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Chadula posted:So by that templet, alot of college kids would say yes to number 1 and not work for the FBI. This makes since for the FBI; different departments have more stricter polices for sure. I'm going to be be working for a government contractor. Industrial clearances are different then that of the FBI's and CIA's. That always confused me about the FBI. CIA/DoD/DoS, etc. etc say that you need at least one year between your clearance and any drug use, but the FBI has three. Although I imagine that the FBI's function as a law enforcement agency has something to do with that. Edit: So my background investigation began today. He says that the investigation itself should be done within the month, although I am guessing adjudication is where most of the time sink is. Gin and Juche fucked around with this message at 04:56 on Jan 4, 2011 |
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Jan 4, 2011 04:54
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Gravel Gravy posted:That always confused me about the FBI. CIA/DoD/DoS, etc. etc say that you need at least one year between your clearance and any drug use, but the FBI has three. Although I imagine that the FBI's function as a law enforcement agency has something to do with that. They used to be even more restrictive, but had to liberalize it because they were disqualifying too many applicants. I wouldn't be surprised if the DEA had a similar policy. Also, for those of you considering the FBI (and maybe some other agencies as well), you should consider not downloading  anymore as well. Not every agency cares about it, but some do. Mad prepping for the Diplomatic Security BEX next Thursday.
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Jan 4, 2011 05:16
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FBI has one of the strictest drug policies. Any law enforcement agency is going to have a pretty strict policy though. "Its legal at the state level" doesn't strike me as a great excuse when applying to a federal agency when federal law still says its illegal. PR, what are you doing to prep for the BEX?
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Jan 4, 2011 05:21
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Pompous Rhombus posted:
Is that the test everyone received a call for back in October that I missed because I was making chili? I e-mailed those bastards about receiving another call to schedule it and I was just told to be patient. Guess who never received another call!
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Jan 4, 2011 05:24
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Zoo posted:What do you mean, "agent"? In your case, you are probably hoping for either an analytical career path, or a career in the "field" (better to use the term collector). In either scenario, your best bets are networking and blanket applying. In other--also, pretty much all-- cases, you'll need to network (you probably know that). Thanks for the info! I still have a few years left on my contract so the job fair wouldn't work for me just yet, but after reading a few of these threads it looks like the application process is long enough that I'd better start at least looking at what kind of job I want. I really don't know enough about the different jobs to be able to say if I'm looking for an analyst job or one in collection, do you know of any sites or forums where I could find a better break down or some lifestyle info? I'm looking for something where I wouldn't be stuck behind a desk, and preferably where I wouldn't be stuck living on the East Coast but that's not a big deal. Pompous Rhombus posted:NSA might be interested in you, too.
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Jan 4, 2011 06:46
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JacksLibido posted:Thanks for the info! I still have a few years left on my contract so the job fair wouldn't work for me just yet, but after reading a few of these threads it looks like the application process is long enough that I'd better start at least looking at what kind of job I want. I really don't know enough about the different jobs to be able to say if I'm looking for an analyst job or one in collection, do you know of any sites or forums where I could find a better break down or some lifestyle info? If you're not looking for being stuck behind a desk, analysis is out, so that's easy for you. Finding forums, due to the nature of the jobs, probably isn't practical. As for when to start, yeah, start a year out or so. edit: you might get some vague insight by googling around for forums related to military analysis & collection jobs (Army should have a few collector jobs), but I don't know MOS/AFSC/etc codes off hand and, of course, you probably understand that the people on those forums can be of questionable competence--and that the military's monkey analogs to these jobs can be pretty different from the real thing, though many collection type positions are filled primarily by military officers and not civilians (that's not an area of deep knowledge for me tho) Zoo fucked around with this message at 09:36 on Jan 4, 2011 |
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Jan 4, 2011 08:47
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Gravel Gravy posted:Is that the test everyone received a call for back in October that I missed because I was making chili? I e-mailed those bastards about receiving another call to schedule it and I was just told to be patient. Yep, that's the one. Kase Im Licht posted:PR, what are you doing to prep for the BEX? I read through a 230 page thread on officer.com and took notes on the stuff that looked most relevant (signal/noise ratio is terrible, but still wound up with several pages worth), consolidating/organizing that and writing out everything from my past experience I could spin to put me in a positive light. Grabbed the 13D's from the FSO exam and working on finding ways to potentially get that across to the interviewers as well. I read through this book on DSS anti-terrorism and took notes on it too (it's an interesting subject in its own right but gets bogged down by the author's need to make it read like a Tom Clancy/dadfiction novel.) Have been listening to the audio version of The Economist at work, and going through the Cliff's Notes American Government to make sure none of the civics stuff trips me up. Also have the questions and my answers for another DoS position I applied for last year, which I'm reviewing and seeing if I can find a way to put myself in a better light. I don't rate my chances really high for the position, but I at least want to go down swinging.
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Jan 4, 2011 13:51
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Is there a park ranger in the house?
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Jan 17, 2011 08:40
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JacksLibido posted:Thanks for the info! I still have a few years left on my contract so the job fair wouldn't work for me just yet, but after reading a few of these threads it looks like the application process is long enough that I'd better start at least looking at what kind of job I want. I really don't know enough about the different jobs to be able to say if I'm looking for an analyst job or one in collection, do you know of any sites or forums where I could find a better break down or some lifestyle info? What Zoo said, & be careful whose advice you trust if you browse forums. The CIA has a clandestine wing (NCS), of course. Your problem there is that it is not talked about (at all). You will have to ask them (H.R.) directly about the day-to-day since I believe even talking about the job (stating that you work for them), even to family members, is grounds for termination. You may be in luck, though, since they're looking for Collectors: https://www.cia.gov/careers/opportunities/clandestine/core-collector.html FBI Special Agent (from those that I've talked with) undergo a pretty rigorous process, but the day-to-day work generally varies. someone in financial analysis or behavioral science will not get out as often as say, someone in the domestic terrorism. I will say that networking is absolutely essential for a non-analyst CIA position.
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Jan 17, 2011 18:56
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Skandiaavity posted:You will have to ask them (H.R.) directly about the day-to-day since I believe even talking about the job (stating that you work for them), even to family members, is grounds for termination. I heard you were basically allowed to tell your spouse if you have one, and no one else.
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Jan 17, 2011 20:32
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Skandiaavity posted:You may be in luck, though, since they're looking for Collectors: https://www.cia.gov/careers/opportunities/clandestine/core-collector.html This looks like it's probably the single most dangerous job you could possibly have in the CIA.
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Jan 17, 2011 21:29
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Skandiaavity posted:What Zoo said, & be careful whose advice you trust if you browse forums. The CIA has a clandestine wing (NCS), of course. Your problem there is that it is not talked about (at all). You will have to ask them (H.R.) directly about the day-to-day since I believe even talking about the job (stating that you work for them), even to family members, is grounds for termination. You may be in luck, though, since they're looking for Collectors: https://www.cia.gov/careers/opportunities/clandestine/core-collector.html A friend of mine was briefly going through the process but ended up deciding it wasn't for her, so she can talk about some of it. I remember her saying she told her parents and maybe siblings.
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Jan 18, 2011 00:45
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I can't even begin to presume if it is 'dangerous' or not, since nobody knows what a NCS agent really does aside from NCS agents... and the ones you even suspect of aren't telling. For telling people, IIRC they even mention on the website that they do not advocate telling anyone including your immediate family, as that affects "your employment opportunities both present and future." I'd like to think they give you some leeway ("I work for the CIA, doing *vague economic stuff*" opposed to "Im a spy for the CIA"); Like Jack Ryan - his wife knew he worked for the CIA, just never specifically what he did. What I *can* tell you, and what I think was Zoo's point, though, is anyone on any forum claiming to be a 'CIA agent' is in all likelihood, probably not. (i am sure you can see the similar types, like who claims to be 'Special Forces' or 'Navy SEALs'.. speaking from personal experience, the people who actually hold those jobs don't tend to go around and announce it over the internet. Then again you have people like th3j3st3r..) So just be extra careful checking your sources. Kase Im Licht, If your friend went through the process, if you don't mind putting her in touch, I have some questions I'd like to ask about it. (Namely about the networking part, not the interviews)
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Jan 18, 2011 01:49
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Has anyone heard exactly what the timeline for the implementation of the new hiring programs is? I spoke with someone who works with the OPM and she said it was up to the individual agencies, but I'm guessing there's a no later than date, too.
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Jan 18, 2011 02:22
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psydude posted:Has anyone heard exactly what the timeline for the implementation of the new hiring programs is? I spoke with someone who works with the OPM and she said it was up to the individual agencies, but I'm guessing there's a no later than date, too. From the executive order, I didn't see any deadline to set it up, just a concrete end for the FCIP in March 2011. I emailed HR at CBP and they gave me a boilerplate "we'll let you know when we know".
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Jan 18, 2011 03:26
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Well someone on FederalSoup says that the NGA has been in a hiring freeze since October. That seems strange to me, since I specifically asked my hiring mentor about a hiring freeze and he, as I said before, gave me the "in under the wire" answer. I really hope he was serious about that and I'm not actually getting the runaround. Also, I was considering writing to my congressperson, since I've heard that's something that can be done to help along the process a bit. Can I have other people write letters on my behalf, too? My brother is a serviceperson who has done a tour of duty in Iraq and it's partially because of him that I really want to start this job. Do any of you have any insight as to whether a letter from him would have any influence? I suddenly became unemployed last week thanks to multiple horrible temp agency mishaps (none of which were my fault) so I'm really hoping something happens before I completely run out of money and have to go back to Minnesota.
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Jan 18, 2011 04:25
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Skandiaavity posted:I interviewed with the CIA right out of school, and didn't get the job (obviously). I was told you could tell your immediate family, and anyone else you could say you worked for the "federal government" or that it was handy to say you worked for the IRS or some other 'boring' federal agency that when mentioned would not elicit further questioning.
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Jan 18, 2011 05:29
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Pompous Rhombus posted:From the executive order, I didn't see any deadline to set it up, just a concrete end for the FCIP in March 2011. They'd better hurry, otherwise they're going to miss the boat on this year's graduating seniors. Although, I have seen federal agencies listed at future career fairs this semester, so maybe some of them are planning on having it squared away by then.
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Jan 18, 2011 06:15
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psydude posted:They'd better hurry, otherwise they're going to miss the boat on this year's graduating seniors. Although, I have seen federal agencies listed at future career fairs this semester, so maybe some of them are planning on having it squared away by then. For my program I was hired as a "New Professional" under the FCIP. HR told me that the paperwork for the formal offer and travel orders aren't probably going to be issued for a few months. (I "accepted the offer Dec 27th 2010) Kinda sucks ballz because bills are piling and I need money :-(. I hate HR.
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Jan 18, 2011 06:26
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weren't they shooting for a no-later-than-2013-for-everybody for the new '80 day' process? Or was I thinking about something else? (2014 was healthcare, I recall) Mind you, some were still exempt. At this point I forget which, but I remember that the Intel's and State were.
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Jan 18, 2011 16:02
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Might be, although the new set of recruiting programs is supposed to be up and running within a year per the article that was posted a while back.
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Jan 18, 2011 19:03
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OTOH, government  Anyone hear back on the DIA hiring event in DC in Feb yet?
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Jan 18, 2011 20:30
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Pompous Rhombus posted:OTOH, government Nope. On the CIA discussion, I talked to a few school contacts who mostly did Analysis for DIA and they said that the government is slow and there is more competition from people with Master's and stuff trying to get jobs, so if you are serious about intelligence and don't get picked up by CIA/DIA, definitely look into the think tanks(BAE, Booz Allen, Lockheed Martin etc.) as they are more friendly to new graduates.
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Jan 18, 2011 20:45
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I've been told (and I see it echoed here) that a large amount of USAjobs postings are written with a certain person already in mind. That is, they know who they want to hire, but since they have to post it on USAjobs, they just tailor the posting to that person's background (i.e. with that person's resume in front of them) and bam, job obtained. ...which sucks for someone like me who is trying to get *into* a market where I really know nobody. I don't have any contacts in government jobs at all, and don't even know how to even get a hold of a non-HR person somewhere where I could talk to them about their job and eventually work my way into asking for a position if they have one. It's also very frustrating how few openings there really are for my background. I'm going to be getting my PhD in physics within a few months, and everywhere I look, I'm either way overqualified or the jobs I totally know I could do have ridiculous qualifiers on their questionare. I applied to some statistican job recently where I had to say I had no experience talking at conferences because it specifically said "of a sociological nature". The skill they care about is presenting to non-specialists, which I do all the time, and have done at conferences. Almost every site uses those damned radio buttons though so I can't specify. I guess it doesn't matter because knowing that my app is lost in the ether of computer sorting, it's sort of not worth worrying about. I am interested in basically anything that I can use my skills in, be it intelligence, analysis, statistics, research or what have you. I want to help the country as I can with my skills. I'm starting to think my best option is to start annoying people at the DCs and seeing if they'll tolerate me as an entry engineer (they won't  ).
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Jan 18, 2011 21:58
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Crazyweasel posted:definitely look into the think tanks(BAE, Booz Allen, Lockheed Martin etc.) as they are more friendly to new graduates. I agree that contracted positions are people's best bet for entry level, but those are not think tanks and think tanks aren't a great way to get initially hired by the government (though they make for a pretty good revolving door).
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Jan 18, 2011 22:20
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Xandu posted:I agree that contracted positions are people's best bet for entry level, but those are not think tanks and think tanks aren't a great way to get initially hired by the government (though they make for a pretty good revolving door). Disclaimer: This isn't meant to be smarmy at all. What are they called and what are think tanks then? The ex-DIA guy I talked to called them think tanks so that's what I went with.
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Jan 18, 2011 23:02
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No worries, companies like Lockheed and BAE are defense contractors. Think tanks are non-profit (usually) organizations like Brookings, AEI, Center for a New American Security, etc that produce policy papers and advocate for specific policies. edit: The advice is otherwise quite good. Most people I know who got hired as analysts after college got hired as contractors. Xandu fucked around with this message at 23:15 on Jan 18, 2011 |
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Jan 18, 2011 23:07
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Pompous Rhombus posted:Anyone hear back on the DIA hiring event in DC in Feb yet? When I checked a few days ago my application status on their website was still 'active' and now it's just been completely removed. It's worth noting that there are 'inactive' as well as a 'rejected' statuses available and they claim your application is available for 12 months. IIRC, the announcement had some ridiculously late date - like Feb. 7th or so - for letting all applicants know by and the event was for a week or so later in DC.
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Jan 19, 2011 00:28
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menpoop posted:When I checked a few days ago my application status on their website was still 'active' and now it's just been completely removed. Mine still says active. Whether that means I've just yet to be removed or I passed some secret test is unknown, who knows. Also Xandu thanks for the clarification, my contact said think tank and then in parentheses he had a mixing of contractors and think tanks as you defined them, so there was where the confusion happened. Do you have experience with contractors? I'm looking at a lot of job listings now and there are weird qualifications. For example they'll have junior or college level openings, yet they seem to want 2+ years experience on top of a BS or 0 years experience but a TS clearance. I figure if it says junior or entry level I may as well apply with a strong academic record in a hard science, is this sound or am I wasting time? Edit: Hmmm, I'll end questions there, it's getting a bit off the USAjobs topic but maybe a few people here are interested. Crazyweasel fucked around with this message at 01:03 on Jan 19, 2011 |
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Jan 19, 2011 00:57
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It's on topic, the contractor jobs are so close to government that there's a lot of crossover. Unfortunately, I don't have any idea about science/engineering jobs, sorry! I think this advice is generalizable though, if a job is requiring 2 years or less experience, it's worth applying for. Just be prepared to send out a lot of applications and only get a few replies. If they specifically require that you have a TS clearance, it probably means they don't want to spend the money investigating someone, so I don't think those are worth applying to, but I'm not sure. Xandu fucked around with this message at 20:07 on May 7, 2011 |
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Jan 19, 2011 01:43
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the e-qip is pretty much the SF-86 but a little more thorough and requires digital signing. YMMV depending on the clearance but some of them go reaaaal far back. On the contractor discussion, I see job postings are always written a little vague to give the recruiter/HRs more leeway in hiring. It's not as much '2 years requirement'; it's how you present yourself in thinking uniquely.For a position requiring 2 years managing experience, etc - were you on the student council or a club or something? then yeah you have that kind of experience, it's just in a different environment. The clearance thing is not so much an excuse. Any company will put you through the process if they feel you are worth it to them. A lot of contractors also have current business contracts which require clearance; so if someone up and leaves, they look for someone who already has clearance so they don't delay their projects, because that person will also have to undergo a background check and other stuff.. e.g. You can't just shove someone into a Army contract, they'd have to pass Army clearance in addition to any other DOD mandated clearance - which can take awhile, in which you'd not be actually working or be assigned to duties what you are not hired for. If the contract is only, say, 6 months - then that original plan would have to be dropped.. BAE, Lockheed, Booz, etc are Defense (and Civil) Contractors, 'consultants' if you will, Think Tanks are more like what Xandu said - often have names like "New American Policy" or "Internet Caucus Advisory Committee" / "Internet Education Foundation", things like that - people who want to get into policy advising/manipulation and essentially lobbying. (edit: These mostly require experience, or at least some kind of academic standing. Say, for a nanotech initiative, A Ph.D in Nanotechnology will suffice in most cases. However, for say, Veteran's Healthcare rights, they're going to look for someone who has a lot of experience in Healthcare, Privacy, IT, and probably is also a vet themselves..) It's not to say that defense contractors are also involved in the same kind of work, and certainly some postings are tailored to individual resumes. Skandiaavity fucked around with this message at 02:46 on Jan 19, 2011 |
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Jan 19, 2011 02:42
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Xandu posted:No worries, companies like Lockheed and BAE are defense contractors. Hmm, any advice for going this route? I remember applying to countless contractor positions but never got as many interviews than I did applying for govt work. Except for that PA&E gig which is not an analyst position.
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Jan 19, 2011 19:19
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Does anyone have any advice on getting in contact with hiring managers? As I said earlier, it seems like that's the only real way to (reliably) get a job off USAjobs...  Also, were you guys serious about being dishonest on those questionnaires? Because that would totally explain why I'm not getting anything back in the way of feedback. I literally don't even get a "application received" email most of the time. ...you'd think a physics PhD would be worth something, but nooooooo. Gonna troll google for FCIS I guess... EDIT: Also, are acquisition job announcements even worth applying to? I sent in a bunch to things like that, and I suspect that those apps disappeared into the ether. JetsGuy fucked around with this message at 19:35 on Jan 19, 2011 |
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Jan 19, 2011 19:31
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Anyone know when the Career Entry Program is accepting applications again? Its usually January and July and I haven't heard a peep about it yet this month. I just looked at the State Department's website and it looks like they redesigned it and info on the CEP has now disappeared. Did it get eliminated along with the intern program? Edit: God drat, it was eliminated. After the fiasco last time I was really pissed off and had hoped I'd have a better shot the next time around. Now I am really disappointed. Sirotan fucked around with this message at 20:09 on Jan 19, 2011 |
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Jan 19, 2011 20:04
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I tried googling for it for you and just discovered that the State Department career website has a forum, weird. Here's your answer thoughhttp://careers.state.gov/engage/forums/careers-state-gov/career-entry-program posted:The President's recent Executive Order, which you may have read about in the newspapers, rescinded and revoked the Federal Career Intern Program (at the Department of State, we called it the Career Entry Program). It will be superceded by a new program. Details should be available sometime next year. At this time, we do not know if the new program will be advertised on various Federal agency websites, or directly through OPM. We suggest that you check the OPM website https://www.opm.gov from time to time for updates on the new program. Skandiaavity posted:the e-qip is pretty much the SF-86 but a little more thorough and requires digital signing. YMMV depending on the clearance but some of them go reaaaal far back. Luckily for me I'm young and most questions only go back to 18. quote:
Yeah I was specifically referring to places like this where they are really after people who have already been cleared. I don't think any USAJOBs announcements will require you to already have a clearance, but there are some where it'd be very hard to meet the requirements without one. Gravel Gravy posted:Hmm, any advice for going this route? I remember applying to countless contractor positions but never got as many interviews than I did applying for govt work. Except for that PA&E gig which is not an analyst position. Now that I think about it, most of the people I know who got in as contractors had had some prior experience with the government, usually internships. A lot of the gov internships don't transfer directly to federal employment because of hiring rules, so they end up as contractors.
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Jan 19, 2011 20:14
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I'm applying to a job that I'm qualified for by education, but it asks a question like this, which doesn't give the option to say that (although the announcement said you can use education to qualify). I get the feeling if I say I don't have the year at DR-01, I'm hosed regardless. What should I do??? EDIT: My gut feeling is to say I do, and if asked, to say that I thought that since I'm using my PhD to qualify, that counts. JetsGuy fucked around with this message at 21:09 on Jan 19, 2011 |
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Jan 19, 2011 21:00
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JetsGuy posted:Also, were you guys serious about being dishonest on those questionnaires? Because that would totally explain why I'm not getting anything back in the way of feedback. I literally don't even get a "application received" email most of the time. Yeah, just check out FederalSoup if you think people don't do it. Honestly, after going back through the questionnaire for the Passport Specialist job with State with a fine tooth comb (was using it to prep for the DSS's QEP) it turned out that I could have answered more questions in the affirmative. I haven't gone back and tallied them up (and I'm not going to, too depressing), but I conceivably could have made the Detroit cut-off of 97 points (from 88) just by really wracking my brain and applying a bit of gentle, justifiable spin.
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Jan 19, 2011 21:01
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JetsGuy, it's not directly asking you if you've actually had a DR-01 job; it's asking if you have performed at a level similar to DR-01, or positions (GS) that are similar. If you can spin your Ph.D Experiences (labwork? Managing/TA?) with your overall education then answer yes and let H.R. sort it out for you. Maybe a better analogy: A mother applies for a managing job. They do not necessarily ask her to have that necessary experience, but she has experience managing time, finances, making sure people complete their (home)work, etc. She may also have knowledge of say, biochemistry or IT or something, but she also has experience managing people and thus can appropriately meet the position's requirements. Unless the position is specifically detailed/asking for people who have had "Biochem/IT/whatever Managing Experience", which is when you know they have someone already in mind.
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Jan 19, 2011 22:03
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Pompous Rhombus posted:Yeah, just check out FederalSoup if you think people don't do it. Yeah, I'm starting to get the feeling that I have to always err on the side of "justifiable spin" if I can at all defend it. Skandiaavity posted:JetsGuy, it's not directly asking you if you've actually had a DR-01 job; it's asking if you have performed at a level similar to DR-01, or positions (GS) that are similar. If you can spin your Ph.D Experiences (labwork? Managing/TA?) with your overall education then answer yes and let H.R. sort it out for you. Ah ok, cool. Thanks!  Things are looking up from my grumpy post yesterday!
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Jan 19, 2011 22:19
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Xandu posted:Now that I think about it, most of the people I know who got in as contractors had had some prior experience with the government, usually internships. A lot of the gov internships don't transfer directly to federal employment because of hiring rules, so they end up as contractors. The only entry-level contracting jobs I can find require an active TS/SCI with full polygraph. It's making my active secret clearance self-conscious.
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Jan 19, 2011 23:42
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