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Untagged
Mar 29, 2004

Hey, does your planet have wiper fluid yet or you gonna freak out and start worshiping us?
Always Alliant Credit Union.


If your not membership eligible you can donate $10 to the orphan foundation and become a member - and be donating money to a good cause.

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Cornflake
Jun 22, 2005
Psycho Alpha Disco Beta Bio Aqua Do Loop
When I was 18, I moved to Florida for a year to stay with my Dad. When I was leaving, Bank of America sent a credit card to the house. My dad activated it thinking it was for him since we have the same name. Over the course of a couple of years, my dad and his wife proceed to rack up thousands of dollars of charges on that card.

Somewhere down the line, he stopped paying for it and I had Bank of America all down my rear end telling me I needed to pay it. I immediately refused because gently caress, I didn't have poo poo to do with it. I gave them my dad's number and they left me alone for a while. Now they are calling me again saying there is 4000 on it but I can pay 800 dollars. I told them to gently caress off (in much nicer words) and tried to dispute it with all the credit bureaus.

I just got back my first response from Experian and they marked the dispute as "Updated" which according to them means:

quote:

Updated - A change was made to this item; review this report to view the change. If ownership of the item was disputed, then it was verified as belonging to you.

So according to Experian this belongs to me. It wouldn't be hard for me to prove that logically it couldn't have been me since I was finishing up my degree in San Diego while all those charges on the card were coming from Jacksonville Florida. They didn't even really hear my case. I think I had to fill out a message box allowing me a couple hundred characters to explain, which is only enough room to say HEY, THIS ISN'T MINE.

So what's my next move internet? I really just want it removed from my credit because its really unfair that BoA sends out a card that I never even saw/used but I'm deemed responsible for it.

ladyweapon
Nov 6, 2010

It reads all over his face,
like he's an Italian.

Cornflake posted:

So what's my next move internet? I really just want it removed from my credit because its really unfair that BoA sends out a card that I never even saw/used but I'm deemed responsible for it.

If no one here has your solution, try the Ask me about dealing with/suing/being sued by debt collectors!. I know it doesn't seem like a relevant thread, but Cubswoo (as well as a number of other posters) are very well versed in dealing with the credit reporting agencies. Also, I think it was Illegibly Eligible (he has a couple threads in E/N) who had his identity stolen by his parents twice. They did it intentionally, and it sounds like yours was just a mistake, but he might know what steps to take.

My Q-Face
Jul 8, 2002

A dumb racist who need to kill themselves

slap me silly posted:

That's not practical when you're starting from scratch and adding $hundreds per month, and anyway the rates on 1-year CDs are pretty much par with the online savings accounts right now. It's a good thing to consider in general, just not real useful for this guy.

I believe a Variable rate CD lets you continue adding money to it for the life of the CD. I don't know that it compares with online Savings Accounts, but my bank's Variable CDs are twice the interest rate of its Savings Accounts.

slap me silly
Nov 1, 2009
Grimey Drawer
Well what do you know - turns out my bank does those too. Rates seem to be just a little lower than the online savings accounts for a one-year term.

spatula
Nov 6, 2004
A few months ago my dumb cat ate some dumb poo poo and I had to pay a lot of money to fix him. I got this CareCredit credit card because I got 6 months of no interest on it, but I'll be done paying it off next month.

So what do I do with this credit line when I'm done with it? I will never use this card again, because there's really no benefit to it after the promotional period is over. I should leave the account open, right? Can I just cut up my card into a million little pieces and be done with it?

Ulf
Jul 15, 2001

FOUR COLORS
ONE LOVE
Nap Ghost

2508084 posted:

Okay, I will admit (if necessary) that I'm a big, huge baby, but how do you guys keep your houses at 54F?!
Sorry I took so long to get back to this. The trick is that we have a timer in our thermostat, it's set at 50F when everyone is asleep or at work, and it switches to 68F an hour before anyone gets up or comes home.

Ulf
Jul 15, 2001

FOUR COLORS
ONE LOVE
Nap Ghost

spatula posted:

So what do I do with this credit line when I'm done with it? I will never use this card again, because there's really no benefit to it after the promotional period is over. I should leave the account open, right? Can I just cut up my card into a million little pieces and be done with it?
Unless it has an annual fee you should leave it open.

ladyweapon
Nov 6, 2010

It reads all over his face,
like he's an Italian.

Ulf posted:

Sorry I took so long to get back to this. The trick is that we have a timer in our thermostat, it's set at 50F when everyone is asleep or at work, and it switches to 68F an hour before anyone gets up or comes home.

I understand thermostat timers, I just cant comprehend letting my house get to 50F. At about 65F(without the heater on) I can't sleep because I'm freezing. I think BFC has discovered that it is because of inferior blankets. I'm getting a microfiber blanket/comforter in January :)


Ulf posted:

Unless it has an annual fee you should leave it open.
Agreed. If BFC taught me anything, it was that the length of an open account is more important that the use of the account. *

*unless I'm wrong then don't listen to anything I say because I'm stupid :downs:

Exi7wound
Aug 22, 2004

LOGANO
Remember my name... you'll be screaming it later.
This seems like an appropriate thread for this question... maybe...

I'm currently drawing unemployment benefits.

If I take a part time job, can I continue to draw reduced benefits, or will my claim be invalidated because I've found employment?

I'm thinking about applying for a job that's only part time, and half or what I was making per hour, but would really look good on a resume. It would also be better than sitting around the house going stir-crazy.

FCKGW
May 21, 2006

Check your state unemployment website, but most will allow you to collect partial benefits to make up the difference in income.

KarmaCandy
Jan 14, 2006

Exi7wound posted:

If I take a part time job, can I continue to draw reduced benefits, or will my claim be invalidated because I've found employment?

It'll be state specific.

There are definitely some states that disqualify you if you work for four or more days during the week. So a part time job where you work 3 days but work for many hours won't disqualify you and you'll receive partial benefits, but a job where you work 4 days and less hours will disqualify you completely. A dumb, dumb rule that discourages people from taking part time jobs but it definitely exists and I assume other states have similarly dumb rules.

andy17null
Nov 29, 2007

I'M SO GODDAMN RETARDED, I THINK THIS IS LITERALLY REAL MONEY
I started my first job out of college in September. I claimed no deductions on my W-4. Please confirm/deny my understanding:

My company is withholding enough each month to pay 1/12 of my expected yearly tax. I will have only worked for four months if I file on 1/1/11, so my 2010 income will be 1/3 of my yearly salary. This puts me in the 15% tax bracket for 2010 instead of the 25% bracket.

Should I expect a refund of this extra money? Can I file on January 1 and if so, when will I receive my refund check?

edit: found the tax thread

ladyweapon
Nov 6, 2010

It reads all over his face,
like he's an Italian.

andy17null posted:

Can I file on January 1 and if so, when will I receive my refund check?

edit: found the tax thread

You can file the day they get your w2 to you, whether or not thats Jan 1 is on them. If you file everything electronically, last year my turn around on getting my refund was about a week, if not a couple days.

Justice Fries
Oct 23, 2008
Edit: Figured it out.

Justice Fries fucked around with this message at 09:07 on Dec 31, 2010

Craptacular!
Jul 9, 2001

Fuck the DH
I have two credit cards: A secured card from my bank with $800 of my money in it, that they charge me a ridiculous interest rate and annual fee for. And a CapOne card with a $750 limit.

I'm coming about due for that annual fee again, and would simply prefer to have $800 of money back. I had that card made in 2005 to help me establish credit, and for five years now I have paid all bills due on time with one exception years ago as a teachable moment.

So, what I'd like to do is call CapOne and ask for a higher limit, and then close this secured card. But I hear on CNBC and other places that you basically should never ever cancel a credit card because it will impact your credit rating. But I just don't need this secured card anymore, especially not at the fees and interest they're using.

Also, for what it's worth, all my friends with credit cards always get "hey, we gave you a higher limit!" notices all of the time. They get thousands and thousands of dollars in credit limit that never seems to be enough, while I have been promised levels below $1000 anywhere I look. But my friends all work, I'm an unemployed sponge off my parents although starting last summer I now make about $200 a month working on the internet (though no agency is probably aware of this.) I bring this up because I have no idea if it will impact my ability to raise my limit.

Anyway, my main concern here is that I might damage my credit enough with these moves that if I get a job this year, I won't be able to rent a place of my own and finally move out of my parents' spare bedrooms. Advice?

slap me silly
Nov 1, 2009
Grimey Drawer
I would do it - did do something similar in fact, when I closed my oldest account last year. But I also don't believe in letting your credit score govern your life.

I'm also pretty sure they look at your income when deciding on your credit limit. :)

ladyweapon
Nov 6, 2010

It reads all over his face,
like he's an Italian.
You've had the card since 2005 and the bank hasn't turned it into an unsecured card? Call your bank and get them to turn it into an unsecured card with the threat of closing the account. I have a secured card and my bank told me that if all my payments were on time, they'd unsecure it after one year.

The annual fee issue, I have no opinion on. I think mine has a 25$/year annual fee which is worth it to me since its my only card.

Craptacular!
Jul 9, 2001

Fuck the DH

2508084 posted:

You've had the card since 2005 and the bank hasn't turned it into an unsecured card? Call your bank and get them to turn it into an unsecured card with the threat of closing the account. I have a secured card and my bank told me that if all my payments were on time, they'd unsecure it after one year.

The annual fee issue, I have no opinion on. I think mine has a 25$/year annual fee which is worth it to me since its my only card.

They did offer to give me my money and turn it into an unsecured card with the same terms. But the interest rate and the annual fee are both so insane compared to the CapOne card that I got simply by replying to an offer in the mail, that I never use the card.

As far as income goes, in 2.5 years of my CapOne card I was late over 30 days and begged for forgiveness just one time, and in the past 12+ months have paid it in full every month, sometimes more than once a month, even when running up 50+% of my limit.

They might not know where the hell I'm getting my money from (although I'm going to have to pay taxes for the first time this year), but they should know by now that I somehow manage to get enough to cover my debts to them.

Zeta Taskforce
Jun 27, 2002

Craptacular! posted:

They did offer to give me my money and turn it into an unsecured card with the same terms. But the interest rate and the annual fee are both so insane compared to the CapOne card that I got simply by replying to an offer in the mail, that I never use the card.

As far as income goes, in 2.5 years of my CapOne card I was late over 30 days and begged for forgiveness just one time, and in the past 12+ months have paid it in full every month, sometimes more than once a month, even when running up 50+% of my limit.

They might not know where the hell I'm getting my money from (although I'm going to have to pay taxes for the first time this year), but they should know by now that I somehow manage to get enough to cover my debts to them.

Per the Credit Card Act of 2009, credit card companies are required to verify income on all new accounts and requests to extend credit on existing accounts. The days where one could put down their salary and not have to do anything else are over. Based on your current income, it may be difficult to or impossible to get a card with a much higher limit, or for that matter any new card, at least without a cosigner.

However credit quality is just one factor in managing your finances and winning with money, and a relatively small factor at that when you compared it with having savings, investments, income, and a career. Your credit score doesn’t measure net worth, your income, or if you are able to save money or not. People often hold their FICO scores in too high regard to the detriment of other aspects of their life. You can’t pay your rent with your FICO score, you can’t retire on your score, nor will it get you a job (although it could prevent you from getting one) It can only measure and attempts to predict how you interact with debt.

SynMoo
Dec 4, 2006

I'm looking for a calculator that will let me see how much interest I'll save and how early I'll pay off my auto loan if I halve my monthly payment and pay it twice per month instead of once. They idea is that it cuts down on compounded interest.

I've found plenty of calculators that will show me the difference if I over pay, which I plan to do, but none that will show me the results if I pay twice a month.

Example: If my car payment were $400 per month, instead of paying $400 once each month before the due date, I would pay $250, every two weeks.

LorneReams
Jun 27, 2003
I'm bizarre

SynMoo posted:

I'm looking for a calculator that will let me see how much interest I'll save and how early I'll pay off my auto loan if I halve my monthly payment and pay it twice per month instead of once. They idea is that it cuts down on compounded interest.

I've found plenty of calculators that will show me the difference if I over pay, which I plan to do, but none that will show me the results if I pay twice a month.

Example: If my car payment were $400 per month, instead of paying $400 once each month before the due date, I would pay $250, every two weeks.

Amortize at 26 periods a year instead of 12. That should work, you can do it easily in excel....google the formula.

slap me silly
Nov 1, 2009
Grimey Drawer
"Twice a month" or "every two weeks"? The latter of course results in more money paid during the year because there are 12 months but 26 two-week periods in the calendar.

The practical answer is that you should just pay once per month like normal, but pay extra ($500). The additional reduction in interest cost you'd get with a multi-payment scheme is tiny, and good luck getting the bank to go along with it anyway.

SynMoo
Dec 4, 2006

slap me silly posted:

"Twice a month" or "every two weeks"? The latter of course results in more money paid during the year because there are 12 months but 26 two-week periods in the calendar.

The practical answer is that you should just pay once per month like normal, but pay extra ($500). The additional reduction in interest cost you'd get with a multi-payment scheme is tiny, and good luck getting the bank to go along with it anyway.

You're right, I see the difference there. If I'm disciplined properly it would be every two weeks as opposed to semi-monthly.

I can make payments as often as I want, as long as I have the minimum amount paid before the due date each monthly period.

It's such an easy thing to do, pay bi-weekly, that even a small savings is worth it. Schedule my $250 payment for each pay day, out of sight, out of mind.

slap me silly
Nov 1, 2009
Grimey Drawer
Well hey, if they'll play and you're on a two-week pay period then go for it, I can't see a downside.

Dragyn
Jan 23, 2007

Please Sam, don't use the word 'acumen' again.
I'm just going to cross post this here: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3378960

Free eBook - Debt Free for Life (today, 1/5 only)

Seems to hit on a lot of the points that have been discussed in this thread.

Craptacular!
Jul 9, 2001

Fuck the DH

Zeta Taskforce posted:

Per the Credit Card Act of 2009, credit card companies are required to verify income on all new accounts and requests to extend credit on existing accounts. The days where one could put down their salary and not have to do anything else are over. Based on your current income, it may be difficult to or impossible to get a card with a much higher limit, or for that matter any new card, at least without a cosigner.

Having read the relevant portions of the bill, I was under the impression that was for people under the age of 21. The part you're talking about does say not to raise limits without considering whether the customer can pay, but since I never run up to my limit and always make more than minimum payments it ought to be pretty obvious that I'm a responsible person.

The language is much less restrictive on that count than the portion talking about credit under 21. I'm 28, I just don't get out of the house and find a job already.

Zeta Taskforce
Jun 27, 2002

Craptacular! posted:

Having read the relevant portions of the bill, I was under the impression that was for people under the age of 21. The part you're talking about does say not to raise limits without considering whether the customer can pay, but since I never run up to my limit and always make more than minimum payments it ought to be pretty obvious that I'm a responsible person.

The language is much less restrictive on that count than the portion talking about credit under 21. I'm 28, I just don't get out of the house and find a job already.

You're right about the under 21 part. My reading of the law is that in almost all circumstances you are required to have a cosigner. All college students need a cosigner. The only exception would be individuals who were working, not in school, and in no way dependent on their parents would we consider doing a card in their name only.

As far as needing a cosigner at 28, there is no age related restriction there. It is more of a function of having an income that is low and/or hard to verify, and while there is nothing in the credit card act that restricts banks from giving a $10,000 card to someone who earns $200/month, they are unlikely to. It used to be that you could put down virtually anything on the application and they would use your stated income to calculate your limit. They legally can't do that anymore.

royalejest
Oct 31, 2006

Clapton is God.
So I ran into a liquidity problem today where I had to scramble to pull together funds for a reimbursable business expense on short notice.

I keep the vast majority of my money in an ING savings account, but there's a two-business-day float time to get money out, so I'm going to get a crappy no-interest BoA savings account this weekend to use as a stepping stone for my money on the way to ING, but was wondering what kinds of ratios people keep their savings in?

I'd like to keep my checking account to no more than about a paycheck's worth at a time (it was extra low today because my rent check just cleared), but then how much do people usually keep in a liquid account like the BoA savings would be vs. other savings accounts, and then investments?

Chin Strap
Nov 24, 2002

I failed my TFLC Toxx, but I no longer need a double chin strap :buddy:
Pillbug

royalejest posted:

I'd like to keep my checking account to no more than about a paycheck's worth at a time (it was extra low today because my rent check just cleared), but then how much do people usually keep in a liquid account like the BoA savings would be vs. other savings accounts, and then investments?

I tend to like to have one full months complete expenses immediately available. That seems like enough for most small immediate emergencies to me.

slap me silly
Nov 1, 2009
Grimey Drawer
Checking: at least enough for the mortgage payment
Fast access savings: a bit more than one paycheck
Online savings: 5 months' expenses

More or less. I use my credit card for reimbursable business stuff so I usually have plenty of time to deal with it.

Safety Engineer
Jun 13, 2008

Hopefully I can condense this question/search for advice to a manageable level. I'd post this in the car buying megathread but it's been inactive since November.

Is a "Motor Vehicle Contract of Sale" for a used car legally binding if the dealership didn't sign the paperwork? I just realized that there isn't a single signature from the dealership on any of our copies.

Theres a line in the contract that states "If seller agrees to arrange for financing, then both seller and purchaser must sign disclosure "B". Is the whole thing null and void if they sent us on our way without signing it themselves?

The only signatures on any copies of the paperwork we have is our own, leading me to believe that this was intended to be one of those situations where were offered a great interest rate to get us committed, only to have them end up coming back to us and saying "Sorry the bank says you need to put more down to get the deal".

With everything that's happened in the last week in regards to this whole deal, we'd be really happy to walk away from it.

Safety Engineer fucked around with this message at 10:04 on Jan 7, 2011

Quarantini
Aug 9, 2010
Can someone clarify how those form letters that basically say "Here is $100 for my $500 debt, take it and close the account" work? I know I saw them somewhere in this thread but can't find the page at the moment. I have a couple moster cards that I would like to settle if thats possible? I am late on payments and simply don't have the cash to get them under control.

Zeta Taskforce
Jun 27, 2002

Safety Engineer posted:

Hopefully I can condense this question/search for advice to a manageable level. I'd post this in the car buying megathread but it's been inactive since November.

Is a "Motor Vehicle Contract of Sale" for a used car legally binding if the dealership didn't sign the paperwork? I just realized that there isn't a single signature from the dealership on any of our copies.

Theres a line in the contract that states "If seller agrees to arrange for financing, then both seller and purchaser must sign disclosure "B". Is the whole thing null and void if they sent us on our way without signing it themselves?

The only signatures on any copies of the paperwork we have is our own, leading me to believe that this was intended to be one of those situations where were offered a great interest rate to get us committed, only to have them end up coming back to us and saying "Sorry the bank says you need to put more down to get the deal".

With everything that's happened in the last week in regards to this whole deal, we'd be really happy to walk away from it.

This is more of a legal question, perhaps a state specific legal question, but no one can force you to buy a car. Are you talking about getting a deposit back?

You didn’t mention this, so please fill me in if the broad brush strokes I am making are inaccurate, but did you go to a car dealership with the intention of buying a new car, or a relatively expensive used car and were not able to qualify for the dealer incentive financing? What kind of car are you thinking about, and what are they coming back to you as far as rates and conditions?

My thought is this might be a car that you can’t afford. Dealers like to sell cars. They know that by asking for down payments and not offering the rates in their ads mean that they are less likely to sell the car. Did I mention that salespersons really like eating and making their boat payments, and that only happens when they sell a car? In spite of that, something was of concern to the banks that they use. Is your credit less than top notch due to high balances on credit cards? Are you upside down on your trade and there is a big chunk of money that they don’t want to roll into the new deal? Will your debt to income ratio be tight? If so, and you get something cheaper instead, they might be doing you a favor.

If I’m 180 degrees wrong about everything, you can let me know that too.

SiGmA_X
May 3, 2004
SiGmA_X

Quarantini posted:

Can someone clarify how those form letters that basically say "Here is $100 for my $500 debt, take it and close the account" work? I know I saw them somewhere in this thread but can't find the page at the moment. I have a couple moster cards that I would like to settle if thats possible? I am late on payments and simply don't have the cash to get them under control.
I only have super limited experience in which the PFD didn't work. My case was a bit odd tho. I pulled my credit this fall (yes, I should have done it a few years back, live and learn, I don't use my credit so I didn't think to pull it ever) and found US Bank was reporting on a card I knew I paid off in 2006! So I sent them a PFD letter just to see what would happen. An accounts rep called me and told me that my account already had been paid off ~4.5yrs ago, and they just never reported it to the three agencies. Dbags. The lady also told me that the whole PFD thing doesn't exist, at least not at the credit card level.

From what I have read online, I do believe PFD's can work, but you will have to be in collections, at a collection agency that paid a small % for your debt. If you're just late a few payments, I doubt you'll have any luck. The CC agency will be happy to keep tacking on non-payment charges and typically bump your interest to an even more insane level. I wish you the best of luck man, debt and dealing with it sucks!

Also this is the thread to go to for debt collection info: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3234974

Safety Engineer
Jun 13, 2008

Zeta Taskforce posted:

This is more of a legal question, perhaps a state specific legal question, but no one can force you to buy a car. Are you talking about getting a deposit back?

You didn’t mention this, so please fill me in if the broad brush strokes I am making are inaccurate, but did you go to a car dealership with the intention of buying a new car, or a relatively expensive used car and were not able to qualify for the dealer incentive financing? What kind of car are you thinking about, and what are they coming back to you as far as rates and conditions?

My thought is this might be a car that you can’t afford. Dealers like to sell cars. They know that by asking for down payments and not offering the rates in their ads mean that they are less likely to sell the car. Did I mention that salespersons really like eating and making their boat payments, and that only happens when they sell a car? In spite of that, something was of concern to the banks that they use. Is your credit less than top notch due to high balances on credit cards? Are you upside down on your trade and there is a big chunk of money that they don’t want to roll into the new deal? Will your debt to income ratio be tight? If so, and you get something cheaper instead, they might be doing you a favor.

If I’m 180 degrees wrong about everything, you can let me know that too.

Actually, we went to the dealership just looking for a suv with third row seating, nothing new but at least the same year of what we were trading in (an 06 trailblazer). We settled on an 06 ford expedition with 75k miles and a clean history. So nothing extravagant, it's a good fit for us since were going to have another baby by august and our main family vehicle just isn't big enough to handle a 10 yr old, a toddler and the upcoming baby's car seat.

We owe 5k less on the trailblazer than it's worth (thats just using the Blue book trade in estimator). We don't use more than 20% of the available balance on our credit cards as a rule. Our credit rating is decent, but not great, some dumb mistakes when we were just married stuck with us until a few years ago, we paid off every bad debt at that time and started sticking to a budget. Our debt to income ratio is only 12% as of my last check.

We looked at van's and larger sedan's but they wouldn't be a good fit for us since we use the towing capacity on our current suv quite often and couldn't really go back, the weather and roads are bad enough during the winter that a heavy vehicle with 4 wheel drive is almost a neccesity anyways (Utah).

My worries with this dealership and my desire to walk away is due to them lying at every step of the way. Saying stuff like "Oh yeah, we got the loan at the rate you wanted" but not being able to say who it's through or asking us to come and sign the loan paperwork. Telling us we owe more on the trailblazer than we disclosed, which isn't true since I called the bank today and verified the pay off amount. These are just a few of the things that are bugging the hell out of me and are leading me to try and find out how to get away from this place.

I just want to be able to walk in with every bit of info I can get so they don't give me some bullshit legal threat or try to do something illegal themselves.

ladyweapon
Nov 6, 2010

It reads all over his face,
like he's an Italian.

my online bank posted:

Credit Card: Current Balance: $0.00

:toot: My (only) credit card is at zero! All current debts are paid off, now I'm just dealing with old debts and collection agencies. Now to develop enough will power to leave it at zero or only purchase things I have enough money in my checking account to pay for. Thanks guys :)

zantar
Jul 30, 2002
My fiance and I are getting married in october, and we are also looking to possibly buy a house before that if the opportunity comes up (it's the one we are renting.)

With a credit score of 735 and her 750, would it make a difference to the lender for us to wait until after the marriage to get a home loan?

zantar fucked around with this message at 18:21 on Jan 8, 2011

slap me silly
Nov 1, 2009
Grimey Drawer

Safety Engineer posted:

My worries with this dealership and my desire to walk away is due to them lying at every step of the way.

Dealer is a slimeball and you should just walk away, unless you are 100% sure you're knowledgeable enough to cover all the angles. At the very minimum, get your loan directly from the bank, sell your old car to CarMax, and then only discuss the sales price with this dealer so he doesn't have 30 ways to gently caress with the numbers.

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big shtick energy
May 27, 2004


slap me silly posted:

Dealer is a slimeball and you should just walk away, unless you are 100% sure you're knowledgeable enough to cover all the angles. At the very minimum, get your loan directly from the bank, sell your old car to CarMax, and then only discuss the sales price with this dealer so he doesn't have 30 ways to gently caress with the numbers.

The dealer plays this game all day, every day. You will not beat them with a bit of internet advice. The smart thing to do is walk away.

Generally, if someone tries to gently caress you on a deal, don't keep negotiating with the idea that you are just so goddamn smart that you'll also catch them if they try to gently caress you again. It's their home turf, they have the advantage, so walk away.

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