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Omegaslast posted:I dont think anyone can be stupid enough to think that the mustang v6 is ugly and then say in the same breath that the honda civic si is good looking.
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# ? Oct 14, 2010 09:38 |
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# ? May 23, 2024 15:24 |
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News: Mustang wildly popular, regardless of application, in Automotive Insanity
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# ? Oct 14, 2010 12:56 |
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kimbo305 posted:We'll have to see how much the FT-86 weighs. Power-wise, it's obviously outgunned by both the Genesis and the V6 stang, but maybe it'll be noticeably lighter. I just can't wait for all the guys who've been bemoaning the lack of a light, low powered RWD sports coupe to not buy the thing. The thing is if they do release a low powered rwd coupe they need to price it accordingly. Not in low $20k range which is what is going to happen.
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# ? Oct 14, 2010 13:25 |
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A5H posted:Everyone should be making poo poo light and awesome. You can get through safety without weight. yeah, but have you compared the interior of a new golf versus a golf II? cars today are a lot bigger than they were 20 years ago, and have a lot more in them. all the multimedia crap, fancy seats, complete interior paneling and sound dampening is pretty heavy, but people want it. then there's the 15 airbags, reinforced doors, 18" wheels, etc, etc, etc. all this stuff is in there because people shop for the car with the most features, never mind if they'll ever actually need it.
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# ? Oct 14, 2010 15:24 |
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Coredump posted:The thing is if they do release a low powered rwd coupe they need to price it accordingly. Not in low $20k range which is what is going to happen. Depends on their sales targets and how much they want to scale up this initial model. There's no way in the first year that it can touch the sales of the Mustang, so they'll need to recoup some of the costs of developing this new platform. Even if it's RWD, I don't see it being sold for much cheaper than a Scion tC, which Toyota is probably thinking about replacing.
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# ? Oct 14, 2010 17:43 |
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I can see why some people don't like the looks of the new Mustang but I say you all are blind There won't be any competition from Toyota. I almost guarantee it. IF it makes it to production, it'll be severely watered down, bland, cost more than projected and probably be a Scion (not that it should matter), because it would be a complete contradiction of what Toyota is trying to market the Scion brand as if their sportiest vehicle wore a Toyota badge. travisray2004 fucked around with this message at 19:00 on Oct 14, 2010 |
# ? Oct 14, 2010 18:58 |
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bahahahahaha way to stick to the corporate design language: http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2010/10/first-look-all-new-2011-mazda-bt-50-global-pickup-truck.html
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# ? Oct 14, 2010 20:15 |
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travisray2004 posted:I can see why some people don't like the looks of the new Mustang but I say you all are blind It would really be no different than the cobalt SS being faster than any pontiac G5 with pontiac being the "performance" brand. Toyota markets Scion as a youth-targeted brand, they'd have to be nuts to price it any higher than 25 grand. anyways, CAR NEWS! Ford dropped the prices on the 2011 base models in canada, you can still see the 2010s on the site to compare. Fusion: 21,500 -> 20,000 Taurus: 30,000 -> 28,000 Mustang: 24,500 -> 23,000 ranger: 17,800 -> 14,000 F-150: 24,600 -> 20,000 The higher end is still up there, like the $48,000 SHO and the $50,300 raptor, but on the lower end, it does make interenet cross-shopping interesting, and other companies will no doubt be forced to respond. the fusion is $2600 cheaper than the hyundai sonata, and $4000 cheaper than the chevy malibu. Chevy is still sticking with the "keep the price high and offer huge rebates" thing they can revoke at any time, but it seems ford is certain the dollar is going to stay where it is.
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# ? Oct 14, 2010 20:31 |
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kimbo305 posted:Depends on their sales targets and how much they want to scale up this initial model. There's no way in the first year that it can touch the sales of the Mustang, so they'll need to recoup some of the costs of developing this new platform. Even if it's RWD, I don't see it being sold for much cheaper than a Scion tC, which Toyota is probably thinking about replacing. If Toyota sold it at Scion tC prices, and the thing made an honest 180 hp like the tC and weighed less than 3300lbs I would be so happy.
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# ? Oct 14, 2010 21:00 |
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I don't know if anyone else caught this on Autoline's interview with Scion's head honcho, but Scion sales has completely fallen off a cliff since 2008 and while most other car brands including Toyota have stabilized/recovered somewhat, Scion was still down something like 20%-30% from 2009. Reason? Scion was overwhelmingly marketed to the 18-under 30 demographic. Unemployment among 18-30 year olds in the US is >20%, and the near term prospects for young people in America look awful (see every third D&D thread). It's the same for stuff like the Yaris, while sales of the Camry and Prius are doing OK. If Toyota was GM they should be thinking of shuttering the brand, not adding more products to it. The retro styled cars like Mustang/Camaro will be just fine, since they appeal to both young performance fans and older nostalgics. There are enough frozenphils around to keep up Mustang demand for another decade, while the potential Scion buyer has moved back in with his parents and can barely feed himself. Demographics alone will spell the doom of the Hyundai Genesis and this new Toyota. Throatwarbler fucked around with this message at 00:12 on Oct 15, 2010 |
# ? Oct 14, 2010 23:49 |
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Coredump posted:If Toyota sold it at Scion tC prices, and the thing made an honest 180 hp like the tC and weighed less than 3300lbs I would be so happy. Really..? 3300 lbs is really not that light. My 99 GT weighs less than that and it makes 260hp and 300 ft/lbs of torque. Maybe if the FT86 came out in 1999 at 3000~ lbs with 180hp it would be a good car. now? not so much.
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# ? Oct 15, 2010 18:19 |
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The V6 stang is what, 3500? And packing way more power. I understand that some people will want to a small 2-seater coupe, but if the thing weighs that much, there's a real issue with value. Not from just the stang, either.
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# ? Oct 15, 2010 18:55 |
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Omegaslast posted:Really..? 3300 lbs is really not that light. My 99 GT weighs less than that and it makes 260hp and 300 ft/lbs of torque. Maybe if the FT86 came out in 1999 at 3000~ lbs with 180hp it would be a good car. now? not so much. Yeah but your 99 Gt is 11 years old. I didn't know how low to go with modern cars. We'll say within 200 lbs of a Miata.
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# ? Oct 15, 2010 19:37 |
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Holy poo poo, Ford wasn't kidding. The new Ranger is practically the same size as the F-150 (not really but still...) http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2010/10/first-look-all-new-2011-ford-ranger-t6-global-pickup-truck-debuts.html
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# ? Oct 15, 2010 20:04 |
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Throatwarbler posted:I don't know if anyone else caught this on Autoline's interview with Scion's head honcho, but Scion sales has completely fallen off a cliff since 2008 and while most other car brands including Toyota have stabilized/recovered somewhat, Scion was still down something like 20%-30% from 2009. Reason? Scion was overwhelmingly marketed to the 18-under 30 demographic. Unemployment among 18-30 year olds in the US is >20%, and the near term prospects for young people in America look awful (see every third D&D thread). It's the same for stuff like the Yaris, while sales of the Camry and Prius are doing OK. If Toyota was GM they should be thinking of shuttering the brand, not adding more products to it. Yeah, but I'm pretty sure the biggest demographic actually buying xBs is the 40-50 year old range. Beyond marketing, I'm sure a lot of it has to do with products that aren't really compelling. You can't keep selling on "WE'RE UNIQUE" once you've sold a fuckload and you see your exact car all over the place.
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# ? Oct 15, 2010 20:43 |
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IOwnCalculus posted:Yeah, but I'm pretty sure the biggest demographic actually buying xBs is the 40-50 year old range. The average age of the Scion buyer as of a couple years ago was 36. I think for Toyota on the whole it's high 40s. So while there are definitely plenty of old folks buying them, there is a youth component. In fact, the youth component being unable to buy Scions would explain Throatwarbler's data. So in that sense, it is a mistake or at least ineffective to pigeonhole the FT86 into Scion, given that it would have no more real effect than if it were a Toyota sports car.
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# ? Oct 15, 2010 20:45 |
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Throatwarbler posted:The retro styled cars like Mustang/Camaro will be just fine, since they appeal to both young performance fans and older nostalgics. There are enough frozenphils around to keep up Mustang demand for another decade, while the potential Scion buyer has moved back in with his parents and can barely feed himself. Demographics alone will spell the doom of the Hyundai Genesis and this new Toyota. the Genesis sucks because KOREA,
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# ? Oct 18, 2010 09:57 |
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kimbo305 posted:The average age of the Scion buyer as of a couple years ago was 36. I think for Toyota on the whole it's high 40s. So while there are definitely plenty of old folks buying them, there is a youth component. In fact, the youth component being unable to buy Scions would explain Throatwarbler's data.
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# ? Oct 18, 2010 10:49 |
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Remember back before the new Mustang came out when we couldn't stop posting about the Nissan GTR? The 2012 is out, with the addition of 45 hp and what looks to be the interior of a 1970s Cadillac. I am OK with both of these things.
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# ? Oct 18, 2010 12:44 |
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Throatwarbler posted:
That looks hot. Now get rid of some of the switches and knobs and that awful steering wheel and we will have something.
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# ? Oct 18, 2010 12:51 |
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Throatwarbler posted:
There's also a new "Egoist" version that allows the customer to custom order the vehicle any way they want. Mr. Apollo fucked around with this message at 17:06 on Oct 18, 2010 |
# ? Oct 18, 2010 17:01 |
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grover posted:A good part of their target demographic can't even afford new Scions in a good economy, just used, which doesn't really help Toyota's bottom line. I always assumed it was parents buying kids Scions for college. It didn't seem to target the ricer set hellbent on turboing their Civic someday.
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# ? Oct 18, 2010 17:14 |
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kimbo305 posted:bahahahahaha way to stick to the corporate design language: I saw that last night and I nearly died laughing.
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# ? Oct 18, 2010 17:41 |
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Throatwarbler posted:
Holy poo poo it's like someone told a Nissan engineer to get their hands on a CTS-V to asses how they need to modify the gtr to deal with the competition and someone brought back an el dorado by mistake. Muffinpox fucked around with this message at 19:14 on Oct 18, 2010 |
# ? Oct 18, 2010 19:09 |
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That interior needs some walnut burl and it'll be complete.
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# ? Oct 18, 2010 19:31 |
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I know the "GTR IZ HUEG" thing has been done to death but I was overtaken by one the other day and it's loving massive, it was taller than the Scirocco and naturally it was wider than the Punto that it overtook next but I'd swear it was the same height or taller. It's not even like it's design is appropriate for it's size - other supercars are huge, but their size isn't what stands out, it's the style or design - but the key factor with the GTR is that it's a hoofing great car that looks like it was a normal car blown up by about 20%. I saw one parked next to one of the newer Bentley coupés and the size disparity wasn't as huge as you'd think.
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# ? Oct 18, 2010 19:57 |
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The GTR is basically the same size as a Ford Mustang or Chevrolet Corvette. I guess compared to a Ferarri or Lamborghini it's large, but it's nothing out of the ordinary.
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# ? Oct 18, 2010 21:41 |
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How does that work? A Corvette and a Mustang aren't even close to the same size.
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# ? Oct 19, 2010 02:18 |
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2010 Corvette Height - 48.7" Length - 175.6" Width - 75.9" 2010 Mustang Height - 55.6" Length - 188.1" Width - 73.9" So the Mustang is 7" taller, about a foot longer, and 2" narrower. That seems "pretty close" in size to me. For comparison purposes the GTR fits in between the Mustang and Corvette in terms of size. 2010 GTR Height - 54.0" Length - 183.1" Width - 74.9" Mr. Apollo fucked around with this message at 05:08 on Oct 19, 2010 |
# ? Oct 19, 2010 05:05 |
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Mr. Apollo posted:The GTR is basically the same size as a Ford Mustang or Chevrolet Corvette. I guess compared to a Ferarri or Lamborghini it's large, but it's nothing out of the ordinary. In this country a Ferarri or Lamborghini is considered a "large" car due to width/length or overall footprint (4x4s and that not withstanding). The Mustang is also seen as a bit of a bloater too by comparison.
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# ? Oct 19, 2010 10:12 |
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Mr. Apollo posted:2010 Corvette
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# ? Oct 19, 2010 10:59 |
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echoplex posted:In this country a Ferarri or Lamborghini is considered a "large" car due to width/length or overall footprint (4x4s and that not withstanding). The Mustang is also seen as a bit of a bloater too by comparison. The Gallardo is dimensionally very similar to a VW Golf, other than being quite a bit lower at the roofline, and the Murcielago is only slightly larger. Is the VW Golf a "large" car?
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# ? Oct 19, 2010 11:00 |
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grover posted:You don't think a foot of length and 7" of height are a huge difference? quote:Also, the mustang is about 350lbs heavier than the corvette. The GTR is 650lbs heavier.
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# ? Oct 19, 2010 15:47 |
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Throatwarbler posted:The Gallardo is dimensionally very similar to a VW Golf, other than being quite a bit lower at the roofline, and the Murcielago is only slightly larger. Is the VW Golf a "large" car? While this is true for the Gallardo (the Gallardo is 7" longer, 4" narrower than the Golf, but a lot shorter), it's a lot closer to the Corvette (2" shorter and 1" narrower, and only 3" shorter).
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# ? Oct 19, 2010 16:24 |
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Mr. Apollo posted:No, not really. I'm just throwing my hat in with the "1 foot length and 7" height is a large difference" crowd. I do have a C5 though and it's way too wide.
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# ? Oct 19, 2010 18:06 |
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Mr. Apollo posted:No, not really. You can't be serious. That's roughly the difference between a 3 and 5 series BMW, and those cars handle very differently. I mean, it's not night and day, but it's certainly not insignificant enough to just lump them into the same category.
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# ? Oct 19, 2010 18:11 |
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crossposting from the cellphone pics thread, since this is where the discussion about it all was:Linedance posted:I saw a wild Juke just now... It seemed bigger than I thought it would be, but to be honest I think it's pretty cool looking.
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# ? Oct 19, 2010 18:28 |
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Linedance posted:Juke in the wild
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# ? Oct 19, 2010 18:30 |
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The Third Man posted:You can't be serious. That's roughly the difference between a 3 and 5 series BMW, and those cars handle very differently. I mean, it's not night and day, but it's certainly not insignificant enough to just lump them into the same category.
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# ? Oct 19, 2010 20:50 |
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# ? May 23, 2024 15:24 |
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Mr. Apollo posted:I wasn't talking about handling or anything. The original post commented that the GT-R was a huge car, and I just said it wasn't that big it was about the same size as the Corvette and Mustang which are similiar in size. I don't deny they're different cars with different characteristics, I was only commenting on their exterior dimensions. So a Corolla is a similar size to a Camry? And a Yaris is a similar size to a Corolla?
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# ? Oct 20, 2010 00:29 |