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Number_6 posted:If anyone knows where I can buy an inexpensive 22", 1680x1050 monitor, with at least 75 hz refresh and overall good image quality, and no discernible input lag, please post it here. DrDork posted:22" 1680x1050 monitors aren't hard to find. 75Hz though, is...uhh...well it'd be an odd bird, at the very least. Virtually no LCD monitors actually support 75Hz in any meaningful way. 22" Dell 2209WA (IPS, 1680x1050) - 76 Hz over DVI, best response times I've seen in an IPS panel, but seems to be discontinued 23" NEC EA231WMi (IPS, 1920x1080) - 83 Hz over DisplayPort, 74 Hz over DVI, but it doesn't have overdrive (response time compensation), so there's a little bit more motion blur than the Dell 2209WA 23" Samsung F2380 (PVA, 1920x1080) - 76 Hz over DVI, but the response times are visibly worse than the NEC Someone mentioned they were able to get the Dell U2311H to do 75 Hz, but I haven't tested that one myself. All those monitors have no significant lag either, which I consider more important than response times. As for TN monitors, I don't usually test those, so I don't have a big list: Samsung 226BW (A panel) - 77 Hz, confirmed myself Dell E2209W - 75 Hz, I saw someone verify with photo evidence If you're going to get a TN monitor for higher refresh rates, you might as well go for one of the 120 Hz monitors instead. DrDork posted:As was born out in the previous thread, response times are basically dirty lies and should (at most) be used as such: DrDork posted:That is, the difference between 2ms, 5ms, and 8ms amount to measuring techniques and should be ignored. A 2ms panel coupled with a lovely processing chip will perform worse than an 8ms panel coupled with a nice and fast chip. Sadly, there's no way to know which is which without looking at individual reviews. TN: 5 ms = TN without overdrive 2 ms = TN with overdrive 1 ms = TN with bullshit IPS: 6-8 ms = IPS with overdrive 12-16 ms = IPS without overdrive VA: They just make poo poo up. People say TN panels are the fastest, but TN panels are only fast with certain gray-to-gray transitions. Manufacturers started using gray-to-gray so they could claim lower response times on TN panels. TN panels without overdrive are actually quite slow with dark objects moving against light backgrounds, with some transitions in the 25-30 ms range. Overdrive is designed to help speed up those transitions. IPS is the opposite. They are faster than TN with dark objects moving against light backgrounds but are slower with light objects moving against dark backgrounds. IPS without overdrive never exceeds 25 ms, and IPS with overdrive brings those transitions down to under one frame, making them about as fast as TN panels. VA panels are horrible with gray-to-gray transitions, with some transitions exceeding 50 ms. The only way to counteract that is to buffer frames to determine how much overdrive to apply, which is why VA panels with good overdrive have lag. Basically, if you care about response times, TN with overdrive and IPS with overdrive are the fastest. They are about the same on average with TN being slightly better with gray-to-gray transitions and IPS being slightly better with other transitions. Edit: I should also mention none of that takes the sample and hold effect into account, which is a much bigger problem that hasn't been properly addressed with LCD monitors. Each frame persists in your eyes for 10-15 ms, and when following motion, the image that persists in your eyes mixes with the image that's still on the screen, causing a blurring effect. CRT monitors don't have that problem because the image is only on the screen for a split second, but LCD monitors keep the image on the screen until the next refresh. Having a higher refresh rate reduces the holding period, but what's really needed is higher refresh rates + overdrive + proper backlight scanning, which no monitor seems to do. That is why even the fastest LCD monitors still have some motion blur compared to a CRT monitor. ToastyX fucked around with this message at 23:19 on Dec 18, 2010 |
# ? Dec 18, 2010 23:06 |
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# ? May 13, 2024 07:25 |
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ToastyX posted:The 2209WA is exactly that, if you can still find one. ToastyX posted:Even that's not a good rule of thumb because the NEC EA231WMi is rated at 14 ms while the Samsung F2380 is rated at 8 ms, but the Samsung clearly has more ghosting than the NEC. ToastyX posted:Basically, if you care about response times, TN with overdrive and IPS with overdrive are the fastest. They are about the same on average with TN being slightly better with gray-to-gray transitions and IPS being slightly better with other transitions. In the end, though, if you really care about ghosting/latency/etc, you owe it to yourself to look up some reviews and see how that particular monitor actually performs, because the numbers never tell the full story.
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# ? Dec 18, 2010 23:53 |
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Pulled the trigger on a U2311H refurb
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# ? Dec 19, 2010 00:27 |
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Refurbished Dell monitors come with a 90-day limited warranty. That sounds pretty terrible!
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# ? Dec 19, 2010 04:43 |
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Fishmasher posted:My Samsung BX2440 has presets for Warm, Cool, and Normal. I wish they'd use the actual number like 6500k, or at least explain it in the manual. Does anyone know what the presets really are? Cool is usually 9300K (everything blues up), Warm I think drops to 6500K, Normal is in the middle. Pretty sure about that. Also, had no idea the 2209WAs were that special. Got 2 for $220 ea. a few years ago, have to RMA one soon though.
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# ? Dec 19, 2010 05:15 |
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movax posted:Also, had no idea the 2209WAs were that special. Got 2 for $220 ea. a few years ago, have to RMA one soon though.
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# ? Dec 19, 2010 06:50 |
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DrDork posted:Also, why do you play with vsync on? If you can't also set triple buffering, you're almost always better off with vsync off. The image tearing with vsync off is like acid to my eyes, especially with flight sims, but to some extent on all games. As to refresh rate, my cheap 19" Acer AL1916 (5:4 ratio) supports 75 hz, or at least Windows thinks it does, and older games show 75 FPS framerate via FRAPS etc. Black level sucks on this thing though, and it has some motion blur and (I suspect) worse than average input lag.
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# ? Dec 19, 2010 08:12 |
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Dr. Gaius Baltar posted:Refurbished Dell monitors come with a 90-day limited warranty. That sounds pretty terrible! Yeah, jesus, this is why a few pages back I asked if anyone had a definitive answer on the warranty policy for these, and at least one person said and linked to a page that said it was a full three-year warranty. I'm back to being unsure of how long tthe warranty is, and now unsure if this purchase was a good idea.
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# ? Dec 19, 2010 08:32 |
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Number_6 posted:As to refresh rate, my cheap 19" Acer AL1916 (5:4 ratio) supports 75 hz, or at least Windows thinks it does, and older games show 75 FPS framerate via FRAPS etc. Black level sucks on this thing though, and it has some motion blur and (I suspect) worse than average input lag. DrDork fucked around with this message at 09:08 on Dec 19, 2010 |
# ? Dec 19, 2010 09:04 |
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What's the verdict on the Dell U2211H? I'm kinda interested in replacing my trusty LG L227WTG 22" gaming monitor.
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# ? Dec 19, 2010 10:17 |
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freeforumuser posted:What's the verdict on the Dell U2211H? I'm kinda interested in replacing my trusty LG L227WTG 22" gaming monitor. DrDork fucked around with this message at 12:00 on Dec 19, 2010 |
# ? Dec 19, 2010 11:58 |
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smug forum rear end in a top hat posted:Yeah, jesus, this is why a few pages back I asked if anyone had a definitive answer on the warranty policy for these, and at least one person said and linked to a page that said it was a full three-year warranty. I'm back to being unsure of how long tthe warranty is, and now unsure if this purchase was a good idea. http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3041540&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=93#post385555774
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# ? Dec 19, 2010 15:54 |
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Number_6 posted:The image tearing with vsync off is like acid to my eyes, especially with flight sims, but to some extent on all games. For this reason I don't see why anyone would run with vsync *off*. The tearing is awful in many games. As the refresh rate is 60Hz anyway there's no benefit of having a higher framerate other than e-peen measuring ("I get 132 FPS ") or am I missing something?
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# ? Dec 19, 2010 16:31 |
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LakesGuzzler posted:For this reason I don't see why anyone would run with vsync *off*. The tearing is awful in many games. As the refresh rate is 60Hz anyway there's no benefit of having a higher framerate other than e-peen measuring ("I get 132 FPS ") or am I missing something? I can feel a tiny bit of input lag with Vsync / triple buffering on but would rather live with that than the pain inducing screen tearing. I don't think the average user don't even know what vsync is; these are the same people that complain about CRT flickering when they can just simply increase the refresh rate by a few mouse clicks. And when LCDs hit, they run them at resolutions other than native and tell me it looks good. /facepalm.
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# ? Dec 19, 2010 16:39 |
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FYI for prospective refurbished monitor buyers: the warranties may be provided on a per-monitor basis. I called and they told me that the warranty wasn't 90 days like the guy in this thread posted, or the full 3 year warranty which was mentioned in the last thread, but instead I would have a one year warranty. If you're thinking about buying a refurb, you might want to check on the phone with them just to make sure you're getting what you expected. After he said 1 year, I asked if they could cancel my order and I got transferred to another department that was closed
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# ? Dec 19, 2010 17:00 |
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smug forum rear end in a top hat posted:http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3041540&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=93#post385555774 Yup, sorry fellas. Guess I read it wrong. EDIT: The warranty said Same-as-New. Apparently it was referring to the monitor not the warranty. Antignition fucked around with this message at 21:21 on Dec 19, 2010 |
# ? Dec 19, 2010 21:17 |
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LakesGuzzler posted:For this reason I don't see why anyone would run with vsync *off*. The tearing is awful in many games. As the refresh rate is 60Hz anyway there's no benefit of having a higher framerate other than e-peen measuring ("I get 132 FPS ") or am I missing something? DrDork fucked around with this message at 22:11 on Dec 19, 2010 |
# ? Dec 19, 2010 22:07 |
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I'll be receiving my long awaited U2311H in January, and in preparation for that, I'd like to be able to hook up both my PC as well as my cable TV connection to it from day one. My PC (which has a GTX 285 that has 2 DVI outs, one of which is currently connected my Dell Ultrasharp 2407) will be connecting to the cable TV box via DVI (unless you guys advise otherwise!), however, my cable tv box from virgin media UK comes with HDMI out (as well as SCART, but that's low res I believe, so gently caress that). Devices and their respective inputs/outputs: Cable TV box ports: Click here to view the full image Cable TV HDMI output cable: Click here to view the full image Dell U2311H inputs: Click here to view the full image Computer speakers 3.5mm input: Click here to view the full image As the Dell U2311H doesn't have HDMI in, I was hoping I could get some guidance in terms of how I should connect it. Would an HDMI -> DP work? If so, could someone point me to an appropriate solution? Would this be appropriate: DISPLAY PORT M - HDMI F ADAPTOR: http://www.aria.co.uk/Products/Cables/HDMI/Monitor+Cables/DISPLAY+PORT+M+-+HDMI+F+ADAPTOR?productId=36182 Also, to connect the audio of the cable TV box, does anyone have any solutions apart from using the optical audio out? Is there a device which would split the HDMI output into both DP as well as an analog audio format? Otherwise, I think a solution like this, though not very elegant, would be appropriate: 6ft Optical Toslink 5.0mm OD Audio Cable: http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10229&cs_id=1022901&p_id=1419&seq=1&format=1#largeimage Digital Coax & Optical Toslink to Analog Audio Converter: http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=104&cp_id=10423&cs_id=1042302&p_id=6884&seq=1&format=2 Click here to view the full image Click here to view the full image 2 RCA Plug/2 RCA Plug M/M Cable - 6ft: http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10218&cs_id=1021803&p_id=659&seq=1&format=1#largeimage RCA to 3.5mm: I already have this... Click here to view the full image That last would connect to my 3.5mm male speakers. Sorry for the , just want to make sure this poo poo is right...
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# ? Dec 20, 2010 01:25 |
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DrDork posted:Interesting. Thanks for the info. I find (unsure of the truth to it) that tearing is at its worst at really high framerates (100+), so perhaps it's just a matter of using the option intelligently rather than blindly turning it on or off.
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# ? Dec 20, 2010 01:29 |
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Antignition posted:Yup, sorry fellas. Guess I read it wrong. So I called and I was able to cancel my order. It was actually pretty cool: they offered me an additional $25 off if I would re-consider canceling. It would have been an even better deal then, but I think having the safety of a 3 yr warranty is better.
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# ? Dec 20, 2010 02:05 |
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Steakandchips posted:I'll be receiving my long awaited U2311H in January, and in preparation for that, I'd like to be able to hook up both my PC as well as my cable TV connection to it from day one.
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# ? Dec 20, 2010 02:10 |
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DrDork posted:Unfortunately for you, there is no cheap way to go from HDMI/DVI -> DP, which complicates your setup substantially. The adapter you linked (and all others that aren't like $75+) only goes DP -> HDMI/DVI. That is, you have to have DP-out port on your video-card for it to be any use to you. As such, the DP-in port on the U2311H is basically useless to you, leaving you with but a single DVI port. But all is not lost! You can get HDMI switches pretty cheap that'll let you swap your sources. I'll see if I can find a more elegant solution to your audio problem later tonight. Care to give it a gander and see if it'll do? I assume I'll also need 2 DVI -> HDMI cables as well, to allow me to plug the PC to HDMI switch, and the the switch to the U2311H, so would something like this be ok?: http://www.scan.co.uk/products/5m-scan-hdmi-to-dvi-d-male-cable-(v13c)-gold-plated-male-to-male-(cdldv-305) Steakandchips fucked around with this message at 03:04 on Dec 20, 2010 |
# ? Dec 20, 2010 03:01 |
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Yup, that'll all work just fine (though I wouldn't suggest a 5m cable unless you actually need it--that's a lot of cable!). Looking at the audio issue, though, while there are more elegant solutions, they're all far too expensive to consider (several hundred dollars, usually). So as much as I usually don't like franken-setups, going optical -> RCA -> 3.5mm like you initially suggested is probably your most economical option.
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# ? Dec 20, 2010 07:13 |
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Thank you DrDork! I'll get started on my purchases shortly, so that they are ready and waiting once the monitor arrives in Jan! WOOT!
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# ? Dec 20, 2010 07:46 |
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So I got a U2410 to be my second monitor in my setup, and I have it connected via DisplayPort. I've noticed that when I turn off just the monitor (leave my computer up and running) that my computer will change everything to just one of my monitors and makes the Windows noise like a USB device has been disconnected. Is this expected behavior?
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# ? Dec 20, 2010 21:00 |
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kimcicle posted:So I got a U2410 to be my second monitor in my setup, and I have it connected via DisplayPort. I've noticed that when I turn off just the monitor (leave my computer up and running) that my computer will change everything to just one of my monitors and makes the Windows noise like a USB device has been disconnected. Is this expected behavior? Yes - assuming you have the USB hub plugged in. Turning off the monitor also kills power to the integrated USB hub, disconnecting it and all devices connected to it. Letting the display go into standby leaves USB hub and all connected peripherals on.
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# ? Dec 20, 2010 21:13 |
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kimcicle posted:So I got a U2410 to be my second monitor in my setup, and I have it connected via DisplayPort. I've noticed that when I turn off just the monitor (leave my computer up and running) that my computer will change everything to just one of my monitors and makes the Windows noise like a USB device has been disconnected. Is this expected behavior?
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# ? Dec 20, 2010 21:29 |
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U3011 Refurb on sale for $899 /w free shipping at Dell Outlet. 90 day warranty only. If you call and bargain you can get two years for somewhere between $50 and $150 depending on the whim of your CSR's Manager.
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# ? Dec 23, 2010 02:11 |
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So I was able to return the refurb U2311H and I bought a brand new one when the price dropped to 279. It came today and it was totally worth it, and I'm glad I didn't get the U2410, because it would have been too huge, because this thing is just enormous. I was somewhat concerned that the aspect ratio would be weird or uncomfortable to me, coming from a 16:10 dell 2005fpw. This is not the case. It's great. Time to calibrate I guess
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# ? Dec 24, 2010 00:58 |
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I really want to get a new monitor to go along with my current one, I don't want to spend more than $160 and won't go any less than 20". Reading this thread enlightened me a bit but I'm still slightly clueless. These seem to be a pretty good one for the price, at least to me: here or this one
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# ? Dec 24, 2010 01:22 |
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Rueish posted:I really want to get a new monitor to go along with my current one, I don't want to spend more than $160 and won't go any less than 20". Reading this thread enlightened me a bit but I'm still slightly clueless. What will you be using your monitor for primarily? What is the largest you are willing to go?
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# ? Dec 24, 2010 02:34 |
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smug forum rear end in a top hat posted:What will you be using your monitor for primarily? What is the largest you are willing to go? Well, I would game on it but none of the games I play on PC are fast-paced FPS type of games. It'd basically be for movies/games. As for largest? I'm not too sure, with the budget I'm going with it seems that it tops out at 22"-23" but I guess larger than that wouldn't be bad.
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# ? Dec 24, 2010 02:44 |
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What's the difference between the Samsung BX2231 and BX2250, and how are they generally?
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# ? Dec 26, 2010 01:53 |
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What would you say about this monitor? They give it great reviews but you seem to be extremely knowledgeable about this. http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824236052 I'd use it mostly for gaming/movies, maybe hooking up my PS3 to it.
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# ? Dec 26, 2010 08:29 |
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Pr0phecy posted:What would you say about this monitor? They give it great reviews but you seem to be extremely knowledgeable about this. I was about to buy that monitor until I decided to go for a Dell U2410 for better color accuracy. It has my official "Except for the fact that I do content creation, I'd own it" seal of approval. Junkenstein posted:What's the difference between the Samsung BX2231 and BX2250, and how are they generally? BX2331 is a 23" monitor, BX2250 is 21.5". 2331 is glossy black finish, 2250 is charcoal grey. 2331 uses more electricity. I haven't seen them personally.
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# ? Dec 26, 2010 08:53 |
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Pr0phecy posted:What would you say about this monitor? They give it great reviews but you seem to be extremely knowledgeable about this. I think it'll be just fine for your described usage scenario. It's TN, and will excel at gaming. I wouldn't expect much input lag from that Asus either.
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# ? Dec 26, 2010 08:55 |
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Great! I wanted to take your suggestions for the 24" Dell U2410 but $500 is WAY out of the price range. Thanks guys and great thread!
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# ? Dec 26, 2010 09:28 |
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The U2311H should be just as good, but without the plethora of inputs. I'll post a trip report when I get it in Jan.
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# ? Dec 26, 2010 10:22 |
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Ok I know the OP said that DVI and HDMI are basically the same, but are there any advantages with HDMI over DVI? My monitor has a HDMI port, and my graphics card has two DVI ports. I was wondering if I got a DVI-HDMI cable and hooked that up would it make a noticeable difference over my current DVI-DVI cable? I watch HD movies on this monitor so being able to enhance the quality of video even a little bit would be nice.
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# ? Dec 27, 2010 02:23 |
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# ? May 13, 2024 07:25 |
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Cmon, U2311H! go on sale again. Do it, so I can buy you.
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# ? Dec 27, 2010 02:36 |