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So here is a question, ToEE or Icewind Dale?
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Oct 13, 2010 17:11
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Chara posted:So here is a question, ToEE or Icewind Dale? Is ToEE actually playable now? From what I remember the game was a horrible abortion of a game.
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Oct 13, 2010 17:31
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Toadsniff posted:Is ToEE actually playable now? From what I remember the game was a horrible abortion of a game. Read back one page.
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Oct 13, 2010 17:32
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ToEE is great once you restore all the poo poo it was supposed to have, and fix so many terrible, stupid bugs. You wanna know how stupid the bugs were in this? There was a bug in the basic math of masterwork armors, where it was supposed to reduce the dex penalty of the item. Of course, you could say that the dex penalty is reduced by one. So -1 to dex penalty, or dex penalty + -1. Well, that's how it ended up in the actual code, actually, so because the dex penalty was expressed as a negative number to begin with, masterwork armor ended up actually INCREASING the dex penalty. This is the depth of incredibly stupid problems even in basic arithmetic that plagued this game, which says nothing of the vast tracks of content ripped from the game because Hasbro didn't want you to be able to play an evil character. Long story short, the Co8 patch transforms one of the most bug-ridden pieces of trash into possibly the most open D&D game in terms of player choices, and definitely the most system-accurate PC D&D game in the last 10 years.
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Oct 13, 2010 17:40
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I've got ToEE in the box; I bought it a few years ago, but never got into it because my party would be easily wiped in one of the first encounters. I was probably playing it wrong; does the Circle of Eight patch set do anything to try and even out the difficulty so I can have a slightly less painful introduction to the game? I can't find a big list of changes that the Co8 patch drops, but I'm downloading it anyway. Hopefully the GoG release doesn't have the incompatible "Atari Patch 3" included, but if so, I still have my discs. Seat Safety Switch fucked around with this message at 17:44 on Oct 13, 2010 |
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Oct 13, 2010 17:41
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Seat Safety Switch posted:I can't find a big list of changes that the Co8 patch drops The change-log was around 400kb, last time I checked. 'Everything' just about sums it up.
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Oct 13, 2010 17:45
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This is annoying. I can't get the ToEE patcher to recognize that I have ToEE installed.
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Oct 13, 2010 17:52
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Bats posted:The christ are you in Curst already? I've been playing a bit and I've yet to leave Sigil. I mean I've been going about trying to do quests and stuff and then eventually make my way to this Pharod guy but I've yet to come across anyone that's like 'oh hay you are going to the next area for this bit!' Once you're done with the stuff in the Hive the game just speeds you through all the following areas. I tried a clean install to fix my loading problem but that didn't work. What ended up helping me out was going to an old, old save and then just running around entering and leaving buildings for half an hour. Then I loaded up my current save and tried entering that god drat grain silo again and it worked. The whole experience is just bizarre, and I'm somewhat amused that the standard lovely community tech support still exists. "Crashing problems? Turn off UAC" is the new "Try restarting your computer."
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Oct 13, 2010 18:01
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Farquar posted:You'll love it. It's basically AoW with more fun stuff included. Awesome, more turn-based strategy games should have grim reapers.
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Oct 13, 2010 18:02
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For anyone installing the Co8 mod, don't bother with their instructions to install Patch 2. Just install the Co8 mod over the base GOG installation.
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Oct 13, 2010 18:14
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Avira is claiming that ToEE.exe is a TR/Crypt.XPACK.Gen trojan what do I do 
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Oct 13, 2010 18:18
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Can I play TOEE or IWD in a window?
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Oct 13, 2010 18:47
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Eej posted:Avira is claiming that ToEE.exe is a TR/Crypt.XPACK.Gen trojan what do I do Either ignore it or turn off Avira I had this same problem when I bought a boxed copy years ago.
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Oct 13, 2010 18:53
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GOG  , I just found out about you and now I'm already about to pick up ANOTHER game in the same week. I've always wanted to play TOEE, so now is as good of a time as any, I suppose.Eej posted:Avira is claiming that ToEE.exe is a TR/Crypt.XPACK.Gen trojan what do I do It's just trying to save you from playing a broken game . It doesn't know about CO8.
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Oct 13, 2010 18:59
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Ugh, ToEE, really? I guess we could have used a week off. What a shoddy game.A Fancy 400 lbs posted:No. Just wait for the GoG version though, obviously. Why? AoW:SM works just fine on modern machines. I was running it last night on Win 7 x64 with no problems. Since their doing this near-simultaneously, I wouldn't be surprised if the Steam and GoG versions of the games are identical.
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Oct 13, 2010 19:13
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:Ugh, ToEE, really? I guess we could have used a week off. What a shoddy game. Not if you fan patch it with a patch that is easier to install and use than BG1, BG2, or PST. It's the only D&D game out there on PC that has combat worth a poo poo and gives the player the agency to have whatever motives they want. The story's not a huge sprawling epic but as a D&D dungeon crawler it's top of the heap by a wide margin.
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Oct 13, 2010 19:18
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:Ugh, ToEE, really? I guess we could have used a week off. What a shoddy game. How are you enjoying being wrong? (3.x is objectively bad but ToEE is good.)
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Oct 13, 2010 20:22
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So if I am to choose between IWD and ToEE, is it recommended to get the latter?
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Oct 13, 2010 20:31
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:Ugh, ToEE, really? I guess we could have used a week off. What a shoddy game. Normally I think people who say "the fan patch makes it much better!" are full of poo poo because these kind of huge fan-made overhauls usually break more than they fix, completely unbalance the game, change so much poo poo that it's barely even the same experience, add in a bunch of poorly written and designed content that brings the whole thing down, etc... but in this case it's true, the fan patch really does salvage the game. Without Circle of Eight, ToEE is a buggy, boring mess. With Circle of Eight, it's a fantastic dungeon crawl that's as close as any game has ever come to replicating the rules of D&D. It really does make a world of difference. If you have the old discs lying around I recommend giving it another shot with the patch, it'll change your opinion of the game if you're at all a fan of D&D based dungeon crawls.
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Oct 13, 2010 20:39
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zedprime posted:My biggest disapointment about the release of ToEE is that it is $5.99. I was saving my free game for ToEE figuring it was going to be $9.99 and get my free games worth. Now I'm not sure what I want to get for free. If only all problems could be of this magnitude. Wait what. Did I miss something?
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Oct 13, 2010 20:41
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It's like people don't read a page back. Dominick White made a really great post about the fan patch and with it the game is what it's supposed to be. ToEE is great. If you love that buggy rear end vampire game or any troika game, I don't understand how you can not appreciate ToEE.
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Oct 13, 2010 20:41
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MMAgCh posted:So if I am to choose between IWD and ToEE, is it recommended to get the latter? If you like turn based games, get ToEE. If you like real time games, get IWD. Myself, being a turn based junkie, I loved ToEE right out of the box, despite the bugs it had. The combat is just so much fun! I haven't played it since it came out, so I'm excited to give it another go around with this Circle of 8 dealy. I would also like to know if it plays well in a window.
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Oct 13, 2010 20:42
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Dr Snofeld posted:Wait what. Did I miss something?
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Oct 13, 2010 20:44
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sethsez posted:but in this case it's true, the fan patch really does salvage the game. It's true of all of Troikas games, really. Arcanum, Vampire and ToEE were all rushed out and buggy as gently caress. Now they're (for the most part) really polished, although there's not much that can be done to fix up the awkward-feeling combat engine of Arcanum. It's weird. As a developer in life, they were cursed, but ever since they closed up shop, one of the most dedicated fanbases ever seems to have taken over and given them a real legacy. On a tangent, Jagged Alliance 2 has an amazing fan-patch, too, although you really do need to read the documentation on that one, as it has some stuff turned on by default that's meant for expert players. Age of Wonders: Shadow Magic got a fan-patch so good, the official site links to it instead of the developers one. In fact, what fan-patch are you thinking of that is a terrible, game-wrecking travesty?
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Oct 13, 2010 20:46
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Dominic White posted:In fact, what fan-patch are you thinking of that is a terrible, game-wrecking travesty? One of the V:tM fanpatches is pretty stupid, changing a bunch of stuff needlessly. The other is fine. Problem is I can never remember which is which.
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Oct 13, 2010 20:47
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Troika made the best RPGs, they were just never allowed to finish them.
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Oct 13, 2010 20:49
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Dr Snofeld posted:One of the V:tM fanpatches is pretty stupid, changing a bunch of stuff needlessly. The other is fine. Problem is I can never remember which is which. Actually, you're thinking of the same one in both cases. When you install the Bloodlines fan-patch, it asks you whether you want remixed and restored (a lot of unfinished stuff has been recovered from data files), or a pure patch version. Almost everyone seems to agree that the new content is actually pretty good. It just took some time for people to get over that initial 'grrr how dare they change anything' grumpiness that comes with purists anywhere.
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Oct 13, 2010 20:51
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Dominic White posted:Actually, you're thinking of the same one in both cases. When you install the Bloodlines fan-patch, it asks you whether you want remixed and restored (a lot of unfinished stuff has been recovered from data files), or a pure patch version. What was the one I was thinking of that changed the location of lots of weapons and pickups then? The same one?
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Oct 13, 2010 20:52
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Dr Snofeld posted:What was the one I was thinking of that changed the location of lots of weapons and pickups then? The same one? Yep. And if moving around a weapon or two is enough to break a game for you, it's not the patch that has problems.
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Oct 13, 2010 20:54
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Dominic White posted:In fact, what fan-patch are you thinking of that is a terrible, game-wrecking travesty? "Patch" is probably the wrong word, but open any thread for a Bethesda game (for example) and you'll find a whole bunch of required mods that wind up ruining any cohesiveness or pacing the games might have once had. Same thing with the STALKER games, where people recommend mods that make you a superman with a billion guns, a thousand quests at once, and an average of one crash an hour. I also think Jagged Alliance 2 is best played first without the 1.13 patch, but I know I'm in the minority on that. Troika games definitely benefit from fan patches, though.
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Oct 13, 2010 20:56
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last I heard, the VTM:Bloodlines patch had run out of things to do and the author had resorted to randomly changing the locations of characters and items for no good reason, that might have been what he was referring to
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Oct 13, 2010 20:57
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Dominic White posted:It's true of all of Troikas games, really. Arcanum, Vampire and ToEE were all rushed out and buggy as gently caress. Now they're (for the most part) really polished, although there's not much that can be done to fix up the awkward-feeling combat engine of Arcanum. The death knell for Troika was Vampire Bloodlines, Arcanum sold pretty well if I remember correctly, I'm not sure how well ToEE did, but Bloodlines, Jesus. For those of you who don't remember it came out in 2004, and was in development with an early source engine build. Valve wouldn't let a game that used the source engine come out before HL2, and that sounds pretty reasonable, I mean Bloodlines wasn't even close to done by the time HL2 was scheduled to be released. Well, Activision, it turns out, is functionally retarded. They forced them to release it as soon as they could, and "as soon as they could" happened to coincide with the most anticipated game of the last decade, Half Life 2. So thanks to Activision they released a buggy half finished game built on an inferior engine of the most anticipated game on the same day as said game. You really couldn't gently caress up the release of Bloodlines more if you actively tried to. That being said I bought all the Troika games at launch, and really only had problems with ToEE. God, I miss Troika  .
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Oct 13, 2010 21:11
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Bloodlines certainly has its problems, but it's pretty good with the fan patches. If you've ever played the tabletop RPG, then you'll really enjoy it.
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Oct 13, 2010 21:13
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Fag Boy Jim posted:last I heard, the VTM:Bloodlines patch had run out of things to do and the author had resorted to randomly changing the locations of characters and items for no good reason, that might have been what he was referring to I think the fan patches for VtM:B have pretty much always done that. The last time I played the game, I had a patch with the option to go for the essential things or "plus" which was rife with changes like that.
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Oct 13, 2010 21:16
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MMAgCh posted:So if I am to choose between IWD and ToEE, is it recommended to get the latter? They're both dungeon crawls. ToEE's the far more competent dungeon crawler, having much better combat, stronger area design, and a reasonably robust magical item creation system. ToEE is very light on dialog but pretty big on choices. There are probably about nine different endings to the game, including a couple where you join up with the bad guys and one where you basically say "gently caress this" and go home. It's a good game and very replayable. Just make sure you get the Co8 patch.
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Oct 13, 2010 22:03
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TOEE is out and I haven't even installed IWD properly yet. I'm not going to be doing anything productive for a long time now... In any case, just wanted to say a quick thanks for mentioning the Circle of Eight patch. I doubt I would have thought of looking it up beforehand, and I can't complain about bug fixes and new content. With all the fan patches I have for these games, hopefully the only problem I'll have is with the unhealthy amount of D&D I'll be playing in the immediate future.
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Oct 13, 2010 22:07
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Between IWD and TOEE, which is the easiest to just pick up and play (well, after patching)? I don't like having to read a FAQ and min-max my characters, or make saves every five minutes, just to have a shot at actually completing the game.
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Oct 13, 2010 22:12
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Dominic White posted:Yep. And if moving around a weapon or two is enough to break a game for you, it's not the patch that has problems. Never really bothered me personally. Most of that poo poo I just ignored anyway, not like the NPCs were getting moved (I think)
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Oct 13, 2010 22:13
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sethsez posted:I also think Jagged Alliance 2 is best played first without the 1.13 patch, but I know I'm in the minority on that.
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Oct 13, 2010 22:23
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404notfound posted:Between IWD and TOEE, which is the easiest to just pick up and play (well, after patching)? I don't like having to read a FAQ and min-max my characters, or make saves every five minutes, just to have a shot at actually completing the game. They're both absolutely brutal if you don't know what you're doing. That said, you shouldn't have much of a problem getting one of the better endings (maybe not the best one) in ToEE simply by making a party that looks good to you and recruiting Elmo (yeah, the town drunk) to carry you for a few levels. Icewind Dale is just a nonstop slog of sheer torture and quicksave/quickload scumming if you don't know what you're doing when you go in. I have minmaxing in the Infinity Engine games down pretty well, and that game still managed to get on my nerves a few times. Incidentally, archers are sort of terrible in both games. In ToEE they just don't dish out enough damage to be worth a party slot, and in Icewind Dale, everything is either loving immune to arrows or has piercing damage resistance.
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Oct 13, 2010 22:24
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