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Games like Doom, Duke3D, Shadow Warrior, etc, were easy back then too, don't kid yourself. Having an explorable map really didn't make the game much harder, and most of those maps were repetitive scenery and gimmicks that weren't too interesting. I mean, am I the only one that remembres the hilariously stupid final boss fights to Doom-1 and Doom-2 (especially Doom-2, haha). Nostalgia glasses going strong in here, but this is certainly the right thread for it! =)
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Nov 10, 2010 05:37
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andrew smash posted:I don't know, really, Call of Duty was an excellent distillation of everything that worked well about WW2 shooters up to that point, without a lot of the wonky poo poo that was in the medal of honor games. Their focus on "historical" presentation of battles lent itself to the scripted set pieces they relied on so heavily, and frankly it was pretty well done even in that respect. Experiences like being stalked by a tiger throughout ruined european villages, taking the airfield at the end of the british campaign, and the tank division battle (in CoD2) really drove home the sense of being part of a larger battle in a war effort rather than being a single crazed lunatic with thousands of bullets and no fear of anything (not that such games are bad). I actually really like the original call of duty, I think they newer modern warfare games are very different beasts.
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Nov 10, 2010 05:45
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Rascyc posted:Games like Doom, Duke3D, Shadow Warrior, etc, were easy back then too, don't kid yourself. Having an explorable map really didn't make the game much harder, and most of those maps were repetitive scenery and gimmicks that weren't too interesting. I mean, am I the only one that remembres the hilariously stupid final boss fights to Doom-1 and Doom-2 (especially Doom-2, haha). I still like those games to this day personally. Long as the res is jacked up above 320x240 anyway. They never struck me as boring, though they also never, ever looked like a real city or building And I never had an easy time with Shadow Warrior, Duke3D or Blood. Doom wasn't bad, but I ran out of ammo so much I never finished Doom2 without cheating. Doom1 was easy, only had to stretch out your ammo for 9 levels at a time. Were you playing on easier difficulties, or are you just one of those twitchy guys that does rather well at FPS games?
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Nov 10, 2010 05:52
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I booted up shadow warrior for the first time ever last week and immediately saw why it is the only build engine game that hasn't gotten any kind of new release. It's hilariously racist.
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Nov 10, 2010 05:53
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The worst part about Doom is how the Doomlikes of the period never managed to actually make some decent maps/levels comparatively. I still haven't beaten Dark Forces or Systemshock 1 without either cheating or giving up, they are both examples of terrible level design.
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Nov 10, 2010 06:02
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The racism only gets better (worse?) the further in you play too.Andrigaar posted:I still like those games to this day personally. Long as the res is jacked up above 320x240 anyway. They never struck me as boring, though they also never, ever looked like a real city or building Also I seem to recall the hardest difficulty had infinite respawning enemies so it was much more about not killing everything and just bypassing as much as possible and rushing the exit. And quite frankly, I really just wanted to kill poo poo when it came to those games. I guess as an amusing sign of irony, I am not terrific at PC FPS games like I used to be since the revolution of mouse look. I was much better when it was just good ole' ctrl for fire and alt+ for strafing.
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Nov 10, 2010 06:05
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Rascyc posted:I know Doom's harder difficulties were borderline impossible until after you played through the game enough times to memorize all the secret areas to get the necessary amount of ammo since its idea of harder difficulties was just more and more enemies. This isn't true. Doom was about faster, stronger, more accurate enemies in higher difficulty levels. Maybe more as well, but that wasn't the real point. Also, it was either a difficulty level or some kind of setting where you would have the monsters respawn, making the focus, as you say, on just finishing the level.
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Nov 10, 2010 06:09
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I'll vouch for blood being pretty hard on the default difficulty, especially if you don't load saves and restart levels with default weapons when you die (this makes the game more fun IMO)
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Nov 10, 2010 06:16
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Rascyc posted:I don't remember how Duke3D and Shadow Warrior played out, but I know Doom's harder difficulties were borderline impossible until after you played through the game enough times to memorize all the secret areas to get the necessary amount of ammo since its idea of harder difficulties was just more and more enemies. From then on, it was just a matter of enter room - oh there are so many enemies that I can't strafe? - time to bottleneck camp for 20 minutes to cut the numbers down. uh, is your only experience of Doom playing Alien Vendetta on UV or something
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Nov 10, 2010 06:23
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Rascyc posted:Games like Doom, Duke3D, Shadow Warrior, etc, were easy back then too, don't kid yourself. Having an explorable map really didn't make the game much harder, and most of those maps were repetitive scenery and gimmicks that weren't too interesting. I mean, am I the only one that remembres the hilariously stupid final boss fights to Doom-1 and Doom-2 (especially Doom-2, haha). I replayed Doom, Doom 2, and Duke 3D in the last year, they get pretty drat brutal even on the default difficulty. Play through any of those, then play through pretty much any FPS released in the last 5 years, and tell me if you still think they're of comparable difficulty.
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Nov 10, 2010 06:54
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Doom/Doom2 aren't really that hard these days because mouselook kinda trivializes the combat at the monster populations those games had Plutonia's where it's at if you want an asskicking
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Nov 10, 2010 06:56
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Drox posted:This isn't true. Doom was about faster, stronger, more accurate enemies in higher difficulty levels. Maybe more as well, but that wasn't the real point. Also, it was either a difficulty level or some kind of setting where you would have the monsters respawn, making the focus, as you say, on just finishing the level. http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/Skill_level#Doom_and_Doom_II_skill_levels Anyway, it's not like Doom was probably the gold standard for hardest FPS game back in those days (like this guy says ^^^). It just happened to be the one that I played the most as a kid and was easy for me to reference! [e]I also completely forgot that games like Doom and Wolfenstein came out on like the SNES at one point, heh.
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Nov 10, 2010 07:04
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Doom for the SNES was kinda awesome. I had a small monitor at the time I was playing the early FPSs, so playing it on the TV in the living room was a big draw. People complained about it, but Bioshock had a lot in common with Doom. The tactics you had to use were more focused on trying to get into open areas you can move freely in, rather than cramped corridors with lots of cover to attach to and never move from. They just don't design FPSs like they used to. 
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Nov 10, 2010 07:21
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The Machine posted:Doom for the SNES was kinda awesome. I had a small monitor at the time I was playing the early FPSs, so playing it on the TV in the living room was a big draw. Then I played Bioshock wrong. I quick-saved, armed my freeze skill and a wrench, and charged like an idiot attempting to freeze/smash everyone. I did do some dodging along the way, and had to zap some robots and people standing in puddles. But once I got the freeze power, the rest of the options were like annoying gnats to me. AKA I became Sub-Zero 
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Nov 10, 2010 07:30
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Hogburto posted:Does MoO have awesome terraforming, a pretty cool secret project-driven plot, weird-cool spacey music, and an in-game encyclopedia? And a ginger, back-stabbing, sneering, condescending bitch enemy? Yes, Master of Orion 2 has all of these sans a project-driven plot (instead you get scary aliens-driven plot). MOO 1 is basically the same but without an in-game encyclopedia.
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Nov 10, 2010 07:58
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So... Baldur's Gate 2, today, right?Sheep posted:Yes, Master of Orion 2 has all of these sans a project-driven plot (instead you get scary aliens-driven plot). MOO 1 is basically the same but without an in-game encyclopedia. Late game also involves blowing up those pretty terraformed planets if you feel like it
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Nov 10, 2010 09:19
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Andrigaar posted:Then I played Bioshock wrong. I quick-saved, armed my freeze skill and a wrench, and charged like an idiot attempting to freeze/smash everyone. I did do some dodging along the way, and had to zap some robots and people standing in puddles. But once I got the freeze power, the rest of the options were like annoying gnats to me. If you are wrong then so am I. Freeze drill is the best plasmid ever. 
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Nov 10, 2010 10:14
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BiggestOrangeTree posted:So... Baldur's Gate 2, today, right? I hope so, I'm planning on playing it with Tutu and a friend.
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Nov 10, 2010 10:18
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BiggestOrangeTree posted:So... Baldur's Gate 2, today, right? Nope.
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Nov 10, 2010 12:04
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Vastakaiun posted:Nope. Is this in any way, shape or form like Star Control 2? It sounds and kinda looks like the same type of game and if so then im sold.
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Nov 10, 2010 12:16
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If Baldur's Gate 2 doesn't come out this week, there will be, at minimum, much wailing and gnashing of teeth. If, after that, the final Hasbro-owned RPG release isn't Baldur's Gate 2, people will die.
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Nov 10, 2010 12:33
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Speaking of great DOS action games, everyone get to the wishlist and vote for Crusader: No Remorse and Crusader: No Regret! Just listen to this kickass 90s soundtrack http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSX57CuT4ps#t=1m2s EDIT: ahhh crap, after some research it seems EA own it. drat. Amethyst fucked around with this message at 12:48 on Nov 10, 2010 |
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Nov 10, 2010 12:34
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Vastakaiun posted:Nope. There is literally no reason to buy Space Rangers when you can get Space Rangers 2 for pretty drat cheap on physical disc. I'd say wait till GoG inevitably release SR2, it improves everything about SR. (It also adds a lovely RTS mode but that's completely skippable by design.)
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Nov 10, 2010 12:49
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Nthman posted:Is this in any way, shape or form like Star Control 2? It sounds and kinda looks like the same type of game and if so then im sold.  They are very similar, so I have only ever played SR2, even when SR1 is included on the disc as a free bonus. Sadly the localization is not one of SR2's high points, so I can't really say the writing (mostly humorous in style) is anything close to SC2.SR2:Reboot has been on sale from time to time on both Impulse and Steam, so it's probably better to get it from those places than GOG. Or retail, it's an old game after all.
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Nov 10, 2010 13:23
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teethgrinder posted:Don't get me wrong, the image makes an amusing point, but I'm not sure that running around checking every nook and cranny for keys is exactly superior gameplay. As someone who is currently plowing through Redneck Rampage and it's expansions, I couldn't agree more with this. Duke 3D (same engine) has coloured keycards and buttons/switches that stand out. RR has skeleton keys that all look alike and the doors don't visually tell you if they are locked and which key you need. The game has a grimey look with buttons/switches/valves/ladders that don't stand out. The limited visibility in underwater and underground sections isn't helping much either. The worst offender is the sewer level in RR's first episode. You end raising the water level so you can swim across to a small platform. Here you have turn around 180 degrees, look up and shoot the switch that is there. IN NO OTHER PART OF THE GAME DO YOU NEED TO LOOK UP OR DOWN. Mierenneuker fucked around with this message at 13:39 on Nov 10, 2010 |
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Nov 10, 2010 13:32
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Mierenneuker posted:The worst offender is the sewer level in RR's first episode. You end raising the water level so you can swim across to a small platform. Here you have turn around 180 degrees, look up and shoot the switch that is there. IN NO OTHER PART OF THE GAME DO YOU NEED TO LOOK UP OR DOWN. That sewer level sucked. I had to look that bit up in a walkthrough. I have no idea how you were supposed to figure that out, except for pure luck. It was very unintuitive. I'm playing the Suckin' Grits expansion atm. The level design so far has been a lot better.
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Nov 10, 2010 14:12
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Drox posted:This isn't true. Doom was about faster, stronger, more accurate enemies in higher difficulty levels. Maybe more as well, but that wasn't the real point. Also, it was either a difficulty level or some kind of setting where you would have the monsters respawn, making the focus, as you say, on just finishing the level. The highest difficulty level, nightmare, had respawning enemies. Everything else up to that point (through ultraviolence) required basically refinement of how you might play a map tactically, but on nightmare the point always seemed to me to be rushing through every map as fast as possible without getting shot. Sticking around on other difficulties to grab powerups was usually a good idea because you would come out ahead in terms of resources, but on NM you essentially have to know what on the level is good enough to justify the detour to get it in terms of ammo and health loss. Supercharge globes / soulspheres, good armors, new weapons, maybe big medpacks? definitely. A room with a few clips on the ground? No.
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Nov 10, 2010 14:32
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Gashroom posted:They have similarities and are also very different. Both are some of the best PC games ever Yep, wait for Space Rangers 2. It's basically Privateer: The Top Down Version. The overall plot is unimpressive but the side quests are the core of the game and have absolutely hilarious throw-away jokes. If you thought of Space Rangers 2 as a more complex Sid Meier's Pirates! you wouldn't be too far off. The only thing I dislike about Space Rangers 2 is that there's a significant learning curve early on. You really have to explore and while you can do a lot, the game doesn't hold your hand and tell you what might actually be a good idea. If they release the second maybe we could type up a quick tips guide so that people can play it without dying constantly. Ohthehugemanatee fucked around with this message at 15:12 on Nov 10, 2010 |
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Nov 10, 2010 15:09
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Last year, I bought a physical copy of Space Rangers 2 with a free copy of Space Rangers for $20. $9.99 each is not a very good price. In fact, what I bought is now down to $9: http://www.amazon.com/Space-Rangers-2-Rise-Dominators-Pc/dp/B000EOOZ5S/ref=pd_cp_vg_3 Here's part 2 with the expansion and part 1 for $15: http://www.amazon.com/Space-Rangers-2-Reboot-Pc/dp/B001OASSH2/ref=dp_cp_ob_vg_title_2 Edit: Regardless, the Space Rangers series is a lot of fun. I do recommend it. Lord_Pigeonbane fucked around with this message at 19:07 on Nov 10, 2010 |
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Nov 10, 2010 19:05
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n'thing the point about Space Rangers 2:reloaded. It hit the last big Steam sale with a fairly hard discount (25th June, ~$4 IIRC) As we're coming up to thanksgiving you might be as well to wait and see if they do anything for the run up to the holiday.
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Nov 10, 2010 19:20
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Also backing this up. SR1 is just SR2 with less polish and variety, and SR is just SR2: Reboot with fewer sidequest types and no search feature. There's basically no reason to get SR1 or SR2 when SR2:R exists.
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Nov 10, 2010 19:33
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dflanny posted:That sewer level sucked. I had to look that bit up in a walkthrough. I have no idea how you were supposed to figure that out, except for pure luck. It was very unintuitive. Agreed. It's kinda obvious that it's just a levelpack created by a different team while the original developers were working on Rides Again. But what the levels lack in creativity is made up by the sheer lack of frustration while playing the levels. I'm about halfway and I've yet to consult a walkthrough.
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Nov 10, 2010 19:35
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Doom 2's difficulty has been trivialized with mouselook, but since it wasn't designed to be played like that, real (wo)men play keyboard only. Plutonia or Hell Revealed using only keyboard? Buckle up because you're about to get shat upon.
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Nov 10, 2010 20:42
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My biggest complaint about Space Rangers 2 is the translation, which is just barely adequate. It's not a problem when you're playing the main game and going here and there, but it makes the text quests an absolute chore because they can get so wordy and most of them are managerial/simulation/puzzle-type quests, so it can be really hard to understand what you're even supposed to do. A lot of the times you'll be given hints that either don't make any sense or are just completely wrong.
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Nov 10, 2010 21:00
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Thompsons posted:My biggest complaint about Space Rangers 2 is the translation, which is just barely adequate. It's not a problem when you're playing the main game and going here and there, but it makes the text quests an absolute chore because they can get so wordy and most of them are managerial/simulation/puzzle-type quests, so it can be really hard to understand what you're even supposed to do. A lot of the times you'll be given hints that either don't make any sense or are just completely wrong. I'm not sure if you're talking about the Reboot version, which I've played through and was able to complete most of the text quests without any issues.
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Nov 10, 2010 21:46
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Rascyc posted:Games like Doom, Duke3D, Shadow Warrior, etc, were easy back then too, don't kid yourself. Having an explorable map really didn't make the game much harder, and most of those maps were repetitive scenery and gimmicks that weren't too interesting. I mean, am I the only one that remembres the hilariously stupid final boss fights to Doom-1 and Doom-2 (especially Doom-2, haha). Nostalgia glasses only work in hindsight. Lets face it, most old games suck rear end by contemporary standards but if something from the past is still acceptable by today's standards there are no nostalgia glasses involved. While Doom's map design is maze after maze of repetitive textures, the Build games are almost universally above average with Duke3D and Blood having some of the best designs I've seen. I played Duke3D back in the day but never actually beat L.A. Meltdown until last year and the entire experience felt totally fresh. The Alamo level with the earthquake that morphs the terrain in real time was a total blast. I played Strife for the first time a few months ago and was absolutely floored by how variable the levels were given the limitations of the Doom engine. With that said, it seems like developers in the 90s designed the levels first and filled them after the fact. I remember developers with Rare talking about how they designed Goldeneye with this in mind because different difficulties would add/remove certain elements. FPS games now are obviously built around set pieces and cut scenes with Medal of Honor: Allied Assault being the first game I noticed this sudden shift in design. I still miss the level-based design of old. The last first person game I recall playing with truly outstanding level design was Dark Messiah of Might & Magic which forced you to utilize all the environmental traps and the rope-bow is probably my favorite weapon ever. I also really liked Arx Fatalis which had environmental and physics based puzzles way before Half-Life 2 made it popular. Replaying the game when it came out on GoG made me realize how much crap I missed is hidden in the environments. Prey's later levels really opened up and had some neat tricks built into them. Bulletstorm looks like it might rekindle some love but I haven't been following it too deeply. I'm genuinely interested in Human Revolution which I hope will be a massive step beyond Invisible War's lovely levels. Fingers crossed that Duke Nukem Forever isn't total poo poo.
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Nov 12, 2010 04:19
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al-azad posted:
 I think your history of computer games gets a little fuzzy before you get all way back to Doom. And I'll disagree with your criticism of its level design as a mazefest. gary oldmans diary fucked around with this message at 05:35 on Nov 12, 2010 |
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Nov 12, 2010 05:32
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Doom ... repetitive textures
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Speaking of Doom, Ive just tried Stronghold. Amazing poo poo. If you love Doom gameplay, do yourself a favor and check this out: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3364121
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Nov 12, 2010 05:46
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False advertising! It's basically a tower defense game with a space mobile marine instead of a turret. So if you suck at TD (like I do) you're not going to do so well at this game. Still a ton of fun though.
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Nov 12, 2010 07:50
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Hogburto posted:
Admittedly when it comes to Doom my beer glasses come on. Last I played Doom was 5 years ago but I've never been a big Doom fan especially once I got ahold of Looking Glass' games in the mid-90s. Still, I shudder when thinking of Command Control, Containment Area (gently caress you), and really any level with a butt ton of keys, teleporters, and level features that are obscured or don't appear on the vector map. There are repetitive textures and I don't see how you can argue that. Even the ceiling and floor are the exact same textures in almost every level. The designers did some neat tricks to make unique looking rooms but Pandemonium and Halls of the Damned are the first to spring to mind where every room looks alike. I still prefer theme based levels. The best levels in Call of Duty are when you're taking over a village or defending a specific point because the design takes into account every possible approach. Edit: going through some Doom archives, it seems majority of my past hate comes entirely from Team TNT's work on Eternal Doom which I remember playing extensively at one point before saying "gently caress this poo poo." Elias_Maluco posted:Speaking of Doom, Ive just tried Stronghold. Amazing poo poo. If you love Doom gameplay, do yourself a favor and check this out: Ugh, just triggered another memory of Evilution's map "Stronghold." al-azad fucked around with this message at 10:53 on Nov 12, 2010 |
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Nov 12, 2010 10:31
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