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dissss posted:That being the case then why bother making them so large? Power/Weapons/and Transportation abilities. It was made to be a siege machine, laying waste to whole planets on its own
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Nov 25, 2010 02:21
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dissss posted:That being the case then why bother making them so large?
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Nov 25, 2010 02:29
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T-1000 posted:To fit more guns on. If I were the Empire I'd build a ship hundreds of kilometres long and bristling with lasers like a porcupine. You figure they could simply build LARGER more effective guns
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Nov 25, 2010 02:57
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CommieGIR posted:You figure they could simply build LARGER more effective guns Perhaps some kind of laser, a laser powerful enough to destroy an entire planet!
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Nov 25, 2010 03:01
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ImpAtom posted:Perhaps some kind of laser, a laser powerful enough to destroy an entire planet! No, that was stupid as well. Waste of time and money, when you could simply create smaller more mobile weapons. However, they overuse turbo lasers, maybe some sort of large anti-ship laser is what I was thinking
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Nov 25, 2010 03:02
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Ferrosol posted:Yeah one thing star wars has is a real problem with scale. The books and games seem all over the place when it comes to how big fleets really are. For example in one book you get the capital of the empire defended by only 4 star destroyers (remember this is an empire of over 3 million planets) in another you get the average garrison of a backwater sector consisting of over 24 star destroyers backed up hundreds of smaller ships and fighters. That's before we get into the whole Karen Traviss inspired 3 million clones thing. Star Wars makes very little sense with respect to scale unless there's only a few hundred to a few thousand human-inhabited worlds, with perhaps a few times that many planets inhabited by other sapient species. Actually setting that as the official scale would require retconning away... well, just about everything, but that's about the only choice if you want resources and military sizes to make any kind of sense.
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Nov 25, 2010 03:04
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I just had a thought. Darth Vader's armor is described in a bunch of places in the EU as being made of super-durable stuff, like phrik or Sith Alchemy or durasteel or unobtainium or something. So at the end of Return of the Jedi... wouldn't his armor still be JUST FINE, lying there in the ashes of that ordinary wood fire? Some funeral.
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Nov 25, 2010 03:26
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Powered Descent posted:I just had a thought. Luke just wanted to get the stink out of it. But yes, chances are the little bonfire Luke lit would not burn any of the armor, or maybe even his many robotic appendages and mask....
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Nov 25, 2010 03:32
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Maybe its customary to give remains to some kind of taxidermist. There's Vader armor sitting on a cyborg skeleton in a museum somewhere.
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Nov 25, 2010 05:12
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Kyp went to Endor to visit Vader's final resting place in one of those books that I've blocked from my mind. Was there just a memorial, or was there some armor left over?
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Nov 25, 2010 05:49
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Rochallor posted:Kyp went to Endor to visit Vader's final resting place in one of those books that I've blocked from my mind. Was there just a memorial, or was there some armor left over? Well, there was his glove...
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Nov 25, 2010 05:52
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Rochallor posted:Kyp went to Endor to visit Vader's final resting place in one of those books that I've blocked from my mind. Was there just a memorial, or was there some armor left over? Iirc, Kyp found his mask which he used to traumatize Wedge's feathery girlfriend. I can't remember why...maybe she had Death Star plans or something? I have no idea why a mind trick and/or lightsaber would not have sufficed.
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Nov 25, 2010 07:16
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CommieGIR posted:However, they overuse turbo lasers, maybe some sort of large anti-ship laser is what I was thinking
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Nov 25, 2010 07:21
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T-1000 posted:That's a good idea. They should invent heavy turbo lasers and cover an even huger ship with them. You don't need to be mobile when all your enemies are dead. Didn't they already explore this route with the Galaxy Gun in "Dark Empire"?
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Nov 25, 2010 08:53
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Where did that diagram come from?
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Nov 25, 2010 10:24
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Thundercleese5 posted:Where did that diagram come from? Many Bothans...
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Nov 25, 2010 10:26
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CommieGIR posted:You figure with all that automation in the future manpower requirements for starships would be minimal I'd just like to interject to remind you that Star Wars is not in the future. Not relevant to the discussion really, but this gets on my nerves.
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Nov 25, 2010 10:37
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CommieGIR posted:This is such a stupid design. REALLY loving stupid, so stupid in fact that I refuse to believe that is real I have good news and bad news: The good news is that Star Wars isn't real. The bad news is that Star Wars isn't real.
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Nov 25, 2010 15:18
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Derek Dominoe posted:Iirc, Kyp found his mask which he used to traumatize Wedge's feathery girlfriend. I can't remember why...maybe she had Death Star plans or something? I have no idea why a mind trick and/or lightsaber would not have sufficed. God I hate Kyp, so much. Realistically I think Luke would be sort of pissed that his crazy rear end dead fathers remains was being used for such lame evil.
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Nov 25, 2010 16:10
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Captain von Trapp posted:Star Wars makes very little sense with respect to scale unless there's only a few hundred to a few thousand human-inhabited worlds, with perhaps a few times that many planets inhabited by other sapient species. Actually setting that as the official scale would require retconning away... well, just about everything, but that's about the only choice if you want resources and military sizes to make any kind of sense. It's more like Star Wars is inconsistent with its scale due to lack of imagination on the parts of the writers (3 million clones, bankrupting Super Star Destroyers), and the relatively small and sometimes inconsistent nature of the films themselves. No one really understands the scale implications with doing a series about a galaxy-spanning, extremely advanced civilization. For example, if Coruscant had a population density similar to that of New York City and was roughly the size of the Earth, there could easily be 3 TRILLION people living on that one planet alone. Manpower isn't even an issue when you've literally got trillions of sentients living under your jurisdiction. Resources aren't an issue when you control up to 400 billion stars, their systems, their planets, their asteroids, etc. But again, no one, not even the film makers, really understood those kinds of implications, so they just kept everything on the conservative end. Instead of thousands of ships, we'd get dozens. Instead of trillions of clones, we're down to millions. It's fun to think about what it'd be like if they went balls-out, but even the films don't portray the galaxy like that.
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Nov 25, 2010 17:44
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Mecha Gojira posted:But again, no one, not even the film makers, really understood those kinds of implications, so they just kept everything on the conservative end. Instead of thousands of ships, we'd get dozens. Instead of trillions of clones, we're down to millions. It's fun to think about what it'd be like if they went balls-out, but even the films don't portray the galaxy like that. Exactly the problem. This rule works with all fiction: never think about it harder than its creator or creators did.
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Nov 25, 2010 19:59
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SeanBeansShako posted:God I hate Kyp, so much. Realistically I think Luke would be sort of pissed that his crazy rear end dead fathers remains was being used for such lame evil.
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Nov 25, 2010 21:14
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Luke read up on his dad and discovered that he was actually a gigantic whiny douchebag. He felt that Kyp was probably the most logical successor to the Anakin Skywalker Whiny Douchebag legacy.
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Nov 25, 2010 22:01
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Captain von Trapp posted:Star Wars makes very little sense with respect to scale unless there's only a few hundred to a few thousand human-inhabited worlds, with perhaps a few times that many planets inhabited by other sapient species. Actually setting that as the official scale would require retconning away... well, just about everything, but that's about the only choice if you want resources and military sizes to make any kind of sense. There's a number in some Zahn book saying that the Imperial fleet used to have 24000 Star Destroyers, and a Sector Group had 24 of them. So, you end up with approximately 1000 sectors. Sectors are supposed to have around 50 inhabited worlds. Which translates into about 50000 inhabited worlds controlled by the Empire, more or less. If you look at the source materials, most of the galaxy is really sparsly inhabited and major population centers are relatively few in number.
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Nov 25, 2010 23:05
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Thundercleese5 posted:Where did that diagram come from? This http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Star_Wars:_Complete_Locations It has some pretty good maps in it. Well worth buying if you're into that sort of thing.      
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Nov 26, 2010 01:22
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Nckdictator posted:Look how many secret fuckin passages he has!
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Nov 26, 2010 01:40
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ImpAtom posted:Luke read up on his dad and discovered that he was actually a gigantic whiny douchebag. He felt that Kyp was probably the most logical successor to the Anakin Skywalker Whiny Douchebag legacy. Even when Kyp grew up and was no longer being Exar Kun's bitch he was just an angsty douchebag.
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Nov 26, 2010 01:50
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I love Palpatines DS2 waiting room.
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Nov 26, 2010 01:52
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SeanBeansShako posted:I love Palpatines DS2 waiting room.
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Nov 26, 2010 01:56
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Kemper Boyd posted:There's a number in some Zahn book saying that the Imperial fleet used to have 24000 Star Destroyers, and a Sector Group had 24 of them. So, you end up with approximately 1000 sectors. Sectors are supposed to have around 50 inhabited worlds. But even then, the same time Zahn was doing the Thrawn Trilogy the West End Games roleplaying game sourcebooks (which Zahn read and incorporated stuff from) said the Empire had 1.5 million inhabited planets under its direct jurisdiction with 69 million 'colonies'. So even then, it was Zahn just willingly coming up with a much lower number rather than higher-end alternatives that he himself was reading. I really like Zahn, he's one of the best in the EU, but he is reaaaallly bad about making things as minimal as possible. I mean, Thrawn's fleet with which he reconquered half the galaxy had what, a dozen Star Destroyers? And less than 200 century-old wrecks of inferior design were considered enough to be a decisive advantage?
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Nov 26, 2010 02:00
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Slantedfloors posted:I like that he has a swanky attractive looking office, but he prefers the dank industrial shithole next door. It certainly would lull anybody into a false sense of security. I can picture Vader sitting in one of those chairs boredly waiting looking at some outdated magazines from the days of the Republic.
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Nov 26, 2010 05:09
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CommieGIR posted:No, that was stupid as well. Waste of time and money, when you could simply create smaller more mobile weapons. Smaller, more mobile, and more powerful? Something like a Star Destroyer, but tinier and possibly able to destroy stars, or obliterate solar systems....it's a fantastic idea, but we just need a name! Organize a group of to-secret scientists and lock them away in a hellhole backwater for ten years now!
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Nov 26, 2010 05:29
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Here, have some more maps    The most weird part of the DS2 Throne room is that there's a airlock for a shuttle to dock with. And acording to the book one was docked there at the time of the Battle of Endor... So instead of walking a few feet to the near by airlock Luke drags Vader down god knows how many levels to reach a hanger. T-1000 posted:That's a good idea. They should invent heavy turbo lasers and cover an even huger ship with them. You don't need to be mobile when all your enemies are dead. This?  Nckdictator fucked around with this message at 07:00 on Nov 26, 2010 |
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Nov 26, 2010 06:55
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Nckdictator posted:The most weird part of the DS2 Throne room is that there's a airlock for a shuttle to dock with. And acording to the book one was docked there at the time of the Battle of Endor... So instead of walking a few feet to the near by airlock Luke drags Vader down god knows how many levels to reach a hanger. I'd think the bottomless shaft beside the stairs is the most weird part... We really need BIG scans of those pics.
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Nov 26, 2010 07:06
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Nckdictator posted:This That is pretty cool. The Jabba's palace design is so interesting in its own way. It seems more inspired than anything in the prequels About the Gary Kurtz/original crew thing from earlier: Return of the Jedi does kind of drop the ball on the story for me about halfway through. Yeah it gets kind of unoriginal and the dialogue is forced, but the big thing is that it just loses what hard edge it may have had that kept it believable enough to enjoy on its own. The whole first act with Jabba was done just right though. Nckdictator posted:
God that's so fuckin retarded. stawk Archer fucked around with this message at 07:11 on Nov 26, 2010 |
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Nov 26, 2010 07:08
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Mister Roboto posted:I'd think the bottomless shaft beside the stairs is the most weird part... I don't have a scanner but I don't think the book itself is hard to find. It's somewhat expensive though but well worth it for A. The art B. The little details and backstory ,for example, it makes a note that "When Senator Palpatine presided over the Theed Power Generator opening ceremony his intrerast in the 'Deep Pit' design was much noted", there was a 'subway' inside the first Death Star (for officers only), Obi Wan's hut was first built by a prospector, little things like that. Nckdictator fucked around with this message at 07:21 on Nov 26, 2010 |
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Nov 26, 2010 07:15
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Chairman Capone posted:I mean, Thrawn's fleet with which he reconquered half the galaxy had what, a dozen Star Destroyers? And less than 200 century-old wrecks of inferior design were considered enough to be a decisive advantage? Zahn has a pretty good line about this in the Hand of Thrawn-duology. Most of the Imperial fleet was really keeping a lid on things and making sure that the various factions in the galaxy don't start poo poo up. So, it's not as much about how many ships you have, but how many you can use in your offensives. I think that some book mentions that Thrawn used many dreadnaughts to free up better ships.
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Nov 26, 2010 08:24
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This essentially. Dreadnoughts are obsoleted by Star Destroyers but it's not like the average planet or regional faction could muster up a fleet to take on a few Star Destroyers or several dreadnoughts. In my opinion, it's illustrated fairly well in the Han Solo trilogy in the second book. It pretty much took every single combat-capable ship, obtaining the enemy war plans, hiring of mercenaries/pirates, and every goddamn trick they could think of to give the Imperial fleet, which was made up of a several dreadnoughts and smaller ships like Carracks, a beating. Even then, they took very heavy casualties and they didn't completely destroy the Imperial fleet, they retreated with most of their dreadnoughts. The Rebel Alliance represents a coalition of a wide range of groups and factions across the galaxy, and you never really see ships capable of taking on Star Destroyers in a fair fight until you reach the level of Mon Cal cruisers.
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Nov 26, 2010 08:34
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I don't know if I am remembering this accurately, and I know there is a lot of love for Zahn's Heir To The Empire trilogy, but there was one moment early on in the books that completely stopped my suspension of disbelief: Lando drinking Hot Chocolate.
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Nov 26, 2010 09:48
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Nckdictator posted:I've always been curious, is there any scale chart that shows the Executor against the Death Star?
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Nov 26, 2010 10:23
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