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I run a game of Wild Talents, and my solution was to ditch stats and just use a static skill list appropriate to the setting. It makes it easy to ask for skill checks, and miracle building is so flexible that characters still feel unique even though they all use the same skill list. For experience, I just hand it out as a story award. As you say, the built-in system doesn't work very well.
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Nov 27, 2010 04:36
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which goes to show the more you know quid pro quo death to ability scores
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Nov 27, 2010 04:52
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I've never actually played an ORE game, but I imagine having both stats and skills would be useful solely for the dynamic of having either a generally alright character with good stats and poor skills, or a specialist with alright stats but a few really good skills.
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Nov 27, 2010 05:01
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I think it would be overkill in this case: the coolness of the Kerberos Club free-form skill system partially depends on there being stats. You make up your skills. Most skills are Basic. Basic skills are linked to one stat, and can be used in a fairly limited set of circumstances. "Pistols" is a good example. Used with Coordination. Rolled to attack with pistols. A skill can be broad, and be used in a fairly broad set of circumstances. "Guns," say, used with Coordination to attack with any gun. Or your group may think it's stupid to have separate Basic skills for Pistols and Rifles and Artillery (that is, they aren't very interested in armed combat, the campaign isn't going to focus on it), in which case "Guns" would be Basic and "Modern Warfare" would be Broad. Or, a skill can be Flexible, in which case it can be used with any stat, depending on the situation. Coordination + Pistols to shoot, Mind + Pistols to know about pistol history or do pistol forensics, Sense + Pistols to recognize where someone's shooting from. Or, a skill can be Broad _and_ Flexible. And there's even a third option, Influential, which means the skill can represent fame or social connections gained using the skill, or in circles related to the skill. I like this system! Removing Stats would effectively mean that all skills were Flexible! There would be (slightly) less to distinguish characters! (e: ^^^^^^ yes indeed) Also, without Sense, how do you know the order to declare your actions in combat? 
Doc Hawkins fucked around with this message at 05:11 on Nov 27, 2010 |
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Nov 27, 2010 05:09
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Doc Hawkins posted:I think it would be overkill in this case: the coolness of the Kerberos Club free-form skill system partially depends on there being stats. I know I'm a sad loving gimmick, but isn't the only part of the ORE character definition that requires stats the Flexible descriptor, and that could be a simple "hey man give me a reason and I'll let you roll it" rather than punishing people for trying to spread points into both shooting a gun and being able to disassemble it?
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Nov 27, 2010 05:14
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The Kerberos Club skill system sounds pretty interesting. I haven't read that particular setting, apparently I need to check it out.Capntastic posted:I've never actually played an ORE game, but I imagine having both stats and skills would be useful solely for the dynamic of having either a generally alright character with good stats and poor skills, or a specialist with alright stats but a few really good skills. You don't need both stats and skills to have both generalists and specialists. You can choose to buy up a few skills to a high level or buy up many skills to a moderate level. Doc Hawkins posted:Also, without Sense, how do you know the order to declare your actions in combat? Replaced it with a skill.
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Nov 27, 2010 05:58
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Sir Kodiak posted:The Kerberos Club skill system sounds pretty interesting. I haven't read that particular setting, apparently I need to check it out. quote:You don't need both stats and skills to have both generalists and specialists. You can choose to buy up a few skills to a high level or buy up many skills to a moderate level. Of course, but that does make it harder on the players. They have to enumerate all the various things they want to be good at, instead of just saying "You know, like a really dexterous guy?" Unless they just focus on a few Broad skills, of course...without stats, "Strong" would be a fine skill. Okay, you're right, I will try it statless. All I really want is for some kind of synergy to be possible. To steal even more from Shadow of Yesterday, "you can roll a skill to give another skill roll (yours or someone else's) WIDTH in bonus dice. Exactly one check can help exactly one check." quote:Replaced it with a skill. See, I would have said everyone declares at the same time and can keep changing their mind until they're all settled...but that may be something that doesn't work in a more granular system like ORE.
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Nov 27, 2010 06:48
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Doc Hawkins posted:Thank you again, Evil Mastermind, for selling me on Kerberos Club: the skills and convictions rules are a huge boon to the ORE as a whole, and the rest of it loving rules. You can thank me by running a forum game. 
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Nov 27, 2010 06:53
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Every so often I delve into terrible places, and sometimes I find wonderful things, like these rumors. -The state of Alaska's a vortex of positive mystical energy when tapped in to correctly. Sara Palin hasn't quite gotten the hang of it, but she's working on it. -There are five real people in New Jersey. The rest are tulpas spawned by a nations' worth of stereotypes. -There are more dipsomancer's per capita in Wiscossnin than anywhere else on the planet. No one's yet been able to explain why. -Never set foot in Missoula, Montana. There is a reason the city's original name in English was Hellgate. -Certain foods can repress magical talent. They are rare, and have to be cooked a certain way, so it generally doesn't come up, but... well, let's just say this: when was the last time you saw a magician who was fond of the McRib? -Bank of America prides itself on its prevalence of ATMs across the country. Each of these blood-red ATMs literally consumes the money it is fed and digests it, spitting it out into charges for the Plutomantic cabal that runs the Bank. -Walt Disney was a mage. Disneyland was an attempt to gather power from joy and excitement en masse; it may still be possible to access that power. Disneyworld, however, was just built for the money. -Hunter S, Thompson was a mage. He didn't realize it, though - poor bastard forgot after a fairly epic binge of LSD and mescaline. -The reason there were so many Starbucks? They were trying to build one atop every ley line in the world, and then channel the energies outward to their non-ley locations. -There are actually 14 secret herbs and spices in the Colonel's recipe. -The real reason the auto industry in Detroit is tanking? Gremlins. -The Luchador is a hair away from becoming a proper archetype. Rumor has it that the man who finds the lost mask of El Santo will be the one to push it over the edge. -There are two actors in Hollywood who do not age right now; Dick Clark and Keanu Reeves. The latter is leeching off the immortality of the former somehow, as he has to other immortals for centuries. -Those superstitious children's games most kids play? Ones like, "Step on a crack, break you're mother's back"? Those are actually the implementation of an ancient mystic immune system for society; When children play the games and chant their limericks, they are serving their roles as our cultural white blood cells. -The shortwave station commonly called "The Buzzer" is an alert station held by a small cabal in the Ural mountains. The letter-and-number combinations broadcast every once in a blue moon direct the cabal members to specific rituals. -The necronomicon is real alright, just none of the occult mainstream has the real copy, though that doesn't mean you can't pick it up at your local Barns & Noble. see it was published under a different title, whats weird is no one can quite remember the name.
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Nov 27, 2010 17:05
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Capntastic posted:I've never actually played an ORE game, but I imagine having both stats and skills would be useful solely for the dynamic of having either a generally alright character with good stats and poor skills, or a specialist with alright stats but a few really good skills. Stats are useful for tracking damage too - how would allocate a gunshot in a skills only game?
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Nov 28, 2010 02:58
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You use hit locations as normal and you determine which skill checks correspond to Body / Coordination type things on a case-by-case basis. It's usually pretty obvious, and it's no more difficult than having to determine which stat to use with a skill check if you use stats+skills.
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Nov 28, 2010 03:18
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Sir Kodiak posted:You use hit locations as normal and you determine which skill checks correspond to Body / Coordination type things on a case-by-case basis. It's usually pretty obvious, and it's no more difficult than having to determine which stat to use with a skill check if you use stats+skills. It depends on how broadly you define skills. It seems more abstract than what I would like. But speaking of abstraction in ORE, A Dirty World is a great game. Handles film noir quite well. http://www.gregstolze.com/adirtyworld/
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Nov 28, 2010 03:49
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We have opposed aims: I would aim for something more abstract, where penalties are applied to all rolls. Why shouldn't getting shot up affect your rolls to be charming and invent things? Or I'd steal a page from MaOCT, and make the stats be the hit locations. e: also that noir thing looks pimp, thanks tons Doc Hawkins fucked around with this message at 04:20 on Nov 28, 2010 |
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Nov 28, 2010 04:11
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Doc Hawkins posted:Or I'd steal a page from MaOCT, and make the stats be the hit locations. What stat corresponds to getting punched in the dick?
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Nov 28, 2010 04:16
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Probably Guts. MaOCT damage is kept from being totally abstract by the fact that the stats are also parts of the human body, with human characters. Of course, the Monsters have a similar thing, where their various creepy-cool body parts ("Big Claws! Hypnotic Eyes! Dripping Venom!") are also their powers and hit locations. Oh, and the stats are also your hit boxes, so taking shock damage in your Brains temporarily reduces how many dice you roll for Brains-related skills. Kill damage reduces them permanently, though, soooo monsters are hilariously dangerous. Hey, check it out, maoct.jpg:  Click here for the full 1920x1200 image.
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Nov 28, 2010 04:29
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So what mechanics represent the childish things?
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Nov 28, 2010 04:30
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Uhh, all the others? I think the title refers to the difficulties of dealing with peer pressure, mean grownups, parental expectations...you know, kid stuff. Like, for example, you can attack and be attacked by rolling Face+Putdowns, because when you're a kid, getting insulted and made fun of can really mess you up. You can even take killing damage from it if it's mean enough.
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Nov 28, 2010 04:37
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Doc Hawkins posted:Uhh, all the others? I think the title refers to the difficulties of dealing with peer pressure, mean grownups, parental expectations...you know, kid stuff. Is the killing literal or just metaphorical? As in the destruction of social life and psyche or do you literally die?
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Nov 28, 2010 05:15
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Losing all your stat dice posted:If you run out of dice from a stat due to Scarring damage [DH: and Scarring damage only] —even emotional Scarring damage from particularly ugly words—you lose consciousness or suffer something equivalent. Maybe it means you’re out cold, or maybe it means you’re huddled up in a little ball, staring into space, waiting for the numbness to come. Either way, you can’t take any actions and you will die unless you get some help soon. Of course, that's for PCs. Random MIBs and other bad guys just get squished. "Scarring" damage is serious business. Recovering from Damage posted:Scarring damage does not recover at all until you get professional attention. If you’re well cared for, you heal one die a week. However, one of the dice lost to Scarring does not recover at all—it’s just gone. You can get it back only by character advancement (page 35). And finally, while I've got the pdf out... When Monsters fight people posted:Monsters can mess people up really bad. Unless a kid specifically tells his monster to “Go easy!” monster attacks ignore armor and defenses and inflict Scarring damage of generally pretty graphic and horrible sorts. Players have to specifically say they want their monsters to do Shock rather than Scar damage, and if the kid’s life is physically threatened, then a monster won’t listen. e: no wait, one more, on what exactly constitutes Scarring social damage. Words posted:Emotional attacks always inflict Shock damage unless you have some kind of serious edge that makes it a Scarring attack. A terribly dirty secret you can slam on the victim does Scar damage. So can a particularly vicious putdown from someone with whom you have relationship dice. So just being mean is always shock, but they need to really have something on you to mess you up permanently with it. Doc Hawkins fucked around with this message at 06:09 on Nov 28, 2010 |
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Nov 28, 2010 06:06
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MaOCT does not gently caress around it seems. I may need to check it out
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Nov 28, 2010 06:11
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Can someone give me a quick rundown on how to do statless Wild Talents? Do you increase the 1-5 cap to 1-10? Guessing you add a initiative or reflex skill?
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Dec 5, 2010 12:30
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For my game, I use a set skill list, but that's not necessary. The 1-5 cap is raised to 1-10, as you suggest. For initiative, I just make it a skill, but double the cost of a normal skill. I don't think it takes anything more than that.
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Dec 5, 2010 18:50
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Ok, nice. Just one more question. How are hyper skills handled with the increased cap? Do you still get the can dodge bullets bonus at Dodge 6 or only when you buy it as a power?
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Dec 5, 2010 19:24
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I eliminated all the stat-based bonuses and let people buy them as powers if they wanted. For example, if you want your Dodge skill to be able to dodge bullet, buy the Speeding Bullet extra for it.
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Dec 5, 2010 20:52
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I've been wanting to introduce my group to Unknown Armies and one of the players wants me to make a Legend of Zelda setting. I think I can swing it but I was wondering if a different ORE system would be a better idea. I want to use this game as a way of getting them used to the Unknown Armies system.
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Dec 5, 2010 22:39
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Well, UA isn't an ORE game, it has it's own ruleset. It seems like you could use it for high fantasy with some tweaking. Especially since you just make up most of your skills. I'm sure I've seen some rules conversions for UA fantasy before. The main issue is the different damage levels between melee and guns.
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Dec 5, 2010 23:14
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UA has a very different tone from the Zelda setting. Zelda is very much a game about having adventures, fighting things and taking their magical artefacts; in UA, combat is dangerous, unpredictable, and never turns out well for anybody involved. In fact, most any time you're being adventurey and physical in UA, the odds are stacked against you -- the UA system is designed to simulate a world which has it in for your character, whereas the Zelda setting loves and supports its heroes. I haven't actually run ORE myself, but from what I've heard it sounds much more suitable for something Zeldary than UA. You might also try Savage Worlds; that might adapt quite well.
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Dec 5, 2010 23:28
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Whybird posted:UA has a very different tone from the Zelda setting. Zelda is very much a game about having adventures, fighting things and taking their magical artefacts; in UA, combat is dangerous, unpredictable, and never turns out well for anybody involved. In fact, most any time you're being adventurey and physical in UA, the odds are stacked against you -- the UA system is designed to simulate a world which has it in for your character, whereas the Zelda setting loves and supports its heroes. That is about what I thought after sitting down and trying to see how it would work. I don't know anything about Savage Worlds so I'll have to research it. I could always re-skin 4e D&D but I was hoping to open the group up to a bigger variety of games like when I got them to play Mouse Guard.
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Dec 5, 2010 23:39
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Much as I love UA, I agree that the system is designed for roleplay-heavy gritty campaigns, as opposed to glorious tales of earth's mightiest heroes. The combat mechanics are also not as fleshed out as many other systems, mainly because it's not intended to be the focus. That said, I'd love to play a Black Company style fantasy with the UA mechanics ("You got hit with an error? Roll for sepsis!"); the tone appeals to me.
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Dec 6, 2010 00:10
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Everybody already said it, but I'll say again that UA would be terrible for Zelda. UA is about sacrificing everything for power. If you want to get better at what you do, you sacrifice health, your social life, money, stability, happiness, and sanity. The people with power at the bums, the homeless, and the mentally ill. And they're not putting up a front to keep people from realizing their true abilities and powers; they actually are the gibbering, psychotic, emotionally disturbed people you might think they are. The reason they have the powers in the first place is because they're willing or driven enough to push themselves to such utter ruin, despair, and degradation Basically, it's a roleplaying game to find out exactly how far you are willing to go and what you are willing to do to get what you want Cyrai fucked around with this message at 05:17 on Dec 6, 2010 |
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Dec 6, 2010 05:06
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Robotic Folksinger posted:statless Wild Talents This just made me realise I could run statless REIGN, thereby making REIGN approximately 83.7% better. Thanks.
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Dec 6, 2010 13:20
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Another question, without stats what do you use for when the players want to do something they have no skill in? Also statless REIGN sounds pretty good.
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Dec 6, 2010 22:17
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Robotic Folksinger posted:Another question, without stats what do you use for when the players want to do something they have no skill in? I use a preset skill list, which ensures adequate coverage. So for any given situation, we just pick the skill that's most appropriate.
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Dec 6, 2010 22:28
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So, I'm sorta bugged about the fact that the width of roll in combat determines both damage and the speed of the attack. Have anyone come up with any sort of usable alternate rule for this?
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Dec 11, 2010 19:56
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What's better than a new Reign kickstarter? A sci-fi Reign kickstarter! Greg Stolze posted:"Out of the Violent Planet" presents a near-future Earth where we've made first contact with aliens, only to find that we're something different, unexpected... and in many ways lesser. They're psychic and, unlike every other sentient species they've encountered (there are hundreds) we are not. http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/gregstolze/out-of-the-violent-planet
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Dec 16, 2010 01:16
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Evil Mastermind posted:What's better than a new Reign kickstarter? This sounds pretty interesting. I might would have preferred a novel based on it than a game.
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Dec 16, 2010 01:37
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Chance II posted:This sounds pretty interesting. I might would have preferred a novel based on it than a game. Then perhaps you should read A Call to Arms (and it's sequels) by Alan Dean Foster. It's a series with a very similar premise and I'm pretty sure it was part of Stolze's inspiration for the game.
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Dec 16, 2010 04:24
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Evil Mastermind posted:What's better than a new Reign kickstarter? Well, I'm on board. Even ignoring the interesting-sounding premise, I'm curious to see some sci-fi rules for Reign.
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Dec 16, 2010 18:03
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I'm going to be running a REIGN game- the first ORE game I've ever participated in, and the first proper game I've ever personally run. Being me, I had to go out of my way to make it as complicated as possible- custom setting, a few rules modifications, etc. I'm fairly confident I can pull it off, provided I can figure out a way to balance the combat to be exciting and fun without having to run every battle against myself before I push it on to the players. It's not that combat is going to be driving the plot, of course. Any tips? (Group is 5 dudes at 100 points each, predominantly non-combative. Edit: One of them is fully combat guy, though.)
Capntastic fucked around with this message at 10:44 on Dec 21, 2010 |
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Dec 21, 2010 10:40
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Capntastic posted:I'm going to be running a REIGN game- the first ORE game I've ever participated in, and the first proper game I've ever personally run. Being me, I had to go out of my way to make it as complicated as possible- custom setting, a few rules modifications, etc. I'm fairly confident I can pull it off, provided I can figure out a way to balance the combat to be exciting and fun without having to run every battle against myself before I push it on to the players. It's not that combat is going to be driving the plot, of course. Any tips? (Group is 5 dudes at 100 points each, predominantly non-combative. Edit: One of them is fully combat guy, though.) I'd start by using a "test group" of one NPC and two unworthies per PC. One thing you need to bear in mind when running combats is that teamwork is very important; two PCs ganging up on one bad guy can become a curb stomp if they can hit him and break his sets. Try to keep your guy on the combat-oriented character, and use the mooks to keep everyone else occupied. That should give you a good idea of where to adjust things.
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Dec 21, 2010 15:41
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