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Heard back from that recruiter I posted about 40 or so pages ago, and it looks like I'm finally getting an interview for that lateral position at a mid sized IP boutique. Anyone have any insights on what differences I should expect for a lateral interview (the position only requires a couple years of experience, so we're not talking partner/of counsel level stuff) as opposed to an entry level position?
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Dec 13, 2010 17:03
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Roger_Mudd posted:I just had more general "the business" of a bankruptcy practice questions. Bankruptcy is hot right now because there is a lot of work in it, and it's not terribly hard to do, if all you are doing is filling out petitions (as opposed to bankruptcy litigation). That's probably what you're asking about, as banko litigation is fairly specialized and the guys that do it need to be well versed in other areas of law like tax in addition to knowing the bankruptcy code. The basics of filing Chapter 7s and 13s are pretty easy, mostly because there is turbo-tax like software (BestCase) that does a LOT for you. Once you know how to classify different information and property based on the applicable exemptions, the software basically does everything. As a consequence, the time allotted to each client is fairly uniform, and most bankruptcy attorneys work on a flat fee arrangement. Typically $1000-1200 for a Chapter 7 and $3500+ for a Chapter 13, at least in my area. You can download other attorney's petitions on PACER and see how much other attorneys are charging, as they are required to disclose compensation on the petition. Getting clients is a bit different in bankruptcy. Word of mouth goes a long way no matter what you're doing, but bankruptcy typically relies on a lot of direct marketing - newspaper and pay-per-click advertising because it's very much a one-time service you're selling. So be prepared to spend some money on a website and advertising. I had coffee with an attorney who has built a very successful bankruptcy firm over the last 30 years or so and he suggested that if a new attorney were to go into bankruptcy, they should probably have at least one other discipline that they could take clients in, because while there is a lot of bankruptcy work right now, it will likely dry up when the economy turns around again. He could have just been trying to dissuade competition, but I really doubt it.
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Dec 13, 2010 18:08
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mushi posted:I had coffee with an attorney who has built a very successful bankruptcy firm over the last 30 years or so and he suggested that if a new attorney were to go into bankruptcy, they should probably have at least one other discipline that they could take clients in, because while there is a lot of bankruptcy work right now, it will likely dry up when the economy turns around again. He could have just been trying to dissuade competition, but I really doubt it. Yeah I could see doing family law and cherry picking PI cases on the side. I'm at a "bootcamp" that says you can make significant legal fees by actually "working" each bankruptcy rather than just being a volume filer. Re:advertising I have heard each client costs about $200-250 to obtain. Did he mention any figures?
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Dec 13, 2010 18:31
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Roger_Mudd posted:Yeah I could see doing family law and cherry picking PI cases on the side. I'm at a "bootcamp" that says you can make significant legal fees by actually "working" each bankruptcy rather than just being a volume filer. I don't break down my advertising costs per client but I normally spend about $3000/month which is less than 10% of my gross.
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Dec 13, 2010 18:58
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Roger_Mudd posted:Yeah I could see doing family law and cherry picking PI cases on the side. I'm at a "bootcamp" that says you can make significant legal fees by actually "working" each bankruptcy rather than just being a volume filer. I will say that I've heard extremely mixed reports on google adwords, particularly in regard to the expense, even when controlling your budget. If anyone has any good vendors in terms of pay-per-click for attorneys, I'm all ears.
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Dec 13, 2010 19:36
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poofactory posted:I don't break down my advertising costs per client but I normally spend about $3000/month which is less than 10% of my gross. What area do you practice? Re: budget/marketing, I'm hoping to find a referral company rather than doing my own.
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Dec 13, 2010 20:06
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I work for my family firm, and last year my dad offered one of my law school friends a hand in finding a clerkship for his spring semester 3L year. Friend goes, yeah, that would be great! Friend then doesn't bother to follow up with my dad, and spends his time watching tv and drinking PBR. Friend called me yesterday upset because he passed the bar and SHOCKER, there are no jobs.  He wants to come in and talk to my dad about finding him something, what's a good time? I told him the truth - my dad can't do anything for him now. He didn't do anything in law school beyond go to class - no externships, no clerking, nothing. My dad can do a lot with someone who is willing to work with the system, but you can't just skip the boring clerking and shaking hands phase and expect the man to come up with a $100,000 associates gig at a downtown firm just because he offered, a year ago, to help Friend find an internship. You will all be shocked to hear that Friend took this poorly, and it is now my fault that my dad can't wave his wand and find a job for my jerk Friend. He's sent me multiple pissy texts about it. Nothing I can do. TL;DR - my friend is a moron, there are no jobs, and he will die alone. Don't go to law school, kiddies. Cortina fucked around with this message at 01:12 on Dec 15, 2010 |
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Dec 13, 2010 20:40
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Roger_Mudd posted:What area do you practice? Immigration. Though most people here would classify it as shitlaw.
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Dec 13, 2010 21:44
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poofactory posted:Immigration. Though most people here would classify it as shitlaw. You hiring summers 
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Dec 13, 2010 21:50
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Direwolf posted:You hiring summers I will work for Room/Board and plane tickets to wherever you are.
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Dec 13, 2010 22:43
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poofactory posted:Immigration. Though most people here would classify it as shitlaw. Look at the income numbers you've posted about before, I don't think your practice is shitlaw at all. Honestly, I have a ton of respect for your business model. Small firm atmosphere, control over your work/life balance, good income... sounds good to me.
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Dec 13, 2010 23:53
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poofactory posted:Immigration. Though most people here would classify it as shitlaw. Anyone who calls someone pulling in over 360k a year as practicing "shitlaw" has some serious hangups about prestige.
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Dec 14, 2010 02:41
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Dr. Mantis Toboggan posted:Anyone who calls someone pulling in over 360k a year as practicing "shitlaw" has some serious hangups about prestige. How about my associate that I pay in toaster leavings and legal experience?
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Dec 14, 2010 02:50
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poofactory posted:How about my associate that I pay in toaster leavings and legal experience? Is he the darfur war orphan?
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Dec 14, 2010 02:59
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So I've done the impossible and secured a really nice job at a non-profit as an environmental attorney when I graduate. I really love the place and the people and the work and it's just a match made in 3L heaven. Beyond that, though, if I wanted to change tracks at any point, how does regulatory oversight look on a lateral transfer? That, pollution permitting, interventions in energy company mergers, and various public utility cases and probably Clean Air Act litigation would be my M.O. What kind of places that, uh, lined up with the mission of an environmental non-profit would look for an attorney like that? Also, at what point after working will my grades and things like that mean nothing to other employers? I don't know that I'd ever want to leave the place or anything, and my grades are decent, I'm just curious as to how that stuff works.
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Dec 14, 2010 03:00
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Ainsley McTree posted:Is he the darfur war orphan? same quality of life
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Dec 14, 2010 03:10
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Omerta fucked around with this message at 03:21 on Aug 17, 2011 |
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Dec 14, 2010 03:17
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Baruch Obamawitz posted:reposting this You probably need to go through the headhunter. If you do an end-run around them through your buddy, odds are that if you take the job the headhunter will call up the firm and be like "give me my 20% placement fee." Hilarity will not ensue. NJ Deac posted:Heard back from that recruiter I posted about 40 or so pages ago, and it looks like I'm finally getting an interview for that lateral position at a mid sized IP boutique. Anyone have any insights on what differences I should expect for a lateral interview (the position only requires a couple years of experience, so we're not talking partner/of counsel level stuff) as opposed to an entry level position? First off, you'll probably meet almost entirely with partners; the one or two associates that they throw in will be more carefully selected. A lot of firms have 1-2 partners do a screen and then will call people back for a full round, but since it is a smaller shop they might not want to dick around with that too much. They will care a lot more about the following, and you will need good answers: (1) your experience so far (2) why you are leaving (3) why are you looking to join them (4) where you see yourself in five years (5) where you are in your search - i.e., will you need to shop around more, or do they have to haul rear end because you have an offer somewhere else Beyond that it will be mostly the same as OCI stuff. Mookie fucked around with this message at 03:39 on Dec 14, 2010 |
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Dec 14, 2010 03:35
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Finished my second out of three exams. On the one hand, I like it when exam questions have easy-to-google answers, but on the other hand, I assume that everyone is smart enough to google so the question doesn't really differentiate the curve at all.
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Dec 14, 2010 03:58
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A fire at my school's undergrad parent knocked out the boilers and generators, so there's no hot water or heat. They moved all exams starting tonight to next week, and are accommodating everyone with hotel rooms. My last exam was this morning 
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Dec 14, 2010 04:25
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NJ Deac posted:Heard back from that recruiter I posted about 40 or so pages ago, and it looks like I'm finally getting an interview for that lateral position at a mid sized IP boutique. Anyone have any insights on what differences I should expect for a lateral interview (the position only requires a couple years of experience, so we're not talking partner/of counsel level stuff) as opposed to an entry level position? Mookie posted:First off, you'll probably meet almost entirely with partners; the one or two associates that they throw in will be more carefully selected. A lot of firms have 1-2 partners do a screen and then will call people back for a full round, but since it is a smaller shop they might not want to dick around with that too much. e: Also, if they're "trying to build capability in that area" or "trying to grow our practice in that are," that's code for "we have no work for you and you will be the first person laid off when things get tight." Any reason for hiring other than "we have more work than we know what to do with" is probably a recipe for disaster. gvibes fucked around with this message at 04:40 on Dec 14, 2010 |
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Dec 14, 2010 04:31
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entris posted:Finished my second out of three exams. Something similar on the exam I took today. I'm hoping that the fact that I took almost verbatim notes during class + the majority of the questions were based on what he said during class + Ctrl F=good grade. Anybody know how to crush a Crim Pro II, closed book, MC and Issue spotter exam? Past exams posted on the schools website don't have sample answers and don't have any of the MC questions (I'm assuming he reuses them year-to-year unless the law changes on something). I've already gone through the E&E for it for some practice questions and written out answers for 2/4 practice exams listed. Any other ideas?
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Dec 14, 2010 04:46
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CmdrSmirnoff posted:A fire at my school's undergrad parent knocked out the boilers and generators, so there's no hot water or heat. They moved all exams starting tonight to next week, and are accommodating everyone with hotel rooms. You'd prefer to not be finished with exams?
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Dec 14, 2010 04:49
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Ainsley McTree posted:You'd prefer to not be finished with exams? It's nice, but as soon as I finished I instantly got slammed with RA work; an exam in a week's time would've been a good excuse to not work just yet. Also I'm still recovering from my 4 paper grind and could have used another week to study.
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Dec 14, 2010 05:36
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CmdrSmirnoff posted:A fire at my school's undergrad parent knocked out the boilers and generators, so there's no hot water or heat. They moved all exams starting tonight to next week, and are accommodating everyone with hotel rooms. Are you at Osgoode? If not there were eerily similar circumstances to your own here in Toronto tonight.
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Dec 14, 2010 06:06
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Gleri posted:Are you at Osgoode? If not there were eerily similar circumstances to your own here in Toronto tonight. Indeed I am. I had no idea there was another Ozzy here.
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Dec 14, 2010 06:23
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CmdrSmirnoff posted:Indeed I am. I had no idea there was another Ozzy here. I'm actually at UofT, but I have friends at Osgoode who told me about the fire. Two Torontonians is for some reason more than I expected, though.
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Dec 14, 2010 06:28
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Mookie posted:
gvibes posted:I found that associates are a lot, lot more honest with you. They will, if not volunteer, be happy to talk about hours, what partners suck, etc. You will also need a good answer for why you want to leave your current firm. Hopefully this answer doesn't involve 1) vague answers like I hate it there, 2) complaints about the hours (unless you are at like 2600 or+) or 3) something implying ruined personal relationships, like "I don't get along with only partner in my tech area." Thanks for the insight, guys. The interview is a full 6 partner/2 associate/lunch deal, so I'm assuming it's the real thing and not just some screening bullshit. I think I have pretty solid answers for each of those questions - I like the firm I'm at now, but there is no opportunity for growth, and we just lost a big client in my practice area (plus this other firm will enable me to pay off my student loans before my unborn children are in college), etc.. My experience is pretty on point, and I've already done quite a bit of prosecution work for one of their biggest clients. Still, it's nice to know that even if I gently caress things up I still have my current job, and keeping that is priority number one. Now I just need to decide on a proper excuse to skip out for the better part of a work day for the interview.
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Dec 14, 2010 06:31
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Mookie posted:You probably need to go through the headhunter. If you do an end-run around them through your buddy, odds are that if you take the job the headhunter will call up the firm and be like "give me my 20% placement fee." Already emailed my friend. If I get called in for an interview, just mention the headhunter then, I guess?
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Dec 14, 2010 06:40
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Baruch Obamawitz posted:Already emailed my friend. If I get called in for an interview, just mention the headhunter then, I guess? Did the headhunter actually send in your resume previously? If so, yeah, you should make sure to tell them. Also, if your friend is hoping for a finder's fee, you should tell him to get ready to be disappointed - firms pay those finders' fees in order to avoid paying the much higher headhunter fees.
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Dec 14, 2010 07:07
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First MSJ and Daubert Motions filed. 
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Dec 14, 2010 07:45
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Mookie posted:Did the headhunter actually send in your resume previously? Yeah, the headhunter sent it in previously. I'll be sure to mention it if/when I go in. I'm just curious about the whole process; I don't mind if I don't get the job for breach of etiquette, because I actually like my job.
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Dec 14, 2010 14:51
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Stunt Rock posted:First MSJ and Daubert Motions filed. Go get 'em kid. I had a judge gently caress me by refusing to strike an ipse dixit affidavit so she could wrongfully apply the attorney judgment rule in malpractice cases to toss our case.
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Dec 14, 2010 17:39
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CaptainScraps posted:Go get 'em kid. Attorney judgment rule is the worst rule until you gently caress up and get the protection of it, I suppose
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Dec 14, 2010 18:22
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J Miracle posted:Attorney judgment rule is the worst rule Judge did not understand the attorney judgment rule.
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Dec 14, 2010 18:25
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Environmental law final in an hour and fourteen minutes. freakin' out, maaaaaaaaaaan.
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Dec 14, 2010 19:46
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billion dollar bitch posted:Environmental law final in an hour and fourteen minutes. God who gives a poo poo about the environment honestly
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Dec 14, 2010 19:50
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Anyone have any classmates become landmen (landwomen)? (This might be a Texas-specific question.)
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Dec 14, 2010 20:33
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Elotana posted:Anyone have any classmates become landmen (landwomen)? (This might be a Texas-specific question.) I can't think of a more sinister job.
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Dec 14, 2010 20:45
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hypocrite lecteur posted:God who gives a poo poo about the environment honestly my professor, apparently...
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Dec 14, 2010 20:57
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