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Captain Hats posted:I'm a bit of a wrestling virgin. If i'm being honest, a LOT of a wrestling virgin. But I saw this weeks Raw at a mate's house, and it got me curious. I'm interested and would like to know more about wrestling, but you guys throw about terms that are way over my head and talk about events and matches that happened years ago and I'm left a bit out in the cold. I found the glossary in here, but are there any matches or events that I absolutely MUST see, any wrestlers I should be especially aware of... Other guys will be better placed to help you with any Japanese/Indy stuff but from the WWF/E must see matches are HBK vs Undertaker (Hell in a cell, WM25 and WM26) for definate. Also Jericho/HBK from WM 19, Mankind vs HBK (IYH Mind games), Royal Rumble 92 for an amazing performance by Ric Flair and the Bret Hart/Steve Austin submission match from WM13 are all superb as well. Most things with HBK are worth a watch to be honest, guy was amazing. Also the Undertaker/Mankind Hell in a Cell match is something that has to be seen to be believed. Insane match. These are all older things but it might pique your interest in the good old days 
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Nov 21, 2010 05:41
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MrMondayNight posted:Other guys will be better placed to help you with any Japanese/Indy stuff but from the WWF/E must see matches are HBK vs Undertaker (Hell in a cell, WM25 and WM26) for definate. Also Jericho/HBK from WM 19, Mankind vs HBK (IYH Mind games), Royal Rumble 92 for an amazing performance by Ric Flair and the Bret Hart/Steve Austin submission match from WM13 are all superb as well. Most things with HBK are worth a watch to be honest, guy was amazing. Also the Undertaker/Mankind Hell in a Cell match is something that has to be seen to be believed. Insane match. These are all older things but it might pique your interest in the good old days I think he's asking more for Wrestling 101, instead of knowing what matches are 5 star classics. ie info on what The Montreal Screwjob is, what was bought out by whom, why Vince Russo sucks, etc.
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Nov 21, 2010 05:48
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Captain Hats posted:I'm a bit of a wrestling virgin. If i'm being honest, a LOT of a wrestling virgin. But I saw this weeks Raw at a mate's house, and it got me curious. I'm interested and would like to know more about wrestling, but you guys throw about terms that are way over my head and talk about events and matches that happened years ago and I'm left a bit out in the cold. I found the glossary in here, but are there any matches or events that I absolutely MUST see, any wrestlers I should be especially aware of... Did you ever watch as a kid, or is it all fresh to you? I ask because a lot of the comparisons we make (like "TNA is the new WCW") will mean nothing to somebody who didn't grow up with at least a cursory knowledge of what WCW was.
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Nov 21, 2010 05:50
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ADRIEN GRODYS FIFE posted:I think he's asking more for Wrestling 101, instead of knowing what matches are 5 star classics. ie info on what The Montreal Screwjob is, what was bought out by whom, why Vince Russo sucks, etc. He did ask about matches he must see but yeah I suppose the basics should come first. Still, at least he will have some good watching while he learns
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Nov 21, 2010 05:55
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Captain Hats posted:I'm a bit of a wrestling virgin. If i'm being honest, a LOT of a wrestling virgin. But I saw this weeks Raw at a mate's house, and it got me curious. I'm interested and would like to know more about wrestling, but you guys throw about terms that are way over my head and talk about events and matches that happened years ago and I'm left a bit out in the cold. I found the glossary in here, but are there any matches or events that I absolutely MUST see, any wrestlers I should be especially aware of... You can look up any terms or wrestlers on wiki and they'll usually have a good formal description actually
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Nov 21, 2010 06:09
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Captain Hats posted:I'm a bit of a wrestling virgin. If i'm being honest, a LOT of a wrestling virgin. But I saw this weeks Raw at a mate's house, and it got me curious. I'm interested and would like to know more about wrestling, but you guys throw about terms that are way over my head and talk about events and matches that happened years ago and I'm left a bit out in the cold. I found the glossary in here, but are there any matches or events that I absolutely MUST see, any wrestlers I should be especially aware of... Watch all of Undertaker's Wrestlemania matches in a row. It won't give you good wrestling (in fact, exactly the opposite in most cases!) but gives you a great idea of the state of wrestling at that point in time.
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Nov 21, 2010 06:37
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You can look up most wrestling lingo in the Rules thread but for the purposes of this rundown, remember that 'Face' = 'good guy' and 'heel' = 'bad guy' There are three 'big' companies WWE Has been the big dog ever since they bought out WCW in 2001. Has moved away from their 'Attitude' style of programming with the OTT sex and violence. For the most part, the change has been positive with more time dedicated to matches and less dangerous/demeaning stuff to the wrestlers. There are a couple of downsides that are VERY notable. One: No blood. EVER. Two: Sometimes the storylines are going for very low-end PG. Almost G. Fortunately, since the big Nexus angle started, this has been scaled back a lot. Top guys John Cena This is the top babyface at the moment. He used to have a rap gimmick but now he's more of a Hulk Hogan lite. Wins against the likes of him are few and far between. You may notice that he gets a fair few boos as well as cheers. This is a tradition that's been going on since 2005. WWE kind of gave him the title before he was ready to get it. He wasn't a very good wrestler at the time and many people thought that others (such as Christian) should have been elevated ahead of him. His matches were bad, he ALWAYS overcame the odds and he wasn't particularly exciting. To make matters worse, with the exception of about 2 months total, he had the title for drat-near 2-and-a-half years. He's improved a lot since them and WH2K has warmed up to him. But there's still that section of the crowd that won't forget Randy Orton This is your joint-top babyface. He's the son of Wrestling Legend 'Cowboy' Bob Orton. He started out as a cocky heel and is now a sociopathic babyface who ends people's careers by kicking them REALLY hard in the head. Yes. I said babyface. Undertaker Not even going to try with this one. Wikipedia will help Kane See: Undertaker Edge Edge was a tag-team specialist for years before finally making his mark as a singles guy. He became known as 'Rated-R' due to his complete sleaziness. He would take any oppourtunity given to him to become a champion. He was the top heel for YEARS. He's now a babyface because he's been around so long that WWE literally can't get anyone to boo him. He's also a psychopathic babyface Main Event Angle An Angle is a storyline just so you know. The BIG one at the moment is the invasion of a group called The Nexus. It started back in februrary when WWE tried to make a faux-Ultimate Fighter style programme involving people from FCW (WWE's developmental territory). For the most part, it was a failure. The rookies were forced to do stupid 'challenges' which often had nothing to do with wrestling and it was clear that a number of them needed more training time before being put on TV. There were notable exceptions. The first of which was Daniel Bryan AKA Bryan Danielson. He'd worked the independent circuit for over 10 years and is widely considered the best technical wrestler in the world. People were confused and slightly annoyed that he was being forced to go through some lovely TUF-lite in order to go to the main roster when he's one of the best. Wade Barrett is another exception. While only passable in the ring, he's honestly one of the best talkers in the business today (he used to work in high-level corporate sales, apparently) Wade Barrett won the show (it was still scripted but he won it) and showed up on the Raw after he won it and said that no-one would ever forget it. He was not incorrect. During a match between the WWE champion and a hated heel from another show (Raw and Smackdown are two separate shows), this happened: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVSUelir4Z0 People were shocked. Something like that had never been done in WWE. You may have noticed the guy in maroon trunks choking a guy with his own tie. That was Bryan Danielson, the afforementioned 'best technical wrestler in the world'. He was legit fired for that because some executive at NBC got pissy about it. Rumour has it that Vince McMahon called him personally to fire him and to apologise for the situation around it. He was promptly written out of the group. For months, Nexus destroyed everything in their path. No-one could stop them and the WWE locker-room didn't trust each other enough to team up to take them on. This changed at Summerslam. It was a 7-on-7 with the team of John Cena, Edge, Chris Jericho, Bret Hart (yup), John Morrison, R-Truth and a returning Daniel Bryan vs. Nexus. Nexus lost (when everyone thought they shouldn't have). The fallout from this event was big. Daniel Bryan was rewarded for his patience about the firing by being given the United States title, where he is currently getting good matches out of everyone he faces. Nexus lost but they bounced back. They switched up some members and became stronger than ever. Cut to the Hell in the Cell PPV two months back. John Cena is the top guy in the company. He made the offer to Barrett that if Cena won a singles match against him, Nexus is done. However, if Barrett wins, Cena joins Nexus. Much to everyone's surprise, Barrett won. The #1 babyface in the entire company is now involved in the top-heel group. This is leading to tonight. It's Randy Orton/Wade Barrett for the title and Cena's the ref. If Barrett wins, Cena's free from Nexus. If Orton wins, Barrett fires Cena. (I won't bother explaining the current Undertaker/Kane angle since Wikipedia will do a much better job than I ever could) Internet ~*DARLINGS*~ These are the WWE wrestlers who have a history of being on the independent scene. They are favourites of ours due to their incredible ability to have a good match with just about ANYONE Daniel Bryan AKA 'American Dragon' Bryan Danielson Considered by many to be the best technical wrestler in the world, Bryan doesn't look like a wrestler. He's pasty, small and a vegan. And he will kick your loving head in. Trained by Shawn Michaels and William Regal, he is a submissions machine. If you watch any MMA, his finisher is an Omoplata-Crossface. He is the cuurrent United States Champion. You asked for notable matches, here's a REALY good match between Bryan and top Japanese Star, KENTA: http://www.viddler.com/explore/Flamineo/videos/42/?secreturl=56610462 CM Punk You ever hung out with THAT Straight-Edge guy? The one who never stops talking about how much better his life is without booze/drugs/smokes? That's CM Punk's character. He started out on the indies and he brought the character over to WWE. He had a World-Title feud with Jeff Hardy, someone who has a history of drug problems. It was feud of the year for 2009 and was absolutely incredible. While not as gifted in-ring as Bryan, he's still VERY good. There you have a current WWE rundown. I'll try and work on TNA and ROH or, if you want more details about WWE, just ask.
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Nov 21, 2010 12:31
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Ziggy Tsardust posted:I'll try and work on TNA and ROH Please don't.
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Nov 21, 2010 13:52
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HotPocketDropIt posted:Please don't. Maybe for TNA I should just copy Jerusalem's "Feast or Fired" description. It'll probably have the same effect.
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Nov 21, 2010 14:04
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Basically, TNA is there so wrestlers don't have to retire with dignity.
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Nov 21, 2010 14:10
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After watching Piper's pit and Wade Barrett's great promos the past few weeks it made me think of two of my favorite. I am an unapologetic Shawn Michaels mark, so having said that... Better Shawn Michaels promo: 1997 after Bad Blood or 2005 in Montreal? The bad blood promo was one of the most unforgettable and uncomfortable to watch promos I have ever seen. The genuine dislike between Bret and Shawn is on screen for everyone to see. But to me the Montreal promo was better. It is of a quality that has not really been seen since. I can't remember a time recently when another WWE worker has had that type of heat.
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Nov 21, 2010 15:11
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BizarroAzrael posted:Basically, TNA is there so wrestlers don't have to retire with dignity. One of my favorite TNA descriptions ever.
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Nov 21, 2010 15:22
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Matlock posted:Watch all of Undertaker's Wrestlemania matches in a row. It won't give you good wrestling (in fact, exactly the opposite in most cases!) but gives you a great idea of the state of wrestling at that point in time. The last four, starting with Batista, have been in loving credible.
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Nov 21, 2010 16:08
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I would say that Matt Sydal was also an "Internet Darling" who is now in the WWE as Evan Bourne.
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Nov 21, 2010 16:47
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Rusty Shackelford posted:I would say that Matt Sydal was also an "Internet Darling" who is now in the WWE as Evan Bourne. Kaval too.
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Nov 21, 2010 16:51
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Captain Hats posted:I'm a bit of a wrestling virgin. If i'm being honest, a LOT of a wrestling virgin. But I saw this weeks Raw at a mate's house, and it got me curious. I'm interested and would like to know more about wrestling, but you guys throw about terms that are way over my head and talk about events and matches that happened years ago and I'm left a bit out in the cold. I found the glossary in here, but are there any matches or events that I absolutely MUST see, any wrestlers I should be especially aware of... This will all determine which wrestling promotion you should be watching for the aspects of wrestling you enjoy. Myself, I'm a very untypical wrestling fan and I'm even suprised that I enjoy wrstling some times, wrestling is incredibally low brow (I'm a fine arts type), but I love the sense of drama and it offers me drama unlike drama anywhere else. So it's typically the story lines and performers that suck me in, Randy Orton drew me back in after I hadn't watched wrstling in about six years just because I lov the way he inhabits his character in the ring, very few performers in the WWE are able to sell themselves to me as an indipendent entity trying to fufill their own goals in the ring and not two people working together to achieve the same goal (the intended finish for the match). So, what do you like about wrestling and what would you like to see more of? As for the lingo, you just pick it up eventually. There are quite a few just becuse there's a lot of stuff in the wrestling industry that needs it's own terms because there isn't a whole lot you can compare it to outside the industry. It is a fascinating industry to learn about though. Sue Denim fucked around with this message at 17:37 on Nov 21, 2010 |
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Nov 21, 2010 17:32
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Web Jew.0 posted:I never had a problem with Irish Whips. If Triple H was about to rip your arm off of course you'd run off with that momentum if you could and try to rebound off the ropes with some kind of an attack. Or slide out of the ring and regroup but doing that all the time isn't very sportsmanlike and moves hurt more with the momentum of rope-running. ah yes. the collar tie. definitely a made up thing.
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Nov 21, 2010 19:23
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The current champions at the moment are... well, you saw this week's RAW, so I'll cover the Smackdown Champions. Kane: Kane is a heel at the moment, though he's spent the vast majority of his career as a tweener (which basically means he wrecked dudes regardless of their face or heelness.) He also buried his brother, The Undertaker, for like the fifth time recently. Kane is the World Heavyweight Champion. Dolph Ziggler: Dolph Ziggler is a douchebag who gets mad ladies. This is his character. Dolph Ziggler is the Intercontinental champion. also the commentary teams at the moment are Cole/King for RAW, Cole/Striker/Grisham for Smackdown, Cole/King/Striker for PPVs, and whoever the hell they have on hand for Superstars and NXT. King is a legend of the wrestling business. In years past he used to a sleazy pervert but he's toned that part of his character down nowadays. For the most part he just makes lame jokes and calls Striker dumb. Cole was a boring announcer for like 10 years, but now he's a heel. He hates Daniel Bryan and The Internet with all his heart and would eat a stinky shoe if you told him The Miz wore it. He is also the Anonymous GM's manservant. Striker is a nerd. He can't go an entire match without referencing either video games, comics, or anime. Basically Striker is what I would be if I was a wrestling commentator. Grisham is a sane man in a world gone insane.
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Nov 21, 2010 19:47
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Jerusalem posted:There was absolutely nothing wrong with Samoa Joe's first loss in TNA, I thought it was extremely suitable that it was Kurt Angle who beat him for the first time. Everything ELSE that happened after that was utterly wrong, of course, but that first loss was handled a shitload better than Goldberg's.
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Nov 21, 2010 21:43
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LividLiquid posted:I agree with this in theory, but it was pretty lovely to have his first loss be from a huge WWE star instead of making somebody who needed to be made from within the company. It made for an awesome match and first Angle feud but it didn't build the company at all or make either guy look better. It just sent the message that TNA's best guy was no match for a dude who was just jobbed out by John Cena. It was Kurt Angle. It wasn't just "a dude who lost to Cena" It was Kurt loving Angle! When he was awesome.
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Nov 21, 2010 21:48
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Endorph posted:Grisham is a sane man in a world gone insane. This is the best point ever made. If WWE were a sitcom, Todd Grisham would be the central protagonist, trying desperately to cling to sanity as everyone else around him loses theirs.
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Nov 21, 2010 22:30
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Manic_Misanthrope posted:It was Kurt Angle. It wasn't just "a dude who lost to Cena" It was Kurt loving Angle! When he was awesome.
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Nov 21, 2010 22:34
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The stigma that Kurt Angle carried in TNA fans' opinion was that he was a badass motherfucker, one of the best wrestlers of his era, and now he was going to wrestle the best wrestler in their company. There was nothing wrong with Angle beating him.
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Nov 21, 2010 22:37
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CVagts posted:The stigma that Kurt Angle carried in TNA fans' opinion was that he was a badass motherfucker, one of the best wrestlers of his era, and now he was going to wrestle the best wrestler in their company. It was no different than Hogan coming into WCW and beating Flair in his first match.
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Nov 21, 2010 22:39
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LividLiquid posted:And won, proving that WWE's best badass was more badass than TNA's best badass. Which at the time, worked.
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Nov 21, 2010 22:45
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LividLiquid posted:I agree with this in theory, but it was pretty lovely to have his first loss be from a huge WWE star instead of making somebody who needed to be made from within the company. It made for an awesome match and first Angle feud but it didn't build the company at all or make either guy look better. It just sent the message that TNA's best guy was no match for a dude who was just jobbed out by John Cena. It could have and should have worked if Joe then proceeded to come back and beat Kurt in their eventual second match 2-3 months down the line, and then a few more months down the line beat him in the rubber match to prove he really was the dominant beast/wrestler he was supposed to be. I felt it was hugely important that they get the unbeaten streak out of the way and then at the same time create a new goal for Joe, which should have been to prove himself by beating Kurt who seriously was considered one of (if not the) very best in the world. Instead he became a stupid fat dumb overweight stupid baby.
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Nov 21, 2010 22:57
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Manic_Misanthrope posted:Which at the time, worked. Flair may have been a smaller name than Hogan, but he was still widely known. Joe was pretty unknown, and Angle coming in and beating him straight off did a lot more harm than beating Flair does.
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Nov 22, 2010 00:51
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Thanks for all the help and advice guys! Now I feel a little bit more confident at least... I at least know that WCW was a separate brand now. Back when I was small and vaguely aware of it through action figures, I honestly thought it was like a subdivision of the WWF.Sue Denim posted:So, what do you like about wrestling and what would you like to see more of? Honestly the thing I enjoyed most about the show was The Miz. He's just such a villain and it's delicious. He's smug, cocky, arrogant and douchey... and it's brilliant to watch. So I guess what I want is more exaggerated characters and back and forths between the wrestlers taunting each other.
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Nov 22, 2010 01:26
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Captain Hats posted:Thanks for all the help and advice guys! Now I feel a little bit more confident at least... I at least know that WCW was a separate brand now. Back when I was small and vaguely aware of it through action figures, I honestly thought it was like a subdivision of the WWF. You would like "Dashing" Cody Rhodes who's on Smackdown
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Nov 22, 2010 01:29
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ChampRamp posted:You would like "Dashing" Cody Rhodes who's on Smackdown Alberto Del Rio on Smackdown is also someone else you should watch
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Nov 22, 2010 01:34
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Captain Hats posted:Honestly the thing I enjoyed most about the show was The Miz. He's just such a villain and it's delicious. He's smug, cocky, arrogant and douchey... and it's brilliant to watch. So I guess what I want is more exaggerated characters and back and forths between the wrestlers taunting each other. Sounds to me like you'll like Cody Rhodes on Smackdown and CM Punk when he gets back from injury. Kane has also been really over-the-top lately and Rey Mysterio is a tiny little man who is basically a superhero. Alex Reily is a good 'stereotype' heel when he gets the chance to be (high-school jock gimmick). Just to correct you slightly, WCW was a separate company. In 1997, they almost completely put WWF out of business. They were making stupid amounts of money. By 2001, they were out of business for various reasons. The main reason being that WWF was creating new stars like Rock, Austin and Mankind while WCW was relying on the same old people from the 80s. Smackdown is a different 'brand'. WWE realised that their roster was too big so they split the roster in half. One half works Raw and the other works Smackdown. They have a draft every year.
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Nov 22, 2010 01:35
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Captain Hats posted:Honestly the thing I enjoyed most about the show was The Miz. Good, good.
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Nov 22, 2010 02:55
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Faxman posted:Alberto Del Rio on Smackdown is also someone else you should watch Let's be honest, he would like all the heels, ever. Just like the rest of Wrestlehut.
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Nov 22, 2010 03:23
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LividLiquid posted:I agree with this in theory, but it was pretty lovely to have his first loss be from a huge WWE star instead of making somebody who needed to be made from within the company. It made for an awesome match and first Angle feud but it didn't build the company at all or make either guy look better. It just sent the message that TNA's best guy was no match for a dude who was just jobbed out by John Cena. everyone except the undertaker's been jobbed out by cena. and undertaker's like 0-3 against kurt angle
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Nov 22, 2010 03:44
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LividLiquid posted:I agree with this in theory, but it was pretty lovely to have his first loss be from a huge WWE star instead of making somebody who needed to be made from within the company. It made for an awesome match and first Angle feud but it didn't build the company at all or make either guy look better. It just sent the message that TNA's best guy was no match for a dude who was just jobbed out by John Cena. TL:DR: gently caress Russo Angle was by far the biggest star in TNA and was recognized as The Guy Who Cannot Be Outwrestled, Only Survived, in real life or kayfabe. This was the one and only guy, practically in all of wrestling, for whom Samoa Joe should have done the job. Accept no substitutes. The trouble begins when they just wait forever to pull the trigger on a Joe title reign until it doesn't matter, while their increasingly awful booking just plummets his stock. Samoa Joe could have been TNA's Goldberg. Better than Goldberg, even. Joe had the respect of all wrestling fans and was at least as great a prospect as CM Punk. He is the biggest symbol of the promotion's failure to get out of its own way.
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Nov 22, 2010 04:54
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Web Jew.0 posted:everyone except the undertaker's been jobbed out by cena. I remember the one match where Angle's almost-identical brother came in and they switched up on Taker.. I wonder why his brother never signed or at least did some sort of program in WWE. Its like he existed for that one moment to screw Taker and that was it
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Nov 22, 2010 05:10
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Supreme Allah posted:I remember the one match where Angle's almost-identical brother came in and they switched up on Taker.. I wonder why his brother never signed or at least did some sort of program in WWE. Its like he existed for that one moment to screw Taker and that was it i think he trained in ovw for a bit but yeah it's kinda ironic that angle trumped undertaker's black magic with street magic
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Nov 22, 2010 05:16
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Captain Hats posted:Honestly the thing I enjoyed most about the show was The Miz. He's just such a villain and it's delicious. He's smug, cocky, arrogant and douchey... and it's brilliant to watch. So I guess what I want is more exaggerated characters and back and forths between the wrestlers taunting each other. You need to watch as much stuff as you can from Chris Jericho's 2007 heel turn, his feud with Shawn Michaels and his tag team with the Big Show.
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Nov 22, 2010 05:21
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Perry Normal posted:You need to watch as much stuff as you can from Chris Jericho's 2007 heel turn, his feud with Shawn Michaels and his tag team with the Big Show. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kq4A1J3CnFY From a couple months ago http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUcTHmZ9luY 13 years ago? Jericho is brilliant. Smug, cocky, intelligent. Note that the first promo I posted, he does all his listing off the top of his head.
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Nov 22, 2010 05:55
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cucka posted:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kq4A1J3CnFY From a couple months ago You're right, I probably could have finished my sentence at the word "Jericho."
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Nov 22, 2010 07:06
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