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The sad thing about the prequals movies is that they are impossible to sit down and just watch then like the original trilogy. They are good for background noise and when you and some friends are just messing about and need a movie to mock.
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Dec 28, 2010 17:40
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thrawn527 posted:Fair enough, they might be useful for that. But attacking a one man fighter with them is just a waste of resources. Yep, the (future) Empire learned quickly from that but look where that got them: a single one-man fighter small enough to race down a trench and deliver a missile into an exhaust port. In other words, I propose that in the 3D remake of the films they should have buzzdroid launchers instead of turbolasers on the Death Star so there could be 200% more slapstick comedy on the wings of x-wings. Since it's 3D those saws had better be jutting out of the screen!
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Dec 28, 2010 17:49
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ROTS might have more scenes that are fun to watch, but it's hard to say it's the best of the trilogy because it's just such a flawed movie. I would struggle to even describe to someone what it's about, beyond "Jedi are killed, the Emperor takes over." Seriously, what's the plot of that movie? It's a series of scenes connected together by lose threads, but the movies doesn't really have a plot. It's not really about anything, other than the fall of Anakin. And that is handled so suddenly it's hard to even say it's about that. "What have I done?...okay, I'll kill kids." You yet again have a villain that was never mentioned before (Maul, then Dooku, then after quickly dispatching Dooku, Grevious) so you can't even get a consistent villain like Vader to keep you connected. Sure, the Palpatine is there, but he's not really a villain until halfway through. Before that he's the damsel-in-distress. You have what starts as a decent lightsaber battle finally about something, that turns into a CGI-fest with stupid hopping around lava like a video game. Then the final montage of random scenes to try and half-rear end a connection to the OT. It's terrible. Just like the others.
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Dec 28, 2010 17:52
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I always feel bad for Grievous when people say he was given no back story or introduction, he's a villain on the same level as Admiral Piett or if you're feeling really generous, Grand Moff Tarkin and no one gives them a hard time for not being properly introduced.
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Dec 28, 2010 18:06
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Starsnostars posted:I always feel bad for Grievous when people say he was given no back story or introduction, he's a villain on the same level as Admiral Piett or if you're feeling really generous, Grand Moff Tarkin and no one gives them a hard time for not being properly introduced. Tarkin and Piett were both desk jockeys, though. If Tarkin had pulled out two lightsabers and engaged in a frantic duel with Luke on the Death Star hangar deck before getting clubbed over the back of the head by Chewie using 3PO as a weapon... actually I forget where I was going with this because it's starting to sound awesome.
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Dec 28, 2010 18:10
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Starsnostars posted:I always feel bad for Grievous when people say he was given no back story or introduction, he's a villain on the same level as Admiral Piett or if you're feeling really generous, Grand Moff Tarkin and no one gives them a hard time for not being properly introduced. Neither Tarkinn or Piett were finger-twirling, cackling Transylvanian buzzsaw robots.
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Dec 28, 2010 18:12
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Starsnostars posted:I always feel bad for Grievous when people say he was given no back story or introduction, he's a villain on the same level as Admiral Piett or if you're feeling really generous, Grand Moff Tarkin and no one gives them a hard time for not being properly introduced. I never thought of Tarkin as a villain until just a year or so ago from this thread. Heck, I didn't even realize he was a named character. I know Leia says his name, but I always thought of it as a throw away line. In the scope of the entire OT, he's just a random English accented bad guy, but I guess if you just look at ANH he's important and an actual character.
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Dec 28, 2010 18:18
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Starsnostars posted:I always feel bad for Grievous when people say he was given no back story or introduction, he's a villain on the same level as Admiral Piett or if you're feeling really generous, Grand Moff Tarkin and no one gives them a hard time for not being properly introduced. I'm pretty sure Grievous is portrayed as more important than Tarkin, certainly more important than Piett, who is just a random Imperial officer who happens to get a promotion and survive. Tarkin doesn't really need more of an introduction than "Governor Tarkin. I should have expected to find you here holding Vader's leash". Besides, Tarkin and Piett are uniformed humans working for an evil empire. Grievous is a droid-cyborg thing who wears a cape and has a bad cough and collects lightsabers. You can't just throw a ridiculous character like that in there and expect people to get what's going on.
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Dec 28, 2010 18:37
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thrawn527 posted:ROTS might have more scenes that are fun to watch, but it's hard to say it's the best of the trilogy because it's just such a flawed movie. I would struggle to even describe to someone what it's about, beyond "Jedi are killed, the Emperor takes over." Seriously, what's the plot of that movie? It's a series of scenes connected together by lose threads, but the movies doesn't really have a plot. It's not really about anything, other than the fall of Anakin. And that is handled so suddenly it's hard to even say it's about that. "What have I done?...okay, I'll kill kids." I think when you are doing what is basically movie 6 of a cult like franchise you can assume people have seen the previous movies, so a lot of plot development in theory is already carrier over from the other 5 (I think this really applies to palpatine, everyone knows he's evil already). Its just how they do it, like what you said on how quickly Anakin turns.
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Dec 28, 2010 18:43
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Starsnostars posted:I always feel bad for Grievous when people say he was given no back story or introduction, he's a villain on the same level as Admiral Piett or if you're feeling really generous, Grand Moff Tarkin and no one gives them a hard time for not being properly introduced. Piett and Tarkin didn't need back stories, because their role allowed us to fill in the character ourselves. They're career military men/Governor's who are high in rank in a totalitarian Empire. That's all we need to know going forward. Grevious is an entirely different story. (I mean, maybe, but who knows?) And my problem wasn't that we didn't get a back story. It's that he was a symptom of a larger problem: Rotating villains. There was no true villain to connect us through the trilogy, someone to always have our heroes struggling against. Sure, there was Palpatine, but for the vast majority of his screen time we were supposed to be pretending he wasn't evil. So it was hard to keep in mind he's this evil mastermind our heroes are fighting against (mainly because they weren't). His evil persona was as present as it was in the OT, but we had Darth Vader as the real villain of the OT. Here? Dooku is in two of them, but he's dispatched so quickly into ROTS that it barely counts. Grevious would have been a much better villain if it was actually Darth Maul inside that machine thing. Still hard to logic out, but it would have served the story better. Then you would have had a villain with a history with Obi-Wan, and someone that might actually scare Anakin, since he was a snot nosed little kid the last time he saw this killing machine. thrawn527 fucked around with this message at 18:47 on Dec 28, 2010 |
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Dec 28, 2010 18:44
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Duckman2008 posted:I think when you are doing what is basically movie 6 of a cult like franchise you can assume people have seen the previous movies, so a lot of plot development in theory is already carrier over from the other 5 (I think this really applies to palpatine, everyone knows he's evil already). Its just how they do it, like what you said on how quickly Anakin turns. I mean, I'm not saying we needed everything explained, but ROTS still didn't have a plot for the movie itself. Sort of like The Matrix Reloaded, where the plot consisted of them going from place to place because people kept telling them to. In the end, you end up with a movie that is essentially about nothing. And just because we know that Anakin turns doesn't mean they shouldn't spend time setting it up in a way that makes sense.
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Dec 28, 2010 18:46
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thrawn527 posted:You yet again have a villain that was never mentioned before (Maul, then Dooku, then after quickly dispatching Dooku, Grevious) so you can't even get a consistent villain like Vader to keep you connected. This is really one of my biggest problems with the prequels. I'm not watching Star Wars for great acting or anything like that but i at least want cool space battles (like there is some sort of war in the stars) and I want my heroes to at least feel like they're in an epic struggle against an bad-rear end enemy. Instead each villan in the prequels is treated like a Ro-Beast from Voltron. I'm pretty sure it was already mentioned in one of the earlier threads but the prequels would have been a lot better if Qui-Gon and Dooku were the same person, and Maul and Grevious were the same person. Also if Anakin was at least a teenager when it all started. Darth Vader being in his late 30's during the OT just seems stupid to me.
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Dec 28, 2010 18:48
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bad news brown posted:I'm pretty sure it was already mentioned in one of the earlier threads but the prequels would have been a lot better if Qui-Gon and Dooku were the same person, and Maul and Grevious were the same person. Agreed, both of these things would have gone a long way to making the prequels more interesting.
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Dec 28, 2010 18:49
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bad news brown posted:This is really one of my biggest problems with the prequels. I'm not watching Star Wars for great acting or anything like that but i at least want cool space battles (like there is some sort of war in the stars) and I want my heroes to at least feel like they're in an epic struggle against an bad-rear end enemy. Instead each villan in the prequels is treated like a Ro-Beast from Voltron. Each was a mini-boss ending for that video game level.
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Dec 28, 2010 19:03
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Starsnostars posted:I always feel bad for Grievous when people say he was given no back story or introduction, he's a villain on the same level as Admiral Piett or if you're feeling really generous, Grand Moff Tarkin and no one gives them a hard time for not being properly introduced. If Grievous were half as classy as Tarkin or Piett, we wouldn't need a backstory for him. Instead he was just Episode 3's way of reminding us that the prequels were little more than lovely Saturday morning cartoons. If I had to pick a prequel movie, I think I'd have to go with Episode 1. Not that I think it's a good movie in any way, but Phantom Menace has the duel with Darth Maul, accompanied by John Williams' "Duel of the Fates". Those are pretty much the only two things I like about the whole prequel trilogy.
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Dec 28, 2010 19:05
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The biggest reason why Episode 3 feels so rushed and lacks any coherent plot is probably because Lucas wasted so much time in the first two movies and he was hastily forced to tie up all the loose ends for part 3. And he didn't do it very well. And he decided to shove in a new useless villain that we didn't need (Grevious) and a lot of pointlessness about Wookies and what have you. If they had skipped episode 1, and made episodes 2 & 3 into three movies, the trilogy would have been a lot better. Wouldn't have been great, but better. Seriously, Episode I is so drat skipable. Almost nothing interesting happens in the whole drat movie at all. I don't even care for the lightsaber fight at the end and Darth Maul, the movie is just a 2 and a half hour waste of your time.
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Dec 28, 2010 19:47
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What if there was already a Darth Vader in Episode 1? And the Prequels are about Anakin turning to the dark side in order to fight Vader and he ends up donning the armor and whatnot due to his terrible injuries.
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Dec 28, 2010 20:20
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It saddens me to see people ripping on the actors. The acting was NOT the problem with the prequels. The actors were doing the best they could with horribly-written lines, nothing but blank green walls to interact with, and direction that basically consisted of "Flatter... more wooden! That's it, BLANK expressions! You got it!" Even Jake Lloyd wasn't the problem. YOU try saying his lines and sounding like a good actor. Go on, try. "I'm a person, and my name is Anakin! Yippee!"  But I do have to say I really like the idea of combining Qui-Gon and Dooku into one character. At least it'd give us a character with an arc.
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Dec 28, 2010 21:22
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Powered Descent posted:It saddens me to see people ripping on the actors. The acting was NOT the problem with the prequels. The actors were doing the best they could with horribly-written lines, nothing but blank green walls to interact with, and direction that basically consisted of "Flatter... more wooden! That's it, BLANK expressions! You got it!" I don't believe anyone (in the last couple of pages, at least) was blaming the actors, but the acting itself is terrible. Granted, that doesn't mean it's their fault. Lucas is to blame for the bad acting. But it is still bad acting.
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Dec 28, 2010 21:25
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thrawn527 posted:I don't believe anyone (in the last couple of pages, at least) was blaming the actors, but the acting itself is terrible. Granted, that doesn't mean it's their fault. Lucas is to blame for the bad acting. But it is still bad acting. Fair enough. When you put it that way, I withdraw my objection. 
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Dec 28, 2010 21:34
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Chaos Hippy posted:If Grievous were half as classy as Tarkin or Piett, we wouldn't need a backstory for him. Instead he was just Episode 3's way of reminding us that the prequels were little more than lovely Saturday morning cartoons. Naturally, this being Star Wars, we -did- get backstory for him. Hell, if there's backstory for a character we see for two seconds in the Cantina during ANH... He was a warlord who was in a crash, engineered by Dooku and his friends, and had what was left of him placed into the Grevious armour. It's in Labyrinth of Evil.
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Dec 28, 2010 22:13
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Would have been great if they set up Grevious in Attack of The Clones and made him look just as good as his Clone Wars cartoons equal at least.
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Dec 28, 2010 22:18
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I wish Lucas let somebody else do a draft or two of the prequel scripts. IIRC he didn't write the final drafts to the OT movies. Should have gotten a different director, too.
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Dec 28, 2010 22:46
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The_Flasherman posted:Naturally, this being Star Wars, we -did- get backstory for him. You know, I think I've FINALLY thought of something from the original trilogy that hasn't been obsessively fleshed out in the EU: Han's reward. Remember in the Yavin hangar in ANH, when Han's loading boxes of stuff (presumably his reward for saving the princess) onto a cart? What's in those boxes? Credit chips? Precious metals? The rebels' secret recipe for chili con carne? I poked around on Wookieepedia but couldn't find anything.
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Dec 28, 2010 23:34
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The_Flasherman posted:Naturally, this being Star Wars, we -did- get backstory for him. Hell, if there's backstory for a character we see for two seconds in the Cantina during ANH... None of that is actually in the film though, which is kind of the point here.
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Dec 28, 2010 23:35
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The worst thing about Grevious is he explodes the mystique of the lightsaber once and for all. We've spent five films by that point, hearing how it's the weapon of a Jedi, that it takes years of training and being strong with the force to use one. Then, out of nowhere, some robot thing can not only use a lightsaber equal to one of the most powerful Jedi, he can use FOUR of them at the same time!
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Dec 28, 2010 23:53
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Powered Descent posted:Remember in the Yavin hangar in ANH, when Han's loading boxes of stuff (presumably his reward for saving the princess) onto a cart? What's in those boxes? Credit chips? Precious metals? The rebels' secret recipe for chili con carne? I poked around on Wookieepedia but couldn't find anything. I always assumed he was just loading up supplies for the Falcons stores like food and energy cells for his guns and stuff.
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Dec 29, 2010 00:01
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The problem with General Grievous is that if you didn't see the Clone Wars cartoons you had no loving idea of who he was. You can get away with this with Darth Vader because prior to ANH Star Wars did not exist. There was no necessary backstory available to explain the character. Grievous, however, was fleshed out in a children's cartoon that I never saw because we did not have cable. I had no loving idea of who this robot was, why he coughed, or why he was in control of a giant army of separatists. It was completely and totally baffling.
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Dec 29, 2010 00:17
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Kind of ironic in a way really when you think about it, too.
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Dec 29, 2010 00:28
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Mad Hamish posted:The problem with General Grievous is that if you didn't see the Clone Wars cartoons you had no loving idea of who he was. You can get away with this with Darth Vader because prior to ANH Star Wars did not exist. There was no necessary backstory available to explain the character. Grievous, however, was fleshed out in a children's cartoon that I never saw because we did not have cable. I had no loving idea of who this robot was, why he coughed, or why he was in control of a giant army of separatists. It was completely and totally baffling. I saw Clone Wars and I still felt he was useless and totally unnecessary.
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Dec 29, 2010 00:30
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I love how the storage crates in Star Wars look.
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Dec 29, 2010 00:44
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Angry Midwesterner posted:But... but! Without the Ewoks in RotJ we wouldn't have Lieutenant Kettch or Apocalypse Endor or the dead Ewok toy joke, so truly we do live in the best of all possible Star Wars! Of everything ever said in this thread, a reference to Candide is not what I was expecting.
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Dec 29, 2010 00:49
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Powered Descent posted:You know, I think I've FINALLY thought of something from the original trilogy that hasn't been obsessively fleshed out in the EU: Han's reward. http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Crimson_Jack My memory serves me correct. It was stolen from him in the Marvel comic series.
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Dec 29, 2010 03:30
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Insane Totoro posted:http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Crimson_Jack The Marvel comics were awesome, especially the Crimson Jack sequence.
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Dec 29, 2010 04:24
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IMO the Marvel Star Wars comics are pretty much the only EU things that totally get the fun-western-space-fantasy Star Wars vibes completely right. Or maybe im dumb! V V
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Dec 29, 2010 04:59
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The_Flasherman posted:Naturally, this being Star Wars, we -did- get backstory for him. Hell, if there's backstory for a character we see for two seconds in the Cantina during ANH... Actually we even got two backstories for him, one from The Clone Wars and a completely different from Labyrinth of Evil. I can only guess since The Clone Wars is higher canon it is the one that's now official?
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Dec 29, 2010 10:22
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The worst thing about Return of the Sith is that apparently in ~18 years (how old is Luke and Leia in ANH? Must be close) the Empire have complete and utter control of everything and the Jedi are long forgotten. In ~18 years it gained large support, changed everything, reigned over everything, and did such an apparently bad job that an extremely well funded secret rebel force was created to combat it. Really? Really?
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Dec 29, 2010 11:38
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Doctor Reynolds posted:(how old is Luke and Leia in ANH? Must be close) 19. What's the official severed-hand count in all of the movies? And is there a story behind why that became such a popular thing to do? e. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDlqwbMCBg4 this guy has had too many Red Bulls. MIDWIFE CRISIS fucked around with this message at 12:37 on Dec 29, 2010 |
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Dec 29, 2010 12:21
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Pretty much the only thing that could've redeemed Grievous would have been him being DARTH MAUL and getting sliced up in TPM and then in AOTC getting all fixed up into a crazy murder robot by Dooku and Palpatine. Sort of a worse, more robotic pre-Vader, and then Obi-Wan could've been all oh gently caress it's you again didn't we kill you once already goddamnit. As it is now he's just a stupid coughing moustache robot with no backstory whatsoever in the context of the movies.
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Dec 29, 2010 13:37
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Doctor Reynolds posted:The worst thing about Return of the Sith is that apparently in ~18 years (how old is Luke and Leia in ANH? Must be close) the Empire have complete and utter control of everything and the Jedi are long forgotten. In ~18 years it gained large support, changed everything, reigned over everything, and did such an apparently bad job that an extremely well funded secret rebel force was created to combat it. Minor 18th century European Royalty has lasted longer than the Empire.
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Dec 29, 2010 14:28
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