|
Bad Munki posted:Someone sent me a link to a boingboing item which was itself just a youtube video. Here's that video (it's not the mortise and tenon thing). I dunno, seems nifty enough. It's really just an unpowered fixed-blade table saw. This would be perfect for people who live in apartment complexes or duplexes.
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2010 18:31
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 16, 2024 03:09 |
|
|
cbubbles posted:It's pretty neat - I'm thinking about buying the plans and playing around with it. Look, I'm just going to say I'm sorry in advance. I just can't let this go by without pointing to this. $70 more than your max, but so much more saw. You can do this. http://www.grizzly.com/products/17-2-HP-Bandsaw-Polar-Bear-Series/G0513P Edit: I'll loan you $35. ChaoticSeven fucked around with this message at 18:53 on Dec 20, 2010 |
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2010 18:51
|
|
And that's what brings me here - I'm not sure what to get.
|
Bad Munki posted:Someone sent me a link to a boingboing item which was itself just a youtube video. Here's that video (it's not the mortise and tenon thing). I dunno, seems nifty enough. It's really just an unpowered fixed-blade table saw. This is exactly the video I was thinking of while watching the Router Pantograph guy. The minute this video ended, I wanted to buy that thing, and build my whole shop around it. That is, until I saw the price. Fake edit: I watched this one too, and there's no doubt I have no need for squiggly loving wood but man did I NEED the tool that made it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eq8O3uUilM8 Real edit: gently caress I still want that tool. Why hasn't anyone made a DIY version yet?? Cobalt60 fucked around with this message at 19:41 on Dec 20, 2010 |
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2010 19:38
|
|
|
Will it magically turn me into a decent woodworker who can make projects as nice as yours? I'm sold. Seriously though, what exactly makes it more saw? What specs should I be focused on? From what I'm looking at: $499 - G0555 - Aluminum wheels, 1hp, 14" $719 - G0555x - Cast Iron Wheels, 1.5hp, 14"- looks like a resaw fence thrown in (saves ~100 bucks?) $792 - G0513p - Aluminum wheels, 2hp, 17" I understand Cast Iron is better when it comes to wheels, but I would imagine having more horsepower would make up for having aluminum wheels on the 0513p vs the 0555x. The resaw fence being thrown in makes the G0555x seem like a better bargain for me, though I think if I'm reading the specs right the G0513p has like, double the cutting depth? will the 6" be really constrictive? Any recommendations on resources to learn more about bandsaw/projects I can make once I actually have one. Since I've searched for bandsaws on amazon, recommendations for books have switched to bandsaw type books - The Bandsaw Book by Lonnie Bird came up and looks pretty good - wondering if anyone had recommendations.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2010 19:49
|
|
|
cbubbles posted:Will it magically turn me into a decent woodworker who can make projects as nice as yours? I'm sold. Seriously though, what exactly makes it more saw? What specs should I be focused on? The Lonnie Bird book is a good one. Also: http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=bandsaw+boxes&x=0&y=0 Mainly it's the cutting and throat capacity. 6 inches isn't too restrictive, and you can get a riser block kit to double that. It just depends on what you think you might do in the future. The table is also much bigger, and you can use larger blades with a steel frame saw and apply more tension to said blades. Thing is, you can never really know what you might want to do later. $75 bucks is cheap to double capacity. Beyond the 17" saws things get quite a bit more expensive so most people never upgrade beyond that.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2010 19:58
|
|
|
Oh yeah, the resaw fence. I have that on my 513x2 and it's ok. making one is dead simple though, just cut a piece of MDF, drill some holes in the stock fence, countersink some holes in the mdf and bolt it on.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2010 20:01
|
|
|
Bad Munki posted:Someone sent me a link to a boingboing item which was itself just a youtube video. Here's that video (it's not the mortise and tenon thing). I dunno, seems nifty enough. It's really just an unpowered fixed-blade table saw. Pretty neat...but not neat enough to drop a grand on, yikes
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2010 02:54
|
|
|
What's up with the saw blade? What is it about it that makes it cut so aggressively, yet cleanly and without a kerf? That's probably the most amazing part to me. Otherwise is just an extra-precise table saw mount with a hand saw blade.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2010 03:55
|
|
|
cbubbles posted:It's pretty neat - I'm thinking about buying the plans and playing around with it. Wait a month, save more money, buy this at a minimum: http://www.grizzly.com/products/17-Bandsaw-2-HP/G0513 You don't want a 14" bandsaw. You want 17"+ Trust me, you will want the capacity, and what most people with a 14" end up doing is adding accessories like riser blocks, etc, and they end up spending more than the higher capacity saw would have cost them in the first place. If you MUST have something now, find something used on craigslist, then sell it once you buy the bigger bandsaw. EDIT:(The one Chaotic recommended has aluminum wheels, which I'm not huge on, but I'd rather have alum wheels and 17" than iron wheels and 14") Basically I'm echoing everything Chaotic Seven said, you really really want the 17" or you will be buying another bandsaw in the future. A 17" saw is enough saw for almost any home/hobby woodworker. As far as bandsaw books: http://www.amazon.com/New-Complete-Guide-Band-Saw/dp/1565233182/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1292907827&sr=1-1 Mark Duginske is the man, his video is great too. GEMorris fucked around with this message at 06:07 on Dec 21, 2010 |
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2010 06:01
|
|
|
ChaoticSeven & GEMorris posted:BuncofInfo Thanks, my problem is I don't really know what I'd want to do after this. Though I have a sneaking suspicion after seeing those books, bandsaw boxes are in my future. Also the Mark Duginske book looks perfect - I'll probably be picking a copy up. The G0513 takes my 600 dollar budget and does dirty dirty things to it. I think it'll be beyond me. You words weren't lost on me though, I'll aim for the 17" over the 14" I'm looking at. The G0153P is what I'm probably going to get. I'm going to be splitting the cost with a friend I'm sharing the shop space with - we have some flex, but I think at the 900+ price point he'd prefer to ditch woodworking and spend that money on some other thing. I can already hear "900 bucks? That's a big chunk of a metal lathe" For the G0513/G0513P - what's the deal with having one RPM listed. Is the speed not adjustable? (Sorry if this is a really dumb question). And do they need a 220v plug? It says prewired so can it be wired for a 110v outlet [220v isn't a problem persay, this is more "I'm wondering"]
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2010 19:51
|
|
|
Wow, I just realized the G0513 I linked to has cast aluminum wheels as well. I don't know what they are doing to the Polar series to keep the costs down other than not using green paint and taking a smaller profit margin, but as far as I can see from the spec sheet, go with the G0513P. I'm not sure about the wiring, call them up and ask, I hear their phone support/sales is very helpful. The RPM is the motor RPM, lower it lists two blade speeds for the saw, which is about all you are going to get in a wood bandsaw. If you want more speeds, or a variable speed drive, you either A) get an upright metal bandsaw with a reeves drive or gearbox, or B) get a 3 phase bandsaw and drive it with a VFD. Note: you can cut aluminum just fine with a wood bandsaw on the slower setting with a 6tpi or higher blade. Its ferrous metals that you need the slower speeds for.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2010 20:57
|
|
|
cbubbles posted:Thanks, my problem is I don't really know what I'd want to do after this. Though I have a sneaking suspicion after seeing those books, bandsaw boxes are in my future. Also the Mark Duginske book looks perfect - I'll probably be picking a copy up. They don't come with plugs because it's hard to tell what style of outlet someone might have. I get mine from Lowes. About 6 bucks. Adjustable speed, you really don't have much call to adjust the speed on a woodcutting bandsaw. Like GE said, you can cut aluminum and other nonferrous metals on it fine. I try not to, since I've had trouble with metal dust getting embedded in the wood grain which looks quite poo poo. Edit: Got a really nice blank in the other day. Love the spalted maple. 
ChaoticSeven fucked around with this message at 23:19 on Dec 21, 2010 |
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2010 22:45
|
|
|
Picked up a Makita 12" SCMS today for $200! Missing outfeed supports, dust bag (swapped one from my old Makita) and workpiece clamp (will probably fab one) and has a worn out blade but all in all still a steal in my book 
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2010 03:33
|
|
|
ChaoticSeven posted:I have dreams of making a chess table, with one of the sets of peices being spalted maple. Love that stuff. This month was the month of free/cheap tools. Picked up two Porter Cable 423MAG Circular saws for free from a contractor friend, they both have minor injuries but I should be able to make one great saw out of it. And after caving and going antiquing with my girlfriend I picked up a complete Stanley #7 for $5. It needs a little cleaning but should work great. 
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2010 15:39
|
|
|
Carta posted:That plane is a loving steal. Do it justice and clean it up real nice for me, will ya?
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2010 18:08
|
|
|
Quick & dirty Christmas project: I had a slice of burled maple and a friend who desperately needs a new cutting board, so I turned the former into the latter using my hackerspace's bandsaw and belt sander. Then I varnished the bark and rubbed in some mineral oil. Bottom:  Top: 
|
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2010 06:24
|
|
|
Jackpot! Wife got me: http://www.canadiantire.ca/browse/product_detail.jsp?PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=845524443294345&bmUID=1293131509746 which has amazing reviews by all the woodworkers I know and is a really good price. and http://www.busybeetools.com/products/R%7B47%7DBIT-ASSORTED-BIT-SET-12PC-1%7B47%7D2IN.-SHANK.html Which are Craftex's new line of Router Bits along the same line of Freud bits. C4 Carbide, auto grade paint, etc. Pretty excited to mount it up into my table and get to some profilin! Oh she also got me: http://www.canadiantire.ca/AST/brow...252BGrinder.jsp but I'm not quite sure how I can sharpen my turning tools without a proper tool rest, I may need to rig something up.
|
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2010 20:13
|
|
|
I recently bought new tools after having to sell my old tools this past summer. I've been living in an apartment for a few years and just recently got a house with a garage so I can try to make some stuff again. Other than a couple of workbenches this is my first project in 5 years.  Merry Christmas Mom!
|
|
#
?
Dec 25, 2010 08:49
|
|
|
Wow that's very pretty. Hope she likes it. What is it, solid mahogany?
|
|
#
?
Dec 25, 2010 16:58
|
|
|
I wish, just Poplar.
|
|
#
?
Dec 25, 2010 18:27
|
|
|
Crappy cellphone pic, but this is what I got myself for christmas. http://twitpic.com/3jbbnq
|
|
#
?
Dec 25, 2010 18:37
|
|
|
My girlfriend got me this for Xmas: http://www.amazon.com/Porter-Cable-690LR-Amp-Fixed-Base-Router/dp/B00005QEVQ Now - It's time to build the workbench from FineWoodworking
|
|
#
?
Dec 25, 2010 21:05
|
|
|
Christmas loot from all my stops of the day.. I think people have caught on that I am getting more into hand tools. Zem hearing protection Lee Valley cabinetmakers tape Veritas Dovetail markers Honing guide Stanley Spokeshave Stanley low angle block Dozuki saw Old rear end Stanley #5 Irwin Marples chisel set All I need is a portable bench of some sort for planing and cutting (I'm thinking a Black and Decker workmate ) and I can start building again. First thing will be a small toolbox to hold all this stuff I just got.
|
|
#
?
Dec 26, 2010 01:35
|
|
|
So, I'm setting some goals for myself. My girlfriend thinks there a little lofty given my experience and skill level, but if you don't shoot high your setting yourself up for failure. Since I don't have a bench I'm planning on building one from FineWoodworking's newbie videos - PDF here: http://images.taunton.com/downloads/GSIW_workbench.pdf After that, I'm planning to build a couple nightstands emulating these from Pottery Barn: http://www.potterybarn.com/products/stratton-bedside-table/?pkey=cbedside-tables For the nightstands I'm planning to use Beech and painting them white, just like the PB ones I'd love to hear any comments, suggestions, etc on any of the above. Merry Xmas
|
|
#
?
Dec 26, 2010 05:32
|
|
|
WildFoxMedia posted:
Others will likely say it is fine, but I hate that workbench you listed. My recommendation is always start with 'Workbenches' by Christopher Schwarz, and read it, so you will realize what you actually need out of a workbench. Then build the best bench you can for your skill level. Again I'm sure some folks here will disagree with me, but never build anything other than walls out of 2x4s and 4x4s, they are the two crappiest types of wood to come out of a lumber mill. Better to get 2x12s and rip them down, but you have to have a tool to do that. A big help, if you want advice, it to give us an idea of what tools you currently own or have access to. Also: you do realize this path is not going to save you any money, right? If you just want some nightstands, then buy the nightstands. Just want to make sure we are on the same page.
|
|
#
?
Dec 26, 2010 05:43
|
|
|
At risk of sounding like a complete jerk, GEMorris seems like some kind of workshop snob. I get what he's saying, but a workbench is the sort of project you should knock out in 2 hours on a lazy Sunday, especially if you don't even have a workbench yet. Your first and only workbench doesn't need to be a masterful example of fine carpentry. Those plans you linked are entirely reasonable as a starting point, although I'd add some bracing and obviously adjust the dimensions to fit whatever area it was going in. Also, 34" is ridiculously low unless you are quite short. I don't enjoy hunching over things for long periods.
|
|
#
?
Dec 26, 2010 06:19
|
|
|
sixide posted:Also, 34" is ridiculously low unless you are quite short. I don't enjoy hunching over things for long periods. Totally depends on what you're doing on the bench. Working with primarily hand tools, 34" is probably a decent height for most. Totally depends on the user and the uses though Those bench plans are needlessly complex for someone like me though but I'm a cheapskate who likes using reclaimed materials and making things as easy/simple as possible dwoloz fucked around with this message at 07:28 on Dec 26, 2010 |
|
#
?
Dec 26, 2010 07:21
|
|
|
GEMorris - I do realize that it's not going to save me any money, It's about building things, seeing them come together and knowing that I built something that I'm getting use out of which is what I assume the same page is. I've read through this thread and seen your stance on 2x4 but unless I missed something, doesn't ripping 2x12s specifically require a tablesaw, or at the very last a bandsaw? I guess that plays into "What tools you own or have access to" The tools I have: Porter Cable 690LR Router with Fixed Base Hitachi C10FCE2 10-Inch Compound Miter Saw Skil 7500 3" x 18" Belt Sander Ryobi CSB133L 7 1/4" Circular Saw Skil 4495 Jigsaw ~36" Metal Contractors Level Stanley Miter Saw & Plastic Miter Box Stanley FatMax Backsaw Combination Square Kreg Pocket Jig Various Clamps Other poo poo... Many of these tools were purchased to facilitate the building of a fish tank stand that ultimately turned out to be.... ill-planned. Sixide - Yea, I was worried about the height and expected to make it taller considering im 6'3"...
|
|
#
?
Dec 26, 2010 07:29
|
|
|
sixide posted:At risk of sounding like a complete jerk, GEMorris seems like some kind of workshop snob. I get what he's saying, but a workbench is the sort of project you should knock out in 2 hours on a lazy Sunday, especially if you don't even have a workbench yet. Your first and only workbench doesn't need to be a masterful example of fine carpentry. The workbench is the most critical tool in the woodworkers arsenal, it should be given a bit more consideration than "2 hours on a lazy Sunday." I said absolutely nothing about "masterful example of fine carpentry" and I think making visually "perfect" workbenches is a silly waste of time. What I did suggest was that WildFoxMedia should spend some time learning exactly what jobs a bench is supposed to do, so that he could better understand how well any plans he considered using would do those jobs. I'm sorry if suggesting that someone learn from the well presented research of experts makes me a "snob". Perhaps I should suggest that he build the bench in the dark using only nails and a hammer, so that he doesn't run the risk of having some sort of "snob" bench. sixide posted:Those plans you linked are entirely reasonable as a starting point, although I'd add some bracing and obviously adjust the dimensions to fit whatever area it was going in. Also, 34" is ridiculously low unless you are quite short. I don't enjoy hunching over things for long periods. Actually 34" is high for a woodworking bench, for me at least and I'm 5'11". Of course it is high for a "hand tool" woodworking bench; power tool benches needn't be more than a solid core door on any sort of readily available base, and I have encouraged the building of such with said materials previously in this thread. The result is more an assembly table than a "woodworking bench" (oh dear I fear that may have been "snobby"). But do try handplaning a board on a 36"+ high workbench, unless you are 6'4"+ you are going to get tired quickly due to pushing the plane with your shoulders instead of your entire upper body. poo poo, is ergonomic data "snobby" as well? Next time I'll just pat him on the back and let him waste his time and materials making a bench he will grow to hate as he learns more about woodworking, rather than suggest that he at least aim his efforts in a general "right direction" before starting. WildFoxMedia posted:
Yes, ripping 2x12's would need a table saw or band saw if it wasn't going to involve unnecessary danger or risk. However, given your existing toolset I see no reason why you couldn't quickly and easily build the english workbench from Schwarz's book. Unless you plan on adding a jointer and planer to your arsenal, a "proper", even "snobby" hand tool woodworking bench is going to be a necessity in my mind, as you will be planing and jointing boards by hand.
|
|
#
?
Dec 26, 2010 09:02
|
|
|
You make posts about "how to do it right" quite often, which prompted the snob comment. I don't think you're wrong about workbenches or anything else, really, but you seem to be advising a level of rigor that's far past necessary for a hobbyist who doesn't even have a workbench yet. WildFoxMedia can make his own choices, so I'll apologize and be done with it. Sorry. Also maybe I have some unfortunate body type, but I'd need back surgery after a few hours using hand tools on a bench that stops a few inches below my crotch. The difference between a 6'4" person and an average 5'11" person isn't that drastic when it comes to the level of their waist. You could grab a plane or whatever you think your most physical tool is and find the height you like to work at. For me it'd probably be in the 42-44" range.
|
|
#
?
Dec 26, 2010 10:42
|
|
|
sixide posted:WildFoxMedia can make his own choices He asked for advice, I gave mine. I feel one element that makes people give up newly adopted hobbies is when they do something, and then immediately feel the need to do it over because of what they learn from the process. That's a normal learning process, yes, but a bit of reading can generally save one from the first four or five iterations of this. I don't think that "reading" is an unnecessary level of rigor. sixide posted:You could grab a plane or whatever you think your most physical tool is and find the height you like to work at. For me it'd probably be in the 42-44" range. Honest question, and I'm not being snippy or snide, but how often/much/ever have you used a hand plane?
|
|
#
?
Dec 26, 2010 18:14
|
|
|
GEMorris posted:Honest question, and I'm not being snippy or snide, but how often/much/ever have you used a hand plane? It's been since I was a kid. I have to compare the motion to other things like sanding blocks and hand saws to estimate what height I'd prefer to use it at. I was just mentioning it for consistency with your example. The bench I currently use is 40" and it's too low, although not painfully so. As I said, I might have an unfortunate body type. It's ~38" to my wrists, ~46" to the top of my hipbones, and ~48" to my elbows. I would be very unhappy with a 34" bench, which is why I suggest altering the height to something comfortable if necessary. I have lots of experience with uncomfortable working heights. sixide fucked around with this message at 22:21 on Dec 26, 2010 |
|
#
?
Dec 26, 2010 22:16
|
|
|
It's not a bad thing to slap together a quick 50 dollar plywood bench just to have a usable work platform, you can use it later for whatever. If you're shooting for an honest to God woodworking bench, then you should probably just make a quickie and spend a few weeks/months looking into building a real one. It's why I haven't built one yet. Edit: Sanding requires much less effort than pushing a plane, it's a totally different thing. You want a lower bench for planes so you can put your weight into it. The old school guys weren't dumb.   
ChaoticSeven fucked around with this message at 22:24 on Dec 26, 2010 |
|
#
?
Dec 26, 2010 22:21
|
|
|
 My old Craftsman table saw quit on me today. It now refuses to start the blade spinning. The motor hums and acts like its stuck; if the switch is left on, more and more power is pulled until the circuit breaker pops. I can spin the motor by hand and it feels fine. Any ideas? Needs a new capacitor? dwoloz fucked around with this message at 02:28 on Dec 27, 2010 |
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2010 02:13
|
|
|
dwoloz posted:I can spin the motor by hand and it feels fine. Any ideas? Needs a new capacitor? If the bearing feels alright, definitely check the capacitor first. Otherwise maybe the motor coils have become damaged somehow, and then it's easiest to replace the motor.
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2010 04:05
|
|
|
Not only is it drawing way too much current and tripping the breaker, its probably getting super hot as well. If you turn it on anymore to troubleshoot, be alert for any smoke. It could be a simple matter of the relay being messed up, there's often a relay that works on a centrifugal clutch; when you start the motor, a special winding or coil in the stator (the stator of a motor is the part that's static - doesn't spin. its antonym is the rotor. guess what that does?  ) so when the motor's at a dead stop, a special winding gets energized, and its purpose is to start the motor, just give it a nudge really. The way a simple AC motor works, the polarization of the magnets is changing at 60 times a second. That's because a common household circuit alternates at 60 hz. But the magnet/coil setup of the AC motor is not necessarily optimized for working if the rotor is actually already moving. That's what the starter winding is for. Now we know, because you can hear humming and the breaker is getting tripped, that current is flowing. This tells us there isn't an open circuit. Incidentally, you know what makes that humming noise? Its the coils oscillating at exactly 60 hz, exactly like how they do in a speaker. So, here's a list of potential causes: 1. Starter relay/centrifugal clutch fuzzed up/starter coil shorting out 2. Short circuit somewhere in the rest of the coil 3. Eh, was hoping we wouldn't get this far Potential solutions: 1. Open up the motor housing. Look around, see if the rotor is rubbing up against/contacting the coils anywhere (this was my first instinct, but you said that you can freely turn the motor, which is important, and eliminates this as the cause most likely) 2. Once the housing is open and there's no immediate friction/charring/otherwise abnormal appearance, you can probably open the plastic shield with the relay in it. The centrifugal clutch looks like a wacko metal claw or eagle's talon (if you have an imagination i guess). Its spring loaded. As the motor spins faster, the claw opens up, overcoming the force of the spring wanting to keep it closed. When the claw finally opens up at higher rpm's, it triggers the relay and cuts off current to the starter winding. Look at this assembly, and inside the relay, and look for charring, melting, warping, effing upping, etc. 3. If all this looks cool, I guess we gotta bite the bullet and get a new motor. First see if u can get a new one from Sears, it might be a long shot, but who knows, craftsman's a respectable brand. If not, it should be easy to find a motor that would work, even with a little retro-loving.... er, retrofitting.
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2010 02:05
|
|
|
Very helpful, thank you I'll crack her open when I get a chance. Could be sawdust just gumming up the works inside there (not allowing the centrifugal clutch to engage...or something)
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2010 06:59
|
|
|
What's the best way to acquire wooden dowel pins that are 5/16" x 7/8"? I have a bunch of 5/16" stock that I had for some reason or another, but cutting and champhering the edges is tedious and inaccurate. All of the "standard" sizes for fluted or spiral dowels are 1 1/2" or 2", which means I'd still have to trim. I guess for now I'll just start cutting and sanding... I only need something like 200-300 for my project!
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2010 07:13
|
|
|
Err... they sell those, don't they? Is that an abnormal size or something?
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2010 07:33
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 16, 2024 03:09 |
|
|
I have a 17'x17' detached garage that had no door and was only studs and exterior siding. There were a few gaps in the walls and it was impossible to heat the space. I've put in a garage door and yesterday I put up 3/8" pine plywood with the exterior side painted with Killz 2. I had intended to paint the inside white, too, but the bare wood is looking pretty shoppy right now. I'm wondering if you guys have any recommendations for sealing it. I only really need it to last 5-7 years, I'm in Louisiana, and I didn't insulate the backside because money is tight and my studs are on 24" centers. Is this a job for polyurethane? Or Thompson's water seal? Or some stuff I've never heard of? edit: Photos!  Click here for the full 800x598 image. This is where I was on Thursday.  Click here for the full 598x800 image. These are the excellent holes in my walls.  Click here for the full 800x598 image. This is where I am now. I have a shitton of shelving to do, but I know I should seal this thing up with something before I go any further. iwannabebobdylan fucked around with this message at 21:40 on Dec 28, 2010 |
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2010 12:37
|
|