Windows Home Server Megathread 2.0 - This is why we can't have nice things

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gariig: Dec 31, 2004; Beaten into submission by my fiance; Pillbug

Digital War posted:

Does anyone have any experience with the Acer Easystore H340?
I had been looking at the Synology DS410j but the Acer is the same price with two drives included.

I have the complete opposite experience as Jigoku San. I really enjoy my Acer H340. I have 4 WD Green drives (between 3x1tb 1x1.5tb) and the box is pretty quiet ~2 feet from me. I think it does run a bit hot though.

Also, the Atom 230 is a 64 bit processor but that doesn't future proof you for Vail when it comes out. I haven't looked at prebuilt WHS in a while but I would suggest the H340 to someone who wanted a WHSv1.

# ? Nov 16, 2010 22:57

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# ? Jun 10, 2024 10:35

yasher: May 21, 2007

Wife's laptop HD just died, and I decided that it's time to put together a backup solution. I'm also looking into building an HTPC at some point in the near future, so I've decided to build a WHS box to serve media and provide backup storage. I've got stupid-head from trying to understand what's going on in the NAS thread, and seeing familiar terminology has convinced me that WHS is probably my best bet.

I've got an older C2D e6400 w/4GB RAM, which is figure will be more than sufficient. I've got two brand new 2TB Samsung drives that I just got on sale, a 500gb drive, and a 320gb drive. The 500 and the 320gb are both 7200, while the 2TBs are both 5400. Is this going to cause any sort of an issue?

The vast majority of my data is stuff I don't consider to be invaluable - so I'm only particularly interested in mirroring certain folders. As I understand it, WHS1 allows this, and even if one of the multiple drives dies, I will lose none of the mirrored data. It's possible to only mirror, say, /Backups, and /Music, and nothing else? My reading of the Drive Extender document makes me think so.

Lastly, is there anything else I should think about before I jump into this? I don't have any data on any of the drives that I'm going to be using, nor do I own a WHS license yet. Worth waiting for Vail?

yasher fucked around with this message at 00:48 on Nov 17, 2010

# ? Nov 16, 2010 23:49

Trillest Parrot: Jul 9, 2006; trill parrots don't die

How does one go about installing Vail over WHSv1? Upgrade install?

Say I wanted to install the OS fresh, what would be the best way to keep the data on the storage drives intact and readable from the new operating system?

# ? Nov 17, 2010 00:41

FCKGW: May 21, 2006

yasher posted:

I've got an older C2D e6400 w/4GB RAM, which is figure will be more than sufficient. I've got two brand new 2TB Samsung drives that I just got on sale, a 500gb drive, and a 320gb drive. The 500 and the 320gb are both 7200, while the 2TBs are both 5400. Is this going to cause any sort of an issue?

Shouldn't be. Usually you want to install WHS on the largest drive but in this case I would use one of the 7200rpm drives as the OS drive.

yasher posted:

The vast majority of my data is stuff I don't consider to be invaluable - so I'm only particularly interested in mirroring certain folders. As I understand it, WHS1 allows this, and even if one of the multiple drives dies, I will lose none of the mirrored data. It's possible to only mirror, say, /Backups, and /Music, and nothing else? My reading of the Drive Extender document makes me think so.

Yes, you can select individual folders to partake in Shared Folder Duplication.
You can read more here.

urbancontra posted:

How does one go about installing Vail over WHSv1? Upgrade install?

Say I wanted to install the OS fresh, what would be the best way to keep the data on the storage drives intact and readable from the new operating system?

Vail is 64-bit only, while WHSv1 is 32-bit. There is no upgrade path, so you'll have to do a server reinstall.

Reinstalling the OS on WHS should be fairly simple. Pop in the CD, choose "Server Reinstallation" and wait. It'll format your 20gb OS partition, then search your storage pool and recreate the file markers or tombstones pointing to where your data is. This may take several hours to do depending on how much data you have.

# ? Nov 17, 2010 00:55

Goon Matchmaker: Oct 23, 2003; I play too much EVE-Online

Jigoku San posted:

I got one. It's pretty nice but its out of date now, no 64-bit so no Vail.

The atom 230 runs hot as gently caress and the temp management is faulty.

It was half the price but I would have gone HP MediaSmart or self-built if I was doing it again.

Edit: Also louder than my desktop right now cuz I disabled the PWM wire on its fan to run full tilt.

It supports 64bit.

code:

root@beastie:~# dmidecode | grep H340 && uname -a
        Product Name: Aspire easyStore H340
Linux beastie 2.6.35-22-generic #33-Ubuntu SMP Sun Sep 19 20:32:27 UTC 2010 x86_64 GNU/Linux

I have no issues with the temperatures either...

# ? Nov 17, 2010 16:44

Jigoku San: Feb 2, 2003

Ah drat, its the first-gen netbook atoms that arn't 64bit.

I have 3 1.5tb LP/Green/Eco type drives and the included 1tb WD Green.

Over the summer it was like 90+ in my room and my 1.5tb WD Green (15EADS) would disconnect. It might be the drive, out of the 3 low power 1.5tb drives I have its always run the hottest, but it hasn't had a problem since I moved it to my SansDigital cage.

# ? Nov 17, 2010 18:07

yasher: May 21, 2007

I must admit, I'm quite pleased with how easy this was to setup. I just had to shove some new drives into an old box and voila, a file server with the option of duplication.

Glad this thread was around to convince me to stay far, far away from OpenIndiana and other poo poo that I just plain don't get.

# ? Nov 18, 2010 01:39

Thermopyle: Jul 1, 2003; ...the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt. �Bertrand Russell

I haven't had much of an occasion to look into how this works:

How exactly are the files on the data drives structured? I'm planning out how to migrate all of my data from WHS to Linux without having enough space to just copy it all straight over. Right now I'm thinking about just mounting the drives as NTFS read only in my Linux box and copy the data off of one to the free space I do have, then reformat that drive in Linux, copy data off the next NTFS drive, then format that one, and repeat till done.

The problem is I'm not exactly sure how the files on the data drives are stored. Is the folder structure preserved or is that info stored in the tombstones or something? My guess is that the folder structure is preserved and if say files from one folder and stored on more than one drive the folder structure is mirrored on each drive?

# ? Nov 19, 2010 21:52

redeyes: Sep 14, 2002; by Fluffdaddy

Its real simple, look for the hidden folder in the root of the drive, open it, should be another folder inside it called Shares, open that. It should have all your file shares in folders. Just copy all that stuff where ever you need it.

# ? Nov 19, 2010 22:06

Thermopyle: Jul 1, 2003; ...the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt. �Bertrand Russell

redeyes posted:

Its real simple, look for the hidden folder in the root of the drive, open it, should be another folder inside it called Shares, open that. It should have all your file shares in folders. Just copy all that stuff where ever you need it.

Ok, what about the fact that I've got multiple data drives? Out of curiosity...is the entire folder structure mirrored on each data drive, or just the folders that happen to have files stored on that specific drive?

# ? Nov 19, 2010 22:09

redeyes: Sep 14, 2002; by Fluffdaddy

Thermopyle posted:

Ok, what about the fact that I've got multiple data drives? Out of curiosity...is the entire folder structure mirrored on each data drive, or just the folders that happen to have files stored on that specific drive?

Yeah the entire folder structure is mirrored on every drive. If something is unduplicated, it will only be on one drive however, dups are on 2 drives.

This is why I love WHS

# ? Nov 19, 2010 22:11

Thermopyle: Jul 1, 2003; ...the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt. �Bertrand Russell

redeyes posted:

Yeah the entire folder structure is mirrored on every drive. If something is unduplicated, it will only be on one drive however, dups are on 2 drives.

This is why I love WHS

Cool, thanks.

I knew this was possible, I just hadn't looked in to the details of how it worked exactly. The possibility is why I, too, love WHSv1.

I'm just looking at moving to a Linux raid solution because as I add more and more drives I get more and more nervous about not having any sort of parity protection.

Also, I like to tinker. :p

# ? Nov 19, 2010 22:14

FCKGW: May 21, 2006

The folder structure is not totally preserved. Where the data is stored is random based on how full the other discs are and how balanced they are.

If you were to pull 2 drives out of your WHS and plug then into external enclosures and browse through the hidden "DE" shares, you may see something like this:

Drive 1

pre:

D:\DE\shares\Music\iTunes\(artist names A-L)

Drive 2

pre:

D:\DE\shares\Music\iTunes\(artist names M-Z)

It probably won't be that clean cut but you get what I'm saying. There is a folder structure, yes, but the tombstones are what tell the OS what drive the shared file lies in. 2 drives can have the same folders but have different contents in them.

Vail throws this all out the windows BTW.

# ? Nov 19, 2010 22:17

redeyes: Sep 14, 2002; by Fluffdaddy

The thing about parity protection is basically that files are moved around via normal NTFS. This means that if a file is somehow damaged windows itself will throw i/o errors and basically let you know about it right away. I have not heard of a single instance of invisible corruption occurring. I have however had plenty of drives take a poo poo and corrupt files. WHS immediately throws errors and kicks the drive offline. Not exactly the same thing as parity protection but it does work preventing corruption.

Anyways, have at it!

# ? Nov 19, 2010 22:20

Suniikaa: Jul 4, 2004; Johnny Walker Wisdom

Whats the proper way to add WD EARS drives to the pool with WHS v1 and PP3? Not using any as a system drive. Just leave the jumper off? Do I need to align them once they are added?

# ? Nov 20, 2010 23:44

EC: Jul 10, 2001; The Legend

Suniikaa posted:

Whats the proper way to add WD EARS drives to the pool with WHS v1 and PP3? Not using any as a system drive. Just leave the jumper off? Do I need to align them once they are added?

Set the jumper per the directions to make it a non-advanced-format drive (or whatever they call it), then install as usual and add it to the pool.

# ? Nov 20, 2010 23:53

Suniikaa: Jul 4, 2004; Johnny Walker Wisdom

EC posted:

Set the jumper per the directions to make it a non-advanced-format drive (or whatever they call it), then install as usual and add it to the pool.

These are drives that I have been using for a while now, do I need to delete the partitions first or anything else?

# ? Nov 21, 2010 00:33

FCKGW: May 21, 2006

Suniikaa posted:

These are drives that I have been using for a while now, do I need to delete the partitions first or anything else?

No, when you add it to the pool it will format the drive.

# ? Nov 21, 2010 01:04

EC: Jul 10, 2001; The Legend

I need to copy a helluva lot of data from one WHS box to another, around 4tb worth. What's the fastest/easiest/safest/sanest way to accomplish this? Something like rsync?

# ? Nov 22, 2010 14:14

gariig: Dec 31, 2004; Beaten into submission by my fiance; Pillbug

EC posted:

I need to copy a helluva lot of data from one WHS box to another, around 4tb worth. What's the fastest/easiest/safest/sanest way to accomplish this? Something like rsync?

Can you add another drive to your WHS box? If so put the drive in but don't add it to the drive pool. You can copy everything over to your drive pool.

# ? Nov 22, 2010 14:49

EC: Jul 10, 2001; The Legend

gariig posted:

Can you add another drive to your WHS box? If so put the drive in but don't add it to the drive pool. You can copy everything over to your drive pool.

Wouldn't I have to then take the drive out, install it in the second WHS, copy the data to the drive pool, then add that drive to the drive pool? That seems like a longer process than doing it over the network, from the first WHS box to the second.

# ? Nov 22, 2010 14:56

Waffle Conspiracy: May 21, 2002; Jane Goodall watches me pee!

personally i like to use Second Copy it supports UNC paths, so just set up jobs for each share and let it run over night.

I use that to Backup my data instead of the WHS backup too, it just runs every week and backs up anything new.

# ? Nov 22, 2010 16:07

EC: Jul 10, 2001; The Legend

Waffle Conspiracy posted:

personally i like to use Second Copy it supports UNC paths, so just set up jobs for each share and let it run over night.

I use that to Backup my data instead of the WHS backup too, it just runs every week and backs up anything new.

So I can specify specific UNC paths and just let it go to town? Awesome, just what I needed.

I wonder how long it's going to take to copy 4tb of data over 100mb. I really need to upgrade to a Gigabit ethernet at some point.

# ? Nov 22, 2010 16:16

redeyes: Sep 14, 2002; by Fluffdaddy

Just to throw this out there, supercopier works great as well, and you get a nice GUI to boot. http://supercopier.sfxteam.org/

# ? Nov 22, 2010 17:01

kri kri: Jul 18, 2007

This is another one

http://freefilesync.sourceforge.net/

# ? Nov 22, 2010 20:00

FISHMANPET: Mar 3, 2007; Sweet 'N Sour
Can't
Melt
Steel Beams

kri kri posted:

This is another one

http://freefilesync.sourceforge.net/

Any file sync tool, especially one that runs on Unix, that doesn't have "uses rsync" or at very least "uses rsync algorithm" can just go right ahead and :frogout:

# ? Nov 22, 2010 20:04

Jeratain: Apr 5, 2004; I have no socially redeeming value.

Is there a proper source to get an ISO with WHS PP3 integrated into the entire install? MSDN does not seem to have the latest version and Connect keeps linking me to trial demos that do not allow for a user to upgrade to the full version.

I have a valid WHS key but I'm looking for a full integrated PP3 install so I can avoid having to go through multiple software updates once I reformat this machine.

# ? Nov 23, 2010 07:31

qutius: Apr 2, 2003; NO PARTIES

Jeratain posted:

Is there a proper source to get an ISO with WHS PP3 integrated into the entire install? MSDN does not seem to have the latest version and Connect keeps linking me to trial demos that do not allow for a user to upgrade to the full version.

I have a valid WHS key but I'm looking for a full integrated PP3 install so I can avoid having to go through multiple software updates once I reformat this machine.

Can you download the ISO from MSDN and slipstream in the updates into a new image? This is a fairly painless process for service packs but I'm not sure if the power packs behave the same way.

# ? Nov 23, 2010 17:37

EC: Jul 10, 2001; The Legend

Drive extender is being cut from Vail?! I'm at a loss as to what this product is turning into.

http://www.mswhs.com/2010/11/drive-extender-cut-from-home-server/

# ? Nov 23, 2010 18:20

SwiftStrikerInc: Feb 5, 2002; [img]platypus[/img] The platypus stands as a testament to my own stupidity

EC posted:

Drive extender is being cut from Vail?! I'm at a loss as to what this product is turning into.

http://www.mswhs.com/2010/11/drive-extender-cut-from-home-server/

Was just about to post this myself. Drive Extender (v1 at least) was one of the root ideals of WHS. I can understand deciding to scrap the V2 of it, but I have no idea what WHS will be without that underlying principle, just a Windows Server 2008 skin?

EDIT: Nevermind, looks like the WHS team answered that. We get RAID instead.

quote:

While this removes the integrated ability for storage pooling of multiple hard drives and automated data duplication, we are continuing to work closely with our OEM partners to implement storage management and protection using industry standard RAID solutions, as well as other software solutions. This will provide customers greater choice as well as a seamless experience that will meet their storage needs. Customers will also have access to the in-built storage solutions Windows Server 2008 R2 provides for data protection, including software RAID support. We are also still delivering core features such as automated Server and PC backup, easy sharing of folders and files, Remote Web Access and simplified management without any expected changes.

http://windowsteamblog.com/windows/b/windowshomeserver/archive/2010/11/23/windows-home-server-code-name-vail-update.aspx

SwiftStrikerInc fucked around with this message at 18:28 on Nov 23, 2010

# ? Nov 23, 2010 18:23

kri kri: Jul 18, 2007

Jeratain posted:

Is there a proper source to get an ISO with WHS PP3 integrated into the entire install? MSDN does not seem to have the latest version and Connect keeps linking me to trial demos that do not allow for a user to upgrade to the full version.

I have a valid WHS key but I'm looking for a full integrated PP3 install so I can avoid having to go through multiple software updates once I reformat this machine.

Use X-files, pretty sure its in the OP.

EC posted:

Drive extender is being cut from Vail?! I'm at a loss as to what this product is turning into.

http://www.mswhs.com/2010/11/drive-extender-cut-from-home-server/

Haha christ

How in the world did they think this was a good idea? I don't want loving drive letters, I want a single unified space. Guess I will stick with v1 or unraid or some poo poo

kri kri fucked around with this message at 18:31 on Nov 23, 2010

# ? Nov 23, 2010 18:28

Wiseblood: Dec 31, 2000

Wait, so now Vail won't even be able to do duplication? What the gently caress are they thinking?

# ? Nov 23, 2010 18:39

EC: Jul 10, 2001; The Legend

The two features that made WHS for me is te storage pool and the ability to easily add additional drives. Without that I guess I'll start looking at unRaid or whatever when my current box gets too hold.

# ? Nov 23, 2010 18:42

JonTheDon: Sep 16, 2005

What the...?

I haven't yet tried any version of WHS, was waiting until the final version of v2 as it was so soon, but the whole 'can take any hard drive out and access via any PC for recovery' thing looked an important part of v1 for me, as well as select individual folders for duplication.

Why couldn't they just use the old version of Drive Extender, or at least made it optional?

# ? Nov 23, 2010 18:48

kri kri: Jul 18, 2007

This is just so loving stupid. The storage pool is the main reason I use WHS. This is especially dumb since Vail beta had DE.

# ? Nov 23, 2010 18:53

tonelok: Sep 29, 2001; Hanukkah came early this year.

Roz Ho was involved in this decision. I just know it.

How could MS be this loving stupid?

Yanking DE pretty much overrules anything that might have been added in Vail, and MS is going to lose everybody who jumped on board the WHS bandwagon prior to this.

I like to joke about MS doing really stupid poo poo as much as anybody else, but this is on the level of the Kin, except that MS is yanking the rug out from underneath an actual existing customer base.

This is so loving stupid. How could they go and make a product that was well received and had basically created a new market and then say "why don't you guys just gently caress off, we didn't give a poo poo about you."

They've also just opened the door for Apple to roll out something in this area.

It really loving pisses me off because I was waiting for Vail to build a nice system just for this.

# ? Nov 23, 2010 19:41

The Gunslinger: Jul 24, 2004; Do not forget the face of your father.; Fun Shoe

I've been waiting for Vail to build a WHS system but there's no way I will now, that's just a bizarre decision that seems totally disconnected with what the user base wants. Oh well, I guess Lime-Tech gets another unRaid license sale. Frustrating, I just finished setting up all of my HTPC related stuff and the central repo was the final step, WHS would have been perfect for it.

# ? Nov 23, 2010 19:56

EoRaptor: Sep 13, 2003; by Fluffdaddy

The SBS Blog provides a huge clue:

quote:

As SBS 2011 Essentials also shares the Drive Extender feature with both Windows Home Server Code Name �Vail� and Windows Storage Server 2008 R2 Essentials, we are working with OEM partners to also provide similar data protection solutions for all members of this product family. Target product availability is still H1 2011, and we expect to deliver a new beta without drive extender for both Small Business Server 2011 Essentials and Windows Home Server Code Name �Vail� early in the New Year.

It's about positioning these products as OEM solutions. Buy a new server to get the new features, let the OEM's differentiate themselves and be able to set higher prices for what is otherwise standard hardware. Vail probably got hit because businesses might have used it instead of Aurora if the feature was still there.

# ? Nov 23, 2010 21:51

kri kri: Jul 18, 2007

tonelok posted:

It really loving pisses me off because I was waiting for Vail to build a nice system just for this.

This, I was waiting to build a new system so I could go v1 -> Vail, but gently caress what a boneheaded move. They should have dropped it for Aurora, and left it in the home client version. What loving idiots/assholes.

# ? Nov 23, 2010 23:47

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# ? Jun 10, 2024 10:35

redeyes: Sep 14, 2002; by Fluffdaddy

hooooly poo poo gently caress YOU MS!

# ? Nov 24, 2010 04:48

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > Windows Home Server Megathread 2.0 - This is why we can't have nice things

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