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grah posted:Only if you insist on buying them with a full 50 charges. You can dramatically decrease the price of a wand by being willing to come down to 10 or 20 charges. In order to craft a wand by the rules, you have to craft all 50 charges. It's possible you'll find the occasional wand that's been consumed down to a convenient number of charges but probably not every spell you could possibly want.
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Dec 8, 2010 00:15
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Danhenge posted:In order to craft a wand by the rules, you have to craft all 50 charges. Oh, you're right. I guess I've just been playing with this houseruled so long I thought it was RAW. Thanks for pointing this out.
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Dec 8, 2010 00:27
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Actually they might have changed it in the magic item compendium, I forget. It's irrelevant for Pathfinder though since they use the base d20 rules
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Dec 8, 2010 00:39
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Wands are cool and all but you have to either spend a move action drawing them(then a standard or wait for next round to make a full), or spend the feat slot on quickdraw to maximize their usefulness.
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Dec 8, 2010 07:37
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Tactical Bonnet posted:Wands are cool and all but you have to either spend a move action drawing them(then a standard or wait for next round to make a full), or spend the feat slot on quickdraw to maximize their usefulness. wands are a standard action??
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Dec 8, 2010 16:05
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Danhenge posted:wands are a standard action?? Wands take as long to use as the spell they cast takes to cast, so a wand of summon monster or something would be a full round action. Also technically quick draw only applies to weapons, and wands are not weapons. This is pedantic and most DMs should allow it with wands but I've seen some that don't and actually get really adamant about this point.
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Dec 8, 2010 16:37
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Tactical Bonnet posted:Wands are cool and all but you have to either spend a move action drawing them(then a standard or wait for next round to make a full), or spend the feat slot on quickdraw to maximize their usefulness. Someone has never heard of a wand bracer!
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Dec 8, 2010 16:39
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A wand of summon monster is dumb as hell anyway because it's the minimum caster level unless you want an even more super expensive wand
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Dec 8, 2010 16:45
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How much does a wand of cure minor wounds with infinite charges cost? E: I'm serious I remember when we played 3.5 my player asked me if he could buy one because we didn't have a cleric and I never figured out the cost.
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Dec 8, 2010 17:25
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Tactical Bonnet posted:Wands are cool and all but you have to either spend a move action drawing them(then a standard or wait for next round to make a full), or spend the feat slot on quickdraw to maximize their usefulness. Why don't you just hold onto your wand at all time?
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Dec 8, 2010 17:26
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crime fighting hog posted:How much does a wand of cure minor wounds with infinite charges cost? There aren't really wands with infinite charges in pathfinder, you'd have to make some manner of wondrous item and then the pricing gets a little bit funny if it's doing something nonstandard. I think healing belts in 3.5 were around 750gp but that's pretty underpriced for what it does if you were going to translate it to pathfinder. (It's something like 3 charges per day, each charge heals 2d8 damage for the user, or you can use all 3 charges to heal 5d8 at once)
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Dec 8, 2010 18:03
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Hypocrisy posted:Why don't you just hold onto your wand at all time? Because sometimes I'm using a wand of magic missile and sometimes I'm using a wand of fireball and sometimes I'm using an entirely different wand from those two. Also a DM who won't let you quickdraw a wand if a pretty douchey GM if you ask me.
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Dec 8, 2010 19:58
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Looks like someone needs a Wand Bracer Dungeonscape posted:Wand Bracer: This metal forearm band takes up space on the body as a bracer and can hold up to five wands. Thin loops of thread fit over your fingers, each connected to a spring mechanism on one of the wand slots. If your hand is empty, you can flex a finger as a swift action to cause a wand of your choice to spring into your grasp. You still must activate the wand as a standard action. Replacing a wand in the sheath is tricky and requires a full-round action. Most adventurers just drop the first wand to the ground (a free action) when they need a different one.
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Dec 8, 2010 20:42
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crime fighting hog posted:How much does a wand of cure minor wounds with infinite charges cost? Cure Minor Wounds doesn't exist in Pathfinder, as cantrips and orisons are all now at-will abilities, and an ability that could be used (with sufficient time) to heal any hp damage a party has sustained during normal adventuring kind of unbalances the game.  (It's been replaced by Stabilize.)
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Dec 8, 2010 21:48
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Also since in pathfinder wand cost is a function of spell level (spell level x caster level x something?) id would be free plus materials.
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Dec 8, 2010 22:46
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Tactical Bonnet posted:Also since in pathfinder wand cost is a function of spell level (spell level x caster level x something?) id would be free plus materials. You treat 0 level spells as 1/2 level for the purposes of these formulas. A 50 charge wand is spell level * caster level * 750, so a typical cantrip wand is a fantastic waste of 375gp. Fear my wand of acid splash. Kapow!
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Dec 9, 2010 01:35
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Sorcerors having unique bloodline stuff seems pretty sweet. How do Sorcerors scale though? They seem pretty comparable to Wizards at low levels but getting more low level spells seems like it'd be worst and worse as you get higher levels. Maybe it is only noticable if you have a Wizard and a Sorceror in the same party?
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Dec 9, 2010 02:43
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Karandras posted:Sorcerors having unique bloodline stuff seems pretty sweet. How do Sorcerors scale though? They seem pretty comparable to Wizards at low levels but getting more low level spells seems like it'd be worst and worse as you get higher levels. Maybe it is only noticable if you have a Wizard and a Sorceror in the same party? Well, basically half the time they're noticeably worse than the wizard (odd levels, when the wizard has much better spells) and half the time they're going to be about comparable. The sorcerer either has to pick his spells known incredibly carefully or else buy lots of wands and etc, but that's not too far short of what the wizard needs to do daily, for that matter, and the sorcerer can keep casting about half again as long from his own spells. I can't imagine a sorcerer in a Pathfinder game feeling useless unless someone else is doing something incredibly crazy or you've got a wizard trying to cover the same roles, and in either case... well, you've got extremely good arcane casting as a class feature.
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Dec 9, 2010 06:03
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I've always thought that Sorcs should get a spell slot (even without any new spells known) of the new spell level during odd levels, if for no other reason than to use metamagic feats.
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Dec 9, 2010 14:21
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You can also add one spell known, though not at your highest spell level, if you play a human and your DM allows the APG. That winds up being a lot of spells, as the levels add up.
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Dec 9, 2010 17:47
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Tactical Bonnet posted:You can also add one spell known, though not at your highest spell level, if you play a human and your DM allows the APG. That winds up being a lot of spells, as the levels add up. My group has come to the conclusion that this is more than a little broken, if only for the fact that sorcerers by nature are supposed to have a limited list of spells. It is very cool though.
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Dec 9, 2010 20:29
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Sole.Sushi posted:My group has come to the conclusion that this is more than a little broken, if only for the fact that sorcerers by nature are supposed to have a limited list of spells. It is very cool though. Sorcerers (and wizards moreso) are already broken in half by virtue of being spellcasters, I don't see how you could be okay with that but not okay with sorcerers getting some low-level memorisation slots
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Dec 9, 2010 20:38
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Jeb Bush 2012 posted:Sorcerers (and wizards moreso) are already broken in half by virtue of being spellcasters, I don't see how you could be okay with that but not okay with sorcerers getting some low-level memorisation slots The marks of a sorcerer are that they have more spells per day and a limited selection of spells. Giving them an ability that allows for a wider selection of spells brings the sorcerer in line with the wizard. That is our rationale: class distinction.
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Dec 9, 2010 20:51
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The wizard can do the same thing for free spells in their spellbook.
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Dec 10, 2010 07:15
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Tactical Bonnet posted:The wizard can do the same thing for free spells in their spellbook. Well yes, that's kind of the point. Wizards are supposed to have a wide variety of spells known with fewer spells per day, whereas sorcerers are supposed to have more spells per day with fewer spells known. Granted, Pathfinder does blur the lines between the two arcane classes with feats, class abilities and alternate favored class benefits. In the end, it does provide more motivation to play a sorcerer without feeling unfairly hobbled compared to a wizard.
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Dec 11, 2010 05:00
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Sole.Sushi posted:Well yes, that's kind of the point. Wizards are supposed to have a wide variety of spells known with fewer spells per day, whereas sorcerers are supposed to have more spells per day with fewer spells known. No no, I mean there is another racial trait for humans that gives wizards the same free bonus spell in the book, not "buy every scroll and copy it into your book" copying. That said, any decent wizard stops in every library in every town and rolls arcana for new spells and there's usually something to find, not that there are always libraries everywhere.
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Dec 11, 2010 09:04
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Tactical Bonnet posted:No no, I mean there is another racial trait for humans that gives wizards the same free bonus spell in the book, not "buy every scroll and copy it into your book" copying. Oooh, okay. I was unaware of that one. Also, what's this about rolling for arcana at libraries to get spells?
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Dec 11, 2010 18:10
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Sole.Sushi posted:Oooh, okay. I was unaware of that one. You have to be careful with that because any decent spellcaster is going to get high arcana.
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Dec 11, 2010 21:44
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You can't do it at every library, but every once in a while you can come across a problem and go to the library and try and talk your GM into using spellcraft/arcana/whatever to find the spell you need.
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Dec 12, 2010 01:49
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Ah, gotcha. I thought it was an in-the-game rule, like a check you could make to learn a new spell as a wizard based on the kind of library.
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Dec 13, 2010 08:32
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No, but somewhere there are(used to be) rules for rolling spellcraft to, you guessed it, craft spells. the DCs were pretty silly-high though, but it came in handy at higher levels.
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Dec 13, 2010 20:31
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Technically it's still there, they just took out the exact rules and left it up to the GM. From the Magic chapter:quote:Independent Research
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Dec 13, 2010 23:58
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I'm about to start Kingmaker here in a few weeks, and I was looking for a really good damage dealing character. So far we have a fighter (my friend is going to try the Aldorei sword lord), a cleric, and either a wizard or sorcerer. Since most angles are taken, I figured, why not just take something that does a ton of damage. My first thought was a human fighter (archer), which is absolutely insane, or even a TWF rogue of some type. My in between is a ranger, because I'll actually get a decent amount of skill points (unfortunately losing a few feats early, and things like weapon profic since I won't have levels in fighter), which i'd be dumping into perception, stealth, knowledge (geo and nature), climb, swim, etc to actually help with the campaign as far as a roleplaying perspective goes (this is the one I'm currently leaning on the most). However, just for a food-for-though type thing, I was trying to think of any other really good damage-type characters. If you guys had any input, that'd be great.
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Dec 14, 2010 15:42
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Nigulus Rex posted:Big Damage! One thing to consider for a straight damage maximizing build is an Inquisitor with the "Destruction" domain, preferably also with the "Rage" subdomain, using a (keen) Falchion. Inquisitors can buff themselves very effectively with spells, and destructive smite ability of the Destruction domain tacks on a nice bit of extra damage. If you don't have time to cast buff spells there are also a handful of swift actions Inquisitors get which significantly up their damage output, including Bane (and later greater bane), and judgments which will get them around various DR or just add damage. You should be able to really pour on the hitpoint damage with a build like this if that's what you want to do. Another thing to consider is a Cavalier. You'll probably want to be small so you can have your mount with you more frequently, though if kingmaker has a lot of wide open spaces being medium on a large mount isn't bad. With a lance and spirited charge, on any mount you're doing triple damage on a charge, and Cavaliers get several nice buffs to their charges. It's already been discussed in this thread how a Summoner's Eidolon can output horrendous damage, and a page or two back someone mentioned combining 'strong jaw' with wildshaping into a Huge Dinosaur to put out 8d6 on a bite, and more with vital strike. If you like doing lots of damage at range, the Zen Archer monk archetype is actually a monk variety that is good at something. Honest. Barbarians are the traditional mega-damage dealers, and for good reason. They still work at dishing out the hitpoint damage. You might consider a half-elf barbarian since the flexible Ability bonus can go to strength and with an alternate racial trait from the apg, they can start with Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Falchata. If your gm is up for letting you use a playtest class, look at the revised Magus playtest that Paizo released this past week. They can be extraordinarily effective at hitpoint damage if you stack a spell storing weapon on them. They can stab a foe, have the weapon release a scorching ray, and then cast a ray of their own on a single full round action. Later that means they can also cast with a swift action using quickened spells. Blast spells aren't even the best use of these abilities but if you want to rack up a lot of hitpoint damage, it gets the job done and your group doesn't seem to have a gish in it yet. Alternately if you wanted the gish angle without a playtest class you could try a strength based transmuter wizard. Sacrifice some intelligence to prioritize strength, and make the most of that free ability score bonus you get from being a transmuter. You'll have a bad BAB but plenty of excellent buff spells to make up for it, and by focusing on self (and party) buffing and battlefield control, can mostly avoid enemy saves, which will make your less than optimal intelligence less of a problem. Arcane strike will save you some money on magic weapons so you can hopefully put that cash towards bracers of armor and amulets of natural armor, or potions of barkskin and mage armor, since you'll need those. It's not easy to make this build work, you'll probably need to take combat casting and maybe even arcane armor training/mastery at some point but you can end up with a really massive strength. Maybe take some fighter levels to shore up your bad BAB, but I'd want to get "Transformation" as soon as possible. If you can be evil, an Intelligence based rogue who later goes assassin can do huge damage and eventually grab a very nasty death attack from 6th level on. You can use your rogue talents to get fast stealth, or, taking both of the magic trick ones, be able to cast Vanish as a spell like ability. This means you can turn yourself invisible, which means you can catch almost anything flatfooted and grab your sneak attack damage against it. Plus you'll have half a million skills to provide utility outside of combat. If you take decent Charisma and max out U.M.D. you'll be auto-succeeding on using quite a few spells and wands before very long and able to buff yourself effectively too. There are quite a lot of builds that you can put together to do huge amounts of hitpoint damage. I could probably keep going on and I don't think there is any class that you can't get to put out very high numbers on this front.
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Dec 14, 2010 16:29
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Thanks a lot. I'm leaning on the Zen Archer, after looking at it, because it looks very cool. Though I'm not entirely certain how to make a stat buy for that (we're doing 25 pt). I presume something like Str > Wisdom > Con, as far as priority goes. EDIT: I'm not sure how flurry of blows would work with a bow (that uses 2 hands), and the book says your BAB with flurry of blows counts as your monk level, but at level 1 on the chart in the CRB it has -1/-1 for BAB. Morbleu fucked around with this message at 17:39 on Dec 14, 2010 |
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Dec 14, 2010 17:28
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Nigulus Rex posted:Thanks a lot. I'm leaning on the Zen Archer, after looking at it, because it looks very cool. Though I'm not entirely certain how to make a stat buy for that (we're doing 25 pt). I presume something like Str > Wisdom > Con, as far as priority goes. Not sure how up-to-date this guide is, but it should at least provide you a handy starting point.
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Dec 14, 2010 17:39
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Nigulus Rex posted:Thanks a lot. I'm leaning on the Zen Archer, after looking at it, because it looks very cool. Though I'm not entirely certain how to make a stat buy for that (we're doing 25 pt). I presume something like Str > Wisdom > Con, as far as priority goes. The Flurry of Blows BAB takes the -2 penalty into account, so 1 - 2 = -1.
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Dec 14, 2010 20:03
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Nigulus Rex posted:Thanks a lot. I'm leaning on the Zen Archer, after looking at it, because it looks very cool. Though I'm not entirely certain how to make a stat buy for that (we're doing 25 pt). I presume something like Str > Wisdom > Con, as far as priority goes. How complex are you willing to go for making a souped-up archer character? Monk still has problems with how slowly his to-hit goes up, but the Zen Archer does get Perfect Strike to offset that, at least. You still might be better off (or at least have to roll less times) to run around dipping in classes. If you want to stick with monk, skip the next paragraph; it's the classes. Zen Archer Monk is good for either 2 or 5 levels (depending on how much you like the idea of upping your damage dice), but after that I'd jump into an archer-focused Fighter variant unless you like the random monk features you get after that. Oddly, I can't see many reasons to go into the other primary weapon classes--Paladin would be okay after five levels but kind of isn't a huge help to you except for the weapon divine bond, unless you have high Cha and want super saving throws and some random utility. Ranger might be okay but exchanges your choice of feats for some features you may not use, hence why I'd say the fighter is a better choice for you. Barbarian raging bonuses don't do much for your archery, unless you go for the Serene Barbarian. That would require you to stop being lawful at some point, but you don't lose any Monk bonuses if you do, so it's not a huge problem mechanically. Your top stat is probably Dexterity; you use that to hit. With a feat, you also can translate that into damage at a pretty nice return, and better Dex gives you good AC, which as a monk you're somewhat lacking in; dex is also the prerequisite stat for a slew of useful archery feats, not all of which are on the Zen Archer list. Your second stat is probably Strength, to use the best composite bow you can wield. You technically could replace Dex with Wis for most things, since as a monk you can apply it to your AC and attack rolls, but the latter only comes in at level 3 and you lose the feats I was mentioning before. I see no other benefit to raising your wis, unless you decide to take enough levels in paladin or ranger to get their spells. I'd still have dex and wis with a positive modifier, though; they both stack to AC. Con gives HP but little more to you, int is only useful for the skills you want to have, and cha probably is pointless. So that'd boil down to dex > str > wis >= con, in simpler terms.
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Dec 14, 2010 21:18
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ZeeToo posted:How complex are you willing to go for making a souped-up archer character? Monk still has problems with how slowly his to-hit goes up, but the Zen Archer does get Perfect Strike to offset that, at least. You still might be better off (or at least have to roll less times) to run around dipping in classes. If you want to stick with monk, skip the next paragraph; it's the classes. Thanks. Yeah I'm not worried about it being too complex. I have an magic archer user rolled up that I made that ended up being 1 fighter/5 wizard/10 edlritch knight/4 arcane archer (not in that order). I'd rather have a non magic user though since I'm playing a cleric in my other campaign. Is it even worth getting the few levels in monk if I hop over to fighter after that? A human fighter starts with 3 feats, which I can use to grab weapon focus, point blank shot, and precise shot, which sets up the archer pretty drat nicely right at level one. Not to mention feats like weapon specialization that rquire levels in fighter, which would only be pushed back further by taking monk for the zen archer stuff.
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Dec 14, 2010 22:01
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Nigulus Rex posted:Thanks. Yeah I'm not worried about it being too complex. I have an magic archer user rolled up that I made that ended up being 1 fighter/5 wizard/10 edlritch knight/4 arcane archer (not in that order). I'd rather have a non magic user though since I'm playing a cleric in my other campaign. For what you've asked for, I'd say that two levels is the ideal choice. You basically get four archery feats, the saves, and the ability to fight bare-handed if absolutely pressed to. Flurry of Blows might also save you some feats early on, but eventually the Manyshot/Rapidshot options will outweigh it unless you get enough monk levels to keep Flurry up to date, and you won't.
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Dec 14, 2010 22:30
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