|
OperaMouse posted:I have some questions about communication. e:There was no post covering this type of stuff in the OP, but I swear jeffersonlives or some other poster made a post about this type of stuff, but if I'm wrong I can append this or make a new post with some pictures and examples from that awesome list of playbooks that was just posted a few days ago. This is dependent on the coaches and their system, and what the gameplan is for the particular week, but some basic things will be true of all teams. I also thought there was a basic offensive plays/pre-snap scheme post in the OP or already in the thread, but I'll try to give a brief answer and I can elaborate on this if I'm mistaken and there is no other similar post. There are not a very large number of unique run plays. Each team will have their zone, sweep, toss, draw, trap, power, iso plays in the running game, there will be slight differences in blocking scheme and how the running backs are coached on technique but these are small details. These plays can be run to different holes by different players, and the play call will include a phrase, number or letter that signifies this. Passing plays are typically grouped by the protection scheme and how many steps the QB will take in his drop. There are only a handful of routes (there should be a passing tree edited in the OP) and while there are certainly a lot of possible route combinations with 5 receivers, there are only so many plays you could diagram out before it would start becoming redundant. By redundant I mean you could diagram a play in 10 different formations that uses some slight variation in routes but is designed to accomplish the same purpose. The reason it might seem like there are thousands of plays per playbook is because of all the modifiers which are applied to the base play. If you take into account all the formations, all the shifts, motions, protections etc which are appended to the base play, there are thousands of variations you could run, but they're never drawn up in the playbook this way. You simply know the 15 different calls for shifts, and the 20 motion calls, and the formation calls, and you just process each bit of information as the play is called. In the huddle, the QB will give the play, which includes the formation, any shifts or motions that will be applied, and the count of the snap. He might also indicate a secondary play if he chooses to audible at the line to another pre-selected play. At the line the QB/C will point out the MLB or the linebacker which the offense users to base their run blocking calls off of. The blocking scheme will most likely change depending on the alignment of the front 7 and the center needs to call this out. The other offensive lineman will make their own calls as necessary after receiving the mike/MLB designation from the center or QB. The guard and tackle might swap assignments in which case they'll make a TAG call. The QB then has to read the defensive coverage and taken into consideration with the alignment might choose to audible from run to pass or from pass to a more favorable pass etc. He'll give whatever the call for the audible is, and then call out the new play. After the final play is decided he has to go through his snap count. All offensive players have to know everything pertinent to them in the offensive playbook. The QB not only has to know every single play, but every single positions responsibility on every one of those plays. The offensive linemen obviously don't have to know any of the routes the receivers run on pass plays, all they need to worry about is the protection scheme. As a TE I don't have to know what the halfbacks steps are for the handoff on sweep I only need to know my blocking assignment, unless I play in a system where the TE might be motioned into the backfield as a ball carrier. In some systems only the QB and WR's might need to know the hand signals and the QB will call it out to the team, in other systems every player might need to know the signals, and their might be different signals for the skill players and the line. Same goes for defense, only the backer calling the play might need to know, or every player might need to know. By way of example/anecdote, I played in a no huddle spread system that operated almost exclusively with hand signals. There were roughly 80 unique plays total, so 80 hand signals for the actual play. Then there were signals for formations, and additional signals for the offensive line on some plays. All in all I'd estimate there was around 100-110 unique gestures that everyone had to know. Each play had a name and a hand signal that attempted to be evocative of the name, although there were some unintuitive overlaps you had to adjust to. All the plays names also followed a theme, so running plays were named after the cities of NFL teams. Play-action was named after the nicknames of D-1 universities, so Miami was a play-action with the outside receivers running off their men and the TE delaying and running a deep drag behind the backers. The hand signal for Miami was self strangling (or the motion you make when you're choking.) Audibles and play call phrases don't change as much as you usually have multiple ways of saying the same thing, so you can constantly rotate usage so the defense doesn't get tipped off. For snap counts you can have White, Black, Yellow, which would be 1, 2, 3 respectively, and Wednesday, Friday, Sunday which are also 1, 2, 3. You could have a hot route designation for the Y receiver be a car maker 1 week (Honda, Nissan, Chevy) and the next time you play that opponent a species of cat (Lion, Tiger.) McKracken fucked around with this message at 21:03 on Dec 15, 2010 |
#
?
Dec 15, 2010 21:00
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 14, 2024 08:36 |
|
|
Stupid question: Is it possible to purchase the apparel made before the Super Bowl for the losing team? I remember seeing some TV story once upon a time showing a bunch of kids in Africa who must think the Buffalo Bills are the greatest NFL team ever since they were all running around wearing donated clothing. I kind of want to mock the hell out of a friend of mine who's insistent that the Rams should be awarded with an additional Super Bowl victory since the Patriots cheated. Are there vendors that sell this sort of thing?
|
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2010 21:12
|
|
|
FairGame posted:Stupid question: http://www.google.com/search?q=sine...9111c1d610a8252 Looks like your best shot is a pin, I don't really have any idea where you'd go about finding something like a shirt or hat.
|
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2010 21:20
|
|
|
Every once in a while they turn up in weird places. For example, my brother saw a bunch of Ohio State national champions shirts in a Salvation Army in Akron once.
|
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2010 22:35
|
|
|
Has an NFL overtime game ever been won by a safety?
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2010 20:46
|
|
|
Roflsaurus Wrecks posted:Has an NFL overtime game ever been won by a safety? I believe one was won on a safety as a result of a blocked punt. Edit: Another one in 2004 on a fumble-induced safety: http://espn.go.com/nfl/recap?gameId=241114010 quote:Bears only second team to win on OT safety tk fucked around with this message at 21:06 on Dec 17, 2010 |
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2010 21:03
|
|
|
.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2010 19:00
|
|
|
What exactly is the benefit of the Giants' "bunch of guys behind the kicker" style of kickoffs? Just an attempt to confuse the return team?
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2010 22:40
|
|
|
Quiet Feet posted:What exactly is the benefit of the Giants' "bunch of guys behind the kicker" style of kickoffs? Just an attempt to confuse the return team? Most kickoff return teams are man blocking schemes, especially with the wedge restrictions, so it makes identifying and picking up the right guy a bit tougher.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2010 22:42
|
|
|
Can someone explain how the hash marks work? How its decided where the ball gets placed for the next snap/field goals/ why the difference between high school/college/pro?
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2010 00:07
|
|
|
Crunkjuice posted:Can someone explain how the hash marks work? How its decided where the ball gets placed for the next snap/field goals/ why the difference between high school/college/pro? When the ball is down outside the hash marks, it is moved in to the nearest one. When it's between the hashes, it's left where it is. The NFL has the hash marks closer together to make field goal kicking easier - they are 18' 6" apart, lined up with the goal posts. In college, the hash marks are 40 feet apart. Don't really know why they settled on that. Edit: Useful Wiki info quote:
Deteriorata fucked around with this message at 00:22 on Dec 21, 2010 |
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2010 00:12
|
|
|
And in high school the hash marks are the widest and split the field into thirds.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2010 00:26
|
|
|
drunk leprechaun posted:And in high school the hash marks are the widest and split the field into thirds.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2010 01:06
|
|
|
Incoherence posted:Can't find a reference to it; might depend on the state. I know Texas high schools use NCAA rules and (as far as I remember) NCAA field markings. You are correct Texas and Massachusetts use NCAA rules and therefore their field markings since that is part of the rules. Every other state uses NFHS rules which are what people call high school rules.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2010 01:09
|
|
|
What sense does it make for collegiate-level football to have different rules from the NFL? After all the NFL, or at least professional football of some sort (does the UFL have the same rules as the NFL?), is the goal for most of these kids isnt it?
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2010 04:44
|
|
|
I think in part it's because the level of play is much lower in college. Some of the rules make the game easier - one foot in-bounds on a catch, clock stoppage after 1st downs - and make it more fun to watch/play. They evolved differently, and the rules have adapted to suit the players. That's my hypothesis, at least.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2010 04:48
|
|
|
Simply because they are two different organizations. There is no FIFA style group that oversees football in the US. The NCAA and NFL evolved separately and have their own identities. Also how dare you even think that the college football is a minor league for the NFL. They are scholar athletes who all play for the love of the game damnit!
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2010 05:02
|
|
|
The wider hash marks kinda help an outside running game. Which relates back to styles of play that don't work in the NFL because of the speed of the defense. If you're on the left hash, there's way more space on the right back in the days of the option. The NFL might as well be centering the ball every time and that is boring to me.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2010 05:40
|
|
|
drunk leprechaun posted:Simply because they are two different organizations. There is no FIFA style group that oversees football in the US. The NCAA and NFL evolved separately and have their own identities. Considering that about 2% of college players have careers in the NFL, it's doing a pretty lovely job of being a minor league for the NFL. The vast majority really are there for the education and love of the game.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2010 06:09
|
|
|
History time. The reason some people use the word "gridiron", especially when referring to the field, is that that's how fields were marked when the sport was first codified; it was divided into a grid of boxes, with lines running from goal line to goal line as well as sideline to sideline. Mr Wikipedia has an image of what that looked like at the dawn of the 20th century. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Football_Diagram_1904.jpg (MUCH, MUCH LATER EDIT: The sharp-eyed may notice that the field is 110 yards long, which stuck around for quite a while before 100+20 caught on.) And here is a rather nice picture of the old stadium at Syracuse, ready for a game.  The ball could be snapped from any point within any of the grids (except IIRC the incomplete ones nearest the sidelines, which made up the last 5 feet of the field before the sidelines). Now, as with many things, the reason we have hashmarks today is the NFL's fault. For the first 11 years of the NFL's life, the champion had been determined without a post-season, they were just the team with the best percentage record after the season was complete. However, in 1932, Chicago and Portsmouth Spartans finished tied for the top spot, and so the NFL specially authorised a Playoff Game to determine the champions, at Wrigley Field. However, by this time they were in the middle of winter, and the weather was so poor that the NFL took the unprecedented step of moving the game indoors to Chicago Stadium. Playing the game indoors required a number of rule changes for safety reasons; one of them was the abandonment of the north/south gridiron lines, replaced with the first hashmarks, which were 10 yards from the sidelines, in order to stop plays starting dangerously close to the sidelines and the stands just beyond them. The other lasting change from this game was that from 1933, the NFL returned the goalposts to the goal line to encourage field goal kicking (the NCAA had moved them to the end line for safety reasons and left them there). After the rulebooks split, NCAA adopted hashmarks but decided they'd prefer to encourage field goals by widening the posts from the standard 18ft 6in (used also by every other sport that has H posts) to 23ft 4in. So then the hashmarks began to narrow. NCAA settled for dividing the field into thirds, while the NFL doubled the distance from 10 yards infield to 20 yards infield to continue encouraging short field goals (angles for which were much more acute in the NFL because of the narrower goal posts and their position on the goal line). Finally, the NFL narrowed the hashes again in 1974 to the width of the goalposts because they still felt that short kicks were too difficult. NCAA stayed with dividing the field into thirds until they re-adopted the 18ft 6in goals (and banned kicking blocks) in the early 90s, and went to the NFL's old 40-foot hashes. However, by that time, NFHS had been setting their own rules for 50 years and they decided to keep 23ft 4in, kicking blocks, and dividing the field into thirds. Of course, about three years after narrowing the hashes to their current distance, the NFL moved the goalposts back onto the end line. Did they widen the hashes again to reflect that? Did they bollocks. As for why they continue to maintain their own rulebooks; the way to think about it is that the existence of Fed and NFL rules is down to modifying the NCAA book for a specific purpose. NFL rules are more complicated and are designed to encourage spectacle, and are based on the precept that you have the best of the best in every department and you need to have things that look good on TV; Fed rules are aimed at kids who may not be good at football, and are also kept simpler and more black-and-white than NCAA rules because a lot of their officials work multiple sports depending on the time of year and need things kept simple so they can keep them straight. Trin Tragula fucked around with this message at 13:17 on Feb 2, 2012 |
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2010 19:16
|
|
|
Couple random questions: what is the skill gap like between college football and the NFL? I would think that on any given day a very good college baseball team could beat a mediocre MLB team (though I could be wrong about that). But could Auburn beat the Panthers? And I know the NFL is way too conservative to do this, but has any college team ever believed so strongly in their ability to get two yards in one play that they go for two after almost every TD instead of just in desperate situations?
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2010 20:54
|
|
|
Roflsaurus Wrecks posted:Couple random questions: what is the skill gap like between college football and the NFL? I would think that on any given day a very good college baseball team could beat a mediocre MLB team (though I could be wrong about that). But could Auburn beat the Panthers? There is absolutely no way that the best college team could beat the worst NFL team. I don't watch college as much, but one of the starkest contrasts I see is just the sheer difference of speed and strength in the two games. Sure, a college team might have one or two players that are pro-ready, but the rest of the team would not be and the best players could be eliminated. For example, a guy like Ndamukong Suh could have challenged most NFL offensive linemen last year, but his fellow DL would be so overmatched by almost all NFL linemen that they could double/triple-team and negate Suh. I just couldn't see even the 2008 Lions losing to even the best college team.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2010 21:01
|
|
|
Roflsaurus Wrecks posted:I would think that on any given day a very good college baseball team could beat a mediocre MLB team (though I could be wrong about that). I'd think it may be possible in the NBA, though, since one player can dominate so thoroughly in that.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2010 21:05
|
|
|
Mind_Taker posted:There is absolutely no way that the best college team could beat the worst NFL team. I don't watch college as much, but one of the starkest contrasts I see is just the sheer difference of speed and strength in the two games. Sure, a college team might have one or two players that are pro-ready, but the rest of the team would not be and the best players could be eliminated. Yeah, I didn't consider that... just the fact that the NFL takes the cream of the crop in terms of size and speed raises the level of play drastically.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2010 21:15
|
|
|
Roflsaurus Wrecks posted:Couple random questions: what is the skill gap like between college football and the NFL? I would think that on any given day a very good college baseball team could beat a mediocre MLB team (though I could be wrong about that). But could Auburn beat the Panthers? The skill gap is quite large. Not quite as large as HS to NCAA, but enormous enough that even the worst pro team would never come close to losing to the best college teams. The speed of the NFL game is much faster (to say nothing of the complexities of offensive and defensive schemes in the pros compared to college.) There was a clip on hard knocks this year with Rex Ryan and Mike Westhoff evaluating a rookie LB from Alabama. They explicitly commented that the difference between the skill level in college and the NFL is so great that even the starting linebacker of a dominant college defense that won a national championship had really no chance of even making the Jets roster (granted the Jets have 2 very good starting inside backers.) I was lucky enough to have a few college teammates go on to the NFL. Now this was a 1AA school formerly in the CAA, so the average talent level is lower than of a BCS conference school but not by a whole lot, and the future pros were just absolutely dominating in all aspects (and none of them are even pro-bowl level players), even against guys who were all-conference players. So now take even the worst pro team, comprised of 53 guys who are at least that good, and probably better and you can see why even the best college team could never beat a bad pro team.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2010 21:32
|
|
|
A lot of the best and most athletic college players end up as career special teamers who play for 2-4 years off and on and end up being cut and replaced by the best and most athletic college players a year or two down the line.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2010 21:37
|
|
|
Kalli posted:A lot of the best and most athletic college players end up as career special teamers who play for 2-4 years off and on and end up being cut and replaced by the best and most athletic college players a year or two down the line. I think a lot of casual NFL fans (not really anyone in this forum) tend to forget that guys like Tony Gonzalez and Jason Taylor and Favre are remarkable outliers and most pro's (who were among the top 5-20 players in their position in all of college football) only manage a few years before they're replaced by the next crop as you described, whether it's because they were not good enough to be anything but a special teamer or they were a very average starter with flaws or holes in some aspect of their game and by the time they are 26-27 they are already outmatched physically by the 22 year old rookies.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2010 21:43
|
|
|
I read somewhere that the average NFL career is 3 years. There are a lot of guys who their entire NFL experience is being an undrafted rookie and going to a camp only to get cut.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2010 22:46
|
|
|
drunk leprechaun posted:I read somewhere that the average NFL career is 3 years. There are a lot of guys who their entire NFL experience is being an undrafted rookie and going to a camp only to get cut. Yeah, you can take 80 players to training camp. Of those, you end up with a 53 man roster (of which only 45 can be active on any gameday), and an 8 person practice squad. Considering injuries and such, you basically have 3-400 guys who careers essentially end every August, and about twice that that bounce around between practice squads, end up inactive on a roster or play in a handful of games or end up on IR with injuries real or imagined.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2010 22:50
|
|
|
On the topic of college vs pros, I was reading the Ray Guy wiki today and it mentions that they used to play an exhibition game of the superbowl champion against a team of college all stars. That'd be sweet to see, and such an event should replace the pro bowl.
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2010 00:32
|
|
|
loosenukes posted:On the topic of college vs pros, I was reading the Ray Guy wiki today and it mentions that they used to play an exhibition game of the superbowl champion against a team of college all stars. That'd be sweet to see, and such an event should replace the pro bowl. http://www.mmbolding.com/BSR/Chicago_Charities_College_All-Star_Game.htm The college All-stars were remarkably competitive through most of the years, although the last time they actually won was 1963. Amusing that the original intent of the game was to show that the fledgling NFL could play at as high of a level as the college boys.
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2010 00:59
|
|
|
Roflsaurus Wrecks posted:Couple random questions: what is the skill gap like between college football and the NFL? I would think that on any given day a very good college baseball team could beat a mediocre MLB team (though I could be wrong about that). But could Auburn beat the Panthers? Just look at Reggie Bush and Vince Young. Those guys were so dominant when they played they essentially ran all over the field and their teams ended up with like 90 combined points or whatever. They get to the NFL and Reggie Bush is an important but unspectacular part of his offense and VY is a decent quarterback at best with his running ability hardly standing out. This is a man that got anywhere on the field whenever he wanted in college. College linemen would get so manhandled that they wouldn't stand a chance. And if you can get 2 yards whenever you want for the 2 point you won't be needing the 2 points. Bashez fucked around with this message at 02:12 on Dec 22, 2010 |
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2010 01:19
|
|
|
I wonder how the 2001 Miami Hurricanes would have fared against a bad NFL team. That team was stuffed to the brim with NFL talent
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2010 04:00
|
|
|
SteelAngel2000 posted:I wonder how the 2001 Miami Hurricanes would have fared against a bad NFL team. That team was stuffed to the brim with NFL talent Was that a Ken Dorsey team? Because there's no way he's leading even the most talented college team of all time to a win against an 0-16 NFL squad. That was a pretty absurd roster for Miami though. The amount (and quality) of players drafted from 02-05 out of Miami is pretty unprecedented.
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2010 04:56
|
|
|
2001 has, I think, 25 players out an an 83-man roster who were drafted. And Ken Dorsey. Imagine if their quarterback didn't suck completely? 4 titles, at least
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2010 05:07
|
|
|
Blackula69 posted:2001 has, I think, 25 players out an an 83-man roster who were drafted. And Ken Dorsey. Frank Gore was their 3rd RB and Kick Returner. FRANK GORE
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2010 12:29
|
|
|
To be fair, Gore was a true freshman in 2001 It's ridiculous to think that a team had Clinton Portis, Willis McGahee, and Frank Gore as their RBs. You could hardly make a fantasy team like that
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2010 13:10
|
|
|
SteelAngel2000 posted:Frank Gore was their 3rd RB and Kick Returner. That team was completely ridiculous. The only team they didn't blow out/rear end-stomp was the Vick-led Hokies. I wish I'd been more into college football at the time. Their two safeties were Ed Reed and Sean Taylor. Their MLBs were Johnathan Vilma and DJ Williams. Their kick returned was Andre Johnson! Goddamn. Can you get season recaps on DVD or something? I'd love to see them whip some rear end. e: Not only did they have a ton of NFL players, most of them are still in the league. 2e: hahaha sorry, they stomped everyone except Virginia Tech and...the Brian St. Pierre-led Boston College! BSP 4 lyfe. Blackula69 fucked around with this message at 16:34 on Dec 22, 2010 |
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2010 16:31
|
|
|
Blackula69 posted:That team was completely ridiculous. The only team they didn't blow out/rear end-stomp was the Vick-led Hokies. I wish I'd been more into college football at the time.  I tried to find a roster for that time period on ESPN with no luck. Help me out?
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2010 19:55
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 14, 2024 08:36 |
|
|
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/college/rosters/2001/mmi/ Najeh Davenport, Willis McGahee, Ken Dorsey, Andre Johnson, Antrel Rolle, Ed Reed, Sean Taylor, Clinton Portis, Phillip Buchanan, Frank Gore, Jonathan Vilma, Vince Wilfork, Bryant McKinnie, Kellen Winslow, Roscoe Parrish, Jeremy Shockey, Jerome McDougle, and Kevin Everett. I'm sure I missed several, too. edit: They had 6 guys go in the first round of the draft. Someone please find a more stacked team than this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001_Miami_Hurricanes_football_team Oodles of Wootles fucked around with this message at 20:02 on Dec 22, 2010 |
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2010 20:00
|
|