that nobody else has a chance, either.
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Oct 10, 2010 07:02
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joat mon posted:And when this special snowflake realizes it isn't true, he concludes that nobody else has a chance, either. go for it
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Oct 10, 2010 07:04
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The Warszawa posted:Someone once described litigation to me as "state-sanctioned bloodlust." Never have I wanted to do something more. Bloodlust where your weapons are negotiating strenuously and maybe faxing something on a Friday afternoon to be a dick.
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Oct 10, 2010 07:25
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Ersatz posted:To be fair, some of us are trying to dissuade people from making a life choice that is probably going to go very badly, despite having been lucky ourselves. No, I'm with you - there's a need to counteract some of the cultural myths about law school and the crap that law schools put out to sell seats. But putting out information like, If there ever was a time that a JD was a license to print your own money, it isn't now. If there ever was a time when everyone got awesome jobs right out of law school, it isn't now. Your JD is going to cost a ton of money, and you're not going to see that much difference in salary from a professional who didn't pay out those outrageous sums. Given that the law job market is no different that any other professional job market, and you're not going to pay your loans off in 5 years, a JD isn't the 'sure thing' you thought it was. Is different from 'you might as well slit your wrists and burn your money' (Alone.) (In the rain.)
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Oct 10, 2010 07:28
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Cormack posted:Bloodlust where your weapons are negotiating strenuously and maybe faxing something on a Friday afternoon to be a dick. Just the kind of passive-aggressive pillaging the modern man needs.
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Oct 10, 2010 07:34
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Cormack posted:Bloodlust where your weapons are negotiating strenuously and maybe faxing something on a Friday afternoon to be a dick. Also your legendary warriors look like this  joat mon posted:No, I'm with you - there's a need to counteract some of the cultural myths about law school and the crap that law schools put out to sell seats. Perhaps the literal sentence "you might as well slit your wrists and burn your money" is a little harsh but I think that a lot of people take the LSAT thinking "well I'm not planning to make biglaw money, I'll just do whatever because everyone needs lawyers and I'll learn to love the job along the way and even if that doesn't work out a law degree will open all sorts of doors that my usless poli sci degree doesn't" and I strongly believe that those people need to be told how dumb they are because that was certainly my attitude towards law school and if someone had yelled at me and told me what an error I was making I'd probably be in a better spot right now. Well I'd probably be working some lovely office job and whining and I wouldn't realize how much worse off I'd have been if I'd gone to law school because nobody has the ability to peer into parallel universes as far as I know but my point is I'd probably be having more sex because it's hard to find things to talk about on dates when you're jobless Instead all I got was encouragement. "Law school, I'm so proud of you!" Stupid loving parents
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Oct 10, 2010 07:53
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Took the LSAT today also, felt like it went well-ish except for logic games. The nurses and artifacts one was the non-experimental, you are correct. Are we not supposed to talk about that or something? Anyways, logic games are not my strong suit and they came last for me so I was kind of drained at that point. Definitely didn't crush it, but I think I did well. Went and got drunk and watched football for the rest of the day, so the day overall was pretty swell. Also a lot of people in this thread seem to think everyone wanting to go to law school is an idiot who is right out of some liberal arts major and isn't greedy and just wants to make 100,000 a year in a governmental job or whatever your standard line is. You come off like you're looking down on us from your high and mighty seat of knowledge of how it really works. I mean I follow this thread a lot, I enjoy reading it, I knew what I was getting myself into before reading the thread, stop treating everyone who posts some interest in your job field like they are a braindead moron. I agree a lot of people don't understand what they are getting into, but some do. Hope I didn't piss anyone off, like I said I do enjoy reading tacochat, and look forward to contributing to such chat in the future.
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Oct 10, 2010 07:57
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Walamor posted:Also a lot of people in this thread seem to think everyone wanting to go to law school is an idiot who is right out of some liberal arts major and isn't greedy and just wants to make 100,000 a year in a governmental job or whatever your standard line is. You come off like you're looking down on us from your high and mighty seat of knowledge of how it really works. I mean I follow this thread a lot, I enjoy reading it, I knew what I was getting myself into before reading the thread, stop treating everyone who posts some interest in your job field like they are a braindead moron. I agree a lot of people don't understand what they are getting into, but some do. Hope I didn't piss anyone off, like I said I do enjoy reading tacochat, and look forward to contributing to such chat in the future. Law school, I'm so proud of you!
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Oct 10, 2010 07:58
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Ainsley McTree posted:Law school, I'm so proud of you! Thanks Dad! 
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Oct 10, 2010 08:00
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Cormack posted:Bloodlust where your weapons are negotiating strenuously and maybe faxing something on a Friday afternoon to be a dick. Pretty much this. "Bloodlust" in most litigation means "opposing counsel will waste slightly more time responding to this discovery than I wasted drafting it." Also sometimes you can ruin his toner if you send your 200 pages of bullshit admission requests by fax instead of by mail. WADING IN THE BLOOD OF YOUR ENEMIES I TELL YOU. If it gets to the point where the thought of sending out interrogatories really gets your blood pumping then you should probably get out more (or see your cardiologist).
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Oct 10, 2010 08:04
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Walamor posted:Also a lot of people in this thread seem to think everyone wanting to go to law school is an idiot who is right out of some liberal arts major and isn't greedy and just wants to make 100,000 a year in a governmental job or whatever your standard line is. You come off like you're looking down on us from your high and mighty seat of knowledge of how it really works. I mean I follow this thread a lot, I enjoy reading it, I knew what I was getting myself into before reading the thread, stop treating everyone who posts some interest in your job field like they are a braindead moron. I agree a lot of people don't understand what they are getting into, but some do. Hope I didn't piss anyone off, like I said I do enjoy reading tacochat, and look forward to contributing to such chat in the future. You really don't, though. When you're a random LSAT test taker with no lawyers in the family you might as well think legal practice is Legally Blonde. There are exceptions, mostly people like Petey that've published law review articles before ever attending, but the legal profession is probably the most misportrayed job in America; when you have no family practicing law and think of the word lawyer, you don't think "professional document reviewer" or "has practiced for 15 years, filed upwards of ten thousand cases and never set foot in a courthouse (because there are other lawyers almost literally stabbing each other on the courthouse steps for the privilege of getting paid $100 to sit in court and ask the judge to postpone hearings all day)". When you have a lawyer or several lawyers in the family and do have a vague idea of what legal practice is like, they all have wildly different ideas about the job market or think that BIGLAWyers still bill 1700 hours, etc. You might have the theoretical knowledge that it's a brass ring but the vast majority of people reading this won't internalize it until long after they proudly tell all their friends "I'm going to X". Oh yeah, I'm someone that *loved* law school and would pay twice the money to go again. I don't practice law and I'd have to be very starving and very unemployed indeed to go back. But other than the loans, which I'm taking care of through my useful LS-acquired skill of "playing cards on the Internet", I have no negative feelings about my LS, because I lived in a frat house and my t14 diploma at least looks pretty. Most people can't say nearly as much. On top of paying lots of money to a school for a certification that is ~186/200ths likely to be worth less than the money you paid and that lets you do something you have no idea about right now, you're not even going to enjoy the experience. That makes you guys suckers, so while the attitude around here might be a bit too acerbic, it's pretty much spot on.
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Oct 10, 2010 12:54
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Walamor posted:
What do you think our motivation is? The motivation is pure, despite the tone of the message. It gets tiresome when snowflake after snowflake pops in and tries to explain why he or she is different and won't suffer the fate of many in this thread.
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Oct 10, 2010 12:55
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Thanks to this thread, I trolled some SLS/HLS kids at a wedding yesterday. Yes, I realize they will probably have jobs but watching the pained expression on their faces when I told them I had heard some rumors of the legal job market not being what it used to be was pretty funny. One of them was wearing a bowtie. He deserved it.
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Oct 10, 2010 13:47
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Ainsley McTree posted:I strongly believe that those people need to be told how dumb they are because that was certainly my attitude towards law school and if someone had yelled at me and told me what an error I was making I'd probably be in a better spot right now. The problem is that when you tell a person they are wrong they are more likely to assume they are right, ignoring all evidence to the contrary and running forward with their eyes shut. We're probably making the problem worse by telling people that going to law school is a bad decision, they "love the law" and "always wanted to be a lawyer" and "don't need to make $100k". Tell one of those people that they shouldn't and you're basically guaranteeing they'll go to law school. I mean you can see it happening with Walamor and he's probably the 30th iteration of it in just this version of the thread. It's probably more harm than good, but at least in a couple years you can say I told you so.
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Oct 10, 2010 14:28
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Walamor posted:Also a lot of people in this thread seem to think everyone wanting to go to law school is an idiot who is right out of some liberal arts major we think the engineers going to law school are idiots too
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Oct 10, 2010 14:56
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