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Over ten years directing broadcast TV, mostly reality, now running a private documentary production unit for a large non-profit. Never worked in drama, never wanted to. Did work with a 1st AD for Night at the Museum who was "slumming" it in TV between film gigs. Classic lovely film attitude. The good guys don't have it, but it is rife in the industry. I've developed a keen distrust of indy filmmakers "slumming" it.
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Dec 1, 2010 16:58
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exp0n fucked around with this message at 00:57 on Nov 30, 2014 |
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Dec 1, 2010 20:40
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G&E these days, also camera oping on documentary recently and 1st/2nd AC whenever I can. I also do DP stuff on the side but not so much anymore because I am so god drat broke.
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Dec 2, 2010 06:26
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Mozzie posted:Yes, because stethoscopes also aren't ever used to check blood flow or anything, but it doesn't matter because your opinion is wrong and you are stupid for having it. I'm sure you're a pleasure to work with.  quote:I am sure Stanley Kubrick was just being a jackass when he said that to understand cinema you must have a strong understanding of photography. Having experience on the behaviour of light, exposure, image, language of composition or perspective must be a real useless toolset to have when So when you read a post by a guy who just wants to "try filmmaking," you hold them to the standards of a legendary filmmaker? You would advise that they first become a perfect photographer? quote:you can just throw a 50mm lens on your 5D and start making cinema right on your macbook! People can and are? quote:edit: look mom, this looks so great on this 3 inch screen! And it looks wonderful on youtube!! What do you think will be the consumption medium for 99% of what beginning filmmakers shoot? quote:PS, I keep a light meter in my backpack sometimes if I find a cool location and I want to get a general idea of ambient light, but why should i care about lighting when I can crank the ISO up to a billion and then process the h264 footage in premier pro CS5 on my macbook with a desnoise filter and upload it to vimeo for 6 people to see. Wow...someone's bitter and insecure.
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Dec 2, 2010 22:35
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Jalumibnkrayal posted:faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaart i'm becoming increasingly curious as to what exactly it is you do for a living
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Dec 3, 2010 00:38
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Dr. Fishopolis posted:i'm becoming increasingly curious as to what exactly it is you do for a living Does that affect the validity of his points? Some dude is interested in how to start pursuing cinematography and gets inflammatory posts about how you HAVE to be holding a light meter 24/7 and have an eye just like Kubrick or don't even bother. I mean, that doesn't exactly make me want to post in this thread if I'm gonna get chewed out for doing things differently than other folks. Especially as the industry and technology are changing. There's certainly no need to be nasty about it, either on the forums or in real life (especially on the set)
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Dec 3, 2010 00:52
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bassguitarhero posted:Does that affect the validity of his points? Some dude is interested in how to start pursuing cinematography and gets inflammatory posts about how you HAVE to be holding a light meter 24/7 and have an eye just like Kubrick or don't even bother. please point out where in the thread this was posted
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Dec 3, 2010 01:56
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Dr. Fishopolis posted:please point out where in the thread this was posted You can't go back one page? Two Worlds posted:He didn't say videography, he said cinematography. That's shooting a movie, not someone's wedding. And the best way to learn how to be a good DP is to first work with a single frame, and when you have perfected you skills there, move on to the real thing. SquareDog posted:A cinema DP that doesn't use a light meter is an amateur or a total hack and will likely go nowhere in their career. and, of course: Mozzie posted:Yes, because stethoscopes also aren't ever used to check blood flow or anything, but it doesn't matter because your opinion is wrong and you are stupid for having it. I am sure Stanley Kubrick was just being a jackass when he said that to understand cinema you must have a strong understanding of photography. Having experience on the behaviour of light, exposure, image, language of composition or perspective must be a real useless toolset to have when you can just throw a 50mm lens on your 5D and start making cinema right on your macbook! This is a thread discussing cinematography, not some place to harangue others because they're not fitting into a particular mold. I know posts like these make me want to post elsewhere.
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Dec 3, 2010 02:16
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no, I mean please point out the "inflammatory posts about how you HAVE to be holding a light meter 24/7 and have an eye just like Kubrick or don't even bother. " some guy posted about learning to shoot video and someone else said "you should get a still camera and learn about light and focal lengths and shutter speeds" that's great advice. if you think that stuff doesn't matter, your video is almost certainly horrible, and your opinion is wrong. if you know someone who calls themselves a DP who does not own a light meter, that person is an incompetent douchebag. yes, you can shoot your gramma and kitty cats with your handicam in full auto, but this is the loving cinematography thread and you should take that elsewhere. nobody ever said you have to be a master photographer to shoot video or film. that was an inane strawman invented by a bad poster. Dr. Fishopolis fucked around with this message at 03:39 on Dec 3, 2010 |
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Dec 3, 2010 03:36
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See this is what I'm talking about. People are interested in learning about cinematography, offer them suggestions and opinions and all that, but getting condescending about "you do this or you're a hack," and "this is the way you do it and if you don't you're an incompetent douchebag," well all I can say is I certainly hope you're not like that on the set.
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Dec 3, 2010 03:40
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what the hell how is it even a controversial opinion to suggest that a professional DP should own and know how to use a light meter
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Dec 3, 2010 03:44
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I think that a DP SHOULD know how to use a light meter. But I'm not attacking people who disagree when someone's asking how to get started in the field. I hate the idea of people showing interest in a fun and engaging profession and engaging in a thread and then watching as people start calling each other hacks and douchebags because they're in disagreement. Do you know what else is a trait that a good DP has to have? People must enjoy working with them. If you're going to get hired professionally, you don't want to drive off the people you're supposed to be working with by being unable to disagree with someone without calling them a douchebag.
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Dec 3, 2010 03:54
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I'm not calling you a douchebag. I have no idea why you're taking this personally. We're on the internet.
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Dec 3, 2010 03:55
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I'm not taking it personally, I don't have a problem with being called anything, but if you're out working sets then you're not going to be calling any of your colleagues hacks, even if they are. It's not a trait that's not going to get people very far, and for a majority of the people I see doing it who are film students, it's a habit you're going to want to break early. This may not have anything to do with framing your shot, but it's a pro strat if you want to get hired for more than one or two shoots. EDIT: Wait, we're on the internet? Is this thing bugged? Hello, Lowtaxes? Who do I contact to see how much internet we're on? I thought this was my camera's fps adjustment software bassguitarhero fucked around with this message at 04:16 on Dec 3, 2010 |
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Dec 3, 2010 04:04
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exp0n fucked around with this message at 07:58 on Oct 17, 2012 |
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Dec 3, 2010 04:08
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how dare you make hyperbolic inflammatory generalizations on the internet. i have concluded you are a terrible person to deal with on set. i know this because of the way you post on a forum.
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Dec 3, 2010 05:49
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Wow, the last like 7 post are on my ignore list. What the hell is going on in this thread? Edit: Jalumibnkrayal posted:I'm sure you're a pleasure to work with. Difference between you and me is I am. Exponentory, If you have problems with loud pricks who have giant egos and have low tolerance for horseshit from below then the Camera Department isn't for you. When they say its where the art meets the science, it should be where the money meets the drama. Seriously this thread borders on terrible sometimes, It's like HV20.com or whatever in here occasionally. Mozzie fucked around with this message at 06:07 on Dec 3, 2010 |
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Dec 3, 2010 06:01
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Mozzie posted:HV20.com or whatever in here occasionally. don't invoke that name don't you dare
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Dec 3, 2010 06:07
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Dr. Fishopolis posted:don't invoke that name don't you dare  don't you understand... my nikon extension tube adapter with self poured wax ground glass is just like film  everything about that image makes me angry, the worst I think being the super cardioid being blocked by the top flag of the mattetbox. Edit: also how is he operating there is no monitor... what the gently caress? Mozzie fucked around with this message at 06:51 on Dec 3, 2010 |
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Dec 3, 2010 06:46
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I believe that guy is a bad enough dude to rescue the President from ninjas.
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Dec 3, 2010 07:43
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It's time to man up in here. As to the picture? Why? Why? Why? Couldn't you just save a lot of money by buying a better camera instead of all that gack? Or at least rent one?
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Dec 3, 2010 07:50
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exp0n fucked around with this message at 01:02 on Nov 30, 2014 |
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Dec 3, 2010 08:47
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Is that shotgun mic for picking up the sound of the motor on the ground glass?
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Dec 3, 2010 17:33
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Walnut Crunch posted:It's time to man up in here. You could probably save money by buying a better camera all at once, sure, but I'd be willing to bet he's put together the kit piecemeal as he goes. Most of the parts are plastic, I can't see the camera but I assume it's an HV20 since the shotgun's cable looks too thin for full XLR, so I assume that he buys a bit of kit every couple of paychecks or so. Depending on where you're at, rental options may be limited. He may be getting the quality of shot he wants from his rig, I dunno. Depending on the medium you're going for, he may have what he wants and is happier owning it, since he can up and shoot anytime he likes. If you're somebody who's trying to figure it out as they go, you may wind up investing in a cheap camera and then building that up. I think he could use some straightening out as far as the shotgun/matte box placement but then I'm not a film student so I probably shouldn't go around telling other people how to do their jobs.
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Dec 3, 2010 19:46
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bassguitarhero posted:...but then I'm not a film student so I probably shouldn't go around telling other people how to do their jobs. Hah! Funny. When you are a student it's the best time to tell people how to do their jobs. It's the only time in your life you'll be that sure of yourself.
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Dec 3, 2010 20:06
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exponentory posted:no all i'm saying is i've met people that have acted like that and it never comes across as favorable, nobody likes that I don't care what department you're in. I've met some of the nicest people on films in the camera department. I just wanna read more cool cinematography posts If you one a one stop shop for good cinematography posts just head over to Roger Deakin's forum, he responds to questions almost daily.
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Dec 3, 2010 20:26
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exponentory posted:no all i'm saying is i've met people that have acted like that and it never comes across as favorable, nobody likes that I don't care what department you're in. I've met some of the nicest people on films in the camera department. I just wanna read more cool cinematography posts In my experience, camera department comes in two forms: Type 1: high strung, high stress, know-it-all people. Type 2: laid back, easy-going, "hey man, it'll get done" people. Generally, operators are a bit more diplomatic, but can still have a hint of these types. However, 1st AC's typically embody these two types to a fault. 2nd AC's and loaders tend to fall off a bit. Both get lots of work. Some DP's/operators want the alpha male rear end in a top hat watching their camera at all times, knowing he may not get along with everyone, but his lens stop and shutter angle will ALWAYS be set right. Other DP's/operators know that someone good at their job will remember those things, and they want someone who is laid back and enjoys their work, bringing a calm to an often stressful environment. As for that photo a few posts back, I'll say this: the core equipment is almost always eclipsed by the cost of the accessories that make the kit.
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Dec 3, 2010 21:54
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Oh God, after today I'll be happy if I don't have to rig another china ball for a good while. Had to wire up 126 china balls for a high school prom scene. ended up looking pretty drat good, but not so much fun rigging them. Overall though the shoot spanning 4 days this weekend and 4 more next weekend is of allright caliber, one nine-light, and two 12x1k lights, (nine-light?) im not even sure what technical name you'd give it. and an array of parcans. It's been a while since I helped out as BBE and I'm remembering how much I hate laying cam-lock and distro.
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Dec 4, 2010 08:10
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Mozzie posted:Difference between you and me is I am. Well then you must be so in demand because of your skillse-- quote:="Mozzie"]G&E these days, also camera oping on documentary recently and 1st/2nd AC whenever I can. I also do DP stuff on the side but not so much anymore because I am so god drat broke. Well, I'm sure your professional photography skills are strong enough for you to fall back on. Those skills you spent years perfecting before you even thought of picking up a video camera. Right? quote:Exponentory, If you have problems with loud pricks who have giant egos and have low tolerance for horseshit from below then the Camera Department isn't for you. When they say its where the art meets the science, it should be where the money meets the drama. I get a kick out of people who try to dismiss how antisocial they are by trying to spin their poo poo demeanor as a badge of respect in their profession. quote:Seriously this thread borders on terrible sometimes, It's like HV20.com or whatever in here occasionally. It's terrible because of unchecked egos like yours. This is the only thread for people who want to make film and video, regardless of whether they're shooting youtube videos of their kid's birthday party, or if they're DPing on a $20 million dollar big budget film. So you will get people in here who need professional career advice that could have huge ramifications. But you will also get people in here who just want to try filmmaking as something to do instead of another weekend of World of Warcraft. Many people in this thread cannot discern the difference and that's why a lot of people don't post in it. Back on page 18 of this thread I spent pretty much the whole page defending a guy who wanted to shoot a feature with a small crew. Lots of people here shat all over the idea and seemed to be emotionally invested in its failure.
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Dec 4, 2010 17:10
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Andraste posted:Oh God, after today I'll be happy if I don't have to rig another china ball for a good while. 12 light = Maxi Brute. I don't mind juicing, it's a hell of a workout!
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Dec 4, 2010 18:17
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Tiresias posted:As for that photo a few posts back, I'll say this: the core equipment is almost always eclipsed by the cost of the accessories that make the kit. A decent HD monitor alone would cost as much as a lot of these cameras, and then you throw in a lot of the equipment and yeah you can easily pay more for the kit than the cam. If you invest well, too, then a lot of the gear you buy can be re-used with other cameras. A good HD monitor with HDMI, BNC and etc, could be used with anything. If I'd been able to follow my planned upgrade path with my HVX, I would have gotten a 35mm adapter kit w/ a canon mount, that way I could use those lenses w/ a 5D when I eventually purchased one. I had to abandon the plan when I moved across the world to take care of my mum, but a good long-term piecemeal upgrade strategy can get you to a much nicer camera without having to invest in a ton more kit.
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Dec 4, 2010 19:29
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Ok, hopefully I can avoid getting blasted for this, but as a newcomer I have a few questions. Let me preface this by saying I have a bit of experience with traditional photography, I'm not master by any means, but I am simply much more interested in film. With that being said: What is the cheapest way someone with no connections at all (besides I guess knowing a couple people involved in the film department at UT) can get into film-making? I know cameras and gear can get obscenely expensive, but I want to start making films with the cheapest stuff I can get that doesn't suck, primarily because I am not made of money but also because I am more interested in learning through experience than starting out with all the fancy gadgets. Are there any guides or anything that can help me get started? I am basically jumping into the deep end here and all people have told me is that I should get really familiar with Final Cut or something similar. Basically treat me like I have no idea what I am doing at all, because I pretty much don't. I am going to start working my way through the thread so hopefully I will pick up some really good info. Thanks in advance for anyone that can help me out, especially with recommendations for inexpensive equipment and a cheap, solid camera. edit: Also thought I'd throw this in here, not sure if it belongs somewhere else, but: What is the best way to eventually work as a director? I really want to experience all aspects of film-making but directing and screenwriting are the most interesting to me. I am going to graduate with a BA in English in a year, which I suppose makes sense for screenwriting but not so much for directing. Do I just shop scripts around, get involved, and see where it takes me? Or is there some specific course of action (film school?) that I should be looking at? Is my degree going to be a hindrance in any way? I fully understand that I won't just be jumping into the director's chair, but I am also woefully ignorant as to where I should begin. AbdominalSnowman fucked around with this message at 05:22 on Dec 5, 2010 |
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Dec 5, 2010 04:38
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bassguitarhero posted:A decent HD monitor alone would cost as much as a lot of these cameras, and then you throw in a lot of the equipment and yeah you can easily pay more for the kit than the cam. Just wait for the Panasonic AF-100 later this month. It's less than $5,000 and does all the stuff it sounds like you're going for, and does it much better, for the most part. The 7D/5D is on its way out, mark my words. Plus... PL MOUNT :.awesome.:
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Dec 5, 2010 05:07
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AbdominalSnowman posted:What is the cheapest way someone with no connections at all (besides I guess knowing a couple people involved in the film department at UT) can get into film-making? I know cameras and gear can get obscenely expensive, but I want to start making films with the cheapest stuff I can get that doesn't suck, primarily because I am not made of money but also because I am more interested in learning through experience than starting out with all the fancy gadgets. What kind of filmmaking do you want to do? Narrative? Documentary? Do you have the script already? You should. What is the intended distribution method? Will you show your work to people on DVDs? Blu-Ray? Youtube links? What is your budget? Have you considered renting? quote:What is the best way to eventually work as a director? I really want to experience all aspects of film-making but directing and screenwriting are the most interesting to me. I am going to graduate with a BA in English in a year, which I suppose makes sense for screenwriting but not so much for directing. Do I just shop scripts around, get involved, and see where it takes me? Or is there some specific course of action (film school?) that I should be looking at? Is my degree going to be a hindrance in any way? I fully understand that I won't just be jumping into the director's chair, but I am also woefully ignorant as to where I should begin. If you're in a big city there might be small filmmaking classes available at art centers or co-ops. That's probably the fastest and cheapest way. Alternatively you can check your local Craigslist ads for independent film projects that need PAs.
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Dec 5, 2010 20:38
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Jalumibnkrayal posted:What kind of filmmaking do you want to do? Narrative? Documentary? Do you have the script already? You should. More interested in narrative. I'm not sure about all the mechanics involved in scriptwriting, but I do have a fleshed out story outline. Distribution will likely be youtube, or entered into small contests if it ends up being worth a crap. My budget is very limited, I definitely don't have thousands to drop on a nice camera and gear. I don't know anything about renting but right now I have no experience with these kinds of cameras so it would take me a while to figure out how to even use it, which would probably make renting impractical. I was hoping there was some kind of cheap introductory camera that would let me get started. I don't need Hollywood quality or anything, but I don't want $50 camcorder quality either. How effective is something like an HV30 or 40? It looks like I could find a used one for around $500, which is roughly what my budget is going to be for a camera right now. I don't mind saving a bit more if there is something really nice for another hundred or so, but I'm not going to have 3 grand laying around any time soon. I live in Austin, Texas so it shouldn't be too hard to find unpaid work on student projects or anything. Are people ever in need of freelance scriptwriters? It seems like that would generally be the first thing that gets taken care of, so I'm guessing its not very likely. What kind of work can I be expecting to do just starting out? I don't have any technical experience so I couldn't really be an editor or work lights or anything without some training. I guess I can look into UT or the community college and see if they offer courses, they would probably be a bit pricey but I don't mind as long as they are worth it in the end.
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Dec 5, 2010 21:36
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I would post on Craigslist looking for any on-set work (likely un-paid) and take any job you can get. A good director should know how to do most everything on set, it's not required obviously but if you don't have awesome connections or much money then it would benefit you greatly to learn most of the jobs to be able to produce your own stuff from inception to completion. You can take classes and they can be beneficial but it won't make you a good film maker, school enables you to learn and work, you still need to put in all the effort. Start making stuff with whoever will want to help, then help them with their stuff. Film making is highly collaborative and you won't get anywhere on your own. After you've learned a lot and think you're ready to swim with the sharks, make the plunge and move to LA or NY. while it is possible, it's unlikely you will find sustainable work anywhere else. It's hard enough IN LA or NY. To be a writer/director the hardest part is this; making a story and telling/showing it in a a way that people will want to see it. On that I wish you the best of luck.
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Dec 5, 2010 22:22
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SquareDog posted:I would post on Craigslist looking for any on-set work (likely un-paid) and take any job you can get. A good director should know how to do most everything on set, it's not required obviously but if you don't have awesome connections or much money then it would benefit you greatly to learn most of the jobs to be able to produce your own stuff from inception to completion. Thanks for the advice. I will try craigslist, Austin does have a pretty large indie film community (probably because of UT, mostly) so I should be able to find something once in a while. I have a friend who just started offering to help people at the university with student films and he is actually producing one here in a couple of months, so that might not be a bad road to take just to get some experience. In the meantime I would like to get a cheap camera and do some shooting just with friends to get some experience with the filming / lighting / editing process before I drop thousands on a "real" camera. The two options I am looking at right now are: An HV30 or HV40. Looks like I can get one for about $500 used, and they seem to be nice. or A cheap DSLR, probably a Nikon D3100. From what I can tell it shoots some nice footage for the price (around $500-600) but has some issues with focus and skewing which seem to be inherent to DSLR. Are either of these a good choice to get started? Should I begin with something even cheaper?
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Dec 5, 2010 23:24
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If a video DSLR and an hv30 are similar in price and you're doing narrative, then I'd probably go with the DSLR since you can keep and upgrade the lenses. Find unpaid work, network with people and just make whatever you can. The first stuff will be bad but as you go, you'll see what works and what doesn't. If you're serious about pursuing it then youll have additional options but a camera, mic and some friends are all you need to get started. Well that and editing software
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Dec 6, 2010 02:12
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bassguitarhero posted:If a video DSLR and an hv30 are similar in price and you're doing narrative, then I'd probably go with the DSLR since you can keep and upgrade the lenses. Looking at the DSLR, it seems that it doesn't have external audio input. If I want good audio what do I need to look for? Just some sort of external recording device? Seems like that would be a pain in the rear end to sync with footage, but I'm sure the mic that is incorporated into the camera is poo poo and I know how important audio is. Or is the mic on the DSLR better than I am giving it credit for? It seems like wind would absolutely kill sound quality, though. What are the absolute must-haves besides a camera? All I know is that I will need a tripod and light meter. Are there any must-have lenses or anything? I'm guessing I'd need a special lens if I want to play with depth of field, maybe a 50mm? As far as editing software, what is a good program that won't break the bank? Most people I've talked to seem to like Final Cut Pro, but I have no idea how much it is and knowing software it is probably pretty expensive. Probably just wishful thinking, but I am guessing there aren't any free programs that are worth a drat? Are there ways to get student discounts or anything on this sort of software?
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Dec 6, 2010 02:34
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AbdominalSnowman posted:Looking at the DSLR, it seems that it doesn't have external audio input. If I want good audio what do I need to look for? Just some sort of external recording device? Seems like that would be a pain in the rear end to sync with footage, but I'm sure the mic that is incorporated into the camera is poo poo and I know how important audio is. Or is the mic on the DSLR better than I am giving it credit for? It seems like wind would absolutely kill sound quality, though. Get a Zoom H4n and use DualEyes to sync the audio.
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Dec 6, 2010 02:48
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