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Slashie posted:I'm a published author. I can tell you right off the bat children's books are the most difficult area to get into, and that you shouldn't count on getting to illustrate your own books unless you are an absolutely exceptional talent with both words and pictures. We've had people come in here before all "I showed my work to some kids and they liked it" but that's not nearly good enough. There's also the factor of being able to write for specific reading levels, and understanding how pictures have to support the words. Thanks  Reading the hell outta that thread. May I ask your book's title?I've heard many a time that it's really tough... but hey, I'm an optimist!
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Oct 27, 2010 21:09
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Alright, I've read through a good bit of this thread, and I just can't decide if switching my major from Arts to Graphic design Unfortunately I don't have ANYTHING to show, except for a few designs and pieces I've done recently. I'm just getting my AA right now, and finishing in a university, and I want to be what I'm sure a lot of kids want to be, a "great artist". But tempering my passion with reality I'm trying to weigh out logistics of what I can do to support myself. I've recently been reading and studying on more entrepreneurial approaches to art, and any streams of revenue in the biz sounds good to me. My passion is traditional animation, but I can design, and I am familiar with most basic image programs, Flash, Photoshop, Learning Illustrator, etc. I'm also learning new programs all the time (self taught) but what are the best basic programs I should know if I go into any business? Just knowing these most basic facts, would it be more sensible for me to change to graphic design as my major? I don't know how the world works in art past school, but I want to learn and use my job (whether it be what I really want or not) to fuel my other projects and really make a difference in what I create. I'm more than willing to start anywhere at the bottom and work my way up. Any advice would be greatly appreciated! The Mobile Sponge fucked around with this message at 08:25 on Nov 1, 2010 |
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Nov 1, 2010 08:23
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Design is not art, at least not in the sense I think about it. To me the challenge is different. If you have that deep-seeded need to fulfill your artistic vision that many artists have then graphic design is not a good way to do that while making money. It's all about what your client wants and being able to understand their goals and audience. It's also about having your work shredded in front of you and having to sit down and produce on time and on budget. It's about making tons and tons of compromises. If these things I just said actually appeal to you [we're a weird bunch] then maybe look into it. You might also look into illustration or concept art, ultimately they're still about who's paying but there's a lot more of an ability to have a personal creative style.
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Nov 1, 2010 16:51
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If your question is "do I want an economically viable career" then graphic design may be perfect for you!
Woof! Woof! fucked around with this message at 02:34 on Nov 2, 2010 |
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Nov 2, 2010 00:31
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qirex posted:Design is not art, at least not in the sense I think about it. To me the challenge is different. If you have that deep-seeded need to fulfill your artistic vision that many artists have then graphic design is not a good way to do that while making money. It's all about what your client wants and being able to understand their goals and audience. It's also about having your work shredded in front of you and having to sit down and produce on time and on budget. It's about making tons and tons of compromises. If these things I just said actually appeal to you [we're a weird bunch] then maybe look into it. The problem I have is that I can see myself doing both, I'm confident to go into either, but I just don't know which would be the best choice for my situation Woof! Woof! posted:If your question is "do I want an economically viable career" then graphic design may be perfect for you! That's what I was thinking, but I wanted everyone's opinion, especially those that are in these art fields The Mobile Sponge fucked around with this message at 05:22 on Nov 2, 2010 |
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Nov 2, 2010 05:20
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What art fields? the only art field you mention is animation, and you don't find a lot of people working in animation non-commercially because it's such a labor intensive process. Flash, illustrator, etc, are not fields, they're just programs that people use to create with. For me this question boils down to what you want to do, and how you live your life in your 20's and 30's. Building yourself up as a designer or an artist means making very different choices about how you start out your career. Both are relatively "risky" in that a lot of people fail and you have to work your rear end off, and your core education are extremely important. If I were to make a general comparison I would say there's definitely money floating around in the world of fine art but it takes a very different set of skills to get your hands on it, and being a good artist is only one part of that. If you're serious about being an artist, have a look at how some contemporary artists work and get paid and take a long think about whether or not you see yourself doing any of the things they do. There's that, and years and years of living poor while you develop your craft. Grant funding, residencies, gallery sales, all of this poo poo is complicated, time consuming bullshit you almost have to put up with in order to be an artist. Also while there are several designers (Shepard Fairey comes to mind) who move in and out of the worlds of "fine art" and "design", and there is some overlap, there is a lot less horizontal mobility than you probably think - especially once you get outside of photography and printmaking. So you need to have a good think about that. You may think you can be a great designer then become an established artist but I personally think those cases are fairly rare. If you're working 60 hours a week at a good design firm good luck finding extra energy to develop your craft on the side. I have been at this awhile and I know very few people who have that kind of grit (they happen to be the famous or up-and-coming ones, though.)
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Nov 2, 2010 07:03
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Just a quick question... Are there any active copywriters floating around here? People don't generally run around flashing their creds, so I'm kind of curious how many of you are in my field. Okay, it's not just curiosity. I've got a presentation where we essentially just talk to a CW about the business, about campaigns they've been working on, about finding a job when you graduate--pretty much everything that we could need to know at this point in time. My school is in Toronto, and there are a ton of phenomenal agencies around here (just the other day we had the beautiful minds behind the Soft Serve Robot shoot the poo poo with us about brand image and how it effects creative elbow room), but I think it might be kinda neat to hunt down someone outside of my school's immediate sphere of influence who's been a part of something equally magical.
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Nov 2, 2010 08:22
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When I see disgusting poo poo like that it makes me glad I stopped watching TV years ago. It is memorable though. Jesus christ.
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Nov 2, 2010 08:34
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Pantothenate posted:Just a quick question... I am a junior writer at an agency that made Ad age's top agencies to watch list in 2010 and is one of the fastest growing agencies in North America. I'm more than happy to talk about my experience getting started and what to expect from the industry in general.
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Nov 2, 2010 16:52
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qirex posted:Design is not art, at least not in the sense I think about it. To me the challenge is different. If you have that deep-seeded need to fulfill your artistic vision that many artists have then graphic design is not a good way to do that while making money. It's all about what your client wants and being able to understand their goals and audience. It's also about having your work shredded in front of you and having to sit down and produce on time and on budget. It's about making tons and tons of compromises. If these things I just said actually appeal to you [we're a weird bunch] then maybe look into it. This is good advice for people thinking about graphic design. To be a good designer you MUST have the ability to completely divorce your personal tastes from your work. Having any kind of backlash or contrary attitude like "well, I like it" or "well, I did it in my style" will not serve you well as a designer (unless you become an industry giant after 20+ years). A designer has concrete reasoning behind every aesthetic decision made on a project and needs to be able to verbalize those decisions to an audience.
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Nov 2, 2010 17:04
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I've seen a lot of newbie designers burn out because they can't separate their ego from their work. It's usually not personal but most of the people you work with don't have the vocabulary to express their feedback in the right design language. Plus some of them are just jerks. I'm trying to think of a situation that you could use to simulate in advance the experience of a roomful of idiots calling your work poo poo and questioning your ability for two solid hours but if you can't take that you won't last.
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Nov 2, 2010 23:19
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Woof! Woof! posted:I am a junior writer at an agency that made Ad age's top agencies to watch list in 2010 and is one of the fastest growing agencies in North America. That sounds awesome. Could I get you to shoot an email to hull.wj at gmail dot com? I'd love to hear more about what media you've been working with, how the job climate is down there, etceteras. Beat. posted:When I see disgusting poo poo like that it makes me glad I stopped watching TV years ago. It is memorable though. Jesus christ. I know--isn't it glorious? It's like the they saw the Rolling Rock Beer Ape and thought to themselves, "You call that intellectually offensive?"
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Nov 3, 2010 06:14
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Pantothenate posted:That sounds awesome. Could I get you to shoot an email to hull.wj at gmail dot com? I'd love to hear more about what media you've been working with, how the job climate is down there, etceteras. I personally find it hard to discuss work that becomes famous off of shock value and that kind of celebrity. But I don't find it glorious at all really - I think it's lame, sophomoric bullshit. So, perfect for TV. Anyway this kind of discussion should probably be in another thread (if someone else wants to make one).
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Nov 3, 2010 07:24
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Pantothenate posted:That sounds awesome. Could I get you to shoot an email to hull.wj at gmail dot com? Sent.
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Nov 3, 2010 15:47
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Beat. posted:What art fields? the only art field you mention is animation, and you don't find a lot of people working in animation non-commercially because it's such a labor intensive process. Flash, illustrator, etc, are not fields, they're just programs that people use to create with. Thanks Beat, I was hoping I'd hear from you I come from a much more illustrative background so I think I'll start there and see were it goes, but the reason I can see myself working in several kinds of art industries if because I am very motivated, I go to school full time, work between 20 and 30 hours a week, and still make art every day I've always been told working your rear end off will pay off in some way, but it's really great hearing the real world side from actual artists. Also I'd love to study up on artists and how they work for a living, were would be a good place to start? Besides just reading through artists blog, is there a better way to find that kind of info?
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Nov 3, 2010 17:30
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The Mobile Sponge posted:I've always been told working your rear end off will pay off in some way, but it's really great hearing the real world side from actual artists. Also I'd love to study up on artists and how they work for a living, were would be a good place to start? Besides just reading through artists blog, is there a better way to find that kind of info? If you live anywhere near a city, try to find meetups for professional artist/designer organizations like the AIGA or IxDA. There are usually city-specific illustrator guilds and organizations, too. I've gotten a bunch of really amazing clients through pro org meetups, and one led to a good offer for full-time employment. The clients who show up to organization mixers tend to be 'in the know' about design and actually appreciate the profession, as opposed to people who post ads on craigslist asking for a "designer who can make websites too, and oh can you take photographs? and animate? and make this flash splash page? and SEO? and marketing?" Also beware agents who try to solicit you without asking to see your work, first. This should be a no-brainer but you'd be surprised. Recruiters can be nutcases, too.
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Nov 3, 2010 22:43
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pancaek posted:Recruiters can be nutcases, too. I had to give an overly pushy recruiter the "Thanks but no thanks, no really." once. It was worse than some breakups I've had.
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Nov 4, 2010 02:26
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pipes! posted:I had to give an overly pushy recruiter the "Thanks but no thanks, no really." once. It was worse than some breakups I've had. I always ended with the line, "I thank you for your interest and will keep your request on file."
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Nov 4, 2010 03:01
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pancaek posted:If you live anywhere near a city, try to find meetups for professional artist/designer organizations like the AIGA or IxDA. There are usually city-specific illustrator guilds and organizations, too. I've gotten a bunch of really amazing clients through pro org meetups, and one led to a good offer for full-time employment. Thanks man, I live in a suburb of Dallas so a quick google should turn up something good
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Nov 4, 2010 04:38
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The Mobile Sponge posted:Thanks Beat, I was hoping I'd hear from you Working your rear end of does pay...just not money, usually. Unfortunately. That takes awhile. There are a few ways to learn about artists. The best way is to find someone locally whose work you like and apprentice/slave labor for them for a year or two. But usually they'll want you to have a solid background in what they do - you can't just walk in. And then you will probably be doing 90% lame poo poo for awhile. You might need a personal connection. But you can learn a lot about the everyday work, and the business side of art this way. Another way is to look up good faculty at universities and study with them. The problem with that though is that you're just another student to them, unless you're putting out phenomenal work they can brag about in staff meetings or grant applications you won't get a lot of focused attention. And you're relegated to the academic semesters, which are awful for learning how to make good work (I think.) But the thing with good faculty is that they often have a lot of "good old boy" connections in the art world with artists, galleries, collectors, etc. You can volunteer/intern with galleries, museums, art organizations, etc. and learn a lot about their side that way if you keep your eyes and ears open. If you're going that route you should try your best to thoroughly research the leadership, so for a museum that will be senior curators or directors. For an art org that could be anything, director, project manager, etc., but the point is you want to be volunteering or interning as close to the leaders as possible. Don't waste time at a big famous museum if all they're going to is put you behind a desk filing papers or answering phones. gently caress that poo poo.
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Nov 5, 2010 00:22
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I'm going to be applying to grad schools for an MFA in photography/digital media pretty soon and I have an opportunity to go to an open house/portfolio review this saturday for a school I really want to get into. However, I've never been to a portfolio review and am now starting to freak out about it a little bit. Since I've graduated I started a new body of work that I plan on applying with, but for now, is only about half completed. At the same time, I don't have any prints of my new work. Should I bring my old work as well as what I'm working on now or is 8 images enough? What should I expect at the review? Should I rush out and spend a couple hundred bucks on printing tomorrow (I'm pretty sure this is a yes)? There is another open house on december 9th, should I reschedule for then? Sorry for the rambling question-fest. I am super second guessing myself right now.
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Nov 5, 2010 02:49
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It's hard to say. I've been told to "bring everything" and I've been told to bring my best, which usually means around 10-12 images. Since you're going for an MFA, I'd say bring it all, and show in chronological order how you've improved.
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Nov 9, 2010 17:55
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Anyone here ever done a internship for animation at Turner or any other company? I'm curious if the cost is worth the experience gained, and if you are in fact taught how to do stuff/receive an education of how animation/design functions in that sort of environment firsthand; or if it's just copying files for minimum wage.
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Nov 13, 2010 08:00
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EatinCake posted:Anyone here ever done a internship for animation at Turner or any other company? I'm curious if the cost is worth the experience gained, and if you are in fact taught how to do stuff/receive an education of how animation/design functions in that sort of environment firsthand; or if it's just copying files for minimum wage. Even if it is just "copying files" you're making connections with people in the industry that can help you find a job/use as a reference/get your foot in the door, etc. Internships are more about meeting people and getting a firsthand look at an industry work environment, less so for learning technical stuff. I didn't do any internship/co-op when I was in college and I regret it a lot.
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Nov 13, 2010 17:12
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This is kind of important to me, but I've been wanting to ask, Is the market saturated with too many Graphic Designers? It sure seems that way in the area I live. Everyone and their mother takes it up at the Technical school (a division of Penn State.) The last job that was advertised and I applied to was a part time, minimum wage (7.25/hour. F-that.) graphic design job for the local newspaper. They had like 100+ people they interviewed, and you needed experience, which I only had a few months from a internship that decided not to hire me because the STOCK MARKET CRASHED THAT WEEK. I actually took up Illustration in college, and by my third year I realized I wasn't talented enough to get anywhere. So I tried to start ALL over (they didn't accept any of my credits) for a bachelors in Graphic Design, but after two hospitalizations I asked the adviser for help, and she simply said "You should just drop out." I wish I hadn't listened to her, but it pissed me off they didn't want anything to do with me just because I have mental problems. I want to go back to school, but I feel like a drop in a bucket if I take Graphic Design again. I have till January to apply, but I'm not sure what major to take. How's the market for 3D animators, ones that maybe don't do game design, but animation?
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Nov 15, 2010 15:02
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The market is saturated with chumps. If you can get above chump level you have a chance at success. Most entry level 3D animation is done overseas now and it's a much smaller industry than graphic design. You can make it but you need to bust major rear end, get better than almost everyone else, relocate somewhere where there's work and then take lovely jobs and be poor for several years while you figure out your niche and all the people who can't hack it fall off. This is true for pretty much every creative gig by the way. This can be partially accelerated by being a superstar and an excellent networker.
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Nov 15, 2010 17:14
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Honestly if you want to go the graphic design route, just learn web design. HTML/CSS is super easy to learn and you will probably win over most jobs against people who only know graphic design. I don't know about the market situation in America though, but here in Europe there are a lot of job openings for multimedia designers (which is what I'm doing know) and the work ranges from web & graphic design, illustration, photography and video/3D stuff. It seems to me that 'graphic designers-only' is a thing that's dying out, people need to know more than one tool nowadays. But luckily for you that is very easy to do with online tutorials and total training videos ! You'll have an edge on the competition in no time AND you'll have a creative job that pays very good.
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Nov 16, 2010 09:29
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That is my one concern, I am pretty much a self-taught designer (been doing so for 15+ years now, mainly print, I did graduate with a BFA in Communication Design) but I just feel that I do not have a total grasp on HTML & CSS to market my services for web design. As my friend told me "You know enough to get yourself into trouble". Honestly, I would ditch my current full-time job to try to find something that would allow me to gain more real world experience with web (even in another city). Even considered taking an intern level position, just so that I can get more practical experience beyond just tutorials and even classes (which I have done both). I learn best by doing. As time goes by, I feel more and more left behind. Saveron_01 fucked around with this message at 20:11 on Nov 16, 2010 |
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Nov 16, 2010 18:19
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Jabe posted:It seems to me that 'graphic designers-only' is a thing that's dying out, people need to know more than one tool nowadays. But luckily for you that is very easy to do with online tutorials and total training videos ! I've been noticing this a lot in new job postings for junior level designer positions, but drat sometimes I feel like I'm spreading myself thin with having to know After Effects, 3ds Max, CSS, jQuery, java, HTML/XML, Flash and the rest of the Suite (I'm fine with those).
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Nov 17, 2010 02:07
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cheese eats mouse posted:I've been noticing this a lot in new job postings for junior level designer positions, but drat sometimes I feel like I'm spreading myself thin with having to know After Effects, 3ds Max, CSS, jQuery, java, HTML/XML, Flash and the rest of the Suite (I'm fine with those). You only really have to do this when you're getting started, at some point you'll get a gig that demand that you specialize more or you'll find the niche that you're the best at.
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Nov 17, 2010 02:27
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Any Graphic Designers in the Central NJ area looking for work? I'm changing jobs and have to essentially hire my replacement, so I figured I'd throw the job out there if anyone is interested. Yes, it is paid and yes, it is full time. It's a graphic designer position for a small printing company, it consists of doing the in-house design work for the company and working with our clients more or less directly. Most of the work is print related, given the nature of the company, but there are also some websites we create and maintain, so having some HTML and CSS knowledge would be nice. I'll be staying on temporarily during nights & weekends to set up the transition, so I could train in the more detailed prepress areas since not many people have experience in the production sides of things. I'm not 100% sure on pay right now, I still need to talk to the owner about the details like that. It's a family run business and the owner is a good guy, and this job is great for someone looking for a entry to mid level position. I've been trying to expand the web design & hosting that the company does, so there's some room to grow if you have some initiative. Send an email with your resume & any portfolio links/pdfs to careers [at] weaverprinting.com and put "SA" in the subject line so I can know where your email came from. You can also PM me if you have any questions about the position.
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Nov 17, 2010 18:56
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Aw if only you were hiring towards my graduation in May I would certainly apply.
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Nov 18, 2010 10:18
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Well send me an email anyway, I'm trying to convince the owner to hire more then one person, especially down the line. Might be an extra spot for part time as well in the meantime if that's something you'd be interested in. At worst I can give you some suggestions on your resume/portfolio and give you a hand, I know it's a pain in the rear end to find work out here.
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Nov 18, 2010 18:34
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Peggle Fever posted:Well send me an email anyway, I'm trying to convince the owner to hire more then one person, especially down the line. Might be an extra spot for part time as well in the meantime if that's something you'd be interested in. At worst I can give you some suggestions on your resume/portfolio and give you a hand, I know it's a pain in the rear end to find work out here. I live in Kentucky, but I'm looking to get out of this state and central NJ is closer to my end goal of NYC or Chicago. I'll also always take critique. Edit: My bad saw you already put the e-mail up. cheese eats mouse fucked around with this message at 05:37 on Nov 19, 2010 |
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Nov 19, 2010 00:08
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At the end of last year, I was working on some pretty good design work for some large non-profit organizations. Some of the larger projects would count for nearly a quarter of my annual income. The rest came from ad agencies that I had deals with to take on their overflow and some local freelance work. In the past year, I have seen my work load go from 40-50 hrs a week down to 10, mainly due to the fact that no one is spending money on print design. I would have retained a some of my clients and probably got some more if I had more experience with web/multimedia design. Finally, I had to take a job to cover my losses and actually have fun stuff like health insurance. I have been thinking of going back to get an Interactive Multimedia degree just so that I can remarket myself to those clients and hopefully gain some more. I did take a couple courses at a local community college, but in the end, I found them lacking of any substance and failed to challenge me. Since I have no debt, some cash in the bank, I was considering going back to school full-time and get another degree. Take it from me, do not get caught in the print production world, it is unglamourous and you really feel like your career is going nowhere.
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Nov 23, 2010 20:45
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Do you have a lead on a good school? A lot of "multimedia" programs are pretty sad and you'll probably end up having to teach yourself a ton of stuff.
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Nov 24, 2010 03:55
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qirex posted:Do you have a lead on a good school? A lot of "multimedia" programs are pretty sad and you'll probably end up having to teach yourself a ton of stuff. That is my one concern. Awhile ago I went to check out the Art Institute of Phila., but in all honesty it seemed like they were more concerned with cash flow than their students. I originally went to Kutztown University for Communication Design (BFA), so I might take a trip up and check that out. Being in my 30s now, I kinda do not want to rack up $100k in debt, and the tuition for full-time at a Pennsylvania school is roughly $4k a semester, something that I can easily handle. Plus the side benefit of having most if not all of my elective credits transferring, so I would really only have to take 4 semesters. When I first graduated, I literally knew no one in the industry and scraped to get my own clients and contacts. Taking advantage of the community that the University offered is one thing that I missed out on, which looking back I totally regretted not exploiting for my own benefit. So one thing to take out of this is NETWORK.
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Nov 24, 2010 04:12
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Just buy a lynda.com account mate. I did a master in communication & multimedia design and in the end I pretty much learned everything myself thanks to these videos. Total training is great too. Why spend time and money on school when you're going to freelance anyway? And it's never too late for networking, just become a regular at meetups, conferences, seminars and whatever is going on in your city/town.
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Nov 24, 2010 08:53
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drat, I completely forgot about lynda.com. I had a subscription a few years back, but due to my work schedule never really got too deep into the programs. Thanks for reminding me!
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Nov 24, 2010 13:16
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Consider your career path in two separate parts - the software and the design. Learning the software will not give you much insight into the principles of design like color theory, directing the eye, etc. Lynda.com has some great segments on design principles (I'm halfway through their color theory class) - so you can get value from lynda.com, coupled with a 2-year school that focuses on creativity and core design principles.
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Nov 24, 2010 17:06
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