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Crooked Booty posted:Elimination diets don't work in "a few weeks". Two months on a strict diet with no treats is standard, and even then, it takes longer for some dogs. it was from sometime in July until sometime in September. I really don't remember how long it was, just that his vet said it was enough time for it to have made a difference and it didn't. Since nothing else has changed, I don't know WHAT it is, and am trying to draw conclusions based on the weather change. Maybe his skin is more dry because of the cold weather, or something else. I really don't know, which is why I asked. What I don't understand is why half of PI feels the need to be negative in their posts. You guys do realize that the reason people post questions in this forum is because they ARE genuinely concerned for their pets, and despite the fact that a lot of people take lovely care of their animals, that not every one does?
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# ? Oct 22, 2010 14:11 |
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# ? May 24, 2024 10:57 |
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Where do you live? The south and midwest are supposed to be warmer than normal and dryer this year than normal*. Temperature changes are hard on people/pets who aren't sensitive, it sucks a lot worse if you are. Only thing is it wouldn't be their coat, it would just be irritated dry skin. Do you notice any dandruff? *La Nina VV: my skin breaks out , I have to take antibiotics every drat winter and it's probably going to kill me because I'm going to die of a curable disease Kerfuffle fucked around with this message at 18:03 on Oct 22, 2010 |
# ? Oct 22, 2010 17:49 |
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Yeah, an elimination diet usually starts showing improvement within 1-2 months and does need to be rather strict (very limited ingredients and no treats, like CB mentioned, usually with one protein source and no grains). You then start slowly adding back in things to the diet to see if there are any changes. I have a friend's blog post about it that deals with a severely allergic foster she had if you'd be interested. Have you tried adding suppliments to his food, such as a salmon oil? Also, sorry memory escapes, you have a shedding/coat blowing dog? I notice my dog itches more when he's shedding and growing a new coat, but it's different from allergy itching. It's hard to explain until you've seen the obsessive need to scratch and lick that comes from allergies aside from just "hey, my dog is a little itchier than normal." The zoom groom we picked up for him actually helps with that since the rubber nubbins seem to catch on some of the dead hair and massage itchy spots for him (though, tbh, is completely useless to actually try and get rid of undercoat, we just use it as a bath brush and a feel good massage brush.) Also, coat growing/blowing itchies don't last very long and generally a good brushing when it's blowing takes care of the itching for a few days. fake edit: gently caress the south and it's dry dry winters. I feel like I need to bathe in lotion and smear my face with chap stick. paisleyfox fucked around with this message at 18:00 on Oct 22, 2010 |
# ? Oct 22, 2010 17:57 |
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Kerfuffle posted:Where do you live? The south and midwest are supposed to be warmer than normal and dryer this year than normal*. Temperature changes are hard on people/pets who aren't sensitive, it sucks a lot worse if you are. Only thing is it wouldn't be their coat, it would just be irritated dry skin. Do you notice any dandruff? I live in NC. I haven't noticed any dandruff, but I guess it would be harder to notice since he's a mostly white dog and our furniture is mostly white. On his bed though, which is dark colored, there is no dandruff. He is scratching in places where he usually doesn't scratch--his belly, his legs mostly. When its just allergies he scratches his face a lot and licks his legs, but that's about it. Now he'll get into my bed and just rub himself all over the comforter, as if alleviating it somewhat. I think I may need a new vet. Every time he tells me something it seems to contradict things I've heard from other places (emergency vet, internet, etc). He's kind of old school (he's in his 70s, doesn't have a lot of modern technology in his office), but I never thought of it as being a bad thing. When I talked to him about the diet switch to see if it would help Jack's allergies, he said it didn't matter if Jack had treats while on the diet...I don't know, it makes SENSE that he wouldn't get treats, but the vet was so convinced it's not to do with food, that it's something else. Jack's coat has doubled in size in the past 2 weeks. It really is a major change in a short amount of time, and the scratching just seems to have come along with it.
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# ? Oct 22, 2010 20:13 |
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I'm having issues with Major in the car and over the 3 months I've had him and worked on it it just seems to be getting worse. It started with just with whining on two lane streets and a little bit on the freeway. I gave him bully sticks to distract him for the 15 minutes it takes to get to the freeway and then treated him for calm, quiet behavior and gradually increased the time between treats. I got up to about 2 minutes of quiet at a time before things started going downhill. It progressed to more, louder whining paired with shrieking and this noise that sounds like someone with emphysema screaming for help with frantic barking when cars passed. Now he tries to lunge at any car he sees while in the car. He has to be in a crate complete covered or he hits the window so hard when any car comes toward us that I'm afraid he's going to hurt himself. He also barks for the first 15 minutes of a ride and then randomly throughout. Its a frantic, yappy bark not his overexcited bark. He still whines or screams almost the whole time. This is clearly an anxious behavior. He's whale-eyed, tight faced, and rapidly panting the whole time. Major loves the idea of car rides and will drag me to the car if he thinks we're going for a ride its just the actually riding that's the problem. He doesn't lunge at cars when we're walking near the road, just in the car. When we finally get where we're going it takes about 20 minutes of focus work and cleaning up gushy poos before we can focus on class or take a hike or whatever. I've tried treating during any second of quiet during a ride, just hanging out in the car and treating for calm, treating for cars passing us while just sitting in a parking lot, treating for cars passing us standing in the yard, thundershirt/TTouch wraps, and DAP diffusers. I've talked to my trainer and she doesn't have any more ideas so I'm not sure if a private session would help. Sorry about the novel. Does anyone have any ideas that I've missed or is it time to talk to the vet about some doggy xanax? I feel bad doping him up to go do fun things but as it is I'm just avoiding taking him places. He's a 2-3 year old hunting dog sort of mix that I adopted 3 months ago if that helps.
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# ? Oct 25, 2010 00:22 |
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Is hair loss a common part of aging in dogs? My beloved, elderly beagle was missing hair around his muzzle and a nickel-sized patch on his left ear. My parents insist it's a normal part of aging and the vet didn't say anything when he was in a few weeks before, so things must be okay. Still, it just seems odd.
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# ? Oct 25, 2010 04:29 |
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Instant Jellyfish posted:I'm having issues with Major in the car and over the 3 months I've had him and worked on it it just seems to be getting worse. It started with just with whining on two lane streets and a little bit on the freeway. I gave him bully sticks to distract him for the 15 minutes it takes to get to the freeway and then treated him for calm, quiet behavior and gradually increased the time between treats. I got up to about 2 minutes of quiet at a time before things started going downhill. Heh, sounds a little like Koji. He never used to be this bad, but he slowly builds himself up into a panic attack when we're in the car, and if he's not belted in a certain way (or in the crate), chances are he'll poo in my car. And when we get to where we are going, he'll do it again. Luckily he's only gone twice in my car, but even so! He just works himself up SO MUCH he gives himself an anxiety attack even though he's totally stoked to be in the car and go to the park or the store or a friends' house. I say just keep working on it. Go for a ride around the block, then go inside. Once you think he's able to handle that, go a little longer. Does he act differently after being out on the trip (so, in the car on the way home). When Koji is tired, he doesn't give a flying and will usually sleep in the car, saving us from another round of panting so hard he sounds asthmatic and poo poo roulette.
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# ? Oct 25, 2010 15:05 |
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He's usually a bit better on the way home. There's less frantic barking the whole time and he doesn't have the runs when we get out but he still does a lot of whining and when he's not doing that I can hear him panting really heavily. I used to use a car harness but he would get tangled and try to gnaw the harness/his foot off like a trapped fox. He liked being able to sniff out the window but its not worth him hurting himself either on the harness or hitting the window going after cars. I'm glad I'm not the only one having this problem. I'm stocking up on his favorite chewy things (dehydrated rabbit feet, yum!) and I'll just keep chipping away at it. I have to board him at the vet while I'm off picking up some sheep this week so I'll talk to them then about maybe finding something to keep him under threshold while we're working on it. Someone on a different board suggested melatonin so we'll see what the vet says.
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# ? Oct 25, 2010 15:12 |
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My cat is starting to have some behavioral issues that I'm not sure how to deal with. She'll come and curl up on my chest or right next to me and start purring. I'll scratch her head for a bit and everything is great. Then she'll snap and start biting my hand and attacking me. If she wanted me to stop before, she'd nip me, lightly, once to let me know. But now she's getting really aggressive and full on attacking my hand repeatedly. Other than throwing her off the bed, what can I do to stop this and why would she suddenly start being such a little jerk?
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# ? Oct 25, 2010 16:05 |
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Just moved into a new house with hardwood floors. As far as I know, neither cat has ever seen a hardwood floor, so it's a new experience for them. The biggest hurdle, however, was the creaking of one of the upstairs rooms. Unfortunately, that was the room we kept them in while we were moving, and I think it just about terrified them. One was hiding in the closet and the other wouldn't get out of the cat carrier, and would look even more scared when we approached. Once I realized it was the creaking that they were scared of, I dragged them downstairs where they seemed a lot more comfortable. They're slowly getting used to the whole situation, but mostly stay downstairs to hide from the horrifying creaky floor monster that lives upstairs. I'm hoping they'll be fine with it before too long, and once everything's in place, we shouldn't have as much echo, which makes the creaking even louder. Has anyone else had similar experiences with hardwood/creaky floors? I've never seen them so terrified in my life, and it would've almost been funny if it weren't so terribly heart breaking.
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# ? Oct 25, 2010 17:00 |
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My spayed cat was "in heat" last week. It was great...lots of howling, obnoxious behavior, etc. Eventually she ran out of our apartment (she's an inside cat) and promptly got mauled or raped or something by some local hardcore outside cats. I thought ter injuries from her asskicking were pretty minor, just a cut on her ear and a cut on a foot toe pad. However, a couple of days later she still was limping and her toe was infected, so I took her to the vet. He confirmed it was infected, gave me antibiotics, and told me to massage the foot with a warm rag and dunk it in diluted hydrogen peroxide a couple of times a day. He said after a few days she'd be fine, which was a relief as I was leaving town on Monday. I did this three days in a row, and she still can't put any weight on the foot. I'm out of town now, and she's stuck there by herself until Thursday unless I go way the hell out of my way to go back. I'm terrified that I'll get back and she'll be dead or have a rotting foot. Any thoughts on this situation? Also, the vet said we could do "exploratory surgery" to find out if there was any leftover ovarian tissue that put her "in heat", any experience with this?
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# ? Oct 25, 2010 17:05 |
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I know cats are cool with being left alone a little while, but 3 or 4 days seems like a lot. Cats need fresh water and litterbox scooping and stuff. I would just be paranoid that any drat thing could happen so I'd want someone to check in on them, even if everything else was taken care of. Anyway, is there anyone who could go in and do it for you, someone with a key to your house? A neighbor or family member? Antibiotics don't work unless you are able to give them the entire prescribed time. You said he gave you antibiotics, how long were you supposed to give them for? If you were supposed to give them for a week and left town after 3 days, it's probably still going to be infected when you get back.
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# ? Oct 25, 2010 18:16 |
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bewbies posted:My spayed cat was "in heat" last week. It was great...lots of howling, obnoxious behavior, etc. Eventually she ran out of our apartment (she's an inside cat) and promptly got mauled or raped or something by some local hardcore outside cats. As for the ovarian remnants, a lot of vets prefer to send out a blood test first which will tell them what her hormone levels are like and give them a good idea of whether or not there is a bit of ovary left. If the vet you're currently seeing is the one who spayed her the first time, I would respectfully suggest to them that they should foot the bill for correcting their previous surgery.
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# ? Oct 25, 2010 19:00 |
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She'll spend 3-4 nights at home alone once a month or so, she does fine with that. She has a giant fresh water tank deal and a couple of litter boxes so she doesn't mind me being gone. However, the antibiotic thing has me worried. It was supposed to be a weeklong dosage, we've done 3 days worth (Fri/Sat/Sun) so far. I won't be able to get back tonight regardless, but I can probably go tomorrow. Is it super critical to get her the dosage? Since I'm missing today, is it even worth going back tomorrow? Should I just go back to the vet Thursday and start again?
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# ? Oct 25, 2010 19:56 |
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I've made an appointment at the vet for my cat, who peed on our white couch, but it's not until Thursday. This is probably a ridiculous question, but is there any way to get her to pee in the litter box until then?
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# ? Oct 25, 2010 20:12 |
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Emasculatrix posted:I've made an appointment at the vet for my cat, who peed on our white couch, but it's not until Thursday. This is probably a ridiculous question, but is there any way to get her to pee in the litter box until then? You can try using Cat Attract litter, but if there's an underlying medical issue that's causing her to go outside the box, it's going to be hit-or-miss.
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# ? Oct 26, 2010 00:58 |
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Emasculatrix posted:I've made an appointment at the vet for my cat, who peed on our white couch, but it's not until Thursday. This is probably a ridiculous question, but is there any way to get her to pee in the litter box until then? Also, make sure you spray the spot where she peed with Nature's Miracle or another cleaner made to work on pet stains. They have particular enzymatic elements that make it so the cat doesn't smell "pee place " and pee there again. Have you had any changes in your household lately? New pet? New household member? Move? Furniture rearrangement? Any of these could trigger that kind of behavior. So could a too dirty litterbox, or a kind of litter she's not used to. In the end though, it could also be a medical issue, so make sure you get her fully tested when you go to the vet.
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# ? Oct 26, 2010 14:05 |
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Alright, goons. I used the search function to see if this has been addressed, but didn't have any luck. Hopefully I'm not repeating a question already asked. My little 1 year-old mutt, Panini, has been engaging in a couple of... irritating and weird activities. 1) She licks the bed. Sometimes she'll lick the carpet, as well. Does my apartment taste like bacon? 2) She is constantly sniffing my cat's butt. I have two cats, but she only goes after one of them. Just sniff sniff sniffs. Then she might try to groom the cat. The cat will put up with it for a minute or two, then hiss and make like she's going to smack the dog. Panini will usually take the hint and back off, but a minute later she's right back in that booty. Why does she keep doing this? Is there something wrong with the cat that Panini knows about?
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# ? Oct 26, 2010 18:15 |
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Dogs are gross.
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# ? Oct 26, 2010 19:23 |
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My dog licked the bed a lot. We figured out he did it only when it was really hot and my husband and I were sweating. So we just washed the sheets a lot more often and the licking more or less stopped. He'll sometimes still lick the carpet, but there's a lot of poo poo he grinds down in there, so he probably just came across something he crumbled in there a while back. But yes, dogs are gross.
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# ? Oct 26, 2010 19:59 |
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What's the basis for this pattycaking behavior?: http://www.viddler.com/explore/cheezburger/videos/767/
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# ? Oct 26, 2010 20:53 |
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Eggplant Wizard posted:Also, make sure you spray the spot where she peed with Nature's Miracle or another cleaner made to work on pet stains. They have particular enzymatic elements that make it so the cat doesn't smell "pee place " and pee there again. No changes to the household, and she's not picky about litter or anything (ie we put the box in a corner and neglect it ), so I'm guessing it's a medical issue. ALTHOUGH... my boyfriend said he saw her go into the litter box today, so maybe she was just scared of it for a while after the dog tipped it over.
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# ? Oct 27, 2010 05:39 |
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Miss Squid posted:I have a male cat about a year old, Stevie King. We adopted another male cat a few weeks ago, and they get along great. One weird thing though, Stevie keeps trying to make it with Dexter. He'll get up on Dexter's back, bite down on his neck and make strange mewling noises. Stevie was neutered about six months ago, and Dexters neutered too. Stevie also does a little "sexy" dance sometimes, where he kneads his paws, and his butt hovers above the bed and he mewls and walks in cicles. He's tried to hump my arm once or twice while doing this dance.
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# ? Oct 27, 2010 09:15 |
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I just found out from my mum that one of our cats has been put down. The one left behind is nearly 18, but they're from the same litter so they've been together up until now. Is my cat going to be okay without her brother? My mum's pretty adamant she doesn't want to get another cat, so that's not an option. She's also been put on a new eight pills a day course (for a heart murmur), so any tips with that would be helpful. Also, apparently the dog's been wandering around the house looking for him and whining. I don't get it; she always hated the drooling old guy. edit: Never mind, her condition's degraded suddenly overnight. She's being put down today Pyrotoad fucked around with this message at 15:02 on Oct 29, 2010 |
# ? Oct 27, 2010 15:41 |
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I need some help. My cat, Tabitha, won't eat wet food. I've read about how it's good for cats to get some wet food in their diet because they don't have a very strong thirst drive. Since my cat was recently diagnosed with a potential food allergy, I figured we could introduce some wet food into her diet along with a new dry food. The darn thing just won't eat any wet food, though. So far I've tried a few different flavors of BFF, Weruva, Evo, and Merrick's. I have tried it by itself in her food bowl (she just looks at it and runs away) and mixed in with her dry food (she picks out the dry food that hasn't touched the wet). I've heard from numerous feed store workers and cat owners that Brand X is kitty crack; just open a can and she'll dive right in! So far my cat has not cooperated. She was originally my sister's cat and from talking with my sister, apparently she was taken from her mother very young. My sister "had to teach her how to eat" when she was little. I have no idea what this entails, but once I do I'll post here. Anyway, Tabitha grew up eating some form of dry Purina forever until I came across this thread a year or so ago. I slowly swapped her over to Evo dry Chicken & Turkey. Those are the only foods she has eaten on a regular basis her entire life, and neither of them were wet. Does she just not know that the wet chunks of fish and beef and duck are food? Luckily, she's started to eat the new dry food, so I don't have to constantly worry about her going too long without eating. I'd still like to know of some way to try and convince her to try eating some wet food, though. That or someone can chime in and tell me that everything I've read recently about wet food being good is a lie.
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# ? Oct 29, 2010 05:58 |
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What food allergy does she have? Typically if a cat has a food allergy, they'll get z/d wet and dry or some sort of other novel protein. z/d wet is like meat jello and I've only ever had one cat that would eat it. It's the weirdest consistency...I wouldn't eat it either. I wouldn't get too worked up about it. As long as she's eating the dry and drinking plenty of water, then it shouldn't be a problem.
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# ? Oct 29, 2010 08:45 |
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We're not sure what allergy she has. The vet suggested to just take her off of the Evo chicken & turkey and try a novel protein, so I got her Taste of the Wild "canyon river". If the novel protein didn't work, the vet said to try the z/d. If none of that wound up working, she said it might not be a food allergy--it could be a seasonal thing or my cat might just be crazy and need to be put on kitty prozac. This all came about because my cat has started chewing the fur off of her tail. It's not a pretty sight.
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# ? Oct 29, 2010 11:36 |
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Natural Balance makes limited protein diets that are also helpful in working through food allergies, if you need to try another food. There are far more knowledgeable people on the subject, but I believe that it often takes months to find what works best for an animal with a food allergy.
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# ? Oct 29, 2010 12:17 |
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Yeah, it sounds like a really long process. The vet said it could take 8-12 weeks after changing the food before we would be able to decide if the new food was helping or not. It's kind of frustrating because we don't even know if that's the cause of her chewing off her hair. It could be a seasonal allergy, stress, or neurosis. I do think I'll be getting an allergy test done for my cat before we move onto the kitty prozac though. The idea of having to give my cat a pill every day for the rest of her life is traumatizing to both of us.
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# ? Oct 29, 2010 14:14 |
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I had a cat die of cancer about 4 months ago and she had FeLV. I am now looking to adopt another cat from a local rescue group. Will the rescue group have any issues or concerns with bringing a new cat into an environment that once had an FeLV cat? We've of course washed all the water and food dishes that she ever used.
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# ? Oct 30, 2010 02:18 |
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r. bean posted:I had a cat die of cancer about 4 months ago and she had FeLV. I am now looking to adopt another cat from a local rescue group. Will the rescue group have any issues or concerns with bringing a new cat into an environment that once had an FeLV cat? We've of course washed all the water and food dishes that she ever used. They should be fine with it. FeLV doesn't live very well in the environment (rule of thumb is typically 48 hours) and is inactivated by most disinfectants and regular soap and water. If the old food/water dishes were plastic I'd probably toss them due to microscratching, but if they're metal you're fine.
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# ? Oct 30, 2010 02:39 |
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I feel like I'm only ever asking stupid questions in this thread, but here's another: My dog (22 lb corgi) managed to get out of his crate and eat about 1/3 of a Hershey's Cookies and Cream bar (white chocolate + chocolate chips). Is this any worse than regular chocolate and/or do we need to take him to the vet, or will he just be unhappy in the tummy for a day?
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# ? Oct 30, 2010 02:58 |
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six_wings posted:I feel like I'm only ever asking stupid questions in this thread, but here's another: He'll probably get sick from all the sugar and have some gross poops. White chocolate isn't chocolate at all, and the chocolate chips are barely "chocolate" if I remember, so he's probably in the clear. Give him some plain chicken and rice with some (also plain) yogurt next time you feed him. You could give him yogurt now though.
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# ? Oct 30, 2010 03:02 |
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Kerfuffle posted:He'll probably get sick from all the sugar and have some gross poops. White chocolate isn't chocolate at all, and the chocolate chips are barely "chocolate" if I remember, so he's probably in the clear. Give him some plain chicken and rice with some (also plain) yogurt next time you feed him. You could give him yogurt now though. Thanks for the quick answer, I (and my Houdini dog who will be getting a studier crate ASAP) appreciate it.
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# ? Oct 30, 2010 04:04 |
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There's something going on with one of our dog's back feet. My sister says it 'looks like he's grown an extra paw pad' - it's a small black lump growing out of the fur on the inner side of his ankle, around the same place as the dew claw on his front foot. He's not lame but he's reluctant to let me touch it, and he's not normally like that about his feet so I think it's sore. It's rounded, has the same texture/colour as the skin of his pads, very soft/squidgy to the touch and seems narrowly attached to the skin, like a skin tag or something. (Do dogs get skin tags?) The thing is, we just lost our only source of income so it's going to be difficult to talk Mum into taking him to the vet. Anyone know what this could be? He's a 9 year old Border Collie with no other health problems. I tried Google but can't find anything that looks similar.
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# ? Oct 30, 2010 12:10 |
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My husband and I are going back and forth between two cities, and while we are away my parents watch our cats. Today my Mom woke up to blood all over the house. My poor 11 month old baby is peeing blood. She took him to the vet. He gave him prescription food and she came home and put him in a huge crate (like large dog sized) with a blanket and his own litter box, water, and the c/d. She uses a different litter than we do. We always had our cats using World's Best. He gave him a shot and some pills to start tomorrow. The labs will not be back until Tuesday (they are closed Mondays). The Vet said to take him off the blue buffalo because that's probably it, but I think it's the litter. He's always been on blue buffalo, and to be honest it's the only food we've given him that doesn't give him the runs. We I adopted him, he was 3 months old and had been returned twice already for his terrible runny poop (and the fact that when it's runny he gets it on his foot and tracks it everywhere). I feel absolutely terrible. I don't know why I feel so bad. My Mom has everything under control but I feel like the worst thing in the world just happened and I wasn't here to take care of him. My Mom is pretty smart- this happened this morning and she didn't tell me until I walked into the door at 7PM. That's a good thing, because I would have been freaking out the whole day and been worried sick until I got here. It just sucks to know he's in pain. Is there anything I can do for him other than what we're already doing? I think I feel so terrible because we bought the litter they use for them before we left, but I didn't switch it out because the litter that was in there was fresh and I didn't want to waste it. And I missed him sooooo much this week and I kept telling my husband how I can't wait to come home and give him a big hug and squeeze him until he purrs and now I can only pet him and cry.
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# ? Oct 31, 2010 02:27 |
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Urinary problems can crop up at any time. I don't think I've ever heard of litter having to do anything with peeing blood. Peeing blood is a sign of UTIs in people, but I'm not sure about cats. Your vet is probably right, switch him to the prescription food. He might have to stay on it for the rest of his life if problems keep coming up.
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# ? Oct 31, 2010 02:47 |
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Anyone have any good websites for cheap dog crates? I'd either like to find a large and a puppy sized airline-type crate, or I'd settle for a large metal one with a divider, but only as a last resort. Don't know where to start looking!
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# ? Oct 31, 2010 21:18 |
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WolfensteinBag posted:Anyone have any good websites for cheap dog crates? I'd either like to find a large and a puppy sized airline-type crate, or I'd settle for a large metal one with a divider, but only as a last resort. Don't know where to start looking! I don't know about cheap, but the prices seemed reasonable enough and I cannot recommend this brand enough. It only took brick bedding and some zip ties to make it Moxie-proof and she is houdini. http://www.kennel-aire.com/index.htm here's another one to some of their products http://www.allpetfurniture.com/Kennel-Aire-C66606.html?refid=G9962.kennel+aire+dog+crates&gclid=CMPepur3_aQCFQK87QodO1EfiA
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# ? Oct 31, 2010 21:26 |
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# ? May 24, 2024 10:57 |
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WolfensteinBag posted:Anyone have any good websites for cheap dog crates? I'd either like to find a large and a puppy sized airline-type crate, or I'd settle for a large metal one with a divider, but only as a last resort. Don't know where to start looking! Depending on where you are, you might just try looking in some secondhand stores. Apparently they show up there a lot. Alternatively, craigslist etc.
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# ? Oct 31, 2010 21:52 |