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CJSwiss posted:The fact that the Trade Federation has Senators in the first place shows that the Republic is corrupt. A business is being represented on the same scale as a planetary government. I don't think the Trade Federation actually had Senate seats. They did buy a lot of Senators' votes, though.
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Nov 10, 2010 20:39
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vseslav.botkin posted:I dunno, Anakin building Artoo still leaves us with the problem of "why not build something that his mom might actually use?" I somehow doubt she has much use for an astromech droid, even if it can fly and hack into the Death Star and project holograms of princesses in distress. At most, you might get a useful beverage delivery system if you put a tray on top of him. Artoo's basically a robotic Swiss army knife. I don't own a spaceship either, but... ImpAtom posted:Considering Uncle Owen wanted to buy one in the original movies, presumably it has uses beyond spaceship stuff. He wanted to buy C3-P0 as well, but that is because his wife yelled at him to get a translator that spoke whateverthehellese, which is presumably less useful for a slave then a fixit robot. Bocce. She wants a droid who speaks Bocce. (Also, the binary language of moisture vaporators.) Diacritical Mark posted:I don't think the Trade Federation actually had Senate seats. They did buy a lot of Senators' votes, though. "The chair does not recognize the senator of the Trade Federation at this time."
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Nov 10, 2010 20:43
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Mahoshonen posted:Otherwise, we have to take everyone's word that the Senate is corrupt. You forgot the first rule of (Lucas) story telling: Tell, don't show! 
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Nov 10, 2010 20:47
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SeanBeansShako posted:Has any novels/comics just a before Phantom Menace tried to tackle the corrupt senate thing? As mentioned, some of the Republic comics - the Star Hyperspace War one, and there's another where the focus is on investigating the murder of a senator who was attempting to reform the Senate. I think the Acts of War comic miniseries also had something involving the Senate. And there of course is the wonderful novel Cloak of Deception which is really great in highlighting how screwed up the Republic's political system was leading in to TPM. It's one of the best prequel-era books. LLJKSiLk posted:I think in regard to the Valorum example, his vizier or whatever whispered in his ear once the Trade Federation allies started banding together and all of a sudden his will to do anything was gone. I think it was Cloak of Deception that hints that Valorum was in some sort of sex scandal (or at least had rumors of one) with one of his aides, which is probably a reference to the fact that Lucas based Valorum on Clinton, although the movie was filmed before the Lewinsky thing broke. Diacritical Mark posted:I don't think the Trade Federation actually had Senate seats. They did buy a lot of Senators' votes, though. Doesn't the Clone Wars show have the Trade Federation and other big companies having senate seats? It's one of many reasons I really don't like the show.
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Nov 10, 2010 20:51
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CJSwiss posted:The fact that the Trade Federation has Senators in the first place shows that the Republic is corrupt. A business is being represented on the same scale as a planetary government. Are they actually a business, though? Given their representation in the senate and their army, I always figured it was some sort of nation state, possibly an economic alliance of member planets. Of course, the films don't really give them any background so I could be far off base.
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Nov 10, 2010 20:53
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Mahoshonen posted:The only evidence of corruption from the PT that I can think of is that Padme mentions that the Republic failed to convict Nute Gunray of anything after he was caught red handed invading Naboo. Otherwise, we have to take everyone's word that the Senate is corrupt. I think this is one of these points people keep harping on thanks to RLM that gets really silly. You don't need to show everything. In Episode 4 how do we know the senate was dissolved? We only have Tarkin's word for it! For all we know the Senate is perfectly fine.
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Nov 10, 2010 20:54
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RagnarokAngel posted:I think this is one of these points people keep harping on thanks to RLM that gets really silly. You don't need to show everything. In Episode 4 how do we know the senate was dissolved? We only have Tarkin's word for it! For all we know the Senate is perfectly fine. That's an apples and oranges comparison. Politics are secondary in the original films. Dissolving the senate is just one of many evil acts to establish the Empire as the bad guys. The first Star Wars backs this "tell" up with the "show"ing of capturing a senator, murdering innocents, and planetary destruction. It's a just minor detail that adds flavor and scope to the setting. In the prequels, politics are front and center. One of the major plot arcs through the entire trilogy is Palpatine's rise to power, which in turn is bound tightly to the fall of our protagonist. Suddenly, the senate is important. We need to know and care about it. If it's corrupt, we need to see that corruption. We need to see how one senator can use that to his advantage to take control and create an empire. Otherwise it just falls flat which the prequels did. Political doesn't have to equate to boring, but it's guaranteed to be dull if the audience isn't shown the intrigue.
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Nov 10, 2010 21:10
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There is nothing inherently wrong with the Trade Federation having senator seats, because we don't know how the political system works. The problem is that we're not told anything about the politics, except that it's corrupt. If you want a gripping story you need to introduce your audience to a simple system and show examples of corruption. It is that whole jazz of being internally consistent.
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Nov 10, 2010 21:40
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Namarrgon posted:There is nothing inherently wrong with the Trade Federation having senator seats, because we don't know how the political system works. The problem is that we're not told anything about the politics, except that it's corrupt. If you want a gripping story you need to introduce your audience to a simple system and show examples of corruption. It is that whole jazz of being internally consistent. Right. In the US we don't have the the senator from Wyoming sitting next to the senator from Macy's, but it's not inherently preposterous for commerce to have representation in government. The British East India company in a famous example, and the US constitution contains a (mostly disused) provision which allows congress to grant letters of marque, essentially making a private business of naval warfare. For that matter, it's possible that the Trade Federation is simply the Hong Kong to the Republic's PRC. The very fact that the Trade Federation senators speaks in public on galactic C-SPAN makes it less likely to be in-universe corruption, since by definition corruption is something illegal that you do in the shadows. Conversely, Star Wars has done corruption very well on film in the past. Vader simultaneously bribes and extorts the (presumably) legitimate governor of Cloud City to capture Han. Didn't even need long expository parliamentary speeches.
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Nov 10, 2010 21:56
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It's also important to keep in mind that it's not planets that enter into the Republic, but "Systems", which could be single planets or groups of planets. Considering all the Trade Federation members we see are the same race, it's likely that the "Trade Federation" as we see it are a system of planets that are part of the same "government" and used commerce as a way to generate funds. So you're not just seeing a company in the Senate, it's like you're seeing a country in the UN that deals in commerce with lots of different countries. edit: That's a lot of quotation marks.
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Nov 10, 2010 22:03
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Duckula posted:Has this been posted yet? I don't know I think this ad is kind of awesome. Well, maybe not awesome, but it did make me smile!
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Nov 10, 2010 22:38
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Epi Lepi posted:I don't know I think this ad is kind of awesome. Well, maybe not awesome, but it did make me smile! I'm willing to say that that ad was awesome. It was more Star Warsy than all the prequels combined.
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Nov 10, 2010 23:12
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Captain von Trapp posted:You're really going to love the deleted scene in the first minute of this. Basically, Anakin and Obi-Wan witness a dear friend murdered before their eyes and immediately perform a Marx Brothers routine. Wait, what the hell is this? They easily cut their way into a vat of toilet disinfectant that's unstable enough to blow up if shot, but won't explode when a red-hot piece of deck plating falls into it. For safety, the vat has a bunch of lightning generators in it to ensure it explodes when you least want it to, and a blade that cuts through anything can be used to weld a hatch shut well enough to withstand the force of toilet disinfectant exploding violently enough to frag half the ship. Even without the Shak-Ti portion, that entire segment is loving retarded.
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Nov 10, 2010 23:33
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NeonTurtle posted:Wait, what the hell is this? They easily cut their way into a vat of toilet disinfectant that's unstable enough to blow up if shot, but won't explode when a red-hot piece of deck plating falls into it. For safety, the vat has a bunch of lightning generators in it to ensure it explodes when you least want it to, and a blade that cuts through anything can be used to weld a hatch shut well enough to withstand the force of toilet disinfectant exploding violently enough to frag half the ship. Even without the Shak-Ti portion, that entire segment is loving retarded. I love so much about that scene. It's almost an elaborate troll of nonsense. I just noticed this time how Shak-Ti's hands aren't even bound. Yes, you have an incredibly powerful telepathic warror unfettered, and two of the other most powerful telepathic warriors are right there, and she's not even handcuffed. Also, you then proceed to wave her weapon around, which she's guarded by enemies with only melee attacks. I don't see why she didn't just force speed jump right over to anakin and obiwan, and then grab her saber from Grevious.
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Nov 10, 2010 23:43
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Jerk McJerkface posted:I love so much about that scene. It's almost an elaborate troll of nonsense. I just noticed this time how Shak-Ti's hands aren't even bound. Yes, you have an incredibly powerful telepathic warror unfettered, and two of the other most powerful telepathic warriors are right there, and she's not even handcuffed. Also, you then proceed to wave her weapon around, which she's guarded by enemies with only melee attacks. I don't see why she didn't just force speed jump right over to anakin and obiwan, and then grab her saber from Grevious. Oh poo poo, you're right! *Adds straitjacket in post*
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Nov 10, 2010 23:56
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BBC reports that there is a new game coming in 2011 that makes use of Kinect on Xbox. http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/11720937
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Nov 11, 2010 01:40
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Bonzo posted:BBC reports that there is a new game coming in 2011 that makes use of Kinect on Xbox.
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Nov 11, 2010 01:44
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Here's the TFN article with the E3 video, I guess it doesn't matter if there won't be another TFU game, this one will probably pick up where it left off in terms of absurdity. http://www.theforce.net/latestnews/story/more_kinect_star_wars_footage_131902.asp
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Nov 11, 2010 02:22
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Jerk McJerkface posted:I love so much about that scene. It's almost an elaborate troll of nonsense. It's not like the scene left in was any better, where Grievous gloats on the bridge and everyone has weapons pointed at them point blank...and then all the ROBOTS get distracted when Artoo makes a bunch of noise.
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Nov 11, 2010 03:17
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Fox of Stone posted:Well, that certainly explains the Anakin origin story. "I'm a Toydarian. Birth control don't work on me, only money."
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Nov 11, 2010 03:26
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Mister Roboto posted:It's not like the scene left in was any better, where Grievous gloats on the bridge and everyone has weapons pointed at them point blank...and then all the ROBOTS get distracted when Artoo makes a bunch of noise. No, believe me I wasn't saying that it was better than the other scene. The whole sequence makes no sense, from the end of the crawl to the crash landing of the frigate. It's like a four year old wrote it.
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Nov 11, 2010 04:41
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Duckula posted:Has this been posted yet? For those of you fortunate enough to miss that album....gently caress YOU, SUFFER WITH THE REST OF US https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSWCQ7ALEms
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Nov 11, 2010 05:44
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SeanBeansShako posted:"I'm a Toydarian. Birth control don't work on me, only money." Hmmmm, now I'm curious. How old is Watto and how old do Toydarians stay potent and why the hell am I asking these questions?
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Nov 11, 2010 05:58
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Rev. Bleech_ posted:For those of you fortunate enough to miss that album....gently caress YOU, SUFFER WITH THE REST OF US Don't forget about Jon Bon Jovi's first professionally released recording: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8osDkQcmFk
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Nov 11, 2010 06:13
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So I'd like to give the unpopular opinion here: I really enjoyed Force Unleashed 2. It was shorter than it really should have been, and the Vader fight was obnoxiously long, but I had a lot of fun with it. Sure they didn't resolve anything - and it was really tiring hearing Starkiller yell "Juno!" the entire freaking game - but I'd say it was about what I was expecting. gently caress those god drat droids with shields though. I will say that as someone who always plays Light Side, and for who TFU1/2 was no exception, that the Dark Side ending was SO much superior in this game. I really didn't expect anything other than what happened, but the entire scene was a better overall ending for the game than the ughhh Light Side ending. For a game where every other tag word was "BOBA FETT" he had all of like a minute of actual time in the game though. I'm honestly not shocked that they canned the third game. My favorite part of the entire game was the extremely close camera angled cinema cuts before the Vader fight. It's how the scene would have been handled in a movie, so I thought it was a nifty idea. I guess it's almost too much to ask for an awesome new Star Wars game, isn't it? I mean something they put time and effort into that Lucas doesn't just poo poo all over?
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Nov 11, 2010 07:52
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Tensokuu posted:
This is why we're still holding our fingers crossed for TOR. I'm afraid all hope is lost though.
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Nov 11, 2010 08:52
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LLJKSiLk posted:Well, it would ruin the pacing of the story to spend valuable (heh) amounts of screen time devoted to Senate dealings at the expense of pew pew lasers and lightsabers. And yet Phantom Menace was made.
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Nov 11, 2010 08:54
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Chairman Capone posted:It was more Star Warsy than all the prequels combined.  It really isn't don't keep doing this.
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Nov 11, 2010 09:11
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Rev. Bleech_ posted:For those of you fortunate enough to miss that album....gently caress YOU, SUFFER WITH THE REST OF US Every december I roll with this and the Holiday Special at some point for god knows what reason.
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Nov 11, 2010 17:10
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Tensokuu posted:I guess it's almost too much to ask for an awesome new Star Wars game, isn't it? I mean something they put time and effort into that Lucas doesn't just poo poo all over? I'm convinced that, since Lucasarts hasn't made a flight sim since X-Wing Alliance, they actually literally hate their fans. In short, their next game should be a flight sim. I honestly, truly and fully do not understand why they haven't made a new one--for god's sake the video game media almost unanimously consider Tie Fighter to be one of the best games ever made.
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Nov 11, 2010 17:46
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Directorman posted:I'm convinced that, since Lucasarts hasn't made a flight sim since X-Wing Alliance, they actually literally hate their fans. Because there is no longer a massive, easily advertised market for such a game? I mean outside of Flight Simulator X I can't think of any major flight sim games that have dropped in the last few years. The Star Wars franchise is all about making $$$ for minimal effort by exploiting a love for the setting. So why would they gently caress that up by making an expensive game that will likely never make money back when they could just release more horrible, horrible books.
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Nov 11, 2010 17:50
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Directorman posted:I'm convinced that, since Lucasarts hasn't made a flight sim since X-Wing Alliance, they actually literally hate their fans. I remember loading into XWing VS Tie Fighter a few years ago. I managed to get up enough friends who had a copy for us to run a mission with 4 of us playing Imperial pilots vs AI. It was pretty fun.
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Nov 11, 2010 17:55
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Barudak posted:Because there is no longer a massive, easily advertised market for such a game? I mean outside of Flight Simulator X I can't think of any major flight sim games that have dropped in the last few years. I don't think it needs to be approached (or marketed) as a pure flight sim. Why can't they take the general model of a game like Call Of Duty and apply it to spaceship combat? Rather than running around in a huge environment as a soldier and fragging other soldiers, you're flying around in a spaceship and fragging other spaceships. Missions, leveling up with experience, perks, weapons, etc.. could all work virtually the same as in a COD-style first-person shooter. Of course, I realize that's not the game everyone would want, but it seems like that's exactly what my friends and I end up talking about when we wish for a new X-Wing vs TIE Fighter kind of game.
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Nov 11, 2010 19:04
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Why isn't there a market for something that has literally no present competition? And with a Star Wars sticker slapped on, it ought to sell fairly well anyway. Also level design is pretty much non-existent, what with everything going on in empty space. Of course, this is where the COD style thing becomes difficult. The maps would probably be somewhat repetitive without missions. Someone should write an angry letter to LucasArts demanding a new flight sim.
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Nov 11, 2010 19:23
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Sith Happens posted:I don't think it needs to be approached (or marketed) as a pure flight sim. Why can't they take the general model of a game like Call Of Duty and apply it to spaceship combat? Rather than running around in a huge environment as a soldier and fragging other soldiers, you're flying around in a spaceship and fragging other spaceships. Missions, leveling up with experience, perks, weapons, etc.. could all work virtually the same as in a COD-style first-person shooter. Jump to Lightspeed wasn't bad for what it was. I'd play the hell out of a game that let you fly random ships in Star Wars, including multiple-player ships where you could have a navigator, co-pilot, whatever. Also having to do repairs real-time which would require someone coming off of a gun turret or something.
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Nov 11, 2010 19:24
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BonHair posted:Why isn't there a market for something that has literally no present competition? And with a Star Wars sticker slapped on, it ought to sell fairly well anyway. It lacks competition because there isn't a market for it, like at all. X3 and Freelancer were like the last two big name games in the genre and they didn't exactly sell like hot cakes. No one is making Space-Shooters, much less Space-Shooter Simulators for that explicit reason. Its pretty much a dead market, again outside of a small hardcore base who seem to really just dig simulations of real aircraft. I mean, yes, I'd love a new tie-fighter game but at the end of the day Lucas Arts knows that crapping out another mass-market game is more valuable monetarily than making a good space simulator. Barudak fucked around with this message at 19:32 on Nov 11, 2010 |
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Nov 11, 2010 19:30
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I'm amazed they never made a Starcraft clone with Star Wars. I'm also amazed they never made a jRPG-styled game with Star Wars. Both of which would sell.
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Nov 11, 2010 20:03
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Mister Roboto posted:I'm amazed they never made a Starcraft clone with Star Wars. They made an AOEII clone, if that counts. 
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Nov 11, 2010 20:14
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sniper4625 posted:They made an AOEII clone, if that counts. A decent game if you can ignore the hilariously silly scaling of AT-AT's and normal troops.
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Nov 11, 2010 21:51
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Can someone tell me what the image was for shadows of the empire in the op? Its not working.
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Nov 12, 2010 00:40
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