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Hipster Scumbag posted:More of a clamp tesuji than a squeeze, right? The idea is that black can't play L1, or else wK4, bK3, wJ4, bJ3, and wJ6 captures two stones, correct? What's black's best reply? Yeah, I guess it's called clamp and not squeeze. And yeah, that was the idea indeed. Dunno what the best response is tbh, probably to play k4, white l1, black j2 and so on. edit: might be better for black to sacrifice the two stones...
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Nov 18, 2010 22:45
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black j2, white k3, black connects, white connects under, and black seals it up. White's clamp can get counter-clamped 
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Nov 19, 2010 22:21
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Yeah, I guess. Still a nice clamp though 
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Nov 21, 2010 11:34
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Buffis posted:Yeah, I guess. There is also a tesuji called a squeeze I think, or maybe just something from attack and defense. I will let you know when I get to my books. I am sure you will await my reply with bated breath.
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Nov 29, 2010 01:26
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What's everyone's favorite fuseki book? I know people prefer this one book over Elementary Go Series volume 1, but I can't recall which. I want to know which book to ask for for Christmas.
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Nov 30, 2010 20:07
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Hipster Scumbag posted:What's everyone's favorite fuseki book? I know people prefer this one book over Elementary Go Series volume 1, but I can't recall which. I want to know which book to ask for for Christmas. Opening Theory Made Easy by Otake Hideo is my favorite book about fuseki. In the beginning (vol 1 of Elementary Go) is also a good book though.
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Nov 30, 2010 20:11
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Blendy posted:Opening Theory Made Easy by Otake Hideo is my favorite book about fuseki. In the beginning (vol 1 of Elementary Go) is also a good book though. That's the one. Thanks.
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Nov 30, 2010 20:18
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Anti-Joseki question: My last opponent, in performing the 33 invasion, played 4 at 6. Is there a way to punish this, or do you just play it out as 6->7->8->9->4->5?
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Dec 1, 2010 23:41
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Hey guys I just wanted to drop in and say thanks for the warm welcome in ITGO as a new go player! I look forward to the many more games of getting my dick kicked in and then reviewing them with you guys. Just out of curiosity, who is who among the regulars in ITGO?
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Dec 2, 2010 05:57
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Hipster Scumbag: You can turn where 4 was if you like, favouring the left side over the top, white cannot do much more than extend slowly from top anyways or you could capture some corner as well
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Dec 2, 2010 10:47
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Howard posted:Hipster Scumbag: Yeah, if he gives you a chance to turn there, it sometimes isn't a bad idea to take it. In this joseki, white doesn't actually have to push on the second line in order to live - he can skip 4 entirely and still be alive. The reason why white does is because that turn is sente against the life of his group and it's a very strong, thick move for black to be able to make. When the books say "don't ever push from behind", this joseki is one of the most common exceptions.
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Dec 2, 2010 20:24
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Howard posted:Hipster Scumbag: I'd probably emphasize the top all the same - if I'd wanted the left, I'd have played the other 3-4 point, right? I did a little hunting on sensei's and found this page: http://senseis.xmp.net/?44Point33InvasionWReversePlayingOrder  This seems to seal white into the corner more thoroughly, although there's cutting potential at B and C. White can try to cut with 5 at C but seems to either lose that stone or get killed in the corner. Under 15 posted:The reason why white does is because that turn is sente against the life of his group and it's a very strong, thick move for black to be able to make. When the books say "don't ever push from behind", this joseki is one of the most common exceptions. Well, it's still pretty bad to keep pushing from behind at "a" in the standard joseki 
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Dec 3, 2010 01:18
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hey guys, im looking for a christmas present for my brother who's been getting really into playing Go lately. i heard he's around 10k but that might be wrong, he's a relative beginner i think. anyone have any recommendations for books or anything else that would make for a good present?
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Dec 17, 2010 05:52
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For those of you you have played Go a lot, do you find it more difficult to play against completely new players than beginners who have played a few times? My theory is that since Go has so many different possibilities that many different play styles can be developed, so the play styles people develop are designed to counter other people's play styles, so when a new comer arrives more experienced Go players may struggle because the new comer might start out with a very different play style.
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Dec 17, 2010 08:37
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rawstorm posted:For those of you you have played Go a lot, do you find it more difficult to play against completely new players than beginners who have played a few times? My theory is that since Go has so many different possibilities that many different play styles can be developed, so the play styles people develop are designed to counter other people's play styles, so when a new comer arrives more experienced Go players may struggle because the new comer might start out with a very different play style. No, because the learning curve is so steep that a complete beginner will do a lot of pointless, wasteful moves that do nothing but kill a turn while you expand your framework. They'll do things that aren't joseki, that are different and unexpected, sure, but they're usually unexpected because they're worse.
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Dec 17, 2010 10:08
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rawstorm posted:For those of you you have played Go a lot, do you find it more difficult to play against completely new players than beginners who have played a few times? My theory is that since Go has so many different possibilities that many different play styles can be developed, so the play styles people develop are designed to counter other people's play styles, so when a new comer arrives more experienced Go players may struggle because the new comer might start out with a very different play style. This is definitely not the case. A player who has not played a few times will have no idea about where the stones are supposed to go - the sheer number of plays on the board will guarantee that they are bound to make a mistake; and in 99% cases pretty much every move they make will be a bad one. They could theoretically play a perfect game by blind luck, but the odds are astronomically, profoundly against their favour. A player who has played say, 20-40 games and has had a few pointers on opening positions, thickness and shape should easily win against a newcomer since they have a "purpose" for their stones, whereas a new player does not.
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Dec 17, 2010 10:12
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What they said. Let's compare with chess and checkers. Chess has 20 possibilities for the first move (2 moves possible for each pawn and the knights). Checkers has even fewer, with only 7 possibilities for the first move. On the first move in Go, you have 361 possible positions to place a stone. Now multiply that for each succeeding move, and you quickly see why a total beginner has zero chance of beating anyone with experience.
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Dec 17, 2010 10:30
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I would also say that although Go has a steep learning curve, this does not mean that you have to get your book on and study hard and do problems each day in order to improve. I've been playing games since I started at 28k and I'm now 9k by the same virtue; it's a game you can play and the more you play the more your instinct grows- no actual memorisation needed- which is basically why I love this game so much. Even the things that you have to "learn", like josekis, are not about rote memorisation. Many times I've learnt a joseki by heart, only to have my position destroyed by someone who drops in an move that deviates from the learned pattern. Joseki scholarship is about learning why the stones go where they do - in order to build self reliance and instinct. You will eventually have to start reading books and doing daily problems in order to progress, but we're talking as you approach Dan-level play. Even then, there's no substitute for playing and reviewing.
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Dec 17, 2010 11:11
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rawstorm posted:For those of you you have played Go a lot, do you find it more difficult to play against completely new players than beginners who have played a few times? My theory is that since Go has so many different possibilities that many different play styles can be developed, so the play styles people develop are designed to counter other people's play styles, so when a new comer arrives more experienced Go players may struggle because the new comer might start out with a very different play style. Yeah, the closest I think you can come to that is if your opponent is around the same level as you, and neither of you are complete beginners, your opponent may play a a move in the opening that you're pretty sure isn't joseki, but at the same time do not know how to punish. Often, you'll end up messing yourself up because you don't completely understand the joseki, and respond incorrectly. This has happened to me many times, and is the reason why (as oiseaux says) joseki study isn't a case of rote memorization.
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Dec 17, 2010 14:25
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Tarezax posted:What they said. Let's compare with chess and checkers. Chess has 20 possibilities for the first move (2 moves possible for each pawn and the knights). Checkers has even fewer, with only 7 possibilities for the first move.
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Dec 17, 2010 15:13
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Saphire_flames posted:hey guys, im looking for a christmas present for my brother who's been getting really into playing Go lately. i heard he's around 10k but that might be wrong, he's a relative beginner i think. anyone have any recommendations for books or anything else that would make for a good present? Does he have any go books at all? "The Second Book of Go" is a great book for new players. Even if he doesn't have any other books the "Second Book" will work as a great introduction, specially if he's played a few games. Kagayama's The Fundamentals is also a book pretty much everyone will tell you to own. And the Beginner Go serious is great but since each volume is on a different subject it might be better to wait until he's played more or read more general books.
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Dec 17, 2010 19:48
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Blendy posted:Does he have any go books at all? Attack and Defense is another one of those books that everybody should own and everybody comes back to time and again. It was a big help to me when I was about 12k so I'd recommend it for anyone 15k and up, I think. If he isn't 15k yet, he doesn't need a book - he just needs to play more games
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Dec 17, 2010 19:52
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rawstorm posted:For those of you you have played Go a lot, do you find it more difficult to play against completely new players than beginners who have played a few times? My theory is that since Go has so many different possibilities that many different play styles can be developed, so the play styles people develop are designed to counter other people's play styles, so when a new comer arrives more experienced Go players may struggle because the new comer might start out with a very different play style. However if you play against a player who is experienced and not too much weaker than you (say 4 stones or less) and they play in a really nonstandard way that you arent familiar with (tengen opening, dual 5-5 points etc), then it could be a struggle since you dont have a clear intuition about what to do. But even so, theyre likely to fall apart when it comes to close fighting and middle game stuff, even if theyre ahead at the end of the opening. Generally, anything that departs from 'normal' textbook play is likely to suit the stronger player since they will usually have better reading/fighting skills - thats why in handicap games, the weaker player should usually try to keep things as simple as possible, whereas white will sometimes try to complicate stuff. edit: At the 5-15k level, Attack and Defence will probably improve his play more than Kagayama would, but Kageyama's book is so charming and full of fun anecdotes that he'll probably enjoy reading it more, and its something you can keep coming back to. Nodrog fucked around with this message at 02:43 on Dec 18, 2010 |
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Dec 18, 2010 02:24
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Nodrog posted:edit: At the 5-15k level, Attack and Defence will probably improve his play more than Kagayama would, but Kageyama's book is so charming and full of fun anecdotes that he'll probably enjoy reading it more, and its something you can keep coming back to. Kageyama's book is full of good humor and sharp anecdotes, but sometimes he's a little daunting for a weaker player. For example, reading his book at 15k, phrases like "If you can't solve this tsumego, your future is uncertain" made me feel a little made fun of. I think both of them are classics that you'll always come back to, but Kageyama's life and death puzzles are quite challenging and some chapters assume that you know quite a number of joseki.
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Dec 18, 2010 19:04
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Hipster Scumbag posted:Kageyama's book is full of good humor and sharp anecdotes, but sometimes he's a little daunting for a weaker player. For example, reading his book at 15k, phrases like "If you can't solve this tsumego, your future is uncertain" made me feel a little made fun of. I think both of them are classics that you'll always come back to, but Kageyama's life and death puzzles are quite challenging and some chapters assume that you know quite a number of joseki. Yeah, the book is written for people who are trying to get to shodan, which accounting for time and distance is about 2k on KGS. If you're 15k and can't do any of the problems its no big deal, but if you are 3k and miss any of them then you definitely do have a problem 
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Dec 18, 2010 20:27
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Under 15 posted:shodan, which accounting for time and distance is about 2k on KGS. What does that mean? I always had heard that KGS ranks were pretty liberal compared to national organizational rankings, or something?
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Dec 18, 2010 21:16
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Does anybody have a good online resource for learning joseki the proper way? That is, a resource that shows you not only the order of the plays, but the reasons for each play? There used to be a scribd channel with a bunch of books but it got taken down, likely for violations of intellectual property... Sensei's Library and EidoGo are both okay, but they don't really take the time to explain the rationale for each stone.
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Dec 19, 2010 21:41
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Your best bet is probably to just go out and get some proper joseki books. They are usually pretty cheap. I suck rear end at joseki but this one is supposed to be good http://senseis.xmp.net/?PunishingAndCorrectingJosekiMistakes
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Dec 19, 2010 23:30
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Hipster Scumbag posted:What does that mean? I always had heard that KGS ranks were pretty liberal compared to national organizational rankings, or something? Ranks get pushed downward as competition increases. There was comparatively little competition in Japan in 1970 when the book was written, so it was a lot easier to be a shodan. Ranks are still inflated in Japan today because they mostly play each other. I haven't seen Bojo around lately but he used to live in Hokkaido and while he was 4k KGS he was almost 1d over there. They don't get out much. On the other hand, korean and especially chinese rankings are extremely competitive, so if you meet a chinese 4d you can be sure that he is a loving force and can probably annihilate anyone you know.
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Dec 21, 2010 21:07
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You losers are still playing this "go" game eh?
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Dec 22, 2010 00:51
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KGSmod posted:Please do not mention STDs in the EGR public chat. Well what else am I gonna talk about?
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Dec 22, 2010 04:58
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http://baduktopia.dtrinks.de/flash/English/1_Capturing_Method_Saving_Method_1.html best go tutorial ever??
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Dec 25, 2010 12:05
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Prodigious posted:http://baduktopia.dtrinks.de/flash/English/1_Capturing_Method_Saving_Method_1.html Absolutely; No other tale of capturing and saving stones has brought me to tears like this tale of unrequited love.
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Dec 25, 2010 14:59
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Prodigious posted:http://baduktopia.dtrinks.de/flash/English/1_Capturing_Method_Saving_Method_1.html Question: Where did that pig get those sweet shades? Foolish pig solve now.
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Dec 25, 2010 19:13
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Apparently there's a shot of Go in the new Tron movie - looks like a red-assed beatdown to me Click here for the full 1280x800 image.
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Dec 26, 2010 03:32
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Is there a good basic explanation of thickness and how to use it anywhere? This is one of the few cases where Sensei's Library isn't helping me much. I realize this is kind of a high-level idea and I'm a pretty weak player. But I seem to wind up with a lot of big outward-facing walls which, judging from what I've read, should be game-winning if I could exploit them correctly. I'm not consciously trying to use them to make central territory, as I understand that's the wrong idea, but the end result is always that I have a bunch of central territory (at best, or else I can't secure said territory and lose horribly).
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Jan 5, 2011 06:13
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I just last night finished reading "All About Thickness" by ishida and it was a pretty good book. The book is heavy on short, simple, full-board diagrams and I will probably go through it again soon. If you are resourceful you can find it somewhere and if you aren't you can get on kgs and scream about it until someone gets you a copy. http://senseis.xmp.net/?AllAboutThickness The cover is representative of sort of diagrams in the book.
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Jan 5, 2011 10:13
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Under 15 posted:I just last night finished reading "All About Thickness" by ishida and it was a pretty good book. The book is heavy on short, simple, full-board diagrams and I will probably go through it again soon. If you are resourceful you can find it somewhere and if you aren't you can get on kgs and scream about it until someone gets you a copy. Just in case anyone's interested, looks like you can get it in PDF for $10, or on a DVD along with four other books for $40. I probably will. http://senseis.xmp.net/?KiseidoDigitalBookshelf
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Jan 5, 2011 15:07
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Those last three are literally what I am working through right now
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Jan 5, 2011 21:21
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I recently got a board for christmas, and am slightly interested in this game, but I have no idea what I'm doing outside of the basic ruleset. What's a good resource for absolute beginners?
The 19th Person fucked around with this message at 23:44 on Jan 7, 2011 |
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Jan 7, 2011 23:40
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