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Roger_Mudd
Jul 18, 2003

Buglord

Defleshed posted:

Sorry there is only one liquor that is :chord: enough for me as an attorney. It is Scotch, and single malt only; none of that blended garbage. You kids run along and pay with your tequila, us grown ups have serious drinking to do. It's the only way to forget what a terrible mistake we've made.

I'm going to a "retreat/boot camp" next month that offers all the single malt scotch I can drink (the scotch has to be old enough to vote).

The best part is, I don't drink.

Want me to fill up some milk jugs for you?

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entris
Oct 22, 2008

by Y Kant Ozma Post

Roger_Mudd posted:

I'm going to a "retreat/boot camp" next month that offers all the single malt scotch I can drink (the scotch has to be old enough to vote).


Holy christ that is expensive. Talk about liquid gold...

Neon Belly
Feb 12, 2008

I need something stronger.

Another article to hand out to those thinking of going to law school.

Some choice quotes.

quote:

Between 1996 and 2008 private law schools’ median tuition fees almost doubled, to just under $34,000 a year.

quote:

biggest firms cut their numbers of attorneys by 4% in 2009 and were projected to cut by another 1.1% in 2010, making for the worst two-year period in the 33 years of the journal’s surveys.

quote:

morale is dismal at many firms...grim market has given rise to a situations-vacant website, shitlawjobs.com

And to take the cake:

quote:

Law schools, of course, disagree that they offer students a bad deal.

And it even gave a new graph to look at!

CmdrSmirnoff
Oct 27, 2005
happy happy happy happy happy happy happy happy happy
Holy poo poo that shitlaw jobs site. There's literally a call center job posted.

edit:
Employment lawyer in Hawaii (okay sounds good so far)

In Need Of A Lawyer A Case Against My Employer. At Work Place There Is a Non Violent Policy. My Employer constantly turns the Work Place into A Hostile Enviroment. I Need A Lawyer To Look Over My Report. Please I Need Help. Compensation: I don't have any money.

:stare:


CmdrSmirnoff fucked around with this message at 22:46 on Nov 16, 2010

entris
Oct 22, 2008

by Y Kant Ozma Post

quote:

My sister and I need a Connecticut-licensed attorney to probate our father's estate and to transfer the ownership of an empty lot he owned in Danbury to ourselves. The lot is worth less than $50,000 and my father's estate had little else. We can pay $400 total for the legal work.

Uh, $400 total for a probate case? Wow.

CmdrSmirnoff
Oct 27, 2005
happy happy happy happy happy happy happy happy happy
Hey hypocrite lecteur, I just saw in LF that you got the job. Congrats buddy.

US duders, the job is here:

GamingOdor
Jun 8, 2001
The stench of chips.

poofactory posted:

gently caress USCIS and their price increases. Every single one of my clients is pushing me to file before the 23rd to avoid the new fees.

Just wait until Friday - most people aren't going to hear about the price increases until then. I'm looking forward to filing I-140's and L-1 visas in 24 hours.

hypocrite lecteur
Aug 21, 2008

by Y Kant Ozma Post

CmdrSmirnoff posted:

Hey hypocrite lecteur, I just saw in LF that you got the job. Congrats buddy.

thanks

I tried to look at it in streetview but I guess the google car hasn't made it to baffin island yet

poofactory
May 6, 2003

by T. Finn

blar posted:

Just wait until Friday - most people aren't going to hear about the price increases until then. I'm looking forward to filing I-140's and L-1 visas in 24 hours.

A rushed job is just going to lead to an RFE. So... more money for us then.

Defleshed
Nov 18, 2004

F is for... FREEDOM

Roger_Mudd posted:

Want me to fill up some milk jugs for you?

Man I am picturing you just pouring glass after glass down a funnel and into a milk jug with my name written on it in Sharpie. This seems like the culmination of all that I have worked for in my life.

Stunt Rock
Jul 28, 2002

DEATH WISH AT 120 DECIBELS

HooKars posted:

I'm in a smaller practice group where the bills are watched. There's some leeway but I can't turn my 10 hours of real billable time into the 16 hours of time I was actually in the office tonight (the last two of which I did absolutely nothing. At least I have bar studying that can get done while I sit around and wait).


The 10 am start time in NYC made this all so much bearable. You could actually still go out (or drink alone) and be totally functional or at least relax until 2 am and still get plenty of sleep. Having to be by in 8 am after getting out so late, this job actually drives me to NOT drink... which is really impressive.

Well if you want to take the MS bar I can hire you and we can found the Ask/Tell Boutique Firm.

GamingHyena
Jul 25, 2003

Devil's Advocate

Roger_Mudd posted:

I'm going to a "retreat/boot camp" next month that offers all the single malt scotch I can drink (the scotch has to be old enough to vote).

The best part is, I don't drink.

Want me to fill up some milk jugs for you?

Is that the foreclosure defense one mentioned in the ABA Journal? I wanted to go as soon as I read about that but my work won't pay $7700 for me to get blasted on high end scotch.

Or are there multiple legal boot camps around the country that offer unlimited alcohol? :ohdear:

Phil Moscowitz
Feb 19, 2007

If blood be the price of admiralty,
Lord God, we ha' paid in full!

atlas of bugs posted:

New Orleans

Hey man, you writing a novel? I'll give it a good read. Charge you 10% less than Romper Billson too.

hahaha

Stunt Rock
Jul 28, 2002

DEATH WISH AT 120 DECIBELS

Phil Moscowitz posted:

Hey man, you writing a novel? I'll give it a good read. Charge you 10% less than Romper Billson too.

hahaha

Phil I come to New Orleans a lot more now and keep forgetting to call you. You could have been my date to OK Go at Tipitina's :sigh:

Phil Moscowitz
Feb 19, 2007

If blood be the price of admiralty,
Lord God, we ha' paid in full!
If you come on a weekday call me and I will treat you to lunch at a place of my choosing.

I still owe somebody here lunch for my avatar. And Scraps the offer for Cochon is still open if you give me tortillas.

Stunt Rock
Jul 28, 2002

DEATH WISH AT 120 DECIBELS

Phil Moscowitz posted:

If you come on a weekday call me and I will treat you to lunch at a place of my choosing.

I still owe somebody here lunch for my avatar. And Scraps the offer for Cochon is still open if you give me tortillas.

If I win this MSJ that is due in 13 days then I'm sure I'll be over there during at least one weekday!

Mookie
Mar 22, 2005

I have to return some videotapes.
No love for my Meatholes trvia? :cry:

billion dollar bitch
Jul 20, 2005

To drink and fight.
To fuck all night.
I was a little weirded out that you knew about that site, about the guy, about the guy's real name, and who his brother is. Is this what you were looking for?

Green Crayons
Apr 2, 2009

Mookie posted:

No love for my Meatholes trvia? :cry:
Is he a client, is that how you know this?


Does he pay you in porn stars? Is that what you use instead of clown hookers or whatever shenanigans Phil debases himself with?

Mookie
Mar 22, 2005

I have to return some videotapes.

billion dollar bitch posted:

I was a little weirded out that you knew about that site, about the guy, about the guy's real name, and who his brother is. Is this what you were looking for?

YES :pervert:

Roger_Mudd
Jul 18, 2003

Buglord

GamingHyena posted:

Is that the foreclosure defense one mentioned in the ABA Journal? I wanted to go as soon as I read about that but my work won't pay $7700 for me to get blasted on high end scotch.

You know my secret! :ssh:

Solomon Grundy
Feb 10, 2007

Born on a Monday
Oh awesome. I finally got the disease that is making my kids barf and crap themselves. On the Tuesday night before a Thursday trial. That my client has already flown in for.

BigHead
Jul 25, 2003
Huh?


Nap Ghost

Solomon Grundy posted:

Oh awesome. I finally got the disease that is making my kids barf and crap themselves. On the Tuesday night before a Thursday trial. That my client has already flown in for.

The Help can't take care of them? You're a lawyer, buy better Help.

Ainsley McTree
Feb 19, 2004


BigHead posted:

The Help can't take care of them? You're a lawyer, buy better Help.

Hola? Is Rosa still alive? No? This is not my day...

Neon Belly
Feb 12, 2008

I need something stronger.

Ainsley McTree posted:

Hola? Is Rosa still alive? No? This is not my day...

I guess you have to comb your own hair.

WhiskeyJuvenile
Feb 15, 2002

by Nyc_Tattoo

Defleshed posted:

Sorry there is only one liquor that is :chord: enough for me as an attorney. It is Scotch, and single malt only; none of that blended garbage. You kids run along and pay with your tequila, us grown ups have serious drinking to do. It's the only way to forget what a terrible mistake we've made.

Tequila, on the other hand, makes everything awesome

Petey
Nov 26, 2005

For who knows what is good for a person in life, during the few and meaningless days they pass through like a shadow? Who can tell them what will happen under the sun after they are gone?
how can anyone have avoided knowing khan tusion

whether you like it or not the internet is his meathole

WhiskeyJuvenile
Feb 15, 2002

by Nyc_Tattoo
cakefarts dot com

e: a friend of mine dated Aria Giovanni his 2L summer instead of trying to get a job. He still had a job after the bar.

WhiskeyJuvenile fucked around with this message at 15:20 on Nov 17, 2010

Ainsley McTree
Feb 19, 2004


Baruch Obamawitz posted:

cakefarts dot com

e: a friend of mine dated Aria Giovanni his 2L summer instead of trying to get a job. He still had a job after the bar.

Did he put it on his resume?

G-Mawwwwwww
Jan 31, 2003

My LPth are Hot Garbage
Biscuit Hider
gently caress mediation. gently caress crazy clients on the other side who refuse to call their insurance adjuster. gently caress getting hometowned. Why am I even doing this poo poo again?

joat mon
Oct 15, 2009

I am the master of my lamp;
I am the captain of my tub.

CaptainScraps posted:

gently caress mediation. gently caress crazy clients on the other side who refuse to call their insurance adjuster. gently caress getting hometowned. Why am I even doing this poo poo again?

Because oral argument or a reversal or a closing or a good cross is better than a date with Aria Giovanni.
OK, a really good cross.

Besides, welders don't date Aria Giovanni and they're dead from cancer by the time they're 45.

Linguica
Jul 13, 2000
You're already dead

Baruch Obamawitz posted:

a friend of mine dated Aria Giovanni his 2L summer instead of trying to get a job. He still had a job after the bar.
Honestly this is probably more impressive than being a dumb summer associate, shows he's good with client contact :pervert:

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Solomon Grundy posted:

Oh awesome. I finally got the disease that is making my kids barf and crap themselves. On the Tuesday night before a Thursday trial. That my client has already flown in for.
Real lawyers try cases while vomiting in the garbage can next to counsel table. Jury sympathy.

Elotana
Dec 12, 2003

and i'm putting it all on the goddamn expense account
Law thread what is the best plan to study for the patent bar. I have a month left to take it and I don't want to spend a lot of money on a self-prep course (I'll buy secondhand materials off eBay if someone recommends their books specifically but that's about it).

Petey
Nov 26, 2005

For who knows what is good for a person in life, during the few and meaningless days they pass through like a shadow? Who can tell them what will happen under the sun after they are gone?

Baruch Obamawitz posted:

cakefarts dot com

e: a friend of mine dated Aria Giovanni his 2L summer instead of trying to get a job. He still had a job after the bar.

now that's a soft

Linguica
Jul 13, 2000
You're already dead

Elotana posted:

Law thread what is the best plan to study for the patent bar. I have a month left to take it and I don't want to spend a lot of money on a self-prep course (I'll buy secondhand materials off eBay if someone recommends their books specifically but that's about it).
just memorize the mpep :rolleyes:

atlas of bugs
Aug 19, 2003

BOOTSTRAPPING
MILLIONAIRE
ONE-PERCENTER

Phil Moscowitz posted:

Hey man, you writing a novel? I'll give it a good read. Charge you 10% less than Romper Billson too.

hahaha

grad school application essays

don't be mean :(

srsly
Aug 1, 2003

Don'tgonojobsdiealone story hits locally.

I went to school with this girl and she worked in our office.

http://www.news10.net/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=106260&catid=2&GID=xbnknwelvYtY8la8feObgB/op4Knf9dkvCl1RlW1CGQ%3D

Link includes 4 minute video news story.

quote:

Volunteer attorneys fill in for Sacramento public defender after budget cuts

SACRAMENTO - After a round of deep budget cuts this summer, the Sacramento County Public Defender's Office found itself painfully short on a crucial component: attorneys. Their temporary solution was to enlist the help of several attorneys who worked for free.

Corin Ford, 26, was one of them.

"This opportunity came along, and I thought why not give it a whirl?" said the UC Davis law school graduate.

It wasn't exactly the way she'd drawn up her career plans. After working a few months as a legal research assistant in the Sacramento County Public Defender's Office, Ford was one of 34 staffers laid off following county budget cuts in June.

Out of work and with $100,000 of debt from law school hanging over her head, Ford began drawing unemployment checks to help make ends meet. Then, there was a measure of consolation. Her office, trying desperately to meet trial obligations following the budget cuts, extended offers to several of their laid-off employees.

The deal: take on a few cases and get experience in the courtroom, but without pay.

Ford, along with nine other attorneys, took the offer. From late Summer through the Fall, the public defender's office relied on those 10 lawyers to give free trial service to defendants who, in turn, could not afford to hire private counsel.

"I feel like the most exciting thing is being in the courtroom and arguing in front of a jury," said Ford, thankful for the opportunity to build her resume as a lawyer.

Her first trial, a DUI case, was a success. Ford got her client out of trouble by virtue of a hung jury.

"I can get a jury to like me and I can get them to listen to my story," said Ford, her confidence growing after several trips in front of a judge and jury.

In the end, however, reality caught up with her and the other volunteer lawyers. Without a source of strong income, Ford quickly ran short on cash. After three months of defending clients for free, Ford had to resign.

She packed up her East Sacramento apartment and went home to Chico, to live with her parents and look for steady employment.

"Anything," she said. "Retail, food service. Whatever I can find. I'm sad that I haven't been able to find any work so far. When I started law school, I really didn't think I'd be here. I didn't worry about taking out 100 grand in debt, which is naive."


"Almost a third of my staff was cut, of attorneys," said Paulino Duran, the chief public defender of Sacramento County. "That is extremely significant."

Duran said it's nothing new for lawyers to work in court and have a secondary job during their off-hours. However, circumstances have never been so severe in his department that he's had to rely on volunteer attorneys.

Despite the cuts, his obligations remain the same.

"You're being asked to do more," he said. "We have to provide effective assistance at counsel, that's the standard."

Without volunteer help through the Summer from out-of-work lawyers like Ford, Duran would have been faced with an even more dire situation.

"To have 10 attorneys give me their time from July through October, you have to be committed to what we do," said Duran. "You have to believe in what we do."

Belief wasn't the problem for people like Ford, but money was.

With a massive law school debt, she could no longer afford to work in court without pay. She handled her final case in late October. Around the same time, the last of the volunteer attorneys left the Public Defender's office.

Her first 18 months out of law school have dampened her ambition.

"I would like to say, 'yeah, it's definitely going to happen. Give me three months and I'll be set up somewhere,'" said Ford, talking about landing a full-time job with a law firm or public defense office. "Realistically, no, I don't think that's going to happen."

"I'm hopeful," she added. "I do not regret my experience at all."

Duran believes the story of the budget cuts in his office is indicative of the greater problem in a society that faces constant financial cutbacks.

"Part of the American dream is, if you get the higher education, you get a doctorate in law, you're going to be successful. You're going to make good money," he said. "I think the education is good to enrich your life, but you can't count on it anymore to make money. Not now."

His office is not the only legal entity that has been impacted by drastic budget cuts. The Sacramento County District Attorney's office said they're down to only four regular trial attorneys, from their previous level of 14.

Chief Deputy Cynthia Besemer said they've lost 20 percent of their general fund attorneys in the last two years.

Her office also relies on help from volunteer lawyers, though most of them maintain paying jobs either at private law firms, or with state agencies, said Besemer.

NJ Deac
Apr 6, 2006

Elotana posted:

Law thread what is the best plan to study for the patent bar. I have a month left to take it and I don't want to spend a lot of money on a self-prep course (I'll buy secondhand materials off eBay if someone recommends their books specifically but that's about it).

The partners at my firm recently got a bug up their rear end about having all of the associates finish their USPTO registration. Of the four of us studying to take it right now, three of us are using the PLI program (one of us bought the materials on eBay and saved a couple grand, I and another guy paid full sticker price, minus a partial reimbursement from the firm), and one is using Omniprep.

Here was the prevailing wisdom when we were each deciding what course to take:

PLI: The "cadillac" of patent bar prep, or at least it sure is priced like one. This is the one most big firms send their associates to for prep, but it costs around 3 grand. The lectures have been alright, and the material seems pretty decently organized. However, it also tracks the MPEP pretty closely, so it's hard to quantify the value added from the organization provided by the course materials. If you have no background in patent law, this is probably the way to go, but I find myself skimming through a lot of the lectures since I've been doing this for a couple of years already. Definitely worth it if you can find a set of used materials on Ebay or wherever, but I'm not sure about paying full price. If you do decide to buy the retail version, make sure to mention you're an IP Watchdog reader for a 10% discount.

I primarily chose PLI because my firm is tying our bonuses and raises this year to how many tries it takes us to pass the exam, so I didn't want to take any chances with a "lesser" set of materials.

Also, don't worry if you can only find the audio cds. The DVDs are just John White standing in front of a blue background speaking - there's no benefit to watching the videos over listening to the audio on cd or MP3.

PRG/Kayton: Almost as expensive as PLI, and probably about as highly regarded. I didn't consider this program as fully as PLI, so I don't know as much about it, but seems to be in the "upper" tier of prep materials.

Patbar.com: A friend of mine used this program, as did one of the partners at my firm. They each said it was horribly boring and was basically a dude reading out of the MPEP for hours on end. However, they also both passed the first time. The advantage is that it's considerably cheaper than PLI or PRG, but the tradeoff is that it supposedly isn't organized as well.

Omniprep: The cheapest of all, and they offer some kind of pass guarantee. The materials are entirely online, and they verify that you've been through all of the lectures and answered the practice questions. If you do, then they'll give you a 110% refund if you fail the exam. In practice, I'm not sure how worthwhile this guarantee is. I used Micromash to study for the bar exam, and they had a similar guarantee. In order to qualify for the guarantee though, you had to do so much studying and so many practice questions that you'd almost certainly end up studying way more than you needed. I imagine the Omniprep guarantee is similar. My coworker says it's pretty dry/boring, but that's may be more related to the subject matter than the quality of the program.

In short, I think it boils down to how much you're looking to spend and how badly you need to pass the test the first time. PLI is the most highly regarded, possibly swapping with PRG depending upon who you ask, but it'll cost you. Patbar and Omniprep are budget alternatives, but if you need to pass the first time you probably want to skip them unless you already know your way around a file wrapper pretty well.

Also, I hope you've mailed in your application to the PTO, because they take at least a couple of weeks (longer if you're a CS grad from a non-ABET college) to process, and then you have to schedule time at a ProMetric facility (which can be annoyingly difficult if you don't want to drive hours to a remote facility on exam day). The patent bar is no joke, so if you haven't started to study, you need to get on it immediately. Most of the home study programs are about 50 hours of lecture and a ton of sample questions, so if you're going to get through one before the end of the year, you're running out of time.

Ideally, you want to be able to take the old exams listed on the uspto.gov website and get a passing score before you sit for the test itself. I've heard stories of just studying using the free materials provided by the PTO and reading the MPEP, but the failure rate on this test is high enough that you really need to take it seriously.

NJ Deac fucked around with this message at 19:55 on Nov 17, 2010

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in absentia
Mar 20, 2006

Adar posted:


*unless you've already hosed up the interview so badly you've nothing to lose, in which case you may as well go for the reality show gold standard and attempt to become memorable


FYI, this is how I ended up telling two Dorsey partners that their business model was dead. It really does feel good to take a parting jab sometimes.

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