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Stop fucked around with this message at 05:47 on Jan 30, 2013 |
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Oct 28, 2010 04:34
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I do not think this has been posted: http://blogs.umass.edu/prelaw/files/2010/10/Matasaroct2010.pdf Does the Current Economic Model of Legal Education Work for Law Schools, Law Firms (or Anyone Else)? By Richard A. Matasar, Dean of New York Law School Opening graf: quote:I was asked to write about the following question: “Does the current economic model of legal education work for law schools? Or law firms?” The better ques- tion is, however, “Does the current economic model of legal education work for law schools, law firms (or any- one else)?”, which moves the discussion from what about me (lawyer, law professor, law student) to what about our clients and the public.
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Oct 28, 2010 04:44
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Lilosh posted:I, and several others, reposted this on facebook book with "THIS IS WHAT WE'VE BEEN TRYING TO TELL YOU" comments. aren't you a 1l
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Oct 28, 2010 10:54
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Lilosh posted:I, and several others, reposted this on facebook book with "THIS IS WHAT WE'VE BEEN TRYING TO TELL YOU" comments. And so you went because...? Or do you think that being a 1L at Cornell makes you superior?
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Oct 28, 2010 13:30
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Now that I officially struck out of EIW, my future law degree is officially a useless graduate degree.
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Oct 28, 2010 14:14
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Petey posted:I do not think this has been posted: That's a rather obnoxious article. I love how he assumes students are "living like lawyers" while they're in school and implicitly criticizes them for living away from home and having cars. Many people don't have good schools where they grew up and most places in this country require a car to get around and do economically sound things like buying groceries and maybe working part time to help subsidize your education. He's also completely underestimating law students' capacity for self-delusion in thinking that everyone is making an educated judgment call when they are matriculating. They should be weighing the pros and cons objectively, but most of them they are not necessarily doing so. fougera posted:Now that I officially struck out of EIW, my future law degree is officially a useless graduate degree. What's EIW?
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Oct 28, 2010 14:37
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TyChan posted:What's EIW? European Immunization Week. Fougera's autistic now. Drag.
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Oct 28, 2010 14:53
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Welp got a PMF nomination, only 18 million steps between this and a possible 2-year government job. Seriously this poo poo is crazy. Un-proctored online assessment? OK, that's not that bad. Proctored in-person assessment? Ok this is getting kinda...day long assessment that includes individual presentations, group work, and interviews? Seriously?
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Oct 28, 2010 15:20
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Gadamer posted:And so you went because...? Or do you think that being a 1L at Cornell makes you superior? He's the special snowflake that will get the one job available upon graduation.
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Oct 28, 2010 15:26
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J Miracle posted:Proctored in-person assessment? Ok this is getting kinda...day long assessment that includes individual presentations, group work, and interviews? Seriously? Wait what? I thought this was the same thing. The worst part is I'm pretty sure they added everything above and beyond the online examination this year, so there's really no preparing for it. Pretty aggravating.
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Oct 28, 2010 15:45
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sigmachiev posted:Building my schedule and I'm looking for some classes that'll up my stock for clerkships. Besides Federal Courts is there anything I should be making sure I get on my transcript come time to apply? Administrative law is crucial. Beyond that, things you'd find useful are courses like Criminal Procedure, Antitrust, and Employment Law. Basically, think of all the poo poo that clogs the federal courts, and take that.
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Oct 28, 2010 16:29
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I finally found a use for the Michigan Career Services Office! they're like the only place in the building you can get Kleenexes anymore (the girl at the reading room desk told me their kleenex budget got cut, wtf) so every few days I stop in and take like half a box thanks guys, you're doing top-notch work
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Oct 28, 2010 17:40
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prussian advisor posted:Wait what? I thought this was the same thing. I was under the impression it was all done on the same day but not the same thing, like you did basically an exam then a presentation then a group project then interview, plus there's a job fair in there somewhere I don't know. I'm just gonna plod along and let them tell me what to do, that's the leadership quality they're looking for I'm sure.
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Oct 28, 2010 17:45
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How do you guys feel about putting summaries of your points at the beginning of a motion? Austin has a weird-rear end rotating docket where that's almost completely necessary but I'm wondering if I should do it for other counties.
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Oct 28, 2010 17:47
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J Miracle posted:I was under the impression it was all done on the same day but not the same thing, like you did basically an exam then a presentation then a group project then interview, plus there's a job fair in there somewhere I don't know. I'm just gonna plod along and let them tell me what to do, that's the leadership quality they're looking for I'm sure. I'm just wondering, are you still #1 in your class at MSU (or did I remember that completely incorrectly)? If you are I think it should be noted more so that potential law stupids don't just write you off as another schlub at a TTT from whom they don't need to learn.
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Oct 28, 2010 18:06
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sigmachiev posted:Building my schedule and I'm looking for some classes that'll up my stock for clerkships. Besides Federal Courts is there anything I should be making sure I get on my transcript come time to apply? Any class you enjoy and can get As in. A 4.0 is more important than "oh hey this guy took in Wills and Trusts!" CaptainScraps posted:How do you guys feel about putting summaries of your points at the beginning of a motion? I love it when I get motions with a summary of the points. Or even a table of contents. In conclusion, organization is important.
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Oct 28, 2010 18:13
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BigHead posted:I love it when I get motions with a summary of the points. Or even a table of contents. In conclusion, organization is important. If it's more than 15 pages, it gets a table of contents and a table of authorities. And from now on, if it's less than 15, it gets a summary of points. Woo.
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Oct 28, 2010 18:22
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CaptainScraps posted:How do you guys feel about putting summaries of your points at the beginning of a motion? I think they're great, and judges appreciate them, too.
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Oct 28, 2010 18:26
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 Passed the Alaska bar This year had the highest passage rate ever at a whopping 74%.
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Oct 28, 2010 18:34
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Thanks for the help Mookie and BigHead.
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Oct 28, 2010 18:48
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BigHead posted:
Heading up to Barrow to take Ainsley's job out from under him?
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Oct 28, 2010 19:16
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CO Lawgoons: What is the dealio with this 6 hour professionalism course in order to practice? Is it like the bar and only done in Denver? And how many of my hard earned dollars is it? Man I'm tired of paying for my husband to take bar exams. Someone shoot me.
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Oct 28, 2010 19:45
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CaptainScraps posted:How do you guys feel about putting summaries of your points at the beginning of a motion? My motions go (1) heading, (2) paragraph stating what I want, (3) page or so of points outlining important dates and a few facts/cases, (4) sentence or two repeating my demand. Then you put in all the additional papers relating to service and whatnot.
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Oct 28, 2010 20:17
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BigHead posted:
NY why are you so slow? Tell me baby please cause I need to know.
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Oct 28, 2010 21:01
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Soothing Vapors posted:I finally found a use for the Michigan Career Services Office! Is that were the 3Ls go to cry? In other news, I have had the best month of my career this October. Seven new clients this week alone.
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Oct 28, 2010 21:05
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(not a lawyer) I want to look up a recent arbitration ruling. Are those published in any online database? State-specific maybe?
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Oct 28, 2010 21:48
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BigHead posted:
Haha awesome. I worked as an intern for the Alaska Public Defender Agency this summer. What are your plans?
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Oct 28, 2010 21:53
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Kim Jong Il posted:(not a lawyer) Should probably be in the Legal Questions Megathread. What state? What kind of arbitration?
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Oct 28, 2010 21:57
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Petey posted:I do not think this has been posted: He's the Dean of NYLS and president of a private student loan group (The ironically named Access Group). I have no idea what he wrote about but the answer is that people like him and dumb law students like me are responsible for why things suck. edit: Law school logic is analogous to my abortion is the only moral abortion Omerta fucked around with this message at 22:10 on Oct 28, 2010 |
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Oct 28, 2010 22:06
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J Miracle posted:I was under the impression it was all done on the same day but not the same thing, like you did basically an exam then a presentation then a group project then interview, plus there's a job fair in there somewhere I don't know. I'm just gonna plod along and let them tell me what to do, that's the leadership quality they're looking for I'm sure. It's not done on the same day. You have to pass the online assessment in order to qualify as a "semi-finalist" which is the in-person presentation. After that you go to the job fair. Oh yea, being a finalist doesn't guarantee that you will get a job. https://www.pmf.opm.gov/FinalistSortBySchool.aspx
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Oct 28, 2010 22:08
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joat mon posted:Should probably be in the Legal Questions Megathread. Sorry, I will.
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Oct 28, 2010 22:32
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sigmachiev posted:Thanks for the help Mookie and BigHead. I have the Chemerinsky Federal Jurisdiction supplement which I have literally never used. Let me know if you're interested in it. $40 bucks shipped?
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Oct 28, 2010 23:00
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calmasahinducow posted:Haha awesome. I worked as an intern for the Alaska Public Defender Agency this summer. What are your plans? Well my initial plans were to help save some walrii and polar bears, then I was thinking of doing Russian Human Rights law to save them from the communists. But now I think I'll do some Alaska Eskimo law, since they're so disadvantaged.
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Oct 28, 2010 23:23
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I just accepted a DOJ internship for the summer... yay for a (temporary) job!  P.S. Thanks to everyone who e-mailed me about participating in the sociology study.
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Oct 29, 2010 01:34
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JohnnyTreachery posted:aren't you a 1l Gadamer posted:And so you went because...? Or do you think that being a 1L at Cornell makes you superior? Defleshed posted:He's the special snowflake that will get the one job available upon graduation. I had a long reply typed out, explaining myself and trying to justify why I'm here. Then I realized that those types of replies never really end well in these threads. Instead I deleted it and I'll just quip that I'm just not bright enough to cut my losses and quit. I'm entering into a lovely situation with eyes wide open. Maybe guam or the northern part of alaska will hire me or I can share a trash can with atlas of bugs.
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Oct 29, 2010 03:33
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I knows its been covered some in this thread, but if I can ask again- Whats the current situation/position regarding the American Bar Association and this legal job/law school fiasco? It seems surely evident to me its supposed to the ABA's job to act in the legal profession, law students (current and prospective) and societies interests to avert these types of situation we have with far too many law schools and such. Maybe Im wrong in my understand of what their role is, but surely a huge amount of burden an should be placed at that ABA's feet for taking on some responsibility for this problem? Lemonus fucked around with this message at 03:50 on Oct 29, 2010 |
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Oct 29, 2010 03:47
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Grammar Fascist posted:I just accepted a DOJ internship for the summer... yay for a (temporary) job! You son of a bitch, you took my spot! (just kidding, I didn't even get an interview) Almost November and still no job. At least Black Ops comes out in a couple of weeks.
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Oct 29, 2010 03:49
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Lemonus posted:Whats the current situation/position regarding the American Bar Association and this legal job/law school fiasco? More law schools pay them money More lawyers pay them money We need to pull the accreditation of all law schools under T2
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Oct 29, 2010 04:18
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what we need is some sort of agreement to restrain the trade in legal education
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Oct 29, 2010 04:30
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nm posted:Money money money! Is there some way to revoke the ABA's mandate? Does it actually serve the interests of Lawyers, Law students and society at all beyond itself? I mean honestly whats with America sometimes. There always seems to be massive amounts of people in a moral frenzy easily over the thought of dudes sticking dicks in other dudes butts (which seems stupid and trivial moral outrage) but we can't get the same moral outrage over the complete and utter failure of the ABA to represent the interests it claims to represent when it comes to this issue of accreditation and law school glut with apparently huge empirical consequences in terms of people stuck in debt, faith in the legal system and legal education and society's view at large of lawyers and the role of legal education. This poo poo appears to be having massive consequences. I mean this is from Wikipedia: "In response, ABA President Lamm told the Newark Star-Ledger that "Law students ought to look at the numbers and envision how their future might be before going to law school, not after." What a jerk-off. What the hell is supposed to be your job? Oh wait. ( From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Bar_Association ) Goal 1: Serve our members. (Objective: Provide benefits, programs and services which promote members’ professional growth and quality of life.) Goal 2: Improve our profession. (Objectives: 1) Promote the highest quality legal education; 2) Promote competence, ethical conduct and professionalism; 3) Promote pro bono and public service by the legal profession.) Goal 3: Eliminate bias and enhance diversity. (Objectives: 1) Promote full and equal participation in the association, our profession, and the justice system by all persons; 2) Eliminate bias in the legal profession and the justice system.) Goal 4: Advance the rule of law. (Objectives: 1) Increase public understanding of and respect for the rule of law, the legal process, and the role of the legal profession at home and throughout the world; 2) Hold governments accountable under law; 3) Work for just laws, including human rights, and a fair legal process; 4)Assure meaningful access to justice for all persons; and 5) Preserve the independence of the legal profession and the judiciary.) Maybe Im just a jerk but to more adequately serve your members, promote the highest quality legal education, help eliminate bias in the legal profession and increase public understanding and respect for the legal proffession it might involve a certain level of exclusion (or is that elitism hurr) in terms of having fewer schools or accrediting fewer schools. There will always be a certain level of order/prestige and competition between schools and what schools are better but when it seems to become apparent you have these schools labelled "Third Tier Trash" and such that maybe poo poo needs to happen on your watch if your association stands for anything but itself. Talking about full and equal participation, what the hell do you call the situation currently? Its like we have *Legal Education* and then legal-education. Its probably joked about in backrooms at the ABA and stuff just how poo poo the prospects are for someone who goes to one of these "TTTT" schools. In fact, even downright saying that the legal market has been and currently is warped under the ABA's watch to a great extent would be serving all of those mission statements. I feel like getting almost Tea-party on this poo poo. Build a pinyata out of cardboard with a stupid wig on it saying "accredit me ABA" and then burn it on FOX NEWS and say Ill be exercising my 2nd amendment rights unless I get better quality legal education and some attempt to restore the proffession to deserving any sort of prestige. This ABA organization just seems to grow larger and larger and get less and less done. Lemonus fucked around with this message at 05:32 on Oct 29, 2010 |
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Oct 29, 2010 04:35
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