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Well, I finally moved beyond blowing holes in sheetmetal with the little shitbox. The final job took about six passes to fill in the holes, and there were a couple of grind-it-out-and-start-overs, but I welded 1/4" plate with 1/16" 6013 rods. I have a box of 3/32" 6011, but have problems keeping the arc going with them even at the 70A setting, can't even get them to start an arc at 50A (the 1/16" burns just fine at 70A, goes out easily at 50A; I admit my technique is poo poo, but the machine seems a bit weaker than advertised). I promise I'll actually teach myself to weld later, but I had this week off and grandiose ideas for Christmas presents, so I cut a few corners in the learning process. Now I've got my sculpture made of pieces of old leaf spring that sat out in the weather for ten years after it was removed from the car. It has a really nice patina, except where I was grinding on the welds. Is there an easy way to quick-rust the shiny bits? (If not, no biggie, I'll just shine up the whole thing with a flap wheel and let the process start over.)
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Dec 25, 2010 03:10
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Bad Angus! Bad!
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I have a question about welders and duty cycles. I gained most of my welding knowledge in theatrical scene shops. Most scenic carpenters/fabricators have never had any formal training in anything, just picking up knowledge from other people they work with. As such, I was shocked as hell when I first heard of this "duty cycle" business. I have welded for hours with a little Lincoln/Miller flux-core 110v box, only stopping to move the work piece or myself. I have never noticed a drop off in performance or weld quality. What gives? Admittedly all we ever really worked on was mild 16-18g box tube so maybe that was it?
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Dec 25, 2010 03:52
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Assuming it didn't have an automatic cutoff and you somehow avoided tripping it, you probably significantly reduced its life but stopped just long enough to keep it from catching fire. Or maybe they just lowball the duty cycle because of people like you. (Edit: that is, they say the duty cycle is, say, 60% when it's actually 80% because some people will think "oh, I'm almost done, I can go a little longer before I let it rest...") Oxbrain makes a good point too. If you were welding 18ga with a big-name-welding-brand machine, it probably had more than two settings and you probably had the power turned down to keep from turning the square tube into a flat puddle, so I'm guessing 30A or less, at which most welders are 100% duty cycle. Chillbro Baggins fucked around with this message at 04:42 on Dec 25, 2010 |
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Dec 25, 2010 04:15
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The rated duty cycle is at max amperage and constant welding. My weldpak can go for hours without issue on mid-range amps, trips it's breaker after a few minutes at max amps in summer.
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Dec 25, 2010 04:25
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It prolly just runs off a thermistor - it has a feedback loop circuit and when it notices that the resistance of the thermistor is lower - the temperature its detecting is higher - then it trips the breaker... I don't know EXACTLY how thermistors or safety sensing circuits work, but this should be close enough just to illustrate the principle; Duty cycle is the ratio of time the welder can safely operate at max current versus the time it would theoretically need to cool off. In practice, although subject to all sorts of variables like what oxbrain explained, duty cycle (especially for a pretty good brand like miller) would prolly actually work out to be better in real life. A chinese shitbox might not hold up quite as well. A good, simple way to be able to charge more for a welder would be to boost the rated duty cycle... Kinda makes what miller does look even MORE respectable I guess. If you're having problems with duty cycle, BTW, there are a few simple things you could probably do to increase it, even if ever so slightly. Think what you would do to a desktop thats having cooling issues. In the end, though, its when the circuit DOESN'T trip open that would worry you the most.
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Dec 25, 2010 05:09
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Obviously then, the solution is to weld in the snow  Hammered out two more spike knife / letter openers this afternoon as I had the day off. After I baked more shortbread for the neighbours. I also re-handled my favourite hammer and ground off all the rough bullshit and terrible varnish paint. I also dressed it so the peen has a more even thickness overall, it was almost trapezoidal before. The old replacement handle was short and I cracked it when I replaced the original, so it was wrapped in friction tape. Good for grip, not long term abrasion on my skin. I wish I knew why I like that hammer so much. The handle top was buried under half an inch of black epoxy only halfway in the head and popped out after about three swings, it's chinese and the handle hole is kinda janky (I dressed it a little, but it's pretty hard metal) and the shape isn't 100% right (the peen thickness). But I dunno, it just feels and looks right. The face is rounded just right (after a little dressing) and the corners are forged in so it's a proper octagonal shape. Three pound head. It's my go to hammer for drat near everything. I'll get some images some other day if anyone cares. The forge did indeed provide ample heat for the shop, even though it's -10c here or so, and I had the big door wide open. All the snow on the roof melted and made some neat icicles.
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Dec 25, 2010 06:32
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Slung Blade posted:I wish I knew why I like that hammer so much. The handle top was buried under half an inch of black epoxy only halfway in the head and popped out after about three swings, it's chinese and the handle hole is kinda janky (I dressed it a little, but it's pretty hard metal) and the shape isn't 100% right (the peen thickness). But I dunno, it just feels and looks right. The face is rounded just right (after a little dressing) and the corners are forged in so it's a proper octagonal shape. Three pound head. It's my go to hammer for drat near everything. You've got the same hammer I do, it seems. I got a 3lb drilling hammer from Harbor Freight for work (remodeling grocery stores, sometimes the shelves need a bit of persuasion). The epoxy shattered and it fell off the handle, so I put it back on upside-down as a stopgap until I could trim the handle top to go father into the head and lock it properly with a wedge. But now I can't get the head off. Hammers are one of the things China can do right. My HF angle grinder has a warning in the manual saying to wash your hands after handling the cord because the rubber insulation somehow contains lead (as do their kids' toys, per the media flap a few months ago), but a three-pound hunk of mild steel and a hickory stick are nigh impossible to gently caress up (aside from the method of attaching the two. Also the epoxy probably has lead in it.)
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Dec 25, 2010 07:22
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Delivery McGee posted:(Also the epoxy probably has lead in it.)  gently caress. Gonna die of lead poisoning of the lung. Man, I got mine from house of tools, which I thought sold semi decent hand tools and machinery. Uh, until they went bankrupt here a year ago I guess. Mine's gotta be some kind of tool steel I think, it was wearing down the teeth on my file, so I had to switch to the sander to clean it up. Are you certain yours is mild steel?
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Dec 25, 2010 09:40
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bunnielab posted:As such, I was shocked as hell when I first heard of this "duty cycle" business. I have welded for hours with a little Lincoln/Miller flux-core 110v box, only stopping to move the work piece or myself. I have never noticed a drop off in performance or weld quality. If you look in the manual for the machine, they usually will show the duty cycle curve on a graph. Most modern machines will have some type of thermal protection... try to avoid using it. 
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Dec 25, 2010 15:38
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Slung Blade posted:Man, I got mine from house of tools, which I thought sold semi decent hand tools and machinery. Uh, until they went bankrupt here a year ago I guess. Is it possible to anneal it before going to work on it? *dv6speed posted:You weren't using the machine anywhere near it's maximum output. As the current being used is decreased, the duty cycle will increase. For example, my Idealarc 250 has a 50% duty cycle at 300 amps, but it will run 120 amps all day without stopping. I've been wondering lately, what would you use 300 amps for? The Idealarc 250 is the one you just got, right? Its TIG?
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Dec 25, 2010 16:54
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BTW, Merry Christmas! Happy Belated Hanukkah! A Quaint Kwanzaa! A Solemn and Reverent Ramadan! A Grievance Airing Festivus!
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Dec 25, 2010 16:56
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The Scientist posted:Is it possible to anneal it before going to work on it? Yeah probably. Wasn't worth it though, sandpaper worked well enough, and the hafting hole wasn't that bad. I really didn't want to re-heat treat it. Also 300 amps could be for really thick aluminium plate. Steel's surprisingly easy to weld even fairly thick pieces with TIG, but aluminium needs to be just blasted with heat locally really loving fast. You can't sit there and build up heat with it, it'll just liquefy and drop on your leg while you sit under it. Gotta be hot and fast with aluminium.
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Dec 25, 2010 18:31
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Slung Blade posted:... it'll just liquefy and drop on your leg while you sit under it... Sounds like you have an interesting story/scar?
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Dec 25, 2010 19:26
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Slung Blade posted:Mine's gotta be some kind of tool steel I think, it was wearing down the teeth on my file, so I had to switch to the sander to clean it up. Are you certain yours is mild steel?
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Dec 26, 2010 01:05
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dv6speed posted:You weren't using the machine anywhere near it's maximum output. As the current being used is decreased, the duty cycle will increase. For example, my Idealarc 250 has a 50% duty cycle at 300 amps, but it will run 120 amps all day without stopping. I assumed it was something like that. This thread is depressing as I no longer have access to a shop.
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Dec 26, 2010 02:28
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Slung Blade posted:
Don't worry about lead poisoning until you spend many many 8-hour days soldering without ventilation. The best is when you have to throw out your contacts because they give you headaches after absorbing too many lead fumes.
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Dec 26, 2010 02:41
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Linux Assassin posted:Sounds like you have an interesting story/scar? Unfortunately not (for you). But I've come close to getting dripped on. Also McGee, I didn't mean to imply anything. I often make tools out of plain old mild steel. It works ok for short periods.
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Dec 26, 2010 04:26
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bunnielab posted:This thread is depressing as I no longer have access to a shop. Same here.   However, in completely unrelated news, I might see a white christmas for the first time in my 22 years of living, and snow falling AND accumulating on the ground for the second, here in Charleston, S.C.
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Dec 26, 2010 04:54
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Slung Blade posted:Also McGee, I didn't mean to imply anything. I often make tools out of plain old mild steel. It works ok for short periods. Speaking of not that bad, my brother apparently took pity on me and/or missed the smell of burning metal, so he got a brace of slightly better welders for Christmas, and gave one to me! The new one is red!  Still 115v, but it has four settings (35-88A), and runs on flux-core wire. Now I'm having to relearn everything -- don't slowly shove the gun into the weld, can set up with the electrode touching the work before flipping the mask down, etc. I made a terrible thing to try it out. You can see where I burned through the fork with the stick welder earlier. This was the wife's idea, she's been playing Dwarf Fortress and wanted something that menaces with spikes of fork.  And Dad got me an angle grinder, not knowing I already had one. It's a 4" Makita, with wire brush and sanding pad kit. Now I don't have to swap out discs as much, at least, though it would be nice if they used the same size (my HF grinder is 4.5").
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Dec 26, 2010 07:07
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The Scientist posted:I've been wondering lately, what would you use 300 amps for? The Idealarc 250 is the one you just got, right? Its TIG? The advantage to having the machine twice as big as you need is you'll never over work it for your given application. Think of it this way. Welding machines are kind of the opposite of women. Generally speaking, a guy wants his girlfriend to weigh less then himself. However it's better if the welding machine is heavier then it's user. The exception would be inverters, which are kind of like really attractive petite women. Their small size might make you scared of breaking them, but their small size can also come in handy. bunnielab posted:I assumed it was something like that. This thread is depressing as I no longer have access to a shop. Delivery McGee posted:And Dad got me an angle grinder, not knowing I already had one. It's a 4" Makita, with wire brush and sanding pad kit. Now I don't have to swap out discs as much, at least, though it would be nice if they used the same size (my HF grinder is 4.5"). AbsentMindedWelder fucked around with this message at 16:18 on Dec 26, 2010 |
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Dec 26, 2010 16:13
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With 300 amps you can do carbon arc gouging. But arc gouging is best done on three phase input power. I've tried gouging with single phase 220 and couldn't get poo poo done fast. Referring to the question about duty cycle. I think I can concisely answer it. Duty cycle is the percentage of time within 10 minutes that a power supply can output its maximum amperage. So if a welder has a 40% duty cycle @ 200A, that means that the machine can put out 200A for 4 minutes and then will shut off. Some machines you have to wait the remainder of the 10 minutes (so in our case of 40% @ 200A, that would mean 6 minutes) for cool down. Heavy duty cycles are really only needed for heavy structural stuff or long repeated welding processes like welding robots/seam welders/Sub-Arc welders.
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Dec 28, 2010 04:25
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duck hunt posted:With 300 amps you can do carbon arc gouging. But arc gouging is best done on three phase input power. I've tried gouging with single phase 220 and couldn't get poo poo done fast. Also, I think you are the first person besides me to ever mention carbon arc gouging in this thread.
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Dec 28, 2010 05:03
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What makes Air Carbon Arc Gouging better than plasma cutting, or using a cutting torch, or any of the other possible processes you can use? I remember being a kid and looking through a miller catalog I had picked up and a welder would list air carbon arc gouging under its features, and I would think "Oh, but its not plasma cutting." and then pretty much disregard it, mostly because I had no idea what it was. I have since read the wikipedia on it, though.
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Dec 28, 2010 18:29
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The Scientist posted:What makes Air Carbon Arc Gouging better than plasma cutting, or using a cutting torch, or any of the other possible processes you can use? The main thing I use air-carbon-arc for is gouging old/bad welds. Sometimes you need to take apart a weldment and then weld it back together. Other times you hosed up and put in a bad weld with porosity or something. Plasma can do gouging, however it generally requires a different torch assembly then you would use for plasma cutting. Oxy-fuel can do gouging, but it's messy and imprecise as hell. I also use it when I have to remove alot of metal (ferrous or not) in a very controlled fashion quickly. This post has everything you need to know about air-carbon-arc. The post above it explains the differences between 1 and 3 phase power as it relates to welding. It is relatively inexpensive to get setup for it as compared to plasma assuming you already have a welding machine capable of it.
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Dec 28, 2010 22:20
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I'm going to the metal supermarket tomorrow to get some metal. I am super excited even though I won't get to work with it for at least a week. Gonna get some sheet brass, sheet copper, some tool steel and maybe some copper and brass tubing.
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Dec 30, 2010 01:37
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Sounds like we get to look forward to some posts with lots of pics about Brekelefuw building a trumpet.
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Dec 30, 2010 02:07
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Really stupid newbie question: when I finish the roll of wire that's in the welder, what do I do with the bit left in the tube? Just pull it out from the torch end? The manual tells me how to load a new spool, but it doesn't include that detail. To make up for that (or make you cry more?), have a picture of the first useful thing I've welded: a ukulele hanger.  Click here for the full 636x800 image. Ias mounting the storebought hanger for the wife's full-size acoustic guitar (electric guitar and bass already hung), and she wondered aloud if they made similar hangers for ukes. So I went and zapped one together out of a scrap of sheetmetal and a gutter-hanging spike. The weld isn't pretty, but I adjusted the angles of the arms by clamping the plate in a vise and hitting the arms with a 3-pound hammer, and it held. The tape (to protect the finish of the beat-to-poo poo toy uke I had as a kid; she got a new one, but it didn't have real tuning machines, so she swapped the strings onto my old one that did) looked a lot nicer before the adjusting. Also note the recycling of the cardboard base from the welding machine box as a spacer. I'm environmentally friendly!
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Dec 30, 2010 02:59
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Delivery McGee posted:Really stupid newbie question: when I finish the roll of wire that's in the welder, what do I do with the bit left in the tube? Just pull it out from the torch end? The manual tells me how to load a new spool, but it doesn't include that detail.
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Dec 30, 2010 03:31
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dv6speed posted:Release the drive roller tension on the wire, and then pull it out with pliers from the contact tip.
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Dec 30, 2010 04:25
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Delivery McGee posted:Yeah, I thought so, just checking. Seems a bit wasteful -- there's like six feet of it in there. But I guess it's not that much compared to the spool. How many feet of .035" flux-core wire is on a 1lb spool, anyway? ninja edit: now that I think about it, flux-cored wire is probably the easiest thing in the world to reclaim
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Dec 30, 2010 04:37
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Delivery McGee posted:Yeah, I thought so, just checking. Seems a bit wasteful -- there's like six feet of it in there. But I guess it's not that much compared to the spool. How many feet of .035" flux-core wire is on a 1lb spool, anyway? Couldn't tell you how many feet are on a spool, but when you consider the % weight of the last 6 feet of a wire spool compared to SMAW electrode stubs, it's quite negligible.
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Dec 30, 2010 04:47
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Dongsmith posted:You can save that stuff up and recycle the trimmings! So this means I need to rebuild/line the cinderblock furnace the previous tenants left in the backyard and cast steel from my electrode waste, right?  (*Military nerd: so weird to type that with the "I" capitalized) Note to self: when building welding cart, include a coffee can or something to collect electrode trimmings/stubs. Possibly two cans, in case I ever use the dinky SMAW machine again.
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Dec 30, 2010 04:54
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I dunno how flux core would do as a casting. I mean its got Flux in the core. I ain't not no expert (triple negatives are completely reasonable in the south, BTW). First, let me preface this by saying that that ukulele hanger is very much something I'd happily put up on my wall. But is that really gonna fly with the wife? And I don't mean this to be an insult, but the weld is actually the prettiest part of it. The rest is a lil rough looking, but the weld (to my utterly untrained eye) looks pretty decent. Does it feel solid?
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Dec 30, 2010 05:21
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The Scientist posted:is that really gonna fly with the wife? quote:And I don't mean this to be an insult, but the weld is actually the prettiest part of it. The rest is a lil rough looking, but the weld (to my utterly untrained eye) looks pretty decent. Does it feel solid?
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Dec 30, 2010 13:45
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I just want to say the thought of someone sticking a bunch of MIG or FCAW wire scraps in a crucible and trying to melt them down seems rather humorous to me. Also, don't try to cast steel in your backyard... it requires very special mold making techniques and is not nearly as liquid when molten as cast iron/aluminum/bronze is. Steel casting is basically an industrial process only. Also, getting the chemistry especially with the carbon content, is tricky. Alot of steel castings are made by pouring the steel into a rough shape and forging it to the desired shape. As far as using the FCAW wire scraps, just throw it in the bin with all the useless scrap that will find it's way to the srap yard in 4 years after you've collected enough. Your solid wire, as mentioned, could be used as extra filler metal for TIG or something... but I'm not going to stockpile it for this purpose. By the way, you have to be careful about melting metal down for the purpose of processing scrap. Unless you are casting a finished product, melting scrap down and pouring ingots is often not worth the fuel and labor involved. Also, by keeping the metal in it's original form, you wont forget what kind of alloy that ingot is made of. Scrap yards are generally wary of buying ingots since they don't know what's inside of them.
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Dec 30, 2010 14:09
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Delivery McGee posted:She loves it. I might polish it up and find a scrap of wood as a space in future, but it does the job for now. Cool man, what more can you ask, right? Was there a lot of splatter when you made that? Lately when I've been wandering around looking at welders in pawn shops and at harbor freight and lowe's and on C.L., I've been turning my nose up at FCAW machines. Maybe my notion of them is worse than what they really are. I've been looking for a super cheap stick machine, found one at a pawn shop that they said they'd do $40 on - I'm pretty sure its the Harbor Freight brand. Its 70 amps. This is literally just a tiny, incredibly cheap buzz box I wanted to experiment with. I live in an apartment now and I want nothing more at the moment. Whatdyou guys think?
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Dec 30, 2010 17:01
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The Scientist posted:Cool man, what more can you ask, right? Pass up on the $40 harbor freight welder. For just a little bit more money and patience you can get something better, that you'll have an easier time selling when you upgrade.
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Dec 30, 2010 17:12
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The Scientist posted:I live in an apartment now and I want nothing more at the moment.
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Dec 30, 2010 17:52
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Wait, do you have intentions of buying a small stick welder and using it inside your apartment?
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Dec 30, 2010 18:27
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Balcony welding is fun. (don't do this) ((also don't weld in your underground parking lot, it's bad for cars and your lungs))
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Dec 30, 2010 18:38
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