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The Scientist posted:So I guess you'd have to get a wire feed to be able to use it for MIG? Or can you use a GTAW for MIG? Could you use a GTAW machine for stick? It depends, MIG/MAG requires a constant voltage power source, TIG, and Stick require constant current. if the power source is switchable between CC and CV then yes, you can use it for MIG (with a wire feeder), TIG and stick.
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Dec 5, 2010 01:59
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The Scientist posted:Omg dude. You'd better lock your garage up nice and tight, though. The Scientist posted:So I guess you'd have to get a wire feed to be able to use it for MIG? Or can you use a GTAW for MIG? Could you use a GTAW machine for stick? The Scientist posted:What does LWS stand for? The Scientist posted:some pics of awesome stuff you weld. I expect to see some aluminum cans and razor blades.
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Dec 5, 2010 02:07
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dv6speed posted:The tuyere is simply the hole the burner enters the furnaces at. A tangential tuyere is one where it enters the furnace on an angle so the flames hits the side of the furnace, causing a swirling action around the crucible. That's not strictly correct (although it's not strictly wrong either). A tuyere is a hole where air enters the combustion area of a forge, crucible, furnace, or smelter of some kind. When your air is being pre-mixed with fuel and ignited, such as with a gas burner, then yes, it's a hole for the burner. But in any other design, such as with a more 'traditional' coal or charcoal burning forge, the tuyere is strictly for forced air induction. The wikipedia article is useful. Check out this image of a very pretty coal/charcoal forge using the traditional pan design. In this image, the tuyere can be seen coming up through the bottom of the pan; there is also a hole so that "clinkers" (coal slag) and ash can drop out without obstructing the airflow (it has a door at the bottom that is sealed during use). And, there's a hand-cranked turbine for forcing air up into the forge. Tuyere design and materials are dependent on the application. With a gas forge it's just a steel tube your burner can fit into, possibly insulated. In a smelter where the interior temperatures get close to the melting point of the tuyere's material, it may be a hollow affair, actively cooled with water. The exact dimensions and material used for the tuyere vary from one design to the next. So, to make a long story short; Ambrose Burnside posted:Also, where does one get a tuyere? They're referred to in most furnace designs but only in passing and I'd have no idea where to get one. Depends on what your exact design is and what you're gonna do with it. Sometimes it might be a complex, valved or cooled affair, such as the one in the image on the wikipedia page for tuyere; sometimes it's just a steel tube of the appropriate diameter to fit your burner into your gas forge. Here is one of the first hits for tuyere; it's a product page from a company that makes copper tuyeres, apparently of fairly advanced design. I think these are for industrial use. Here is a ready-made tuyere and other parts for making a traditional coal/charcoal blacksmith's forge, from Blacksmiths Depot. If you ask me, it's far more than you need to pay if you're just building your own forge; you should be able to fabricate most of those parts (albeit not from cast iron) yourself. Or maybe you just need the pan that goes over the hole in the bottom of your forge, in which case, Here's one on eBay for fifteen bucks. Leperflesh fucked around with this message at 08:28 on Dec 5, 2010 |
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Dec 5, 2010 08:22
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Could someone outline the pros/cons of using a pure oxygen rig to mix with the burner's gas/coals of a forge? Also:  Paging Company Mime, the Corrosion resistance and engineering guy (or anyone who knows a lot about electrolysis)When you are doing electrolysis on acidified water as an electrolyte, it breaks up into H+ and OH-, right? So you get one Hydrogen ion, and one Hydroxyl group ion? At no point do you get pure hydrogen and pure oxygen? So I couldn't, say, use hydrolysis on water and capture just nice pure oxygen molecules in a resevoir, slowly pressurize the gas as I let it build up over night in a seperate tank, and then use it during the day with a Oxy/Acetylene rig, to oxegenate a forge's fires, or put it in a tank in my car that feeds it right into the fuel injection mixture and get mega-good mileage/super low emissions (this last one is purely a theoretical conceptualization I've had in my mind for a couple years and would require a lot more thought, but its works well here as just an example to better illustrate my question)? The wikipedia page for hydrolysis is hopelessly complicated 
whose tuggin fucked around with this message at 18:02 on Dec 5, 2010 |
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Dec 5, 2010 17:59
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Pros: Fire will burn really hot. Cons: It's expensive. Fire will burn really hot. Probably difficult to control. Dangerous. If you want a hotter coal fire, I guess you could have an electric blower and just crank it up. The fuel is consumed very quickly when you use one. Hydrolysis: I you could do that if you wanted oxygen. The oxygen will just collect around the positive (I think but i'm not 100% sure) electrode. I think it's cheaper to just buy oxygen tanks.
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Dec 5, 2010 18:56
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The Scientist posted:Could someone outline the pros/cons of using a pure oxygen rig to mix with the burner's gas/coals of a forge? That would make it a rocket, not a forge. If you're using iron in it, you would have to VERY carefully control the gas flow, because it would make your piece oxidize like crazy. That is how O/A cutting torches work. Once the metal is hot enough, the cutting action is actually just a very high speed rusting reaction that causes it to slag and cut. You can literally turn the acetylene off once you've heated your piece to be cut to a certain point, and complete the cut with just pure oxygen.
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Dec 5, 2010 18:57
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Pros: Cons: * Coal fires hit welding heat with the greatest of ease. I've welded in charcoal. Oldey-timey smiths in the Appalachians are said to have welded with green softwood. Why on earth would you need to pump pure oxy into a coal fire?
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Dec 5, 2010 20:10
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Dongsmith posted:Why on earth would you need to pump pure oxy into a coal fire? The pretty light show, obviously. Also the ability to melt whatever your firepot is made out of.
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Dec 5, 2010 21:32
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The Scientist posted:Could someone outline the pros/cons of using a pure oxygen rig to mix with the burner's gas/coals of a forge?
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Dec 5, 2010 21:51
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Reminder to self: empty the loving quenching barrel. 
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Dec 6, 2010 03:46
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Slung Blade posted:Reminder to self: empty the loving quenching barrel. Sucks, man. Does anybody have some chunks of 1" plate sitting around? Like, maybe a 12"x12" piece they they want to stuff into a USPS flat-rate box and ship? I'm looking up upgrade my workspace, and I've been hunting around for a small section of heavy plate that I want to incorporate into a future workbench.
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Dec 7, 2010 04:33
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jovial_cynic posted:Sucks, man. I would have to look in dv6speed/my joint steel pile to see, but I am curious as to what you would be using this for. Is it to be used as a bench block for hammering?
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Dec 7, 2010 05:35
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I know for a fact I don't have any plate over 1/2". However, I may be able to stop by my previous employer, or welding school and hook you up. If you can't locate anything, PM me.
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Dec 7, 2010 12:03
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iForge posted:I would have to look in dv6speed/my joint steel pile to see, but I am curious as to what you would be using this for. Is it to be used as a bench block for hammering? Light hammering. I work with sheet metal, and my current hammering surface to smooth out the metal is a set of 2' long 4x4 square tubes. It's a nice hard surface, but it RINGS loud enough for the whole neighborhood to hear. Not much I can do about it unless I fill it with concrete or something. Seems like overkill. Having a square foot 1" plate built into the new bench-top that I'm building (which will also include a plasma-cutting surface) will be ideal. I'd also like to incorporate a 1" hardy hole of sorts into it, but again - for sheet metal work, so any kind of tool I install onto it isn't going to be hit really hard. dv6speed posted:I know for a fact I don't have any plate over 1/2". However, I may be able to stop by my previous employer, or welding school and hook you up. If you can't locate anything, PM me. Thanks!
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Dec 7, 2010 14:52
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Alright, so I'm considering welding courses to take at my local Community[Junior] College. I've already been going there for several years working on an Associate's Degree, which I'll be finishing up this semester as well (I'll be taking Precalculus/Trigonometry and Chemistry concurrently with the welding course I choose). So there are 2 courses that apparently seem most appropriate for introductory classes and that are available to me without pre-req's, and their course descriptions. Remember, I'm a little bit familiar with the fundamentals of the processes but have never actually used a welder of any kind before. 1. Gas Metal Arc Welding Principles - This course introduces terminology and procedures related to Gas Metal Arc Welding (GMAW, "MIG"), including power source configurations, hardware, equipment setup, and consumable gun components. Students are presented with practical applications related to shielding gas flow, weld bead characteristics, and weld bead geometry needed for certifications in fillet and groove weld fabrication. 2. Welding fabrication Fundamentals and Machine Elements - This course introduces general drawing fundamentals, drawing construction, sketching, and drawing view placement, along with fabrication techniques, fabrication setup, fixtures, jigs, and templates. Fabrication fundamentals, including tack and fit-up technique, using squares, plum-bobs, levels, rulers and machine elements, are also introduced. Both of these classes are 7 hrs a day, 4 days a week. I'm leaning towards the latter one, because my ideal vocational course right now would be simply "machining" or "metal shop" or something, like what Slung Blade is taking, but I don't see any courses that specific, I guess because this is a local community college, not a Poly-Tech school. There is SOME stuff under the Aerospace Program (that type of thing is pretty big around here because this county is the home of Kennedy Space Center), but it looks like I would have to apply for a whole other degree program just to take them. What do you guys recommend?
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Dec 7, 2010 21:38
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Is there an arc welding equivalent to that MIG course? I think its acronym is SMAW, shielded metal arc welding. MIG is alright and all, but really, if you learn arc welding or O/A welding first, MIG is just an extension of that, and is fairly easy to pick up on once you understand all the knobs on the machine. In my opinion, arc and O/A are better at teaching the fundamentals of welding, whereas learning to use MIG is more about setting up the machine and then applying what you've learned previously. If MIG is all they offer, by all means, it will do a decent enough job at teaching the fundamentals too. It just wouldn't be my first choice. I also look at this from a home-machine perspective. You can get cheap MIG and arc welding machines that will weld a lot of metal, but the arc machine is incredibly simple with no moving bits to wear out. MIG has the reel, the gas regulator, a couple hoses, the gas tank (if you use gas), a motor to drive the wheel, plus you have to thread the wire and all that other poo poo. Arc is just a plug wire, a grounding clamp, and the stinger, and like one knob to control the heat. I dunno, maybe I'm just old fashioned.
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Dec 8, 2010 00:47
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Slung Blade posted:If MIG is all they offer, by all means, it will do a decent enough job at teaching the fundamentals too. It just wouldn't be my first choice. Chiming in to echo this. When I first started to weld, I bought a MIG, and after a little while of using it, I sold it and picked up a cheap buzzbox arc welder instead, because I actually wanted to LEARN how to weld. Years later, I now own a mig, but I only use it to tack metal into place so I can either use my arc welder to do the actual welding.
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Dec 8, 2010 01:20
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Welp; Unfortunately, the only way to take one of these welding classes, as I've found out today, is to be enrolled in the entire welding vocational program. This is a pretty big deal considering I'm basically 1 semester (this coming semester) away from graduating and moving on to a University. But not only that, the welding program is booked solid and has a waiting list a year long. So I won't be learning to weld.  gently caress it, I'm just gonna order some transformers from Grainger, build myself a buzz-box like you guys said, and teach myself. Don't worry, I'll be thorough. The library at my school is amazing. I can sit in there and read about engineering stuff ALL drat DAY. I'm thankful for that. But thanks for your advice guys.
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Dec 8, 2010 03:29
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The Scientist posted:gently caress it, I'm just gonna order some transformers from Grainger, build myself a buzz-box like you guys said, and teach myself. Don't worry, I'll be thorough. The library at my school is amazing. I can sit in there and read about engineering stuff ALL drat DAY. I'm thankful for that. You're going to build one? You should probably pick one up for $50 on craigslist.
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Dec 8, 2010 03:44
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Honestly you really truly can teach yourself welding and machining. Start by buying an actual machining textbook such as the one I used and recommend as it has lots of pictures: http://www.amazon.com/Machining-Fundamentals-Basic-Advanced-Techniques/dp/1566376629 ($22) Or for a very basic very easy to read welding book: (I have the previous edition) http://www.amazon.com/Welders-Handbook-RevisedHP1513-Cutting-Oxyacetylene/dp/1557885133/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1291776807&sr=1-1 ($12) Just dont gently caress around with baby lathes, mill/drill combos, smithys, etc. Save up some money, keep an RSS feed of craigslist and eBay, and when the opportunity to snatch up a > 12" lathe or a bridgeport mill for less than $1000 comes up, snatch it up. You can make your own DROs for next to nothing using an Arduino and a digital caliper and eBay/toolbox sale hunting will get your lathe/mill running on the cheap. If you want to teach yourself to weld and don't have any money, just watch craigslist. You absolutely can teach yourself this poo poo and if you want to be an engineer it is a very very good investment. Once you start teaching yourself you can probably get a job doing it professionally by just keeping an ad on craigslist and watching for any jobs hat come across. Companies just don't want a blank slate.
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Dec 8, 2010 03:56
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IDk how I missed the part about ordering things from grainger but pretty much anything from there is either a little or a lot over priced. I order small things from them occasionally because they are 15 minutes away but drat do they suck compared to MSC or eBay on a lot of stuff. EDIT: Also, This: http://classicbroncos.com/homemade-welder.shtml
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Dec 8, 2010 03:58
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Thanks for the tips.AnomalousBoners posted:IDk how I missed the part about ordering things from grainger but pretty much anything from there is either a little or a lot over priced. I order small things from them occasionally because they are 15 minutes away but drat do they suck compared to MSC or eBay on a lot of stuff. I've thought about using even a bus alternator, but it sounds like (from what you guys have said earlier) 130 Amps is pretty sufficient. How does he have the shielding gas set up? I've also seen plans for a stick machine from old microwave oven transformers. I bet if I had the resources I could build an all-in-one Stick, Mig (w/ wirefeed), Tig, and induction forge. Plasma cutter might be pretty drat optimistic though. That being said, I won't have the resources for a while. Also, this is a super secret business plan idea  Oh yeah, about grainger: Yeah I completely agree their poo poo is exspensive as gently caress. They said they would hook me up with a discount through my school, don't know what that would look like though.
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Dec 8, 2010 04:20
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When you learned how to write, did you first make a pencil? When you learned how to shoot a firearm, did you start gunsmithing first? When you learned how to drive, did you first build a car? So why in the world would you know nothing about welding and attempt to build a welding machine? Seriously. Save up $50-150 and wait for a buzz box to show up on craiglist at a good price (You'll almost always have to talk people down.) There are certainly people on the internet who have made welding machines successfully. However, that is more of a curiosity to be pursued by someone who already has experience welding for the sake of doing it then a means to an end. In most cases when you consider the time and money spent, you are best looking for used equipment and striking arcs instead of loving with a homemade machine. Now, if you already have a bunch of huge transformers, rectifiers, alternators, motors, etc lying around, and you think you can build a welding machine without spending money, go for it. I will admit a fascination by the converted alternator welders, and one day, I probably will try it out for fun.
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Dec 8, 2010 04:26
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Anybody got tips/tricks/ideas/hints for grinding tungstens? Based on comments I've read on the internet so far, it's currently looking like I'll use a dedicated bench grinder with diamond wheels, and chuck the tungsten in a small drill. Also, I picked up a Miller Coolmate 4 on ebay at a great price. Still deciding what water cooled torch to go with. I'll take suggestions on that too. AbsentMindedWelder fucked around with this message at 05:03 on Dec 8, 2010 |
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Dec 8, 2010 05:01
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I know its basic but Ive seen a big difference when grinding the wrong way. of course always grind with the length of the tungsten so that they grains point toward your tip. I always just kiss the wheel with the end after I grind it sharp. If the wheel is new and doesn't already have a groove I'd try to dress it in the approximate angle you use.
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Dec 8, 2010 06:26
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dv6speed posted:When you learned how to write, did you first make a pencil? You know, those are in fact not terrible questions, I in fact learned how to write with handmade pencils <or rather charcoal sticks, that I charcoaled in a backyard fire>. Built small toy cannons long before I ever picked up a rifle, and had an electric drive waggon long before I would ever get behind the wheel of a car- of course all of these were built under my grandfather's careful supervision. I do feel that if you can start with building it you'll have a better understanding of how it works and I have a lot more understanding of my wire feed welder after it completely broke and I needed to build new control electronics and replace feed motor. However I agree with your sentiment for mutlipel reasons, The Scientist; -> Likely does not have access to an aged mentor/grandfather to supervise his project and make sure he builds it correctly and actually learns from the process. -> It will likely cost more to build then to buy used. -> It will take a long time to build, during which he will not be practising welds and getting better at them. -> Even when complete he will not know if his poor welds are due to his equipment or his own skills, and learning will therefore be very slow.
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Dec 8, 2010 06:49
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jovial_cynic posted:Sucks, man. I think for your purposes, inch-thick steel is overkill. At 12" x 12", half-inch would be totally rigid and impossible to flex even a little bit, just doing hand-work (hammering, etc.). Also, one foot square of inch-thick steel weighs just over 40 pounds. (Density of mild steel = 0.2836 lb/in3., times 144 square inches = 40.8384) That's a seriously expensive shipping weight for just a chunk of metal you're going to bang on. I dunno where you live, but around here there's a few places you can go to buy steel, and they generally have a 'scrap bin' of some kind you can pick chunks out of for cheapo. Failing that, if you have some sheet steel, you could just cut out several foot-square pieces and stack them up. Weld or bolt or glue them and you've got your rigid steel surface to set into your bench.
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Dec 8, 2010 08:16
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Slung Blade posted:If MIG is all they offer, by all means, it will do a decent enough job at teaching the fundamentals too. It just wouldn't be my first choice. The Scientist posted:But not only that, the welding program is booked solid and has a waiting list a year long. So I won't be learning to weld. I was going to say get one of those cheap 3-in-1 units on eBay, but I think Craigslist/used is a better choice.
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Dec 8, 2010 08:44
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Linux Assassin posted:However I agree with your sentiment for mutlipel reasons, The Scientist; Leperflesh posted:That's a seriously expensive shipping weight for just a chunk of metal you're going to bang on. Fire Storm posted:Quoted for truth. MIG is easy as hell, when you get down to it. To me, difficulty seems to be TIG > oxy/acct > stick > MIG. I used to be on the MIG is easy bandwagon. Then, after trying it out for myself, and seeing other people gently caress with it, made me realize most people who pick up a wire feed unit have absolutely no idea what the gently caress they are doing with it. Hell, most PROFESSIONALS don't even know what a MIG transfer mode is. What I'm saying here is, while the physical manipulation of the MIG gun is "easy" as compared to other processes... unless you got the brains to understand the technical stuff of how to make the process produce quality welds, all you will do with MIG is paint dog poo poo on top of perfectly good steel. So keep in mind, whenever somebody says MIG welding is easy, an idiot get's an idea to go to Harbor Freight, buy a $150 wire feed machine, and go build a utility trailer that you will wind up driving behind some day.
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Dec 8, 2010 14:37
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Leperflesh posted:I think for your purposes, inch-thick steel is overkill. At 12" x 12", half-inch would be totally rigid and impossible to flex even a little bit, just doing hand-work (hammering, etc.). You can stuff a 12x12 piece of metal into a flat-rate shipping box, and regardless of weight, it's only going to run $10 via USPS.  As for size, because I also want to have a hardy hole cut into it so I can do some tin-smithing, a half-inch won't be deep enough to hold any tools that I build. I suppose I could weld in a piece of square tubing and use that to hold my tools, but having a 1" thick slab with a 1" hole seems to make more sense. I also work some with 1/4" rod and flat bar, and a solid hole will allow me to make scrolls and that kind of thing in the future.
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Dec 8, 2010 15:28
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dv6speed posted:Anybody got tips/tricks/ideas/hints for grinding tungstens? Check out these things, dude: http://www.weldingtipsandtricks.com/tungsten-sharpeners.html edit:Oh Yeah Good advice everybody. I think I definitely will just buy me a stick machine, probably off craigslist. You guys are right, its WAY simpler, and much more ideal. That's why I post these weird thought processes I have. I probably wouldn't act on any of the more extreme ones without a couple outside opinions. I'm gonna add the all-in-one box idea to the "someday" queue. I swear to god, one of these days I'm gonna have a good idea. whose tuggin fucked around with this message at 17:14 on Dec 8, 2010 |
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Dec 8, 2010 17:08
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The Scientist posted:I think I definitely will just buy me a stick machine, probably off craigslist. Lincoln Idealarc 250 ($200-$500 used) Miller Dialarc 250 ($200-$500 used) Hobart Stickmate AC/DC or Miller Thunderbolt AC/DC ($150-$250 used, $350-500 new.) The tombstone is AC only with a tapped transformer that only has a handful of current settings and is good if money is real tight. The other three machines I listed are AC/DC and have an "infinite" current control, letting you fine tune your heat.
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Dec 8, 2010 18:55
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dv6speed posted:If it fits, it ships... for a low flat rate! (Up to 70 pounds) I had no idea they were so generous with the flat rate weight limit. That's awesome. jovial, yeah I guess you had more purposes than just a flat thing to bang on, so you're on the right track. Even so, definitely see if you can't find a steel supplier in your area that you can drop by and check out. The scrap bin is a goldmine. (well, OK, iron mine.)
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Dec 8, 2010 20:32
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I found 4140 in my shop's scrap bin. That's kind of like a gold mine.
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Dec 8, 2010 21:30
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Slung Blade posted:I found 4140 in my shop's scrap bin. That's kind of like a gold mine. Please don't weld it, TIA
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Dec 9, 2010 00:13
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Make some cold chisels
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Dec 9, 2010 00:40
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AnomalousBoners posted:Please don't weld it, TIA Dude, never. I wouldn't do that. They're my radius bending forms.
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Dec 9, 2010 17:37
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On request in another thread, here is something. When digging a trench in my backyard this year, I discovered steps. I've been excavating since and have figured out that in my backyard is the buried remains of a half-dugout smithy's and/or blacksmith's storage shed from the late 1800s or early 1900s. It appears as though the structure burned down around 1918 or 1919 and was then filled in. Many many things are to be found, though! Following are photos of the stuff without a lot of detail - if anyone wants to see more detail I'll take different photos. I've stopped excavating for the winter, so this is all that will come out of the ground until April or so.  Here you see part of a wagon hitch, a pickaxe head, and some other things.  All kinds of nails and wires and stuff in there.  A couple of leaf spring assemblies (still springy!). I've found about a zillion unassembled individual leafs in the ground also.  A seatback for a carriage.  A cast iron wheel from a horse-drawn hay-rake (this is heavy as hell). I've also found some horseshoes, the door to a forge furnace, and many other things besides. Lots and lots of glass bits and bottles too because I believe they filled the burned out wreckage with trash before they filled it in. This has been useful though since the bottles are really great for dating.
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Dec 9, 2010 18:16
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Wow, look at that. Whereabouts is this?
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Dec 9, 2010 19:12
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Awesome, thank you wiggles. Have you decided what to do with any of it yet? Or are you just going to collect it all?
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Dec 9, 2010 19:28
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