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You 690 SMC guys have any tips for tweaking the front end to make it a bit more plush over rough pavement/broken ground? Right now it feels like it's got too much preload dialed in and isn't doing much to absorb bumps. I dialed the rebound and compression back to stock and tried working from there, but still can't get it set so that my throttle hand isn't jumping around without putting the majority of my weight way forward (and this is going in a straight line, not around corners). Consensus on SMJ is that the springs are too long from the factory and you can remove the preload spacers but it doesn't help that much; better off ordering shorter springs. Traded a few emails w/ David @ fastbike industries and he immediately went to revalving the compression stack. Just wondering how y'all have yours set before I start shipping my suspension around for work over the winter. Static sag at the forks is 45mm, rider sag is 50mm. Rear numbers are 25mm static 95mm rider. To me that says "increase rear preload, maybe even respring the rear, and decrease front preload" but I don't really know what your sag should look like on a sumo. I weigh ~195 in full gear. VV yeah, I figured I'd have to bump up the rear preload but haven't been looking forward to it. getting to the shock collar on these bikes is a bitch VV Jazzzzz fucked around with this message at 05:22 on Nov 23, 2010 |
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Nov 23, 2010 04:22
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I assume this is for street use? You'd want about 60-80 on the rear (rider) for street use. The fact that the static sag is at 45mm (too much) while the rider sag is only 5mm more points at the bike sagging too much at the rear, choppering out the forks, and changing the weight distribution of the bike, making it hunt at speed and killing your front weight distribution. See if you can crank down on the rear preload, and get the rear sag down to around 60-70mm and see if the front sags farther with you on it after you fix the rear preload. Choppering the bike out with the rear sagging too much will really affect the front sag reading as your weight stops effectively compressing the front. You gotta get the rear sorted before the front because there's so much suspension travel in a sumo that it'll kill the geometry if it's wrong in the back. Once that's done you're probably going to want to end up increasing front preload, to try and get less static sag and you should get a lot more rider sag because your weight won't just all fall to the back when you hop on the bike. Start with that, then we can try and fine tune compression and rebound from there. 
Z3n fucked around with this message at 05:07 on Nov 23, 2010 |
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Nov 23, 2010 05:05
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I'm a similar weight to you and I had similar trouble, I played with the damping and compression for a while with not an awful amount of luck. I increased the rear pre-load, which made it a bit better, but still not quite right. Then I returned to factory damping/compression settings when I serviced my forks and suddenly everything was rainbows and puppies, different bike. So in short, try doing nothing but increased rear pre-load, it's pretty much bang on in my opinion.
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Nov 23, 2010 13:37
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Is setting up a sumo much different from a street bike? There is a write-up in Total Control that describes the basics. I did it before on my gsx-r with 2 other people and it seemed to help a lot. Should I go at it the same way for the DRZ? Hoe are the DRZs stock?
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Nov 23, 2010 16:57
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They're not bad, depends on how much you weigh. The rear end could of course benefit from a nicer shock, but the stock remote reservoir unit isnt bad. ALL DRZ-SM's will have some stiction in the front end. Theres nothing wrong, its just how they are, due to some function of the way they're designed.
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Nov 23, 2010 18:06
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The twin chamber forks also have bleed screws on the top. It's essential that you bleed them every time you ride (you can buy cool little push bleeders for this) if you don't want crazy amounts of stiction. I don't know if the DRZ uses the twin chamber design like the RM125 forks on my DRZ, but the majority of my stiction disappeared when I equalized the pressure on the forks.
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Nov 23, 2010 18:23
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I've read the majority of this thread I think, but there's no mention of anyone riding Aprilia SXVs. Where do they fall on the DRZ to SMC scale?
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Nov 25, 2010 07:28
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Russian Bear posted:I've read the majority of this thread I think, but there's no mention of anyone riding Aprilia SXVs. Where do they fall on the DRZ to SMC scale? I believe the tear-down interval is 30 hours. They're a pure competition bike basically. Great on a go-kart track but I suspect you have to be Jay Leno (whoever that is - an American with a very large garage I gather) to justify putting one on the road.
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Nov 25, 2010 10:39
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Now that Aprilia has the engine sealant issue sorted, the biggest problem with the SVX is oil, or rather, a lack thereof. They hold very little oil, and burn quite a bit. I did hear some second-hand stories from a mechanic that a lot don't make their first service, purely because people aren't expecting them to run out of oil in <1000km.
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Nov 25, 2010 12:47
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I have a friend who was a huge fan of them. In order to keep it alive, figure 300-500 mile oil changes. He went through 3 engine rebuilds while they were sorting out the sealant issues, but ended up with close to 6k on his in the end. He loved it but it really is a racebike for the street. Maintenance intervals are crazy.
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Nov 25, 2010 15:42
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I rode with a guy who had an SXV who seemed to like it fine. He changed the oil every 800 miles and claimed to have no problems over a course of about 5,000 miles. Of course, another guy in the group had an SXV which grenaded far away from home and he has since switched to KTM.
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Nov 25, 2010 17:13
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The local guy who has one (with the Akro can that makes beautiful noises) hasn't complained much about the maintenance on his. I'll ask him about it next time I see him. He has already split the cases on it twice in the two months he's had it (bought used) - once to replace clutch fibers, again after he went ditch surfing and broke the trans (bent shift fork, broke some teeth on 2nd gear)
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Nov 25, 2010 18:11
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Jazzzzz posted:The local guy who has one (with the Akro can that makes beautiful noises) hasn't complained much about the maintenance on his. I'll ask him about it next time I see him. He has already split the cases on it twice in the two months he's had it (bought used) - once to replace clutch fibers, again after he went ditch surfing and broke the trans (bent shift fork, broke some teeth on 2nd gear) Surely having to split the cases to replace friction plates pretty much says it all!
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Nov 25, 2010 21:18
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You know you're on a hand grenade when you're buying a KTM because its way more reliable.
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Nov 25, 2010 22:02
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I know this is discussed ad nauseum in every supermoto thread so why not bring the redundancy here, too? FOOT OUT OR KNEE DOWN? I've only had a motard for a couple months now but I can say that I've gone from a classic roadrace style on my CBR to basically just sitting upright on my motard. Not counterleaning, but not sticking my rear end out, either. I just don't have the leg height to reach the outside peg comfortably while stick my rear end way out like I do on sportbikes, and getting my body way off doesn't feel as good since the bike is so flighty in the front-end to begin with. I found a picture which sums up how I ride, although it's not me, just a poster on SMJ.  I will stick a knee out a bit, just enough that it'll touch before a peg will (haven't needed that amount of lean yet on the street), but other than that I'm pretty neutral on the bike. I keep my feet on the pegs at all times. I know that needknees hangs off a bit more from his trackday pics but what about the rest of you? I guess it's pretty irrelevant until I get to a trackday in the spring to see for sure but this method is treating me fine so far. Also I haven't done much of any dirt riding and I'm slow as poo poo offroad so discount that.
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Nov 26, 2010 03:36
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It's discussed a lot in here. Usually asked by me. I think the great thing about the sumo is it's just sort of freestyle. You can hang your rear end off, drop a knee, put a foot out, lean with it, lean against it, etc. For the tight short turns I put a foot out and lean against. For the longer ones I drop a knee and elbow. For the long sweepers I might do all that and hang a butt cheek off. But that's probably too much. Just sport bike habits, I guess.
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Nov 26, 2010 05:09
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The best way I can summarize it is: This is supermoto; gently caress the rules. It doesn't matter. What feels best to you? If you watch world premier supermoto racing, they mostly go leg out. Though theres the oddball ex road racer grabbing podium finishes that only goes knee down. In racing or on a SM track, it comes down to space, and the history SM shares with dirt bikes. A very general rule of thumb is: If it's a tight, low speed corner, leg out has more advantages. If its a long sweeping fast corner, knee out or body weight off to the inside is more common. My best recommendation would be to play with leg out, give it a try. Keep your body upright, your weight forward, and throw the bike into those corners. Bury the lean angle. It feels awesome, it feels really right, and the bike loves it. I suspect, if you make an attempt to get used to leg out SM style, you'll stick with it. It really does flow naturally in the tight stuff.
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Nov 26, 2010 05:21
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I mean. I know these are pretty dumb. But heh. I couldn't find a bigger version.  Click here for the full 604x483 image.
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Nov 26, 2010 10:03
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Phat_Albert posted:You know you're on a hand grenade when you're buying a KTM because its way more reliable. Österreich über alles!
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Nov 26, 2010 18:50
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Christoff posted:I mean. I know these are pretty dumb. But heh. I couldn't find a bigger version. If there was ever a reason to buy a supermoto it's this picture right here.
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Nov 26, 2010 19:40
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While were on the topic of foot out. That's obviously not a tight turn and that guy has it out at an insane level and angle. Suffice go say I've never seen a foot out like that. What I meant is I'm going to try it today.
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Nov 26, 2010 20:28
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FuzzyWuzzyBear posted:I know this is discussed ad nauseum in every supermoto thread so why not bring the redundancy here, too? FOOT OUT OR KNEE DOWN? I've only had a motard for a couple months now but I can say that I've gone from a classic roadrace style on my CBR to basically just sitting upright on my motard. Not counterleaning, but not sticking my rear end out, either. I just don't have the leg height to reach the outside peg comfortably while stick my rear end way out like I do on sportbikes, and getting my body way off doesn't feel as good since the bike is so flighty in the front-end to begin with. For what it's worth I've not been on a track tight enough for me to feel like I needed to stick a foot out. There was a single corner down at Sandia raceway in ABQ where I considered it but just went with what I was comfortable with. On gravel and dirt (on both the 625 and dirtbikes) I DO get that foot out in front of me but never have on pavement. Maybe it's a comfort thing on dirt but in thinking about it I bet it helps weight the front tire and gives you more grip in low traction situations. Or something  .I hear you on the outside foot thing too. I've got fairly long legs and I still sometimes have my foot start to slip off the peg. There's just too drat much legroom on these bikes! As for the front feeling flighty, have you checked your suspension? After I got my sag set right and played with the compression/rebound settings a bit the bike is MUCH more planted, especially at speed. Before I had a bit too much compression damping in the fork, which made it fidget like CRAZY on sharp bumps. I backed it down a click at a time and after two clicks it pretty much went away. Another thing I have noticed is at heavy lean angles the bike is picky about if you're on the gas or not. It's not happy at all if you let off. The front starts skipping around and generally loses feel. Once you start rolling back on the skipping goes away and you get grip back to the front. Crazy poo poo. You've got a 625SMC as well, right? If you've not done so yet the I'd really recommend futzing about with your suspension. I'll have to look at my notes but if I'm remembering correctly off the top of my head I went for ~70mm front and rear for my race sag. I think that's a good starting point for sumos.
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Nov 26, 2010 20:57
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Maybe it's just because I'm a big bastard, but when I stick a leg out and forward it seems to me like the bike becomes way more planted in turns. It's the same kind of feeling I felt when I first crouched down on a bike instead of sitting upright. I guess sticking a knee out is similar, but with a leg I can put more weight over the front and quicker too. I don't drag it on the ground or anything, but it still feels like I'm on three wheels for a second.
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Nov 26, 2010 23:09
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needknees posted:You've got a 625SMC as well, right? If you've not done so yet the I'd really recommend futzing about with your suspension. I'll have to look at my notes but if I'm remembering correctly off the top of my head I went for ~70mm front and rear for my race sag. I think that's a good starting point for sumos. I do indeed have a 625 SMC. It seems to have correct sag for my weight (in the rear) but I haven't messed with the rebound and compression settings at all other than to return them to stock settings. The previous owner had upped the compression damping a lot without adjusting anything else so it was pretty stiff when I first got it. The light front end is probably totally normal for the bike and I'm just used to my super stable CBR F2 which weighed a good 100 lbs more and had clip-ons. I remember when I rode a friend's SV I was also not used to the flighty nature of the handlebars. I certainly haven't experienced any front-end chatter or losses of traction, but I'm not pushing my luck until it warms up in the spring.
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Nov 27, 2010 00:01
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If I do get these http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com/2/6/3/2417/ITEM/Alpinestars-Tech-3-Boots.aspx?WT.ac=SLIsearch I'm assuming for a sumo I'll want the all terrain sole? I can't tell. Which ones have the replaceable sole? These or the others? Nostalgia4Dogges fucked around with this message at 02:15 on Nov 27, 2010 |
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Nov 27, 2010 01:58
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Only the Tech 7 Supermotos and the SIDI Crossfire SDCGDNTUSN's have replaceable soles. If I was buying Tech 3's for the street I would buy the MX style over the ATV style. The ATV style has some pretty aggressive tread. That said, I dont own either, and these no chance in a million years id buy Tech 3 over the Tech 7 Supermoto for the extra hundred or so. (or thousand or so of the SIDI's) FAKE EDIT: Apparently you can send them to the A* Factory and pay for resoling or something, but gently caress that noise.
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Nov 27, 2010 05:21
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Don't get the ATV sole, it makes it tough to move your feet around on the pegs. Also dirt boots for street... 
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Nov 27, 2010 07:11
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Garne (or whatever) makes a supermoto boot with replaceable soles as well. I'm p sure vibram makes a supermoto sole kit for resoling boots that has replaceable sliders.
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Nov 27, 2010 07:25
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Well I wanted a boot for daily-ish riding. That I could still wear on the twisties and such. Tech 3 seemed to fit the bill "somewhat" Ugh, shopping for boots sucks. There's too any options. I'm just going to wear flip flops.
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Nov 27, 2010 18:23
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Christoff posted:I'm just going to wear flip flops. Well then may i suggest 
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Nov 28, 2010 00:14
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Haha. I've seen one similar but it looked a bit different. Had a hard plastic piece for the shifter. I got hit today but the bike is ok. The sumo mentality is catching up with me. I'd say it's her fault for not paying attention but sort-of mine as well. Was splitting in a two lane left turn. Light was red. I went to go in front of the car in the left lane to make a u-turn. Apparently in that 1 second that I turned my head the light turned green. She started rolling forward just as I turned. Her bumper caught my side stand and pushed me over. I almost lost the bike and had the feeling of "oh gently caress no no no please don't drop the bike" that we've all experienced. She backed up and I was able to recover. I was sort of in shock. She was in some nice Mercedes SUV. Put a nice ding in her bumper. We sort of waved it off and I kind of nodded. I don't think she wrote down my license plate number or anything. I mean. I sat there in front of her waiting for the signal to change again. If she did get my plate number and saw the damage not sure if she'd try to blame it on me or what. But, whatever. Bike is ok and I didn't drop it. Alas. Let me make this simple. WHAT boot do you guys use for the street, track, whatever. And how do you like it. OR what boot do you plan on buying for the street/track.
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Nov 28, 2010 02:28
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That was 100% your fault.
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Nov 28, 2010 02:33
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Daytona security evos for street, and big track. Going to eventually pick up a pair of dedicated offroad boots, haven't decided what yet. Sumo boots I'm still undecided.
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Nov 28, 2010 02:34
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2ndclasscitizen posted:That was 100% your fault. Yeah, probably. But the light was red and I was just sort of inching over. Was very low speed. I mean I wasn't splitting at 20 mph then zipped over into her lane and cut her off.
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Nov 28, 2010 02:36
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On the whole road/race vs. dirt boots for 'tarding discussion, aren't there a few road/race boots with replaceable soles? Sidi does some I think? Might be an option.
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Nov 28, 2010 03:22
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I'm assuming they're at least $400-500
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Nov 28, 2010 03:33
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I just bought a pair of Gaerne SG-10s for light offroading because I am paranoid as poo poo about rolling/breaking my ankles after spraining them a few times. There is precious little chance I would ever wear these things for general street riding - heavy as hell and WAY stiff. The Gaerne Supermoto boot is based on SG-10s, it just has that Vibram sole henne mentioned. Seems like boot choice boils down to what you're used to and what you're comfortable with. I see a mix of Tech 3s/7s on dirt guys and Sidi road race boots on former street guys a lot. Haven't found anything that hits the perfect mix of durable replaceable sole for jumps/sticking a foot out, protective but still light + flexible enough to wear every day commuting. I'm leaning towards moderate road race boots with toe/heel sliders for putting a foot out. If you're really worried about tearing up the sole you could probably screw a piece of heavy-gauge plastic to it along the edge of your foot, if you made sure you didn't screw all the way through.
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Nov 28, 2010 06:59
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My Tech7s have replaceable soles, but it's only the instep portion (that gets torn up by dirt pegs) that's replaceable without sending it back to A* for a full resole. But seriously man. Not trying to be a prick at all, but you don't seem to believe any of the people telling you dirt boots are crazy stiff... just go to a local place and try any dirt boot on. Doesn't matter what brand, they're all going to be fairly similar. It's NOT something you really want to be wearing on the road, unless you're ONLY going for a ride and will be doing little to no walking in them. I'm not exaggerating a bit when I say they're like wearing ski boots. It's going to be tough to find a single boot that's going to accomplish everything you want. That's part of the fun of motorcycling though... Gear addiction!!!  Hell what size of boot do you wear? I'm selling a pair of Sidi Vertigos pretty cheap in the CA marketplace thread. With those you'll have a good race boot that's easy enough and comfortable enough to wear every day and not drop a bunch of money into them, so you can get a nice sumo/dirt boot for hooning. Edit: Street - A* Scout WP Dirt - A* Tech7 Race - A* Supertech R needknees fucked around with this message at 16:34 on Nov 28, 2010 |
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Nov 28, 2010 16:30
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ReelBigLizard, do you recall approx. how far you adjusted the collar on the shock to get your preload set properly?
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Nov 28, 2010 21:42
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Slim Pickens posted:Well then may i suggest
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Nov 28, 2010 23:22
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