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Armyman25 posted:Eh, if you're going to commit assault and a robbery, picking uniformed Marines as the target isn't the brightest choice. In which case they could have restrained him. If theres 4 guys versus one, nevermind trained marines, they could have restrained him without too much injury. And in fact, they did. Tacking on the unnecessary brutality is just loving creepy.
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Dec 18, 2010 02:07
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RagnarokAngel posted:In which case they could have restrained him. If theres 4 guys versus one, nevermind trained marines, they could have restrained him without too much injury. He loving stabbed them, he's lucky they didn't kill him. In fact if it wasn't Marines he'd be lucky to be alive still. I think you kind of lose your right to be unnecessarily brutalized when you try to kill someone, Marine or not.
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Dec 18, 2010 02:12
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Grem posted:He loving stabbed them, he's lucky they didn't kill him. In fact if it wasn't Marines he'd be lucky to be alive still. I think you kind of lose your right to be unnecessarily brutalized when you try to kill someone, Marine or not. Institute torture for murderers/attempted murderers y/n?
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Dec 18, 2010 03:20
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RagnarokAngel posted:In which case they could have restrained him. If theres 4 guys versus one, nevermind trained marines, they could have restrained him without too much injury. Whilst I agree that he shouldn't have been hurt and should have been only restrained, I have to note that 'trained Marines' are not trained to restrain but have had considerable time and money spent teaching them to instinctively respond to a threat and kill it. I'm surprised that he didn't end up with a Kabar somewhere in him or a broken neck.
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Dec 18, 2010 03:29
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Orange Devil posted:Institute torture for murderers/attempted murderers y/n? It's a lot easier to make rational decisions about the precise amount of damage you need to do to restrain someone when they are not literally trying to kill you.
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Dec 18, 2010 03:34
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Thats exactly the point. We're a nation of laws, not roving packs of vigilante mobs. Decisions about what should happen should be made devoid of a burning need for revenge. Another point: there is LITERALLY nobody trying to kill any of the posters in this thread, but they are still advocating the severe beating of a criminal.
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Dec 18, 2010 03:42
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Grem posted:He loving stabbed them, he's lucky they didn't kill him. In fact if it wasn't Marines he'd be lucky to be alive still. I think you kind of lose your right to be unnecessarily brutalized when you try to kill someone, Marine or not. dja98 posted:Whilst I agree that he shouldn't have been hurt and should have been only restrained, I have to note that 'trained Marines' are not trained to restrain but have had considerable time and money spent teaching them to instinctively respond to a threat and kill it. I'm surprised that he didn't end up with a Kabar somewhere in him or a broken neck. Except for the part where they didnt actually harm him in real life. What the Marines ACTUALLY did was precisely what I'm saying SHOULD have been done and I am commending them for it. Remember, the part I bolded is fictitious. The story actually happened but they merely restrained him until the cops arrived. My PROBLEM is making up some "hilarious" brutal scenerio and idolizing it. RagnarokAngel fucked around with this message at 03:46 on Dec 18, 2010 |
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Dec 18, 2010 03:44
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red19fire posted:But red, where are the misinformed gun-toting REAL AMERICAN emails? RIGHT HERE! Oh god, I love that old email in a "I hate it so much its funny" kind of way. I love how it all comes down to directly blaming all of the murdered races, saying that it was their own fault that they got wiped out. And I also love how the German banning of guns apparently had an affect on millions of Polish and Russian Jews. I guess their countries being at, you know, WAR with Germany just wasn't good enough. 
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Dec 18, 2010 06:07
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Orange Devil posted:Institute torture for murderers/attempted murderers y/n? Marines are not law enforcement or the jail system, especially these Marines. Would you be the attorney who encourages your client to press charges against the guy who whipped his rear end after your client stabbed him? This is getting a little confusing doing this from my phone, I thought people here were saying that the marines went too far in detaining the guy based injuries
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Dec 18, 2010 06:17
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First of all, the injuries didn't happen. The fact that they were added in is evidence of a whole "This is what he deserved, am I right?" attitude. And it worked, as some posters are apparently finding it hilarious. It doesn't matter that Marines are not law enforcement. It is the part of the attitude that criminals deserve whatever they get. And then we don't care when criminals (and also some innocent people, as collateral damage) are abused by our system of justice, because they are just getting what they deserve. "Don't do the crime if you can't do the time (and also enjoy the rape)." It is an attitude that completely removes the lower limit of what we are willing to accept when it comes the the treatment of our criminals and prisoners. Also, yes, I would hope that charges are pressed against a person who savagely beats a person who stabbed his friend, if he goes beyond what is necessary to subdue a dangerous individual. That is pretty much the definition of revenge, not justice.
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Dec 18, 2010 06:47
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evilbastard posted:How long has this email been going around for ? It hasn't been 12 months, it was 14 years ago, in 1996 shortly after Martin Bryant purchased two automatic weapons from a licensed gun dealer and killed 35 people and wounded 21 in a coffee shop at the Port Arthur tourist spot. Yeah, I'm pretty sure the McDonalds massacre was in America. I'm neither for or against gun control, and Port Arthur happened when I was like 8, but the ban seems like a pretty kneejerk reactionary thing to have done. Bryant had a history of severe mental problems and violence, and we should have had better restrictions on the sale of firearms - i.e. don't let people buy them second hand out of a loving newspaper.
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Dec 18, 2010 08:14
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Grem posted:Marines are not law enforcement or the jail system, especially these Marines. Would you be the attorney who encourages your client to press charges against the guy who whipped his rear end after your client stabbed him? This is getting a little confusing doing this from my phone, I thought people here were saying that the marines went too far in detaining the guy based injuries They were saying that. But you said this: quote:I think you kind of lose your right to be unnecessarily brutalized when you try to kill someone That's a statement of principle that can be generalised from. You didn't say "I believe people should be able to use unncessary violence to brutalise you if you attack them", you said you flat out lose the right to not be unncessarily brutalized. If you did roughly mean that you believe people should be able to use unncessary violence if attacked then I've got to ask you, how can you defend unnecessary violence? Also, a guy pressing charges because he got beaten to the point where the violence was no longer necessary for self-defense and beyond is pressing charges on the exact same grounds as the guy pressing charges because he got stabbed. If you believe in the underlying principle here, it's hard to argue the one should press charges while the other shouldn't.
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Dec 18, 2010 10:10
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Orange Devil posted:They were saying that. But you said this: Okay, I'll give you that, I misspoke and made a very general statement. If someone tries to kill you and the most they get out of the retaliation is a few broken ribs and lacerations, then I'd say you did a good job at detaining him. The guy uses deadly force, if a law enforcement officer is attacked with deadly force then they attack back with deadly force. A man on the street gets attacked with deadly force and the attacker gets roughed up a little extra? Too bad, be lucky it's not a cop. A cop shouldn't be using excessive force because they're trained law enforcement officers. A man on the street getting stabbed and going overboard with his hands is a big more forgivable, within limits (which broken ribs and lacerations are within) in my opinion. I'm finally home from work and admittedly now I see that the bolded part was untrue so we're talking in pure hypotheticals, and my hypothetical may be different from yours. For instance, in my hypothetical the attacker received the injuries while being detained. In yours, maybe they had already detained him, two guys held him down, and two kicked him. So, in closing, sorry for not reading closer, and for not being more clear in what I meant in my previous two statements.
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Dec 18, 2010 14:14
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If you try to stab me to death and I beat you to death, you deserved it. It shouldn't be legal or encouraged but you still deserved it. That's why that fake scenario is hilarious.
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Dec 18, 2010 17:11
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JGTheSpy posted:If you try to stab me to death and I beat you to death, you deserved it. It shouldn't be legal or encouraged but you still deserved it. That's why that fake scenario is hilarious. There is nothing funny about someone being stabbed, or severely beaten. Grem posted:So, in closing, sorry for not reading closer, and for not being more clear in what I meant in my previous two statements. Yes it's important to remember whats disgusting about that e-mail is that someones fantasy involves a few marines savagely beating a man needlessly. In real life the Marines did exactly what they should have, used a necessary amount of force to disarm and detain that man. Had the real Marines had to injure him in the course of that disarmament and detention I imagine, myself and a slew of other posters wouldn't be upset. Had a marine for example, broken a rib while tackling him, well it was an appropriate level of force for the situation at hand. Had they injured him in self defense, for example breaking the hand he was holding the knife in, also completely acceptable. Luckily though in this case, the Marines needed very little force. It gets really disgusting when some twisted little poo poo needs to add a fantasy where after subduing the shoplifter the marines look at each other nod knowingly and proceed to beat him savagely because its what "he deserves" and then winking at the arriving police as they say he "fell down some stairs" Ciprian Maricon fucked around with this message at 18:07 on Dec 18, 2010 |
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Dec 18, 2010 17:56
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Coitus_Interruptus posted:There is nothing funny about someone being stabbed, or severely beaten. I disagree. I am pleased and amused by the though of a person who commits random acts of violence becoming a victim of retaliatory violence.
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Dec 18, 2010 18:45
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JGTheSpy posted:I disagree. I am pleased and amused by the though of a person who commits random acts of violence becoming a victim of retaliatory violence. So would it also be funny if those Marines are later blown up in Iraq by a suicide bomber who was motivated to retaliatory violence the by the random acts of violence the U.S. Military commits in Iraq? Of course not. You only find it amusing in this instance in the same way that people find sex offenders being raped and killed in prison fitting and amusing, because like much of the public you equate vengeance with justice.
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Dec 18, 2010 20:57
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Marines don't make a decision to go kill people in Iraq. They just do what they're told. Our military wouldn't function if the infantry were allowed to make decisions for themselves. I don't support prison rape/murder either. I do think immediate retaliatory violence is sexy though. It's really the only violence I don't hate because guilt isn't in question and the recipient deserves it. I don't think it should be legal or encouraged because less noble people would take advantage but I sure do love it when it happens the right way.
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Dec 18, 2010 23:01
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JGTheSpy posted:Marines don't make a decision to go kill people in Iraq. There are still limits and expectations of their behavior, following orders is not a get out of jail free card. What if a Marine shoots an unarmed, non-threatening civilian at a check point and then is killed for it in retaliation. Is that still funny to you? Still amusing? Do you find that sexy? JGTheSpy posted:I do think immediate retaliatory violence is sexy though. It's really the only violence I don't hate because guilt isn't in question and the recipient deserves it. There is no level of guilt that makes it OK for you to be beaten, or raped, or murdered in response. I think the fact that you described retaliatory violence as sexy though does far more to underline how reprehensible your position is than I ever could.
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Dec 18, 2010 23:24
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JGTheSpy you are a creepy motherfucker.
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Dec 19, 2010 03:18
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JGTheSpy posted:If you try to stab me to death and I beat you to death, you deserved it. It shouldn't be legal or encouraged but you still deserved it. That's why that fake scenario is hilarious.  Get over yourself. There's no excuse for vigilantism excepting that it is directed against the upper class capitalist oppressors. Find me an email where a Wall St. CEO gets his bones broken by a Marine and I'll laugh with you, but as it is what you're supporting is sick.
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Dec 19, 2010 03:59
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How are u posted:
I should probably type one up myself. I dream it every night.
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Dec 19, 2010 05:25
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How are u posted:
Careful I dont think this is a direction we want to take things either. There's a difference between revenge and justice and wet dreams about overthrowing the higher class in unnecessarily brutal ways are just as creepy. RagnarokAngel fucked around with this message at 08:01 on Dec 19, 2010 |
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Dec 19, 2010 07:56
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RagnarokAngel posted:Careful I dont think this is a direction we want to take things either. There's a difference between revenge and justice and wet dreams about overthrowing the higher class in unnecessarily brutal ways are just as creepy. Exactly what I was going to say. Its something really important, that seems to fly against our instincts, but vengeance is not justice under any circumstances.
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Dec 19, 2010 09:02
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How are u posted:
Another thing to be careful of too is that a scenario like that "totally excludes agitational and organisational[sic] work among the masses." But I completely understand your rage. Check this out: Trotsky, "The Bankruptcy of Individual Terrorism" (1909) http://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky/1909/xx/tia09.htm
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Dec 19, 2010 15:51
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Coitus_Interruptus posted:Exactly what I was going to say. Its something really important, that seems to fly against our instincts, but vengeance is not justice under any circumstances. 
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Dec 19, 2010 17:10
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PerniciousKnid posted:I don't care; writing fiction stories about Joe Biden raping Bank of America's CEO makes me feel better. Your underclass hero is Joe Biden? Mine is the underclassiest of the underclassiest! With their grunge clothing and their dirtiness and their powerful UNNHHHHHH Seriously though, let's get the gently caress away from masturbating over people getting brutalized and back on topic, other people's crazy political views. quote:MUSLIMS ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE DEATHS OF MORE THAN 270 MILLION NON-MUSLIMS WORLDWIDE Boy do I love lopsided statistics and false comparisons.
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Dec 19, 2010 18:39
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How many have Christians killed?
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Dec 19, 2010 19:58
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RagnarokAngel posted:How many have Christians killed? None because the killers weren't true Christians vv - Yeah but that is self-defense, so its the Muslim's fault again. Harald fucked around with this message at 20:02 on Dec 19, 2010 |
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Dec 19, 2010 19:59
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I dunno man American Evangelicals seem big on soldiers.
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Dec 19, 2010 20:01
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RagnarokAngel posted:In which case they could have restrained him. If theres 4 guys versus one, nevermind trained marines, they could have restrained him without too much injury. I'm a fat neckbearded goon and I was attacked by a guy with a knife in late November (was posted in TCC). My sister was working at our families store and a guy came in to rob the place and started beating the crap out of our cash register and threatening my little sis with a knife. I ran out of the backroom and tackled him to the ground and pinned him and restrained him till the cops showed up and suffered a stab wound to my hand and lacerations to my arms and head. Almost every single person I've talked to has commented how I should have beat the poo poo out of the guy or broken his bones or something and I just go "uh huh" and dismiss them as the fucksticks they are. My sole concern was my safety which was secured by pinning him and not letting him go. I was not thinking of beating him to a pulp or breaking his arms or ribs. If I could do this in a a weakened state (recieved minor surgery 24 hours previously to the incident for my new found Glaucoma..) and had trouble getting solid food down and was still able to take the guy down then 4 marines very easily could have taken him down and restrained him without the violence. It was unneccesary brutality and I wouldnt wish it on anyone...including the crazed drug addict who stabbed me in November. The marines should be held to a higher standard then me for fucks sake, they are highly trained for those types of situations and its my opinion there was a lot of unneccesary violence directed towards the perpetrator. My .02 EDIT--- LoL well I read 2 more posts down and saw that someone made that bolded part up? I was confused and thought it was real, disregard I guess. Glorification of violence is still not cool! Someone stealing/stabbing their way around life is probably mentally ill to some degree whether its from drug addiction or mental abuse they've suffered. They need social programs designed to help them get back on their feet and taking care of themselves...not beatings and incarceration. Nosaj fucked around with this message at 20:16 on Dec 19, 2010 |
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Dec 19, 2010 20:12
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[David B. Barrett, Todd M. Johnson,World Christian Trends AD 30-AD 2200]. I'd be willing to bet most of these deaths were not done in the name of Islam. So you can pretty much lump in most european wars for death toll of Christians.
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Dec 19, 2010 20:19
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This guy's kinda a piece of poo poo.
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Dec 19, 2010 21:54
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Capsaicin posted:This guy's kinda a piece of poo poo. Report him to his chain of command for trying to undermine the DoD's anti-suicide program. I suppose he thinks religious discrimination is okay too, I mean, being Catholic is a choice, right? Y'know, now that I think about it, the whole "you're born black" argument is a crock too because it makes being black sound like an inborn disability, like being born blind, or with Downe's syndrome. It's not his fault he's a ******, he was born that way! Armyman25 fucked around with this message at 23:58 on Dec 19, 2010 |
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Dec 19, 2010 23:54
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Armyman25 posted:Report him to his chain of command for trying to undermine the DoD's anti-suicide program. I would if I knew him. He just commented on a friend's facebook post.
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Dec 20, 2010 00:04
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One of my facebook friends just went nuts. All of this is from the last day or two with no prior indications.
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Dec 20, 2010 00:47
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Dr. Arbitrary posted:One of my facebook friends just went nuts. Oh no, his mocking! A cunning tongue with a brilliant mind to match
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Dec 20, 2010 00:50
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Dr. Arbitrary posted:One of my facebook friends just went nuts. At least gold is up 400%. It makes a great investment! Just ask Glenn Beck!
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Dec 20, 2010 01:21
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Dr. Arbitrary posted:One of my facebook friends just went nuts. People who post things like this, and with that kind of frequency must be absolutely tortured inside. This guy wakes up, and his first thoughts of the day are something to the effect of "loving LIBERALS!", and that thought just sort of lingers around for the rest of the day, sloshing around in varied degrees of conscious thought. After work, then Hannity, it's bedtime, with the parting thought of the day being "loving LIBERALS!", and the cycle continues. I have a couple of FB friends who are exactly like this guy, and my attitude towards them has gone from disgust and anger to plain old schadenfreude. I mean, what kind of empty loving hole in them does this kind of malice live in? This guy has a list of people to mock in the coming year of all things...how absolutely pathetic.
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Dec 20, 2010 01:38
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tek79 posted:People who post things like this, and with that kind of frequency must be absolutely tortured inside. This guy wakes up, and his first thoughts of the day are something to the effect of "loving LIBERALS!", and that thought just sort of lingers around for the rest of the day, sloshing around in varied degrees of conscious thought. After work, then Hannity, it's bedtime, with the parting thought of the day being "loving LIBERALS!", and the cycle continues. I have a couple of FB friends who are exactly like this guy, and my attitude towards them has gone from disgust and anger to plain old schadenfreude. I mean, what kind of empty loving hole in them does this kind of malice live in? This guy has a list of people to mock in the coming year of all things...how absolutely pathetic. "[dur] is just an angry little man who is anal as hell about anything and everything. The fact that he is a flaming lib makes it all that much better. Enough is enough little man, take your square lib glasses and naive opinions and go away. No one will miss you." I haven't even talked to the dude in over a year, too. I think that makes it even more sad.
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