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Defleshed posted:Sworn in as a 1st Lieutenant in the Army Reserve JAG today, Veteran's Day! You'll always be sarge to me <3
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Nov 12, 2010 00:39
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Defleshed posted:Sworn in as a 1st Lieutenant in the Army Reserve JAG today, Veteran's Day! Congratulations! I hope you can wait 'till the spring to go to Charlottesville.
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Nov 12, 2010 00:57
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Tetrix posted:I don't really know the answer to your question, but with a quick google search: This is perfect. Thank you so much.
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Nov 12, 2010 01:52
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So...there might possibly potentially could kind of be a permanent job at the end of this temp job? It's far from a sure thing - I'd have to apply for it and interview with people I haven't met yet, and I don't technically have the relevant experience (it's a copywriting position and all I know is legal writing but it's better than nothing) and I'd probably be competing with laid-off people from the field and a bunch of fresh english majors without the JD albatross hanging around their necks (or the 17 months of unemployment albatross for that matter) but still - I'm applying from inside the company which gives me a small amount of priority, plus I'll have a referral or two from some of the people I've been working for so...yeah I dunno I kind of don't even want to mention it lest I get my hopes up (not that I remember what that feels like) but this is the closest shot I've had at a job so far and it would be positively stellar if I got it because it's a writing job and writing was the only part of the whole lawyer thing that appealed to me anyway. I really should not have gone to law school, I can't believe nobody talked me out of it. I also can't believe that at no point in the process of qualification to become a lawyer does "desire to be a lawyer" ever factor in. blow up all the law schools, that's what i say
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Nov 12, 2010 03:17
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Question: is it worth taking over a $100,000/year pay cut for a 9-6, Monday through Friday job?
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Nov 12, 2010 03:38
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Mookie posted:Question: is it worth taking over a $100,000/year pay cut for a 9-6, Monday through Friday job? If it's a pay cut from 200k to 100k then yeah, it might be (assuming you've got your debts paid off). If it's from 150k to 50k. Ehh...
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Nov 12, 2010 03:51
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No. You're potentially losing out on far more $ in the future.
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Nov 12, 2010 03:57
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Mookie posted:Question: is it worth taking over a $100,000/year pay cut for a 9-6, Monday through Friday job? Depends on what the 100k is a cut from and how many hours that frees up, but the answer is almost certainly that you'll be happier based on like every study ever about what actually makes people happy.
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Nov 12, 2010 04:29
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CmdrSmirnoff posted:If it's a pay cut from 200k to 100k then yeah, it might be (assuming you've got your debts paid off). This sounds like a reasonable point to me. I think we need to know more about the new job Mookie. Money isn't everything etc etc but you might be proposing a pretty substantial cut.
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Nov 12, 2010 04:55
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On an unrelated note: If anyone here has experience writing a 3 (ish) page prospectus for a piece of writing (comment, article etc) I'd love to ask you some questions and get some info on what makes for a good little thing to turn in. I have to give a prof I'm working with something saying wtf it is I'll be doing and questions I want to tackle by Monday.
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Nov 12, 2010 04:57
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evilweasel posted:Depends on what the 100k is a cut from and how many hours that frees up, but the answer is almost certainly that you'll be happier based on like every study ever about what actually makes people happy. Yes, although - Mookie.
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Nov 12, 2010 05:32
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Defleshed posted:Sworn in as a 1st Lieutenant in the Army Reserve JAG today, Veteran's Day! Good work dude! I have packets in for Army and AF, should be hearing from both in December or January. Hope everything goes well for you.
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Nov 12, 2010 06:05
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Petey posted:Yes, although - Mookie. Yeah basically. It'd be a drop from approximately $275,000 a year (after bonuses, etc.) doing general litigation, at about 2750 hours a year give or take (depends on travel/trials). The possible other job is a smaller appellate-only shop that would pay all-in about $140,000. Plus, appellate law blows to deal with.
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Nov 12, 2010 06:08
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J Miracle posted:Hey you gotta try something, a guy deserves a vigorous defense even if he's guilty as poo poo. You'd want your lawyer to try poo poo, not just give up because "the judge is never gonna let us exclude this." Oh yeah I'm not saying it's any failure of the defense attorney to be rigorous. I certainly would challenge anything the police had to say if I had an argument that my rights were violated. It's just that most of the time the police didn't actually subvert the Constitution when they found Defendant Whoever's bag of weed or pulled him over with his .25 BAC.
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Nov 12, 2010 06:14
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Mookie posted:Yeah basically. I dunno, man, it depends on what makes you happy. I would jump at a chance to work 50ish hours a week for almost 150 a year, because you can have a lot of fun doing other things (like returning videotapes) while still making bank. If I were in your shoes it'd be no question. But every person has a different work life balance, and some people eschew that balance because they're all about work. The only thing I'll say is - if you ever want a life outside the law, then maybe this is a good time to take it, to unlearn what it's like to only live and breathe law. I know some older lawyers who were in biglaw for so long that they never knew how to not work crazy hours and they could never function outside of biglaw. You've made some money, and you'll continue to make money - but now's a chance to relearn how to be a normal human being, if that's something you someday want in your future.
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Nov 12, 2010 06:23
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Mookie posted:Yeah basically. Also, this study says that happiness derived from income drops off precipitously after $75,000.
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Nov 12, 2010 06:44
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Mookie posted:"I want to [1]make NY level pay, [2]bill 1900 hours a year, work only with [3]nice people on [4]interesting tasks, and [5]have tons of prestige?" So how does each one score on the Mookie law student dreamin' (M-LSD) scale?
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Nov 12, 2010 12:07
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Mookie posted:Plus, appellate law blows to deal with. Wrong! You sit in judgment of the puny litigators that hosed up the case. If you lose, it is because of something dumb that they did. If you win, it is exclusively due you your superior appellate skills. You have weeks to work on a brief, and as much prep time to bill for as a trial getting ready for oral argument, but the oral argument is over in a half hour. Then you take some time off to recover from the "pressure" and creep back into the office to begin reading transcripts again in a few days. Nobody bothers you, nobody calls you, and you are in your own little cozy appellate world. Nothing better.
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Nov 12, 2010 12:31
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Solomon Grundy posted:Wrong! You sit in judgment of the puny litigators that hosed up the case. If you lose, it is because of something dumb that they did. If you win, it is exclusively due you your superior appellate skills. You have weeks to work on a brief, and as much prep time to bill for as a trial getting ready for oral argument, but the oral argument is over in a half hour. Then you take some time off to recover from the "pressure" and creep back into the office to begin reading transcripts again in a few days. Nobody bothers you, nobody calls you, and you are in your own little cozy appellate world. Nothing better. Now THIS sounds like the Mookie I know and
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Nov 12, 2010 13:43
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TheAttackSlug posted:Good work dude! I have an Active Duty packet in for this board with Army. Here's hoping! Mookie posted:Yeah basically. Do it man! Like Petey said everyone is different, but my current 9-5 pays half what your potential 9-5 would and I am happier than a pig in poo poo. I may not be driving a Murcielago or wearing suits custom tailored by Bangladeshi slave children, but combined with my wife's income we make a good living and have plenty of free time and spare money. I'd be happy as hell to make more, but I honestly wouldn't take a high stress high billable firm job if I were offered one even if the salary was what you make now. Defleshed fucked around with this message at 14:29 on Nov 12, 2010 |
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Nov 12, 2010 14:21
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Mookie posted:Question: is it worth taking over a $100,000/year pay cut for a 9-6, Monday through Friday job? No. You have to make partner so we have someone to tell us what it's like. evilweasel posted:Depends on what the 100k is a cut from and how many hours that frees up, but the answer is almost certainly that you'll be happier based on like every study ever about what actually makes people happy. Or this. After a certain amount of money everyone is happier with more time. Unless you really love the sweatshop you're at (2700 hours  ) I think this is a good deal.That said I see people getting caught up in what they're doing all the time. One of the things that I think NY firms have done incredibly well is defining what the game is about. For whatever reason they've been tremendously successful in making it about money. For associates, it's salary. For partners it's profits per partner. The D.C. firms have done done alright by making it about being a little kinder and gentler and doing interesting appellate and regulatory work. Anyway, I'm just saying I hope you don't get sucked in too. If you're happy with the work you're doing, your salary and your advancement potential then stay. If you'd rather do different work, work fewer hours or don't think you'll be made partner then leave. Don't stay just because of the perception that working at a particular firm or doing a particular kind of law is more prestigious.
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Nov 12, 2010 16:04
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evilweasel posted:Depends on what the 100k is a cut from and how many hours that frees up, but the answer is almost certainly that you'll be happier based on like every study ever about what actually makes people happy. Mookie posted:Yeah basically. Solomon Grundy posted:Wrong! You sit in judgment of the puny litigators that hosed up the case. If you lose, it is because of something dumb that they did. If you win, it is exclusively due you your superior appellate skills. You have weeks to work on a brief, and as much prep time to bill for as a trial getting ready for oral argument, but the oral argument is over in a half hour. Then you take some time off to recover from the "pressure" and creep back into the office to begin reading transcripts again in a few days. Nobody bothers you, nobody calls you, and you are in your own little cozy appellate world. Nothing better.
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Nov 12, 2010 16:30
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Mookie posted:Yeah basically. I would not take that kind of pay cut early in my career. I would rather work hard and retire early. That's my plan at least. If you're in NY or other high COL city then 140k isn't really that much after taxes and especially if you have high student loan debt.
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Nov 12, 2010 16:49
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Solomon Grundy posted:Wrong! You sit in judgment of the puny litigators that hosed up the case. If you lose, it is because of something dumb that they did. If you win, it is exclusively due you your superior appellate skills. You have weeks to work on a brief, and as much prep time to bill for as a trial getting ready for oral argument, but the oral argument is over in a half hour. Then you take some time off to recover from the "pressure" and creep back into the office to begin reading transcripts again in a few days. Nobody bothers you, nobody calls you, and you are in your own little cozy appellate world. Nothing better.
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Nov 12, 2010 17:10
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poofactory posted:I would not take that kind of pay cut early in my career. I would rather work hard and retire early. That's my plan at least. If you're in NY or other high COL city then 140k isn't really that much after taxes and especially if you have high student loan debt. I'd much rather have time and money when I'm young and time and money when I'm old than lots of money but no time when I'm young and lots of time and money when I'm old.
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Nov 12, 2010 17:12
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poofactory posted:I would not take that kind of pay cut early in my career. I would rather work hard and retire early. That's my plan at least. If you're in NY or other high COL city then 140k isn't really that much after taxes and especially if you have high student loan debt. But as someone mentioned above, by the time you got to old age you're potentially a broken human being.
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Nov 12, 2010 17:16
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evilweasel posted:I'd much rather have time and money when I'm young and time and money when I'm old than lots of money but no time when I'm young and lots of time and money when I'm old. It depends on what you define as old. If he's making 275k then he could save nearly half of that each year with good planning. After 10 years in safe investments, he could walk away with 2-3M. If he's in his 20s now, he can quit at 40.
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Nov 12, 2010 17:31
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Mookie posted:Yeah basically. Is one hour of free time worth $140 to you? If so, take the lower job.
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Nov 12, 2010 17:32
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Mookie posted:Yeah basically. The answer is yes, but not this job. Don't take a $100,000 pay cut for a job where you affirmatively dislike the subject matter. It doesn't make sense, because I think there are other $150k per year jobs out there for someone like you where you probably would not hate the subject matter. You don't have to love every minute of it, but I could see being resentful if I stepped away from $100k for a 9-6 where I hated most of the eight hours each day.
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Nov 12, 2010 17:44
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poofactory posted:It depends on what you define as old. If he's making 275k then he could save nearly half of that each year with good planning. After 10 years in safe investments, he could walk away with 2-3M. If he's in his 20s now, he can quit at 40. The thing is, there's a certain lifestyle demanded at different salary levels that might make this increasingly difficult. See, for example, the prof who was  about only making a million and how he can't afford to pay for the OBAMATAX after his vacations and cars and maids and private schools are paid off.Now I don't know Mookie's home situation, but it's a lot easier to say "no" to your kids and wife (with respect to certain perks of upper crust life) when you're making $140k than when you're making 275. Besides, 2-3m at 40, assuming you've got a good 30 years left to live and with no additional income, isn't that great. Especially if your family is used to the bourgeoisie life. Chances are he'd have to take a minor job or play the market or something, which really defeats the point of retirement. edit: I agree with Slyfrog though; if you hate the job don't loving do it CmdrSmirnoff fucked around with this message at 17:49 on Nov 12, 2010 |
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Nov 12, 2010 17:47
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I don't deserve to be giving Mookie advice but I will say that the job he's considering is roughly analogous to the path I tried to shape throughout law school. Now I've got a job waiting for me (provided nothing falls through which it well might) that fits that need perfectly. It doesn't pay market but it pays plenty and it's an 1800 billable requirement firm that does the work I think I like to do in a place where it costs nothing to live. I always knew I wanted something like that even though it runs counter to what most people seem to want in school.
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Nov 12, 2010 18:16
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NJ Deac posted:Headhunter stuff. I got another call from a separate headhunter today about the same position that the first headhunter was offering. I told her I wasn't interested in order to not create any potential conflicts with the first guy. Still, I'm betting this means the firm just listed the position recently, and all of the recruiters/headhunters are scrambling over one another to find anyone with relevant qualifications. In other words, my chances are slim/nil and it's probably nothing worth getting excited over. Hard to complain I guess, seeing as I'm still employed, happy, and able to make my student loan payments.
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Nov 12, 2010 18:59
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Mookie -- Not a lawyer here, but want to chime in. Since I'm working in Baghdad this year, I'm making roughly double what I usually do. I'm also working close to double the hours. There is no way out of it for me except to finish the year (about halfway done now) but I wouldn't do it again; the money is not nearly worth the time (and time away from family). And I make waaaay less than you do now. The work is good, though, so at least I'm not dying inside. . . . Just my $0.02
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Nov 12, 2010 21:45
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I think I want to be unemployed again. Being a lawyer sucks.
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Nov 13, 2010 16:06
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HooKars posted:I think I want to be unemployed again. Being a lawyer sucks. This needs to go in the OP, with the context that HooKars has been struggling to get work for a long time, and she went to U.Va., which is a somewhat decent school.
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Nov 13, 2010 16:10
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Business of Ferrets posted:
Biglaw: kind of like living in Baghdad.
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Nov 13, 2010 16:33
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HooKars posted:I think I want to be unemployed again. Being a lawyer sucks. Did you see that opening at the ABA I posted about a while back come be a lawyer in a really chill environment in Chicago (also get IBR)
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Nov 13, 2010 16:35
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Defleshed posted:Did you see that opening at the ABA I posted about a while back come be a lawyer in a really chill environment in Chicago (also get IBR) Is anyone here actually on IBR? It's 10 year forgiveness for non-profit/pubic and 25 years for private sector right? My plan is to go on IBR whether I'm in the public, private, or homeless sectors. In fact, I'm trying to get my financial aid office to take my loans out of deferment while I'm in my last semester of law school so I can make ~8 $0 payments towards the 10 year IBR loan forgiveness - my last semester is part-time, I'll be working at a non-profit, and last year's income on my tax return was -$3,000. I might as well take advantage while my tax returns show I'm one of the poorest people in the US even though I can pay rent with my loans.
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Nov 13, 2010 17:24
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blar posted:Is anyone here actually on IBR? It's 10 year forgiveness for non-profit/pubic and 25 years for private sector right? According to this calculator, I'll ultimately repay about $49,000 of the principal balance before everything is discharged. (And a poo poo ton of interest for the next decade, I guess.) That's $49,000 out of $180,000. So the feds have essentially paid for my JD and LLM, and I'm only paying for my BA.
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Nov 13, 2010 17:53
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I'm on IBR too and I don't know what I'd do without it. I owe them over $100,000 and Every now and then the DoE sends me a bill for $0.00 and that's that, they don't even bug me with phone calls the access group on the other hand is a little more passionate about the $50,000 I owe them. Do not borrow private money. There's no need to do it and it's just dumb, borrow federal I hope the republicans don't notice IBR when they're making budget cuts
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Nov 13, 2010 19:19
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