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Hungry Hippo
May 5, 2006

You expect me to eat this?

80k posted:

put your 20% bonds in tax sheltered space, fill remaining tax sheltered space with less tax efficient stock funds (active funds if you plan to use them, or small cap stocks). Put only broad market index funds or ETF's in taxable (like Total Stock Market and Total International Stock index).

Rebalance less frequently and try rebalancing with new money (add to underperforming asset classes). Set larger bands for rebalancing (don't rebalance until allocation is off by over 5%).

Tax Loss harvest when you have an opportunity.

about 70% of my money is in a taxable account. I experience minimal tax drag on my returns with the above strategy.

Thanks for the response 80k, I noticed you had said previously you held taxable accounts, so I appreciate the input. As far as tax sheltered, I don't believe I can add more money to my TSP that doesn't come from my paycheck directly. I do fall under the tax bracket for an IRA, would I be able to possibly open one of those and put the limit on those? Does it conflict with my yearly total in my TSP? Sorry like I said, I understand how an IRA, Roth, 401k works, I'm just a little confused about how its possible to hold multiple tax sheltered accounts. If anyone has a link that explains that, I'd love to read up on it.

flowinprose posted:

Everything 80k said sounds good.
I would add to this with a couple of ideas:

1) Potentially hold some municipal bonds in your taxable accounts.

2) If you're going to buy a house anyway, why not use that $180k (or maybe save up a little more if you're not buying right away) and just buy a house straight up. Then you avoid loan origination fees, etc, saving you a few extra %. You were saying you don't want to touch the money until later anyway, right, so the loss of liquidity from purchasing the house wouldn't mean that much to you.

3) Be sure to balance your portfolio as a whole between your taxable and non-taxable accounts. This means you'll have to pull your money back out of the L20X0 you used in TSP since you'll need to individualize your TSP holdings based on what you hold in your taxable accounts. As 80k suggested above, broad-based index funds in the taxable, most bonds in the tax sheltered. The G-fund is really your friend here, too. Its essentially a risk-free (think money market) fund that has the interest rate of a 10-year T-bill. This is a vehicle not found in any other place, so take advantage of it.

I thought about the house buying thing way back, but honestly, I don't see myself staying at this location longer than 3 to 4 years. My girlfriend and I are waiting till she finishes grad school and gets a career going before we decide where we want to live and buy a house, etc... so that could be five years from now before we're settled in and ready to go that route.

I do like the idea of using the G fund as part of my bond allocation.

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flowinprose
Sep 11, 2001

Where were you? .... when they built that ladder to heaven...

Hungry Hippo posted:

I don't believe I can add more money to my TSP that doesn't come from my paycheck directly. I do fall under the tax bracket for an IRA, would I be able to possibly open one of those and put the limit on those? Does it conflict with my yearly total in my TSP?

You are right about not being able to contribute additional money outside your paycheck to your TSP. If you do choose to increase your paycheck deduction, just be careful if you're going to get anywhere near the maximum amount, because if you contribute the maximum BEFORE the last paycheck of the year, then your matching will stop along with your contributions.

The contribution limits for IRA's are separate from 401(k)/TSP limits. You can contribute a full $16,500 to your TSP and still contribute $5,000 (divided any way you choose) between multiple IRA's, be they traditional, Roth, or whatever.

What you cannot do, and many people starting out get confused by this, is contribute $5,000 to a Roth for example AND some amount of money into a traditional IRA. The $5,000 limit applies to the combined contribution across all IRA accounts.

For example, If I have 2 Roth IRA accounts and a traditional IRA account, one at Vanguard, one at <BigNameBrokerage1>, and one at <BigNameBrokerage2>. I could contribute 3k to one and 1k to the other two, etc, or any way I choose as long as the total combined is $5,000 or less.

big shtick energy
May 27, 2004


jayd42 posted:

I'd just like to confirm that I'm thinking about this correctly.

Right now I'm focused on paying down debt, but soon I'll be able to max my contributions to an RRSP and the Tax Free Savings Account in Canada. I want them to each perform well, separately. To do that I will hold a balanced portfolio in each. I'm thinking that I will also want to hold different portfolios in each, but I don't know. I've only slightly scratched the surface of what I'll actually invest in, just by skimming the mutual funds that my bank offers on its website.

Personally I'd say this isn't the ideal approach. Figure out the time horizon and overall portfolio you want, then put the assets into the vehicle where it will save you the most money.

Generally you'll want to put:
- Canadian bonds/ fixed income in the TFSA
- US Stocks in your RRSP
- Canadian stocks in a taxable account (or at least, lowest priority for using TFSA/RRSP room)

Also, if you're not maxing them both out, prioritize the TFSA in low income years and the RRSP in higher income years. For example, I was unemployed for half of 2010, so I'm not planning on making any RRSP contributions until 2011 because the tax deduction will be more useful then.

EDIT: Note that you'll want to avoid, if possible, putting US stocks into your TFSA, because they will have US income tax deducted from the dividends but you won't get a credit for it on your canadian tax return like you would if they were in a taxable account. Canada and the US have a special agreement that US stocks held in RRSPs don't have any tax witheld on the dividends, which makes RRSPs a good place for US stocks.

big shtick energy fucked around with this message at 19:34 on Dec 24, 2010

abagofcheetos
Oct 29, 2003

by FactsAreUseless
80k, not that any bets or whatever were made, but



FAIRX had ~6% in distributions
SPY had ~2%

TheCobraEffect
Jan 10, 2003
Snipes's bitch.
I've decided that it's finally time to open up a Roth IRA, but I'm not sure where I should open it. I was going to start one at USAA, but after reading through some of this thread, it looks like Vanguard is a better option. I couldn't find an explanation of why this is, so could anyone give me a few pointers? Having it at USAA would let me have everything in one place, but if Vanguard is really better then it doesn't make a lot of sense to open it at USAA.

I have $5,000 to put in the account right now, and I would probably invest in the 2055 retirement fund. Does this make sense? The account is just going to be for retirement, and I plan on maxing it out for as long as I can.

Thanks! And happy new year!

slap me silly
Nov 1, 2009
Grimey Drawer
I have accounts at USAA and Vanguard. USAA has fewer fund choices than Vanguard, including not having some of the basic market indexes if that's what you're into. Also the fees are decent but they're higher than Vanguard's. USAA will link to your Vanguard account so you can at least look at the balance from the USAA site, but you'd have to log into Vanguard to get transaction details.

Since you know you're just interested in the specific fund, you can compare expense directly - I think USAA's is 5 times the cost at 0.80% expense ratio vs. 0.16%:

https://www.cpf.gov.sg/cpf_trans/ssl/financial_model/expense_cal1.asp

You can always change your mind next year so it's not a big deal anyway. The big deal is getting started in the first place, so good on you.

alreadybeen
Nov 24, 2009

TheCobraEffect posted:

I was going to start one at USAA, but after reading through some of this thread, it looks like Vanguard is a better option. I couldn't find an explanation of why this is, so could anyone give me a few pointers?

Comes down to two basic points.

1) General sentiment in this forum is that passive index investing is the best way to accumulate wealth for the long term. Passive index funds are ones which mimic the market as a whole and don't chase specific companies/sectors. You can still get different types e.g. US index funds, Europe index funds, total world index funds etc.

2) If you do this type of investing, the only thing that really matters is the expense ratio. Two funds that mimic the US market and have the same market returns can return drastically different over a long period of time if the expense ratios are different.

As an example of if you contribute $20,000/year (roughly 401k/IRA) for the next 30 years in three different funds that all have the same return and the only different is investment fees, the fund that has .15% expense ratio will have over 20% higher balance just due to the lower expenses.

http://www.dinkytown.net/java/CompareFees.html


Chin Strap
Nov 24, 2002

I failed my TFLC Toxx, but I no longer need a double chin strap :buddy:
Pillbug
Slightly confused about IRAs with regards to already being covered by a 401k.

For 2010 I should qualify for a Roth IRA, because my current job was not for a full year, and my future year's incomes will be far higher than it was this year. I will make sure to make a retroactive contribution before the deadline.

In future years, I think my MAGI will be above the qualification limits for a Roth IRA though. I always thought that if that was the case, then fine you just use a traditional IRA instead. However I read today about the severely reduced income limits placed on being able to deduct a traditional IRA contribution for tax purposes, if covered by a qualified retirement plan like a 401k.

So say I put the money in a Trad IRA anyway. It is now post tax dollars (because I can't deduct it). When it matures and I become able to start withdrawing from it, will those dollars be taxed again? Or only the interest earned on them? Getting doubly hit on that seems like a bad investment strategy...

I max out my 401k as it is, so I don't even necessarily need to more retirement savings, but I would rather save too much than too little.

KennyG
Oct 22, 2002
Here to blow my own horn.

Chin Strap posted:

Slightly confused about IRAs with regards to already being covered by a 401k.


I am not your cpa, but:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Individual_Retirement_Account
http://www.schwab.com/public/schwab/research_strategies/market_insight/retirement_strategies/planning/saving_for_retirement_ira_vs_401k.html

You got the details backwards for the IRA vs Roth IRA. Roth is taxed now, and tax free upon distribution. The traditional IRA is the opposite. edit: (subject to the low phaseouts) And as clarified below, the basis can be applied on a post-tax IRA contribution.

The big advantage for you if you can make a traditional IRA available is the ability to retroactively put money into your 401k which does not allow April 15 retro-active deposits the way that IRA's do.

Which brings me to...

Hungry Hippo posted:

As far as tax sheltered, I don't believe I can add more money to my TSP that doesn't come from my paycheck directly. I do fall under the tax bracket for an IRA, would I be able to possibly open one of those and put the limit on those? Does it conflict with my yearly total in my TSP? Sorry like I said, I understand how an IRA, Roth, 401k works, I'm just a little confused about how its possible to hold multiple tax sheltered accounts. If anyone has a link that explains that, I'd love to read up on it.

If you make less than the cutoffs for an IRA (non-roth) you can always Fund Transfer into the TSP ("rollover"). I actually just filled out my TSP-60 form and will be heading to Fidelity (my old job) on Monday. It's a pain, but you can contribute any money that is still pre-tax. You can not contribute post-tax money.

I don't think they limit how many times you can do this, and the TSP site does say that you can roll in any amount from an eligible account irrespective of your annual contribution. It's very difficult to make this work due to the cutoff amounts. It almost requires a period of significant unemployment that creates a dramatic temporary drop in income that is cured when you return to a higher paying job.

KennyG fucked around with this message at 08:00 on Jan 2, 2011

KennyG
Oct 22, 2002
Here to blow my own horn.
.

Chin Strap
Nov 24, 2002

I failed my TFLC Toxx, but I no longer need a double chin strap :buddy:
Pillbug

KennyG posted:

You got the details backwards for the IRA vs Roth IRA. Roth is taxed now, and tax free upon distribution. The traditional IRA is the opposite. The Traditional IRA is essentially a personal 401K and this is why there is a phase out if you contribute to a 401k. It depends entirely on your income situation but if your income qualifies (sub ~55k for single and ~110k for mfj) you can essentially get an extra $5k into your 401k.


No I don't, both trad and roth have modified AGI limits, roth for if you can contribute, and traditional for if you can deduct your contribution (making it contribution with pretax dollars). Anyone is able to donate to a traditional IRA regardless of how high their AGI is, it just may not be a tax deduction.

If not, then it is a contribution to a traditional IRA with after tax dollars. My question is, does that get taxed again when I try to take it out at age 59 1/2, or is it like I would hope, and only the gains made in the IRA get taxed?

80k
Jul 3, 2004

careful!

Chin Strap posted:

No I don't, both trad and roth have modified AGI limits, roth for if you can contribute, and traditional for if you can deduct your contribution (making it contribution with pretax dollars). Anyone is able to donate to a traditional IRA regardless of how high their AGI is, it just may not be a tax deduction.

If not, then it is a contribution to a traditional IRA with after tax dollars. My question is, does that get taxed again when I try to take it out at age 59 1/2, or is it like I would hope, and only the gains made in the IRA get taxed?

it is as you hope. also consider a backdoor Roth method starting with a nondeductible traditional IRA contribution if that situation applies to you.
http://thefinancebuff.com/the-backdoor-roth-ira-a-complete-how-to.html

KennyG
Oct 22, 2002
Here to blow my own horn.

Chin Strap posted:

No I don't, both trad and roth have modified AGI limits, roth for if you can contribute, and traditional for if you can deduct your contribution (making it contribution with pretax dollars). Anyone is able to donate to a traditional IRA regardless of how high their AGI is, it just may not be a tax deduction.

If not, then it is a contribution to a traditional IRA with after tax dollars. My question is, does that get taxed again when I try to take it out at age 59 1/2, or is it like I would hope, and only the gains made in the IRA get taxed?

:doh: you're right... fixed my post to be more accurate.

Chin Strap
Nov 24, 2002

I failed my TFLC Toxx, but I no longer need a double chin strap :buddy:
Pillbug

80k posted:

it is as you hope. also consider a backdoor Roth method starting with a nondeductible traditional IRA contribution if that situation applies to you.
http://thefinancebuff.com/the-backdoor-roth-ira-a-complete-how-to.html

Wow that sounds shady as hell. I mean I am sure it all above water, but that seems like one big game to effectively subvert the AGI limitations. I'll still consider it though, because it is certainly better than a non-deductible traditional IRA.

Another question: When it comes to 401k vs. Roth IRA vs. Taxable accounts, is there some strategy you want to employ in terms of what sorts of things you hold in each to comprise your whole portfolio? I don't quite know what, but it would seem to tax implications of bond funds vs stock funds etc would be different and you would want to leverage the tax free aspects of the Roth or the tax deferred of the 401k in certain ways.

frankylazers
Jan 2, 2011
Help me goons, I think I’ve made kind of a mess by setting and forgetting my investments. I’m in my late 20s and my employment seems safe. I seem to have redundant US funds. Should I add international/specialty funds? Add VEIEX to my Roth for 2011? Change up my 401k allocations?

Breakdown of investments in combined retirement and non-retirement accounts:

(Through Vanguard, taxable)
VNYTX- 5%
VIPSX- 5%
VGTSX- 12%
VTSAX- 18%
VWELX- 11%

Roth IRA:
VFIFX- 19%

401k (through Schwab, allocated per paycheck 50% VIGIX, 15% VISGX, 15% VMGIX, and 20% DIPSX)

DIPSX 5%
VIGIX 15%
VISGX 5%
VMGIX 5%

(Below is the selection I get from my 401k)
Stocks
Large Company
DFA US Large Cap Value I
Vanguard Growth Index Instl

Small/Mid Co.
DFA US Targeted Value I
Vanguard Mid-Cap Growth Index Inv
Vanguard Small Cap Growth Index Inv

Intl/Global
DFA Intl Small Company I
DFA Large Cap International I

Specialty
DFA Intl Real Estate Securities I
DFA Real Estate Securities I

Bonds
DFA Five-Year Global Fixed-Income I
DFA Inflation-Protected Securities
DFA One-Year Fixed-Income I

frankylazers fucked around with this message at 17:28 on Jan 3, 2011

80k
Jul 3, 2004

careful!

Chin Strap posted:

Wow that sounds shady as hell. I mean I am sure it all above water, but that seems like one big game to effectively subvert the AGI limitations. I'll still consider it though, because it is certainly better than a non-deductible traditional IRA.

Another question: When it comes to 401k vs. Roth IRA vs. Taxable accounts, is there some strategy you want to employ in terms of what sorts of things you hold in each to comprise your whole portfolio? I don't quite know what, but it would seem to tax implications of bond funds vs stock funds etc would be different and you would want to leverage the tax free aspects of the Roth or the tax deferred of the 401k in certain ways.

the backdoor roth should be taken advantage when you can. if you have no other non-Roth IRA's, then half of the procedure is unnecessary (due to no pro-rata rule) making the backdoor Roth a no-brainer to deal with.

A few posts back, i posted on taxable vs tax-sheltered strategy. The majority of my investments are in taxable accounts.

Chin Strap
Nov 24, 2002

I failed my TFLC Toxx, but I no longer need a double chin strap :buddy:
Pillbug

80k posted:

the backdoor roth should be taken advantage when you can. if you have no other non-Roth IRA's, then half of the procedure is unnecessary (due to no pro-rata rule) making the backdoor Roth a no-brainer to deal with.

What do you mean by "when you can"? It seems from the how I understand the rules, that there is no income cutoff for this. Or by "when you can" do you mean "if/until the loophole is closed"?

80k
Jul 3, 2004

careful!

Chin Strap posted:

What do you mean by "when you can"? It seems from the how I understand the rules, that there is no income cutoff for this. Or by "when you can" do you mean "if/until the loophole is closed"?

yea i mean to do it while it is possible (before loophole is closed). and of course if the numbers work out (in the case that you DO have non-Roth IRAs complicating the issue).

Harminoff
Oct 24, 2005

👽
So my bank has this option that I found out called a round-up savings account. It's a pretty good idea on their part as it's pretty much an account that the user will never touch as you can't directly deposit into it.

I've had it for maybe two years now, and I use my debit for everything, I hate using cash.

But man it's going to take 20 years for this to be worthwhile. Talk about long-term

quote:


12/31/2010 Special Deposit Interest $1.05 $156.86
ROUND-UP SAVINGS
APY: 2.99% 10-01-10 to 12-31-10

Everett True
Dec 4, 2002

80k posted:

yea i mean to do it while it is possible (before loophole is closed). and of course if the numbers work out (in the case that you DO have non-Roth IRAs complicating the issue).

Can you clarify what loophole (or "backdoor Roth" thing) you are talking about? Is this the one where there is an income limit that can exclude people from making direct Roth contributions but not on a series of IRA contributions and IRA-Roth conversions? I remember reading something about that last year.

vvv-- ah, thanks- sorry, I missed the string of posts up the page somehow.

Everett True fucked around with this message at 04:57 on Jan 3, 2011

80k
Jul 3, 2004

careful!

Everett True posted:

Can you clarify what loophole (or "backdoor Roth" thing) you are talking about? Is this the one where there is an income limit that can exclude people from making direct Roth contributions but not on a series of IRA contributions and IRA-Roth conversions? I remember reading something about that last year.

read the link i posted to a few posts back.

mcpringles
Jan 26, 2004

I was thinking of adding 10% in REIT's to my portfolio, but after reading http://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Percentages_of_REITs_Present_in_Vanguard_Index_Funds VLACX has 1.3% and VISVX has 9.4% in RETI's so I'm wondering if I should even bother?

My current portfolio is:

VBMFX 30% (Total Bond)
VGTSX 30% (Total Internatnional)
VLACX 25% (Large Value)
VISVX 15% (Small Value)

Fuschia tude
Dec 26, 2004

THUNDERDOME LOSER 2019

80k posted:

put your 20% bonds in tax sheltered space, fill remaining tax sheltered space with less tax efficient stock funds (active funds if you plan to use them, or small cap stocks). Put only broad market index funds or ETF's in taxable (like Total Stock Market and Total International Stock index).
My understanding was that you should favor stocks over bonds in tax shelters over the long run (decades), because stocks tend to grow much more over that time scale, which means more capital gains. The distributions from bonds are a much smaller factor, comparatively. This Morningstar article goes into some details.

80k
Jul 3, 2004

careful!

Fuschia tude posted:

My understanding was that you should favor stocks over bonds in tax shelters over the long run (decades), because stocks tend to grow much more over that time scale, which means more capital gains. The distributions from bonds are a much smaller factor, comparatively. This Morningstar article goes into some details.

The Morningstar article cites a T Rowe Price study that was done using a typical actively managed fund that had regular distributions and was done at the conclusion of a 20-yr unprecedented bull market in equities. It also assumed complete liquidation after x number of years with no tax management optimization.

Based on longterm expected returns, and using tax efficient index funds or ETF's, and adding the ability to:
- tax manage: specific share identification, tax loss harvest, donate appreciated shares to charity.
- step-up basis upon death for hopefully a substantial remainder at the end of your lifetime.

... the situation changes drastically.

Morningstar articles are among the most underwhelming articles i've ever read. Rarely terrible, but never useful.

Chin Strap
Nov 24, 2002

I failed my TFLC Toxx, but I no longer need a double chin strap :buddy:
Pillbug

80k posted:

- tax manage: specific share identification, tax loss harvest, donate appreciated shares to charity.


Any good articles/books on any of this sort of thing?

big shtick energy
May 27, 2004


80k posted:

The Morningstar article cites a T Rowe Price study that was done using a typical actively managed fund that had regular distributions and was done at the conclusion of a 20-yr unprecedented bull market in equities. It also assumed complete liquidation after x number of years with no tax management optimization.

Based on longterm expected returns, and using tax efficient index funds or ETF's, and adding the ability to:
- tax manage: specific share identification, tax loss harvest, donate appreciated shares to charity.
- step-up basis upon death for hopefully a substantial remainder at the end of your lifetime.

... the situation changes drastically.

Morningstar articles are among the most underwhelming articles i've ever read. Rarely terrible, but never useful.

Also, unless I misread it, they had the capital gains at 20% and the total income tax rate at 28%. I thought capital gains were always 50% of your normal tax rate, although that may be because I'm remembering the canadian tax rules.

Yup, that's it:

quote:

Canada

Currently 50.00% of realized capital gains are taxed in Canada at an individual's tax rate. Some exceptions apply, such as selling one's primary residence which may be exempt from taxation.[2] Capital gains made by investments in a Tax-Free Savings Account (TFSA), are not taxed.

quote:

United States

In the United States, individuals and corporations pay income tax on the net total of all their capital gains just as they do on other sorts of income, but the tax rate for individuals is lower on "long-term capital gains," which are gains on assets that had been held for over one year before being sold. The tax rate on long-term gains was reduced in 2003 to 15%, or to 5% for individuals in the lowest two income tax brackets (See progressive tax). Short-term capital gains are taxed at a higher rate: the ordinary income tax rate. The reduced 15% tax rate on eligible dividends and capital gains, previously scheduled to expire in 2008, has been extended through 2010 as a result of the Tax Increase Prevention and Reconciliation Act signed into law by President Bush on May 17, 2006 (P.L. 109-222). In 2011 these reduced tax rates will "sunset," or revert to the rates in effect before 2003, which were generally 28%.

80k
Jul 3, 2004

careful!

Chin Strap posted:

Any good articles/books on any of this sort of thing?

not off the top of my head. But starting in 2011, brokerages are undergoing major changes to make specific share identification on sales easy to accomplish. The IRS also, for the first time, will allow those who chose average cost basis in the past to convert to specific share method.

So I expect tax management to be even easier in the future.

A rundown:
- When you make donations to charity, ask if they accept mutual fund or stock shares. If so, when you choose shares to donate, instruct your broker to choose from the lot that has the lowest cost basis. This will raise your average cost basis at no cost to you or the charity (the charity pays no capital gains taxes). Your future tax burden is reduced.
- When you sell shares, choose shares that have the highest cost basis, prioritizing shares that have been held longer than a year if it is a gain to take advantage of lower longterm capital gains rate. If selling at a loss, prioritize selling shares that have been held less than a year as short term losses are more useful for offsetting gains.
- Tax loss harvesting: when you have a loss on some or all of your shares of a certain fund, sell those shares and buy a similar ETF or fund. For instance, sell S&P500 index fund and buy Large Cap index fund. You stay invested in the same asset class but can book a loss to save taxes. Pay attention to the Wash Sale rule.

If you choose tax efficient broad market index funds, you have low turnover so you should have rarely any cap gains distributions. And the majority of your dividends are qualified (lower tax rate). If international funds, you can claim the foreign tax credit, which is something you loose if it is in tax sheltered space. The Morningstar missed these important details.

Culinary Bears
Feb 1, 2007

Any Canadians here? I have a few questions about RRSPs. Some of them seem like they might be a bit general, so if any US people want to chime in with how the system works there, I'd be curious to see.

I just started looking into investment recently. Not a resident or making money here personally yet, but my husband is. However he doesn't have any investments/bonds/etc whatsoever (despite us not being big spenders and having a bit over 60K in savings) and up until my recent research had some totally crazy misconceptions about how retirement accounts work. Just money sitting in the bank and a maxed TFSA that doesn't do anything.

So far I've got the idea of "max out your TFSAs with bonds and put a few good index funds (and maybe some bonds too depending on portfolio percentages) in your RRSP". I'm still confused a bit about those though.

Can you have more than one RRSP? My husband's workplace matches 1k a year but only deals with the RBC bank, which doesn't seem to be as nice as TD when it comes to low fees and more index options. So can he make his main RRSP in TD, and then just put a thousand from his 18% a year into the RBC one?

How do spousal contributions work? When I get residency I'll probably be studying for a while, so low income at best. Would he be able to put any additional money into my account, or is it always limited by 18% of however much I'm making? (I know I should definitely open up a TFSA for myself as soon as possible)

How exactly do you get income taxed when you withdraw? Let's say you worked in province A but ended up retiring in province B, which one taxes you? What if you moved to another country?

Let's say we decided to live/work in another country before retirement. Well, I assume you can't contribute anymore since you're not earning Canadian income, but I don't know. Do you just open a new retirement account in that country? Do you transfer the money somehow or just leave it in Canada? Are there any "gently caress you for expatriating" penalties?

My husband's biggest worry about this stuff, other than the market crashing and burning, is that we'd need to take all the money out before retirement - e.g. for some emergency or one-of-a-kind opportunity for a project/investment that can't wait. The reason he never put money in was that he thought it was impossible to take out before 72 and wouldn't grow much (enough to compensate for that lack of liquidity) anyway. Well, now I've seen that tax-deferred growth is huge (correct me if I'm wrong), and you can take it out, you just get hit with extra taxes and can't put that amount back in later. However, is there a point where the tax-deferred growth would make up for withholding taxes? Or is it always better to go unregistered with money you think you might want to pull out before old age, even if it's 10-20+ years?

Chin Strap
Nov 24, 2002

I failed my TFLC Toxx, but I no longer need a double chin strap :buddy:
Pillbug

80k posted:

not off the top of my head. But starting in 2011, brokerages are undergoing major changes to make specific share identification on sales easy to accomplish. The IRS also, for the first time, will allow those who chose average cost basis in the past to convert to specific share method.

So I expect tax management to be even easier in the future.

A rundown:
- When you make donations to charity, ask if they accept mutual fund or stock shares. If so, when you choose shares to donate, instruct your broker to choose from the lot that has the lowest cost basis. This will raise your average cost basis at no cost to you or the charity (the charity pays no capital gains taxes). Your future tax burden is reduced.
- When you sell shares, choose shares that have the highest cost basis, prioritizing shares that have been held longer than a year if it is a gain to take advantage of lower longterm capital gains rate. If selling at a loss, prioritize selling shares that have been held less than a year as short term losses are more useful for offsetting gains.
- Tax loss harvesting: when you have a loss on some or all of your shares of a certain fund, sell those shares and buy a similar ETF or fund. For instance, sell S&P500 index fund and buy Large Cap index fund. You stay invested in the same asset class but can book a loss to save taxes. Pay attention to the Wash Sale rule.

If you choose tax efficient broad market index funds, you have low turnover so you should have rarely any cap gains distributions. And the majority of your dividends are qualified (lower tax rate). If international funds, you can claim the foreign tax credit, which is something you loose if it is in tax sheltered space. The Morningstar missed these important details.

Thanks 80k.

Just as an FYI to others in my situation. All of this sort of stuff is very new to me. I've read and understood Four Pillars of Investing, and follow the indexing philosophy. But as to tax implications of this stuff (mainly this is looking at least a year or two down the road for me, but still) I've been at a loss. I'm finding Bogleheads to be a good explanation of many of these terms. For example: http://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Tax_Loss_Harvesting was very illustrative to me.

If there are books people can recommend, I'm all ears.

BaseballPCHiker
Jan 16, 2006

I started my Roth 401K at etrade with the intent to invest in mostly Vanguard funds. Noticing now that they have 1-3K minimum deposits am I better off chipping in $1-200 a month in no minimum no transaction fee funds or should I just save for the minimum initial investment in Vanguard funds.

This is just a secondary retirement plan for me as I have a pension through work that I'll be fully vested in soon!

CornHolio
May 20, 2001

Toilet Rascal
This is a cross-post from my own thread.

I recently switched jobs (and received a 32% pay increase) and thus switched 401(k) plans. The old plan (through Principal) had the following options:



And as of today here are my elections:



Here are the significantly lower expense ratios with Fidelity:



Should I roll the Principal balance into my new Fidelity plan and keep the same elections, or change the elections, or keep the money in the Principal account for some reason, or take it out and put it in a Vanguard fund (which I know nothing about)?



Should I keep about the same elections? Should I look into this Vanguard thing? Should I cash it all out and get a Mini?

gvibes
Jan 18, 2010

Leading us to the promised land (i.e., one tournament win in five years)

CornHolio posted:

Should I keep about the same elections? Should I look into this Vanguard thing? Should I cash it all out and get a Mini?
Vanguard owns, roll your old 401(k) into Vanguard.

Those Fidelity options are pretty bad.

Leperflesh
May 17, 2007

The Spartan 500 seems OK expense-wise. It's just an S&P500 index fund. Vanguard's S&P 500 index, VFINX, has an expense ratio of .18% (not sure what the management fee is, if there is one). So it compares favorably there.

Otherwise I agree the Fidelity funds aren't as good as Vanguard's offerings, but if Corn gets employer matching he absolutely should max that in his Fidelity 401(k) account regardless.

Chin Strap
Nov 24, 2002

I failed my TFLC Toxx, but I no longer need a double chin strap :buddy:
Pillbug

Leperflesh posted:

The Spartan 500 seems OK expense-wise. It's just an S&P500 index fund. Vanguard's S&P 500 index, VFINX, has an expense ratio of .18% (not sure what the management fee is, if there is one). So it compares favorably there.

Otherwise I agree the Fidelity funds aren't as good as Vanguard's offerings, but if Corn gets employer matching he absolutely should max that in his Fidelity 401(k) account regardless.

In his thread I advocated for just the fidelity target retirement fund. I know the S&P 500 is better in terms of expense, but then he needs to worry about offsetting that equity exposure with more bonds in the vanguard than a TR account would.

Cornholio: That's fine, and in the end would be more efficient, but you'll have to do a bit more basic reading to understand what your risk profile looks like overall and what to hold in the Vanguard. Something like this: http://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Lazy_Portfolios

If you want to put the time into reading one book I would say the Boglehead Guide to Retirement Planning would be it.

Pissingintowind
Jul 27, 2006
Better than shitting into a fan.
Is it possible to drop an entire year's max of $16,500 at once into a 401(k)? I would prefer to do that than have some come out of my pay check every pay period... Does it depend on the company for which I work for?

gvibes
Jan 18, 2010

Leading us to the promised land (i.e., one tournament win in five years)

Pissingintowind posted:

Is it possible to drop an entire year's max of $16,500 at once into a 401(k)? I would prefer to do that than have some come out of my pay check every pay period... Does it depend on the company for which I work for?
It has to come out of your payroll, I think, so probably not, unless you make a poo poo-ton of money. Some plans limit the percentage you can deposit from each paycheck, but I don't think there is a law preventing it.

Brendas Baby Daddy
Mar 11, 2009
I'm opening up a Roth IRA. I was planning on doing it through Vanguard and picking from their funds. However, I see that I can also choose my own stocks, bonds, etc to invest in and not use their funds. Is there any reason why I shouldn't do this (other than possibly losing all my money because I don't know what I'm doing)?

Looks like there is a $20 annual fee for this service, which is 0.4% of $5,000 (the first 25 trades are free).

Chin Strap
Nov 24, 2002

I failed my TFLC Toxx, but I no longer need a double chin strap :buddy:
Pillbug

Pissingintowind posted:

Is it possible to drop an entire year's max of $16,500 at once into a 401(k)? I would prefer to do that than have some come out of my pay check every pay period... Does it depend on the company for which I work for?

What gvibes said. If you can afford to do without your first paychecks to do it, it would be prudent only in the sense that it allows you to guarantee company matching for the year in case you lose your job.

Chin Strap
Nov 24, 2002

I failed my TFLC Toxx, but I no longer need a double chin strap :buddy:
Pillbug

Brendas Baby Daddy posted:

I'm opening up a Roth IRA. I was planning on doing it through Vanguard and picking from their funds. However, I see that I can also choose my own stocks, bonds, etc to invest in and not use their funds. Is there any reason why I shouldn't do this (other than possibly losing all my money because I don't know what I'm doing)?

Looks like there is a $20 annual fee for this service, which is 0.4% of $5,000 (the first 25 trades are free).

Don't pay the fee. Do a target retirement fund or one of the lazy portfolios I posted a few posts back.

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Pissingintowind
Jul 27, 2006
Better than shitting into a fan.

gvibes posted:

It has to come out of your payroll, I think, so probably not, unless you make a poo poo-ton of money. Some plans limit the percentage you can deposit from each paycheck, but I don't think there is a law preventing it.

Haha, I don't make anywhere near that much money. I really am not a fan of the 401(k) system... I only want to add enough to get my company match, but it looks like that will be hard to figure out.

Can I can change paycheck allocations to 401(k) on the fly? If so, I think I'll just have a few checks go 100% to 401(k) until I max my match, then turn go back down to 0%.

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