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BigHead posted:Firm jobs are preferable to externing for judges because a) firms pay you and extern jobs generally don't and b) firms are much more likely to hire their summer associates. If it is too late to get a firm job for next summer then externing is completely fine. As Ersatz said it will provide you with a lot of valuable skills and whatnot. I'm going to apply for clerkships in August, should I be trying to juggle my schedule for the spring to do an externship, or is it not worth the hassle? I've got a summer job already so this would be something I'd try to do for credit from January to early May.
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Dec 3, 2010 02:05
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Ainsley McTree posted:Sometimes in Boston the cops will have a bag-searching table in front of the subway and they'll randomly stop people and ask to search their bags. I've never been asked, and I've never stuck around long enough to watch someone who has, but I'm wondering what they do if you say "no thanks" and keep walking, like they were a beggar who asked you for change? Presumably nothing because outside of consent there's no way the 4th amendment lets them search your bag, right? I may be a lovely lawyer but I'm pretty confident on that one. I saw this on the T this morning, on my way out of the subway stop outside my clinical placement at a Boston-area DA's office. I'll let you know how the inevitable motions to suppress turn out.
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Dec 3, 2010 02:07
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sigmachiev posted:I'm going to apply for clerkships in August, should I be trying to juggle my schedule for the spring to do an externship, or is it not worth the hassle? I've got a summer job already so this would be something I'd try to do for credit from January to early May. Couldn't hurt, and externing was the easiest 3-credit class I took in law school. I wouldn't say it's necessary or anything, but it's kind of nice to be able to call up Judge X and say "Hey have you hired a clerk yet? Remember how awesome of a job I did for you? Can you keep an eye out for my application?" On the flip side, I was hired at my clerkship without ever mentioning my externship.
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Dec 3, 2010 02:18
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My husband externed and when he applied for a paying clerkship last I heard the judge he worked for said "nope sorry full up at the inn." LA county 
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Dec 3, 2010 03:00
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The judge I worked for had a blanket policy of not hiring interns because he didn't want to have to play favorites or something to that effect. I guess that makes sense but still Anyway temp job update: the finance department at my job (which pays my checks because I'm a freelancer and not an employee) literally lost all but one of my invoices for the month of november. And that one invoice was for the half-week before thanksgiving and didn't cover my rent Thank god my mom likes me
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Dec 3, 2010 03:03
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Ainsley McTree posted:The judge I worked for had a blanket policy of not hiring interns because he didn't want to have to play favorites or something to that effect. I guess that makes sense but still Sounds like you need a lawyer OH HO HO
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Dec 3, 2010 03:51
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Tokelau All Star posted:Day Five of sobriety. Last day of classes, then a week before the first final. Kill me now. Why would you be sober NOW, of all times?
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Dec 3, 2010 05:12
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Ainsley McTree posted:The judge I worked for had a blanket policy of not hiring interns because he didn't want to have to play favorites or something to that effect. I guess that makes sense but still Tonight I turned my old law school student ID into a bottle opener 
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Dec 3, 2010 05:32
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A sparklee in the law thread? It's been a while since I've seen one of those *makes forced pun about sparkling things and the recession*
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Dec 3, 2010 05:42
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Ersatz posted:Even for biglaw it's not a negative. If you can summer with a firm go with that, but otherwise a judicial internship is fine from a career perspective, and will actually provide a lot of value to you in terms of the skills and knowledge you will develop. I interned for a state trial court last summer and it worked out fine for biglaw. Really, unless you get a firm job as a 1L, there isn't much difference in terms of raw prestige. What is different is what you can talk about during OCI when they ask "Tellme about your job," or "what was an interesting case you worked on." Internships are baller for this, IF you get a judge who actually is giving you substantive work. Some of them are "fetch coffee. find these cases on westlaw and print them out." The big consideration for 1L is "connections." Firms really care that you want to live in their town, so working there your 1L summer helps you explain why you want to go there. This is ESPECIALLY true for smaller markets; I applied to a few firms in my home state as "safeties" in addition to NYC, and none of them were buying it that I wanted to stick around there.
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Dec 3, 2010 06:14
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Weeks 1 - 13: hard studying student. Week 14: realized I still haven't gotten it. Drinking constantly. gently caress law school. When the inevitable B+'s come back, conversation about the steps beyond "Q: what's best in life? A: being a lawyer" will be in order. I hear elevator repairmen are paid top dollar.
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Dec 3, 2010 06:39
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atlas of bugs posted:Tonight I turned my old law school student ID into a bottle opener a pipe broke and our basement flooded, so I put all of my electronics up on case books literally the most useful they have ever been I kept the law school ID though, because it still gets me into the undergrad gym
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Dec 3, 2010 08:27
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Napoleon I posted:The big consideration for 1L is "connections." Firms really care that you want to live in their town, so working there your 1L summer helps you explain why you want to go there. This is ESPECIALLY true for smaller markets; I applied to a few firms in my home state as "safeties" in addition to NYC, and none of them were buying it that I wanted to stick around there. Yup. 1Ls pay attention to this. I did fine with Seattle and SoCal firms because I've lived and worked in those areas a lot, and did my 1L job in the city I'll be in next summer. I did terrible with everything east coast and only got one CB from an SF firm despite going to a major Bay area school in large part because I had almost zero history with those areas. quote:Weeks 1 - 13: hard studying student. You realized you haven't gotten it like, you don't understand the material, or realize you haven't gotten it like you should have been drinking this entire time. You should have been drinking this entire time. We aren't bullshitting around when we say relax and try to have a good time for most of the semester and then hit our DropBox and your school's outline banks come finals time... sigmachiev fucked around with this message at 08:41 on Dec 3, 2010 |
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Dec 3, 2010 08:38
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Napoleon I posted:The big consideration for 1L is "connections." Firms really care that you want to live in their town, so working there your 1L summer helps you explain why you want to go there. This is ESPECIALLY true for smaller markets; I applied to a few firms in my home state as "safeties" in addition to NYC, and none of them were buying it that I wanted to stick around there. Or, if your hometown (or home college town where you spent your undergrad years + 2 more years working and your 1L summer job) is a fallback city for UVA Law and GT when they don't get DC/NYC jobs then prepare to have your dreams ruined.
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Dec 3, 2010 08:59
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Green Crayons posted:Weeks 1 - 13: hard studying student. It depends what you mean by not "getting it.: You don't understand the material or you just don't remember all of it? I personally can't remember each and every little stupid crime and their elements, or what each Civ. Pro. case stands for off the top of my head but that's the kind of thing that comes with a serious endterm cram-job.
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Dec 3, 2010 09:58
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Angry Grimace posted:You're going to be angry if you don't get grades over 90? "Valedictorian" isn't a particularly realistic expectation, even if you're at an unranked school. Memorization is easy. I did drama in high school.  The material is, apart from some minor permutations of the occasional concept, pretty straightforward. It's that whole "apply law to facts" deal.As an example of me not getting it, imagine this post is explaining in too many words about the amount of time I have been studying the material rather than what exactly it is I'm "not getting." It's a closely related discussion for what you're asking, but I fail to really hit what it is you're looking for. And it has taken me about two hours longer than expected. That's what I do. Every time. It's frustrating to know what my problem is but unable to grasp at how to fix it. Other than "stop doing it wrong," I guess. Green Crayons fucked around with this message at 14:24 on Dec 3, 2010 |
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Dec 3, 2010 14:22
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Ainsley McTree posted:Sometimes in Boston the cops will have a bag-searching table in front of the subway and they'll randomly stop people and ask to search their bags. I've never been asked, and I've never stuck around long enough to watch someone who has, but I'm wondering what they do if you say "no thanks" and keep walking, like they were a beggar who asked you for change? Presumably nothing because outside of consent there's no way the 4th amendment lets them search your bag, right? I may be a lovely lawyer but I'm pretty confident on that one. Michigan v. Sitz Why its OK: -OMG! War on Terror! (and The War on Drugs card is getting played out) WOT trumps balancing tests and acceptable level of intrusion tests. -a subway is kind of like an airport or port -Boston is within 100 miles of a border Why its not: -this is a search, not a DUI check.However, the cops will say it was a request for consent + suspicious behavior by [make something up] (i.e. refusing the search) -no regulatory purpose (but Rehnquist pretty much did away with that angle in Sitz)
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Dec 3, 2010 14:27
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Green Crayons posted:Admittedly not realistic but probably the only worthwhile goal to have at a T-30 for the JD to be worth the money -- and even then, things are pretty dicey, but at least it's a good start. See: this thread; this economy; etc. You're locked in now right? Not gonna drop out? Try and enjoy the ride then, at least. Law School is fun while it lasts.
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Dec 3, 2010 17:42
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ewr2870 posted:I saw this on the T this morning, on my way out of the subway stop outside my clinical placement at a Boston-area DA's office. I'll let you know how the inevitable motions to suppress turn out. They've been doing this in NYC subways for some time now... always wondered about it. oops double post.
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Dec 3, 2010 17:54
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I suspect its the same principle as an airport: consenting to searches is part of using the system. If you don't want to consent, you're free to not use the subway.
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Dec 3, 2010 18:20
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evilweasel posted:I suspect its the same principle as an airport: consenting to searches is part of using the system. If you don't want to consent, you're free to not use the subway. But at what point do they draw the line? Just because they have a convenient bottleneck point that a lot of people pass doesn't really justify it.
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Dec 3, 2010 18:38
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Tetrix posted:But at what point do they draw the line? Just because they have a convenient bottleneck point that a lot of people pass doesn't really justify it. By buying a plane ticket, you consent to getting your junk fondled. By buying a subway ticket, you consent to having your bag searched. By buying a computer, you consent to full monitoring and tracking by your ISP. By buying a car, you consent to random vehicular searches. By buying a window, you consent to peeping toms. By sending your kids to public school, you consent to losing parental rights. By taking out a loan, you consent to all your worldly goods as collateral. By taking unemployment, you consent to drug searches and pee tests. By applying for Section 8 housing, you consent to losing the right to challenge parking tickets in court. By applying for a public defender, you consent to the loss of attorney-client privilege. By going to AA, you consent to the loss of psychologist-patient privilege. By taking out a mortgage, you consent to the loss of the right to challenge your foreclosure. This is a  game.Pop quiz: which of these are real and which did I make up?
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Dec 3, 2010 19:51
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BigHead posted:This is a I started answering those one by one, but stopped. Aren't those ALL false? The only ones that are questionable are: Plane ticket: No, not by the simple act of purchasing a plane ticket. I believe that you may no longer refuse consent to a search once you enter an airport and go near the security checkpoint, however. Subway ticket: Not sure Computer: Again, not by the simple act of buying a computer. Your contract with your ISP may make you consent to tracking. Car: No Window: No Public school: I don't know Loan: No, unless the terms of your loan specifically provide for it Unemployment: Definitely not in Wisconsin, other states could be different though. Section 8 housing: I don't know Public defender: No AA: No Mortgage: No I could be totally wrong on some of them. EDIT: vvv Yeah, while you may have these rights de jure, knowing that you have them requires education (which costs money) and actually having them upheld usually requires access to a competent attorney that will spend the time working on your issue (which costs money). That's the point you were making, right BigHead? Dr. Mantis Toboggan fucked around with this message at 20:50 on Dec 3, 2010 |
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Dec 3, 2010 20:15
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BigHead posted:By buying a plane ticket, you consent to getting your junk fondled. :smugzinn:
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Dec 3, 2010 20:44
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Green Crayons posted:Admittedly not realistic but probably the only worthwhile goal to have at a T-30 for the JD to be worth the money -- and even then, things are pretty dicey, but at least it's a good start. See: this thread; this economy; etc. I can't really relate to the pressure on you, though. I'm a 1L at a TTT, but my wife is paying for tuition and I already have a job in my dad's firm. Nepotism is the way to go.
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Dec 3, 2010 21:33
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sigmachiev posted:...outline banks come finals time... Speaking of which, does anyone have a decent(noncommercial) Con Law II or Payment Systems outline lying around?
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Dec 3, 2010 21:37
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There is a far more on-point precedent than Sitz for the subway bag search issue. http://www.nyclu.org/case/macwade-v-kelly-challenging-nypds-subway-bag-search-program Basically it's a special need search and legal if done randomly. This guy sued because he got stopped 21 times and he settled for 10k. http://www.nyclu.org/case/sultan-v-kelly-et-al-challenging-nypds-subway-bag-search-program
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Dec 3, 2010 22:10
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Kumo posted:I know a few attorneys in my class who took this route and most seem to be doing pretty well (although, if you're not it's not like you're likely to advertise). Basically the question of starting your own law practice boils down to: are you ready to start and run your own business? This isn't the first time the world has ever seen an over-saturation of lawyers (though arguably the level of debt most law grads face is a new development) and fundamentally starting your own practice is really no different than starting your own restaurant, except for the obvious norms and expectations of the profession. It's up to you to work your rear end off to differentiate your law practice from every other lawyer in town and convince people they should hire you to represent them or do legal work for them. I started typing up a few of the things I deal with on a daily/regular basis, but it would be far too long. I'll just summarize and say that right now, around 2/3rd of my working time is learning about and running a business, and the other 1/3rd is "practicing law". I put that in quotes because that's not even billable hours right now. Obviously, I expect that to change as I build a client base, though I have talked to established solos, and if they can average 4-5 billable hours a day, they're satisfied. edit: I'm happy to talk about it more, but this thread seems more attuned to firm practice and law school, so feel free to PM me about it. mushi fucked around with this message at 22:23 on Dec 3, 2010 |
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Dec 3, 2010 22:12
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mushi posted:edit: I'm happy to talk about it more, but this thread seems more attuned to firm practice and law school, so feel free to PM me about it. Or getting a data entry job through Manpower or working as a greeter at Best Buy!
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Dec 3, 2010 22:47
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Defenestration posted:By living in the United States, you consent to constant and systemic violations of your person and property in order to further entrench and enrich the ruling class This, but unironically.
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Dec 4, 2010 00:20
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Got 2 letters in the mail today 1) Letter from access group reminding me my account is past due 2) Letter from northeastern soliciting donations come on On the plus side, I got a cool $300 from my job today! If I give the whole thing to access group it'll...change nothing. I bought booze instead. And a burrito because hey it's pay day why not treat myself why is anyone in this thread still in or considering law school Ainsley McTree fucked around with this message at 02:39 on Dec 4, 2010 |
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Dec 4, 2010 02:35
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So tonight I have to write another 1000 words for one paper, polish up another, and rewrite/add to a third based on comments received when I presented it to a government body today. That'll bring me to Saturday, which gives me 48 hours to research and write a paper that's 7500 words minimum. I'm doing 3L entirely wrong. Seriously considering cocaine now
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Dec 4, 2010 02:41
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CmdrSmirnoff posted:So tonight I have to write another 1000 words for one paper, polish up another, and rewrite/add to a third based on comments received when I presented it to a government body today. That'll bring me to Saturday, which gives me 48 hours to research and write a paper that's 7500 words minimum. During the fall semester of my third year, I've assumed presidency of my school's public interest group, competed in the ABA Labor Law trial competition, taken the MPRE, written a seminar paper, and spent about 30 hours a week working my school's clinical program. Third year's been awful. Based on this, I think that I, also, am doing 3L entirely wrong. That said, I managed to snag a state judicial clerkship, so studying for finals shouldn't be so stressful this time around. I just have to pass. 
Throne of Bhalz fucked around with this message at 03:07 on Dec 4, 2010 |
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Dec 4, 2010 02:57
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CmdrSmirnoff posted:So tonight I have to write another 1000 words for one paper, polish up another, and rewrite/add to a third based on comments received when I presented it to a government body today. That'll bring me to Saturday, which gives me 48 hours to research and write a paper that's 7500 words minimum. Just drink a lot of coffee and word vomit on the page; you'll have 7500 words before you know it. For late night studying, I always recommend just getting an espresso machine over just chugging energy drinks. It's not feasible if you're a study at the library type, but drinking real latte's keeps me up for those all-night study sessions without those weird shakes I get from Red Bull where my mind is sluggish and tired mud but my body is totally wired.
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Dec 4, 2010 03:00
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CmdrSmirnoff posted:So tonight I have to write another 1000 words for one paper, polish up another, and rewrite/add to a third based on comments received when I presented it to a government body today. That'll bring me to Saturday, which gives me 48 hours to research and write a paper that's 7500 words minimum. I'm an absolute last minute type of guy too, but researching and writing a 7500 word paper in 2 days is beyond what I'd try. That's some intense procrastination I've got 4 days to read and outline a 1200 word book written by the prof on a fairly arcane and particular area of the law good enough to take a 100% exam. Book is still in the shrinkwrap, only went to the first and last class. Should be entertaining
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Dec 4, 2010 03:48
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Ainsley McTree posted:Got 2 letters in the mail today you are a dumb failure; I'm special, etc.
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Dec 4, 2010 03:52
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mushi posted:
12 years into a small firm, and my billable to non-billable split is around 80% to 20%. I have more indirect overhead paying for my share of the office overhead (office manager, accountant, secretarial, marketing, etc.) But it is nothing like biglaw overhead. If I bill 1700 hours per year at $200 per hour and collect 80% of it, it is a great year, even paying overhead. If I worked out of my basement and billed and collected 1000 hours per year at $100 per hour with no overhead, that would be pretty good, too. But I don't generate enough of my own clients to make that feasible.
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Dec 4, 2010 04:12
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hypocrite lecteur posted:I'm an absolute last minute type of guy too, but researching and writing a 7500 word paper in 2 days is beyond what I'd try. That's some intense procrastination I pretty much started working on my 4 papers last week, around Wednesday. So 3 papers in 9 days in itself is pretty goddamn good, especially since I was completely wrapped up in Steam sales and put a pile of hours into Alpha Protocol and Recettear. This paper is hard (on obscure area of class action certification) and I'm not confident I can do this, but if I can keep my senses throughout a monster two-day writing binge and get someone to proofread it I think I can squeeze in. I don't think I'm even going to go to sleep properly tonight, I'll just write until the words don't make sense, set the alarm clock for 3 hours, and repeat that pattern until Monday afternoon.
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Dec 4, 2010 04:30
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Man I was a procrastinator in law school but that impresses even me. I mostly just wrote my papers at work while I was supposed to be working using company computers (part-time evening program 4 lyfe)
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Ainsley McTree posted:Got 2 letters in the mail today Put the letter from the access group in the prepaid envelop northeastern sent you. Send it.
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