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I'm curious what you think "defense law" is.
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Dec 7, 2010 03:15
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Teddybear posted:Right, right, point made. Did you read any posts in this thread?
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Dec 7, 2010 03:15
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hypocrite lecteur posted:Get into Harvard then and compete with the thousands if not tens of thousands of talented, intelligent, qualified people competing for those jobs What if I wanted to drink myself to death in a downward spiral as my world slowly crumbles around me and my life becomes a never ending cycle of debt, credit cards, and meaningless soulless encounters with my fellow man? gently caress it, let me start over. Let's say I want to practice law in Canada. What would be the least stupid route to do so. Teddybear fucked around with this message at 03:19 on Dec 7, 2010 |
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Dec 7, 2010 03:16
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Or immigration law. I have friends who do it and the only thing keeping them going is 1) their undying passion for it (one of them is an immigrant herself) and 2) the fact that they've only been doing it for a year and they aren't burnt out yet immigration law as i understand it is basically watching all of your clients lose and get deported
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Dec 7, 2010 03:17
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Teddybear posted:What if I wanted to drink myself to death in a downward spiral as my world slowly crumbles around me and my life becomes a never ending cycle of debt, credit cards?
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Dec 7, 2010 03:17
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Teddybear posted:Right, right, point made.
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Dec 7, 2010 03:18
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Teddybear posted:...well. Not constitutional law then. You are making a mistake that many young people make, not just young pre-lawyers. You are pursuing your interests and assuming that you can make your interests a career. Schools foster this by allowing people to major in liberal arts fields that have absolutely no practical application in the outside world. The schools do it because your tuition money spends the same as those who are prepared for fields that will lead to employment. If you want to go to law school, do not do so unless you have a solid plan for how the degree will pay for itself. You need to know how you will convince people to pay you money once you graduate. If you do not have a realistic plan to put your degree to work (other than "I'll be in the top ten percent and get a good job,") then you have no business going to law school. If you do not know enough about the practice of law to come up with a solid plan to build a practice, you have no business going to law school.
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Dec 7, 2010 03:18
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Teddybear posted:So I read through the OP and the FAQs, but I'm not necessarily dissuaded. (Because I'm an idiot.) hahaha
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Dec 7, 2010 03:20
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Solomon Grundy posted:
I did none of these things and look at me!
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Dec 7, 2010 03:29
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Admin law is the most soul crushingly boring thing I've ever had to study....
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Dec 7, 2010 03:31
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Solomon Grundy posted:You are making a mistake that many young people make, not just young pre-lawyers. You are pursuing your interests and assuming that you can make your interests a career. Schools foster this by allowing people to major in liberal arts fields that have absolutely no practical application in the outside world. The schools do it because your tuition money spends the same as those who are prepared for fields that will lead to employment. That makes sense. I frankly don't have a fully-formed idea of what I want to do with my life worked out in my head, which is why I'm also looking at graduate school, academic research, social work, and marketing. Now that you're pointing it out to me, it does seem obvious that it'd be a bad idea. Tonight I got the news back on the free LSAT, and that combined with a lingering interest made me decide to post and throw it out there. The problem is that I've managed to get to this point in my life doing well academically but not specializing in anything or doing anything terribly useful. The closest thing to useful I've done in the past is work in television production, but I elected to not go to Quinnipiac/Emerson for it because I didn't want to put myself in a corner if I changed my mind mid-year. Ironically, I'm more or less too far into a sociology major to viably switch under my scholarship. That's a stupid reason to do law school, and I realize that. I'm going to go back and give more thought into other options; I'm grasping at straws to try to put together some semblance of a career path at this point. I've got two more co-ops ahead of me, and while I was intending to make one of them a law firm, I think I might shoot more for marketing and social work. There are a few interesting jobs, including doing marketing for AMC in New York and doing case research for the Office of Civil Rights that caught my eye. Thanks law school megathread, you insulted some sense into me. 
Teddybear fucked around with this message at 03:41 on Dec 7, 2010 |
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Dec 7, 2010 03:33
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Ainsley McTree posted:I did none of these things and look at me! ...Yep. I'll take a pass on law school.
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Dec 7, 2010 03:34
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Chewbacca Defense posted:Admin law is the most soul crushingly boring thing I've ever had to study.... I'm doing a 4 day blitz of restitution law and I'd literally rather someone stepped on my dick. I'm going to be very careful about picking courses because they just happen to fit into my schedule in the future
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Dec 7, 2010 03:43
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I majored in federal law in law school. It's pretty cool.
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Dec 7, 2010 03:43
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Teddybear posted:That makes sense. I frankly don't have a fully-formed idea of what I want to do with my life worked out in my head, which is why I'm also looking at graduate school, academic research, social work, and marketing. No Wave fucked around with this message at 03:54 on Dec 7, 2010 |
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Dec 7, 2010 03:51
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Wavelet posted:I'm a 2L at UCLA and some people are making $1000000/yr and some people are getting eaten by bears I'm a 3L at UCLA and I would estimate 2/3 of my class is/has been eaten by bears and the rest is in biglaw or where ever else they want to be
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Dec 7, 2010 03:52
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No Wave posted:It's not like you have a career to gently caress up right now - pretty much the only terrible decision you can make right now is to go into debt. You're degree's not getting any more worthless by taking a few months to figure out what you're actually interested in Yeah, that's the good part, at least. Right now all I'm suffering is the shame of looking foolish on the internet. There's another cycle for co-ops coming up shortly; I had some positive feedback from employers last year including an offer that came a bit too late for me to take, but I'm going to reach out to them again as well as some other groups in other fields and see what other career paths are viable. This time around, something a bit better paying, a bit nicer, outside of Boston... Things'll look up. Maybe. Hopefully.
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Dec 7, 2010 03:59
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GamingHyena posted:I'm curious what you think "defense law" is. I'm still curious about this too "Teddybear."Custom title suggests tick defense??? RE: Admin law. Sometimes when I read admin law cases I feel like I've been sucked into a Kafka short story.
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Dec 7, 2010 04:31
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Baruch Obamawitz posted:I found a bar that serves german beer by the liter. Started my birthday at a place like that. Liter mugs are the best mugs.
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Dec 7, 2010 04:42
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Teddybear posted:...Yep. I'll take a pass on law school.
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Dec 7, 2010 04:58
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Chewbacca Defense posted:Admin law is the most soul crushingly boring thing I've ever had to study.... Teaching it is no better. It's hard to keep my students interested in it when I think it's horrible.
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Dec 7, 2010 05:23
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Teddybear posted:gently caress it, let me start over. Let's say I want to practice law in Canada. What would be the least stupid route to do so. As I understand it, going to law school in Canada is a far less stupid idea than doing it in the states, since a law degree actually has a somewhat decent chance of getting you a job (still not very good compared to engineers/accountants). The average school is only ~8-12k a year for tuition, so most graduates aren't in soul-crushing debt like graduates from the states. The least stupid route is to go to school in the province that you want to practice in (don't go to BC because there's apparently no jobs in BC and don't go to Quebec unless you speak French), and if you're going to Ontario try to pick one of the better schools if you want a job. (ie. Toronto/Osgoode, though those two WILL put you in soul-crushing debt) edit: and also don't assume that what work you get after graduation is going to be interesting, because it most likely won't be edit2: and if my girlfriend has taught me anything, it's that the only thing more soul-crushing than being a lawyer is being a social worker, so maybe take a hard look at that one too so you can cross it off your list bub spank fucked around with this message at 05:36 on Dec 7, 2010 |
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Dec 7, 2010 05:27
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Defenestration posted:I know I'm a little late to this party, but jesus christ, you've PERSONALLY DRANK BEER WITH AINSLEY. How were you even asking this question? To be fair I do save most of my hate for the internet
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Dec 7, 2010 05:29
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Low Ping Gentleman posted:(generally useful and accurate info) I will add to this that most of those Canadian tuition figures are for citizens/permanent residents - count on paying a fair bit more if you're not one, barring some fairly specific exemptions.) (for example, the school I graduated from, uOttawa, charges C$13k/year for citizens/permanent residents, and C$30k/year for international students. Toronto charges about $23k and $33k respectively. Osgoode is an apparent exception to this, charging everybody $16k.)
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Dec 7, 2010 05:45
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I took the MPRE on 11/10, and scores just came out. I passed, which will only make failing the rest of the bar that much more painful.
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Dec 7, 2010 05:49
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Dallan Invictus posted:(for example, the school I graduated from, uOttawa, charges C$13k/year for citizens/permanent residents, and C$30k/year for international students. Toronto charges about $23k and $33k respectively. Osgoode is an apparent exception to this, charging everybody $16k.) I knew that most grad schools charged foreign students a higher tuition, so I guess I should have known that most law schools would do it too. The upside in this case is that Osgoode's admissions process is more holistic than most, so if you have good extracurriculars it would make up for a 3.5 GPA if you applied there.
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Dec 7, 2010 05:53
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prussian advisor posted:So now that the deadline for taking the exam has passed, do any other PMF nominees have any thoughts on the PMF online examination? Have any of you talked to professors with agency contacts to try to get the ball rolling on possible agency placements even this far in advance? online assessment was a bunch of ridiculous human resources personality-test bullshit that I despise both personally and as a former social scientist. And no, I need to start talking to the few profs I know that might help me out.
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Dec 7, 2010 06:23
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Chewbacca Defense posted:Admin law is the most soul crushingly boring thing I've ever had to study.... Secured credit wins that prize for me.
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Dec 7, 2010 06:23
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Ainsley McTree posted:Or immigration law. I have friends who do it and the only thing keeping them going is 1) their undying passion for it (one of them is an immigrant herself) and 2) the fact that they've only been doing it for a year and they aren't burnt out yet 1. Working for non-profits helping the poor 2. Corporate soul-sucking law firm getting H1-Bs and the like. 3. Working for the government deporting people. 4. poo poo-law Number 4 is most people. Number 2 makes money. Number 3 makes you evil, but you're a federal employee. Pension! Number 1 is like getting a gig with the ACLU. Pays bad (like lol $80k) so everyone can in right guy? Nearly everyone wants to be number 1. Like 12 people are getting paid for #1.
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Dec 7, 2010 06:54
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nm posted:Nearly everyone wants to be number 1. Like 12 people are getting paid for #1. I can't emphasize this enough. If you want to do-good, realize you're entering into an inherently ascetic lifestyle. You need to be loving sure the "satisfaction" you get out of your work is worth the fact that you'll be making $40,000 a year, at best. Doing something you love is primarily for rich kids, people with very strange interests, and people who take pleasure in self-sacrifice. Will you *really* love the day-to-day work you'd get? Really? And if you love it so much, do you really need to take on $200,000 of non-dischargable debt to do it?
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Dec 7, 2010 07:33
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If you really want to do good, then every month for the next 25 years give ~ $500-1,000 directly to a hobo. It's costing you about as much as law school (probably less given that it's only costing you cash instead of time and employability as well) and ultimately it will probably do more good than you'll ever end up doing as a lawyer.
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Dec 7, 2010 07:51
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Jumping in a shark tank with blood on the water... I've been considering applying to law school next year (and would start presumably in fall 2012) with thoughts of practicing oil and gas law. I have several years of relevant experience as a petroleum "landman" (analyzing real estate title and writing title reports for purposes of leasing, curing up title issues, etc.) and actually really enjoy the work. I know that at least some oil and gas attorneys do primarily high-level work that is similar to (though obviously more challenging than) the work that I do now. Unfortunately, the work I currently do isn't likely to last beyond the next couple years. I'm not sure whether the legal work I'm interested in will last beyond that, but it is certainly something I plan to really analyze before deciding whether to apply in the fall. If it is feasible at all, I would already have a lot of networking and recommendations built up through my clients over the past 6 years of title work. Note: I wouldn't go into debt for a law degree for any reason whatsoever. This thread has taught me that much at least. Fortunately, I have options on that front.
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Dec 7, 2010 07:53
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Totally Negro posted:Good to hear you cats are doing alright. I assume 20-25% having a summer job lined up is a pretty big deal for any law school. What of the remaining 80-75%? Do they all have SmallLaw internships lined up, or other similar opportunities? Is there a significant percentage of students with nothing on their plates despite interest? The other 75% are all over the place. Some have found jobs for next summer while others (I'd say most) are still looking. Unlike BigLaw firms, most other employers don't start hiring for summer positions until Spring when they can more accurately assess their needs. I'm sure almost everyone will end up with something for the summer though--UCLA's not in the T14, but it's still the best school within 300 miles of the third-largest legal market in the nation. I think all the TTTs churning out more lawyers than our economy can absorb makes the bimodal salary even more pronounced. Most graduates from TTTs aren't in the running for BigLaw or elite government jobs, so increasing their numbers has little impact on this sector. However, anyone falling to the left of the bimodal distribution faces ever-increasing competition for those jobs, driving salaries down even further and leading to more lawyer unemployment than ever. I don't see that trend reversing any time soon.
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Dec 7, 2010 08:11
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JimTheSarcastic posted:Jumping in a shark tank with blood on the water... For what it's worth, I know a guy who translated connections and experience with consultants and small companies in the oil and gas industry into an extremely lucrative big firm job. I don't know if that's how it usually goes, or if it's a low percentage shot, but it's been done edit: my sense of it is that if you have enough friends to make it work for lawyering you could get your own outfit going or work as a consultant yourself or whatever hypocrite lecteur fucked around with this message at 08:39 on Dec 7, 2010 |
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Dec 7, 2010 08:31
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Crushed MPRE despite taking PR a year ago and playing Dr. Mario or Punch-Out all class, every class. Thank you old semi-funny Kaplan internet video guy. I wish you existed for all law school.
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Dec 7, 2010 10:57
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Ainsley McTree posted:If you really want to do good, then every month for the next 25 years give ~ $500-1,000 directly to a hobo. It's costing you about as much as law school (probably less given that it's only costing you cash instead of time and employability as well) and ultimately it will probably do more good than you'll ever end up doing as a lawyer. yes do this
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Dec 7, 2010 13:27
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atlas of bugs posted:yes do this Any specific hobos in mind?
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Dec 7, 2010 13:50
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Kase Im Licht posted:Which one? (You're still in DC aren't you?) biergarten haus on H and 13th NE, next to Rock and Roll Hotel
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Dec 7, 2010 14:24
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Defleshed posted:Any specific hobos in mind? just whip it out already
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Dec 7, 2010 14:32
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Totally Negro posted:Also a general question to those reading: Do you foresee a reversal in what's happening to the law profession? If so, when? Or has the dilution of a non T14 law degree caused irreparable damage? The class of 2012 is doing much better than 2011, at least at my school. The majority of them have summer associate positions lined up at significantly better firms than similarly situated students from the class of 2011.
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Dec 7, 2010 15:47
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