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poopinmymouth posted:Were you honestly on top of things enough at 17/18/19 to be able to tell a scam that well run? They show you amazing work (from 1-2 randomly good people that happened to move through their doors) huge labs, impressive buildings, and know exactly how to psychologically pull in kids who want to be a photog/game designer/architect. One college I have lectured at actually hired a marketing firm to make all their promotional material sent out to high schools, complete with paid model shoots of random non students pretending to game design in tron-esque studio sets. Heh- http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/collegeinc/view/
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Dec 1, 2010 23:47
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McMadCow posted:Yeah, I think the huge disparity comes from the fact that the instructors at these for-profit schools have no motivation whatsoever to cull the poor students from the ranks. Hell, even at the JC I attend I've seen many students dropped for absence or for missing assignments. This school seems to be better than most of these places and didnt seem to be raking in the money since the "campus" was not that nice and tuition was not that much more the public school I went to (for non arts stuff). That said, I am not sure how much someone would really get out of it, and talking to one of the past teachers who shot for some pretty big magazines he didnt seem to keen on the place.
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Dec 1, 2010 23:59
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psylent posted:Not to be creepy here (I'm a very happily married man), but I don't think you do. You like taking her photo, she seems to like posing for you and we all appreciate the photos when they're posted I concur. There's a certain quality or familiarity to her expressions when she poses for you that shows that there's an actual connection between photographer and subject. It makes a huge difference, because the end product has so much more feeling to it that is ridiculously hard to fake or coax out of a complete stranger. She obviously really likes having her picture taken by you, and you obviously like taking her picture, so the synergy you've captured as a result shines through in every photo. I like your shots primarily because they don't look like typical posed model shots, there's a subtext of intimacy implied in your work that makes the viewer feel like they're accessing something secret. Some people will go their whole career never nailing that look as well as you already have.
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Dec 2, 2010 01:29
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ZoCrowes posted:Hahaha what can I say she is usually willing to let me take photos of her and be patient with me while I am figuring out what the hell I am doing. I need to find some new models. I would def. suggest finding some new models - everyone needs variety and working with people you are not already comfortable with is a challenge we all need to build.
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Dec 2, 2010 01:48
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Oprah Haza posted:I would def. suggest finding some new models - everyone needs variety and working with people you are not already comfortable with is a challenge we all need to build. Also a good point.
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Dec 2, 2010 01:51
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m4mbo posted:Added together the value of the 500d body, the other body they offered (Olympus E-620) and the two lenses they were offering (75-300mm f4.5 and 28mm f2.8) I just talked to my insurance guy about getting all my gear added on as a rider. Cool it worked out for you, thanks for reminding me.
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Dec 2, 2010 01:52
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ZoCrowes posted:Hahaha what can I say she is usually willing to let me take photos of her and be patient with me while I am figuring out what the hell I am doing. I need to find some new models.
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Dec 2, 2010 02:08
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Is this thread now about ZoCrowes girlfriend?
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Dec 2, 2010 02:10
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Helmacron posted:I find, more and more often, that when I don't understand a lengthy explanation after reading it five times, and one time out loud, and recording it and playing it back to myself, and then transcribing it into little single syllable words, and reading that over and over, and pumping it through babelfish and back for a while, then writing it out short-hand, eating it, and then vomiting it up past my mouth and out my nose, pulling it gently, wet with acid, from my right nostril and unfolding it and photographing it under black light for that shred of illumination...
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Dec 2, 2010 02:13
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Paragon8 posted:Is this thread now about ZoCrowes girlfriend? We can only hope so.
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Dec 2, 2010 02:22
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krackmonkey posted:I concur. There's a certain quality or familiarity to her expressions when she poses for you that shows that there's an actual connection between photographer and subject. It makes a huge difference, because the end product has so much more feeling to it that is ridiculously hard to fake or coax out of a complete stranger. She obviously really likes having her picture taken by you, and you obviously like taking her picture, so the synergy you've captured as a result shines through in every photo. Wow, man thanks that means a lot to me. As others have said it is good to diversify a bit though. Paragon8 posted:Is this thread now about ZoCrowes girlfriend? She lurks on here quite a bit. I think she is going to be fairly amused by this. Or horrified. Probably amused. ZoCrowes fucked around with this message at 02:30 on Dec 2, 2010 |
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Dec 2, 2010 02:23
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ZoCrowes posted:Wow, man thanks that means a lot to me. As others have said it is good to diversify a bit though. Oh I'm amused for sure. I will say thanks for the compliments though guys, hopefully I'll start posting here now and get known for my work as well! To add to the previous discussion about art school though, I can say for sure that I see a mix of both parties. Plenty of people should not be there because they have no talent or ideas, but they have the funds to back them so they are. But I've still gotten to know many people who are talented and have made some incredible work--the two people that ZoCrowes posted are friends of mine. When it all comes down to it, art school is what you put into it. If you don't have any talent or ideas to begin with, you won't leave with anything. However, if you're passionate about what you do, are talented and willing to learn, art school can be a great place. I see it as a resource--god knows I can't afford more than half of what they provide--darkrooms, studios, printing, lighting, etc. And my work has significantly improved since my year and half here. Course I choose good teachers as well, and that's also a big part of it. Not all teachers are created equal. I can't exactly judge the guy in the video since I don't know the context. If it's a beginning class I'd say he's being a bit harsh and not really helping the students out much. However, if this is an advanced class then it really wasn't that bad. My favorite teacher this semester is one who doesn't take half-rear end work. He calls people out when they can't explain their work, but does so in a quieter way than the teacher from the video. Ahh...I have wonderfully stereotypical art school stories from that class.
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Dec 2, 2010 03:38
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GAH! She can see us!
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Dec 2, 2010 04:17
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AIIAZNSK8ER posted:GAH! She can see us! One of my nightmares has come true!
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Dec 2, 2010 04:21
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AIIAZNSK8ER posted:GAH! She can see us! Hahaha yup I'm real.
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Dec 2, 2010 04:31
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AIIAZNSK8ER posted:GAH! She can see us!  I imagined the look on your face was exactly like this old picture from the "Show Yourself!" thread.
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Dec 2, 2010 05:14
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About to embark on a trip across the country to cover a national cross country meet in Portland, Oregon, which just happens to be hosting a most excellent craft beer festival the same weekend! Sometimes this photography thing works out alright. 
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Dec 2, 2010 05:17
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AIIAZNSK8ER posted:Sometimes you just gotta believe in the actuarial sciences.
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Dec 2, 2010 08:56
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A reminder to not throw all my money down the slr blackhole  
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Dec 2, 2010 12:43
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pwn posted:The actuarial sciences determined that my dad didn't do enough to prevent his death, leaving my mum with three thousand dollars of debt That's really awful man. This is one of those other times when you say gently caress the actuarial sciences.
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Dec 2, 2010 14:33
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coke posted:A reminder to not throw all my money down the slr blackhole Is that one of the guys you pay to take your pictures while you are on vacation somewhere? I see necklaces for sale in the background so I'm guessing its a touristy place. Dunn's Falls in Jamaica had a few guys like that with 5 or so cameras and video cameras around their necks just alternating cameras shooting a bunch of video and taking pics.
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Dec 2, 2010 15:03
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pwn posted:The actuarial sciences determined that my dad didn't do enough to prevent his death, leaving my mum with three thousand dollars of debt 
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Dec 2, 2010 15:14
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pwn posted:The actuarial sciences determined that my dad didn't do enough to prevent his death, leaving my mum with three thousand dollars of debt Goddamn man that's awful. That is the kind of thing that makes you want to burn down a corporate headquarters. And on a much much much lighter note you noticed the 7D in the making of the claymation Christmas episode over in the Community thread before I could post on it. My first thought was "of course it was a fellow Dorkroomer." As soon as I saw they were shooting with a DSLR I was trying to see what kind it was. coke posted:A reminder to not throw all my money down the slr blackhole How is this a reminder of that?
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Dec 2, 2010 15:26
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TheVioletFox posted:When it all comes down to it, art school is what you put into it. YES. This is true of most schooling, but especially art school. Some people choose to spend the $30k a year or whatever on traveling and doing personal projects because they feel like that will help them progress more. For others, art school is a great way to get guidance from instructors and inspiration / competition from classmates. You can't really teach someone to have good ideas, but you can put them in a position to develop themselves. Also, was that guy in the video even a photo lecturer? It seemed like it was a design class. gib fucked around with this message at 20:44 on Dec 2, 2010 |
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Dec 2, 2010 20:42
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pwn posted:The actuarial sciences determined that my dad didn't do enough to prevent his death, leaving my mum with three thousand dollars of debt That's awful, I'm sorry.
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Dec 2, 2010 20:44
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gib posted:YES. This is true of most schooling, but especially art school. Art school is kind of an interesting catch 22 because the people who will get the most out of it are also the ones who don't necessarily need it to be successful. Not that there isn't value in those programs, just that it basically comes down to whether you are a self-motivated person or not. Also what poop said about professors is 100% true. I always took people who were known for being "assholes" (which meant they didn't bother with the people putting in no effort and were totally honest with the people who were). It's not like learning math, what you need to hear in an art class is exactly why you and/or your work sucks in the most direct way possible without any bullshit. Especially in photography where editing plays such a large role.
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Dec 2, 2010 22:21
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brad industry posted:It's not like learning math, what you need to hear in an art class is exactly why you and/or your work sucks in the most direct way possible without any bullshit. I'm pretty sure most people agree with this, I know I do. But the video that started the conversation had a teacher that just repeated "terrible" or "boring" over and over again. That's not feedback, that's just being insulting. Stuff like "your colors are poo poo" or "use the drat light meter" is certainly brusque, but at least there's something in there that a student can use to try and do better.
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Dec 2, 2010 22:31
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I disagree. In the lack of any other technical faults to critique, if the picture is boring, then boring is a completely valid criticism. poo poo, that covers half the pros on Modelmayhem. Lots of technical merits and zero drama. Boring pictures.
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Dec 2, 2010 22:33
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xzzy posted:I'm pretty sure most people agree with this, I know I do. But the video that started the conversation had a teacher that just repeated "terrible" or "boring" over and over again. That's not feedback, that's just being insulting. That was exactly my problem with it. There is nothing wrong with being to the point and even an rear end in a top hat if the criticism is constructive. McMadCow posted:I disagree. In the lack of any other technical faults to critique, if the picture is boring, then boring is a completely valid criticism. The problem is anyone can say something is boring. A student does need to pay thousands a semester to hear just that. The key for the prof is to say "This is boring and here is why." ZoCrowes fucked around with this message at 22:40 on Dec 2, 2010 |
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Dec 2, 2010 22:37
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brad industry posted:Also what poop said about professors is 100% true. I always took people who were known for being "assholes" (which meant they didn't bother with the people putting in no effort and were totally honest with the people who were). It's not like learning math, what you need to hear in an art class is exactly why you and/or your work sucks in the most direct way possible without any bullshit. Especially in photography where editing plays such a large role. Don't you think there's a disservice in not being constructive, though? Telling someone they have no hope of making it in the industry and they should get out now is one thing and may be completely necessary at times, but telling someone their work is flawed during a critiquing session without explaining why just seems like a disservice. More than that, I think it damages. I'm not mincing my words, I think tough criticism is sometimes the best, even if it's a little over the edge. But those kids seem impressionable and obviously they are vulnerable in a situation like that. I would think his harsh criticism could have been met with solid backing, if for no other reason than to humor them. It is like a math class.
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Dec 3, 2010 00:59
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RangerScum posted:
I wonder if she was trying to focus this manually and totally botched it. Or maybe she just applied gaussian blur to the whole thing for some reason. Mannequin fucked around with this message at 01:08 on Dec 3, 2010 |
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Dec 3, 2010 01:06
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Mannequin posted:I wonder if she was trying to focus this manually and totally botched it. Or maybe she just applied gaussian blur to the whole thing for some reason. Probably didn't stop down enough, and later upon realizing that the foreground was distinctly sharp and the background out of focus, decided to make the blur consistent. But hey when it's printed people can hardly tell right 
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Dec 3, 2010 03:59
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I know this is beating a dead horse but
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Dec 3, 2010 04:23
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I don't think you understand, all you need to do is lend them your camera and they'll be able to take awesome photos with it. Sheesh, why are you being such a jerk about it.
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Dec 3, 2010 05:17
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Anyone has a GOOD car I can borrow? Or you could just drive my friends around for free!
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Dec 3, 2010 08:57
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You don't understand, Ben. Your camera takes great pictures.
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Dec 3, 2010 09:22
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Every time I give my camera to a friend/family member and say "hey would you take a picture of me" or whatever, even though I set up everything in advance (Aperture, shutter, flash, everything), they somehow always turn out looking horrible. Either they miss the focus (its on AF), or chop off my head, or SOMETHING. It's amazing.
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Dec 3, 2010 09:28
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evil_bunnY posted:Anyone has a GOOD car I can borrow? Or you could just drive my friends around for free! I have a Car you can borrow, do you happen to have the keys to it? Mhm.. 8am witty combacks are not my forte I think.
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Dec 3, 2010 09:32
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Mannequin posted:Don't you think there's a disservice in not being constructive, though? Telling someone they have no hope of making it in the industry and they should get out now is one thing and may be completely necessary at times, but telling someone their work is flawed during a critiquing session without explaining why just seems like a disservice. More than that, I think it damages. I'm not mincing my words, I think tough criticism is sometimes the best, even if it's a little over the edge. But those kids seem impressionable and obviously they are vulnerable in a situation like that. I would think his harsh criticism could have been met with solid backing, if for no other reason than to humor them. It is like a math class. In math class a cross photoshopped on the white house would pass because the assignment is images that depict culture and an image of the white house with a cross certainly depicts a view of American culture. In art class it fails because that is honestly one of the dumbest most obvious loving ideas I've ever heard. Art isn't solve for x and show your work, it's do something interesting in an interesting way, I don't care how or what as long as it's interesting. A student who can't figure out what that means and how to do it is not going to be successful in a conceptual art class that is actually trying to teach them something instead of just patting them on the back because they have some boneheaded idea of "what's really going on in society."
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Dec 3, 2010 10:48
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Mannequin posted:Don't you think there's a disservice in not being constructive, though? Telling someone they have no hope of making it in the industry and they should get out now is one thing and may be completely necessary at times, but telling someone their work is flawed during a critiquing session without explaining why just seems like a disservice. More than that, No, I don't. You can't tell someone they have no hope unless you've had them for several classes. You can tell someone their work is worthless. It's up to you as the art student to generate content, the professor can only give you feedback on actual effort. They aren't 5 year olds, they are 19+ supposed pro photographer wannabes. My first round of projects I got back, I was scathing BUT included why everything sucked, and truly it did suck beyond any saving. Every student completely ignored the advice when it came time to redo/polish them for the final, and the next projects were every bit as sloppy. At that point I just stopped caring, and that was my very first class. If you are paying 2,000 USD per class, how about you generate your own give-a-poo poo, because I'm getting maybe 40 of those dollars, and that's not enough to write an essay about every horrible project turned in. I instead spent several hours giving feedback to the one student who had good work, and he is now working in the game industry. (not that my efforts necessarily had anything to do with it, just that I could recognize who had the chops). If you have a constant stream of art students through your door, it WILL destroy your will to teach the dumbasses, claiming otherwise is ignorance. Seriously, you just don't understand how soul killing it is to be passionate about teaching, knowledgeable about a subject, be told you are getting a class of students who want your knowledge, and then they do dick all homework, spending 20 min on a recommended 4-8 hour project, or 2+ hours on a 40 hour project.
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Dec 3, 2010 10:55
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