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Pope Mobile posted:Yet he gets eaten by a giant sand vagina. You're absolutely right. A character is only ever as good as his death scene. 
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Jan 5, 2011 18:21
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I think the point is that there's barely anything to latch on to with his character, and what little there is turns out to be ineffectual as hell.
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Jan 5, 2011 18:27
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Pope Mobile posted:Yet he gets eaten by a giant sand vagina. Any consensus on the EU handling of this? Are we to assume that Boba Fett dies in the Sarlaac Pit as depicted in Return of the Jedi, or are people willing to accept that Boba Fett finds his way out of the Sarlaac? Assuming that the guide to Boba Fett depicted in the books is true, he has more than enough firepower to cause some damage and potentially be regurgitated. Then again, for all we know a Sarlaac worm is able to digest metal and spaceships easily. Also: Is it true that a subject swallowed by the Sarlaac would actually be digested "over a thousand years" consciously or would they die and merely be subject to a slow digestion?
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Jan 5, 2011 18:30
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Supercar Gautier posted:I think the point is that there's barely anything to latch on to with his character, and what little there is turns out to be ineffectual as hell. Exactly. Boba Fett turns up, makes a few threatening sounding statements, then dies like a punk the first time he goes into action. Never really understood the following he has. Hell, Jango Fett achieves more in the movies than Boba does.
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Jan 5, 2011 18:30
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TheLoquid posted:A lotta I really like how you think. The whole prequel idea is almost coming into shape. That could certainly make a way better story than what we got. Only thing I really don't like is making Dooku loose early in the second chapter. One of the big problems with the prequels is it lacked a strong main villain. Let's call him by his other name of Darth Tyranus instead. That's less silly and more threatening. Bene Elim posted:As spergy, nerdy and fanboyish as it would be I might start working on a treatment and plot outline based on what's been put forward here. I'm not even going to attempt a full script (my writing past description and exposition sucks), but if I get something I'm happy to call an outline done, I'll pass it on to someone else to script. Pretty much, only the OT is cannon, but I would keep any PT and EU things I thought were good ideas. A few EU\PT\Abandoned 80's back story ideas I'd keep: *Obi-Wan and Vader fight, Vader falls into lava. (ROTJ Novel, ROTS) *Owen is Obi-Wan's brother. (ROTJ Novel) *The clones are cloned Mandalorians (Early ESB idea... and technically true in the prequels too) As for the rest, ehh, doesn't matter as much. There are a few little details like the Y-Wing fighters in the movies were actually really old outdated Republic fighters, and Grand Admiral Thrawn once found a fleet of old Dreadnoughts but things like these aren't important to the plot really. Captain von Trapp posted:Because they're a race of Boba Fetts. The same reason why they like Darth Maul. They're shallow and they see someone who looks really cool, that automatically makes them a cool character in their minds. These are the same kind of people who like the prequels. They like style, but don't care about any substance.
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Jan 5, 2011 18:42
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Albu-quirky Guy posted:Yeah sure, I'll get right on that, since I'm sure your opinion is worth so much more than everyone else coming up with ideas better than Lucas can slap down on paper a week before shooting his movies. Hmm yes and what credentials do you have good sir?
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Jan 5, 2011 18:45
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LLJKSiLk posted:Any consensus on the EU handling of this? Are we to assume that Boba Fett dies in the Sarlaac Pit as depicted in Return of the Jedi, or are people willing to accept that Boba Fett finds his way out of the Sarlaac? The EU is utterly retarded about Boba Fett, almost as much as Jorge is. In the EU, Fett not only escapes the Sarlacc, but does it twice (at least). He also has an unexplained grudge against Han Solo, but they settle their differences (in a sort of I ever expected to actually catch you sense). Later he becomes a good guy. Gammatron 64 posted:The same reason why they like Darth Maul. They're shallow and they see someone who looks really cool, that automatically makes them a cool character in their minds. These are the same kind of people who like the prequels. They like style, but don't care about any substance. Wait, so if I care about substance, I'm not allowed to like the style? Or is it that I'm incapable of appreciating the depth and substance of the films if I enjoy them for looking neat? NGL fucked around with this message at 18:50 on Jan 5, 2011 |
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Jan 5, 2011 18:45
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NGL posted:You're absolutely right. A character is only ever as good as his death scene. I'd say it's true in Fett's case, considering the beginning of ROTJ is the most we see of him doing anything. The guy's supposed to be badass, but he gets defeated by a half-blind Han Solo by mistake. "BOBA FAT? BOBA FAT? WHERE?!"
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Jan 5, 2011 19:00
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In your prequel ideas, you might want to include Zahn's idea of early clones being insane because they were grown too quickly. Maybe have a battle where at some point the enemy clones start turning on each other. What should have been a one-sided massacre turns into a narrow victory for the Republic. Hell, I'm a Zahn fanboy, and making sure the dreadnoughts and the Outbound Flight Project were at least mentioned in the movie would be awesome. The Outbound Flight could be a pretty good plot point as it was mentioned that a whole buttload of Jedi were on board.
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Jan 5, 2011 19:02
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^^ From what little of outbound flight I know, while a neat idea, it wouldn't fit too well into a movie unless the movie was based around the event. Sort of like Apollo 13, but with a hundred times more people. And everyone dies.  quote:Why do people like Bobba/Maul so much? More new prequels stuff! Stop reading if you just don't care! So the problem of Anakin having children and him never knowing enough about them to hunt them down. Here's an idea. Padme and Anakin fall for each other and start a secret relationship within the military (I'm making Padme an officer/representative posted with a fleet). Eventually one of them gets re-posted and the currents of war separate them. A month or so later, Padme finds herself pregnant and gets relieved from duty. She now can't contact Anakin and vice-versa (military and all that). Anakin doesn't know about his children. When the Sith hits the fan Yoda tries to help Padme hide from Vader. He helps send Leia to Bail Organa, and sends Padme to find Obi-Wan (then hiding near a volcano) with Luke. Vader tracks them down and attacks Kenobi for <plot reason>. At the end of the battle, Vader is left injured on the edge of the lava, Padme is distrought and is seriously injured trying to rescue him. Obi savers her, but she dies soon after. Obi-Wan takes Luke (who was hidden) to Tatooine, and Vader is saved by Sideous. And finally, Lightsabers! How do they work? Flipping and jumping around is out, as is reverse grip and the seven forms. Fighting will once again be based on Kendo, fencing and rapier fighting with a touch of broadsword. Last thing to decide is how they can be used. 1) Single blades only. 2) Dual wielding in the rapier-and-dagger/katana-wakizashi style. 3) Double ended sabers used like quarter-staffs. 4) Two and three together. Bene Elim fucked around with this message at 20:59 on Jan 5, 2011 |
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Jan 5, 2011 19:45
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Bene Elim posted:Lightsabers! How do they work? #2, with allowances for more esoteric single-blade designs like guard shoto, long-handled lightsabers and lightsaber pikes for ultra-badasses to play with. Throw together some bullshit about how multiple blade emitters in one hilt are loving impossible to make work, and how the goddamn blade can't loving flex no matter how hard you try. No loving double-ended sabers, or lightwhips, or crossguard sabers or any other bullshit like that. One blade emitted per hilt, no exceptions. 
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Jan 5, 2011 20:46
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NGL posted:The EU is utterly retarded about Boba Fett, almost as much as Jorge is. In the EU, Fett not only escapes the Sarlacc, but does it twice (at least). He also has an unexplained grudge against Han Solo, but they settle their differences (in a sort of I ever expected to actually catch you sense). Later he becomes a good guy. No, not at all. I didn't word that properly. I love some of the most critically acclaimed films ever such as Citizen Kane and the Kurosawa films, but I also enjoy Tron. Both Trons are pretty stupid and not objectively good films, but I enjoy them for their interesting visuals. I like different movies for different things, you like different movies for different things. And that's good! However a lot of people are like that - they like shinny things and don't care about depth and substance, I know plenty. Not necessarily saying you are, however. I've met people who say the Rob Zombie remake of Halloween is superior to the original because "Micheal Myers totally rips a guy's face off!" and that the Star Wars prequels are better because the "the effects are awesome and the old ones look lame and boring." and that Michael Bay is a genius director. These kinds of people tend to adore characters like Darth Maul, Boba Fett, the Matrix sequels, Dragon Ball Z, Final Fantasy VII... Boba Fett looks really, really cool. I love his costume design and his voice. But I don't love him as a character as he has none. Darth Maul is also cool looking, but has even less character than Fett. I simply recognize that Fett is a cool costume, not a cool character. NGL posted:Lightsabers! How do they work? My personal opinion, #1. I don't really want videogame-esque excesses. With the prequel fights, it's all somewhat gimmicky, and they keep trying to up the ante with gimmicks. It's a lot of one-upmanship. In the first, you have Darth Maul with his lightstaff. In the second, you have Yoda flipping around like Sonic the Hedgehog. In the third, you have General Grievous with four arms, each with a lightsaber, spinning them around like buzzsaws. Also, people fight with lightsabers so much, and use over the top force powers so much, it isn't a big deal. When there is a lightsaber fight in the originals, it's a big deal. When Yoda lifts the X-Wing in Empire, it's a big deal. When Yoda lifts massive bolders and flings Senate seats, it isn't, and diminishes the awe-inspiring nature of the Force. Same with the Emperor shooing lightening in Jedi, then watching people casually shoot lightening like it's nothing. When it comes to lightsaber fights, I really prefer what we saw in Empire and Jedi, especially Empire. Empire focuses on the suspense and tension. We care for Luke and want him to win, but he is up against a seemingly unstoppable foe who is barely putting any effort into fighting him. In A New Hope, the space battle at the end has much less going on in it than any of the ones in the prequels, but it is far more intense as there is a real risk that our heroes will fail, and we care. In the prequels, we don't care, and there is so much poo poo on the screen, and things are going so fast, it's hard to even tell what's going on. Rather than be on the edge of my seat, I'm bored. GET IN THE ROBOT fucked around with this message at 21:07 on Jan 5, 2011 |
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Jan 5, 2011 20:57
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Gammatron 64 posted:No, not at all. I didn't word that properly. I love some of the most critically acclaimed films ever such as Citizen Kane and the Kurosawa films, but I also enjoy Tron. Both Trons are pretty stupid and not objectively good films, but I enjoy them for their interesting visuals. Ohh, ok. I get what you're saying. I just find it a little absurd that appreciating some things just because they look neat renders an individual shallow. I've always been a big fan of Boba Fett, due largely to the fact that his was the coolest figure. Rose-tinted nostalgia and cool toys go a long way for some of us, I guess. (I have an embarrassingly large Star Wars collection. with lots of Boba Fett because he's cool and Jar Jar because he's not.) (Also, Star Wars and G.I. Joe toys were the only part of childhood I enjoyed.)
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Jan 5, 2011 21:11
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Bene Elim posted:^^ From what little of outbound flight I know, while a neat idea, it wouldn't fit too well into a movie unless the movie was based around the event. Sort of like Apollo 13, but with a hundred times more people. It could just be a quick mention. Sort of a "Our numbers are severely depleted because of the Outbound Flight project" Then Padme or whoever would ask what that was, then Obi-wan gives a quick explanation. It'd serve as a convenient "why there aren't that many jedi around" plot point. Edit: It'd also give a good point of contention for Palpatine to use against the Jedi. Something about how they deserted en-masse just before hostilities heated up. Or something about them being so out of touch with the real world that they felt the best use of their time was to go explore outside the galaxy. NeonTurtle fucked around with this message at 21:33 on Jan 5, 2011 |
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Jan 5, 2011 21:29
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Kemper Boyd posted:I've something like five times tried to read up on Mandalorians on Wookiepedia to get what's the big deal with them and why anyone cares and my eyes just kinda glaze over. They were pretty cool dudes in the KOTOR games.
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Jan 5, 2011 21:41
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I always thought of Mandalorians as a society of PMC's like the other guy said. I mean, it made sense as to why someone like Boba Fett, a mercenary himself, would use their armor or take up their old "ways." If I recall, since it's been a while since I've played KOTOR, the mandalorians depicted there didn't conflict with this view either. They just happened to have typical military barracks shenanigans and "duels of honor" where they'd try to outmacho each other. Bene Elim posted:And finally, Lightsabers! How do they work? #3 doesn't work and is why darth maul is dumb. The whole point of fighting with a bo, at least how I was taught, is that you always have a hand at one end while you have the other a foot or two upwards. The whole point of a quarterstaff is to maximize the amount of force you put behind your swing or use the extra distance to stab, neither of which requires a second blade. 
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Jan 5, 2011 21:51
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Doctor Reynolds posted:They were pretty cool dudes in the KOTOR games. gently caress Travis, they were a pretty simplistic warrior race kind of dudes yeah then she swanned in and pretty much ran that poo poo into the ground with her creepy fantasies.
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Jan 5, 2011 21:59
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RagnarokAngel posted:Hmm yes and what credentials do you have good sir? Absolutely none, same as you. Does that mean none of us are allowed to try and "fix" Star Wars (at least in our own minds) since Lucas no longer gives a drat about coherent dialogue, character development, pacing or continuity? Bene Elim posted:And finally, Lightsabers! How do they work? I'm tempted to say just 1 and maybe 2 in limited circumstances at this point. Lightsabers are probably a little too dangerous to be held reverse-blade style (dagger or wakizashi) because if you misjudge a block, whoops there goes your forearm, good luck learning to be a one-armed Jedi. Same for double-ended sabers, you lose control of your swing and either reach too far off the handle (vaporizing your fingers) or pull the blade too hard and decapitate yourself. Stick to teaching padawans single blades and only teach them dual wield if they've got the skill to not kill themselves doing it. Edit: okay I just noticed you said no reverse grip, which makes dual wield a more manageable option. I'd still say majority of Jedi single wield. Albu-quirky Guy fucked around with this message at 23:22 on Jan 5, 2011 |
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Jan 5, 2011 23:18
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Well, videogames and some books aside there have really only been two major Jedi that used double bladed lightsabers and both of those were fairly different from each other. As much as it's shoehorned in we don't have a lot of reason for that style to be common at all since IIRC both of the dual bladed lightsabers that are famous are custom made weapons with different fighting styles. Darth Mauls style is very much based on two things: A) being able to fight two or more opponents at one time, which is fairly smart considering the Jedi to Sith ration at the time he lived. and B) To take advantage of his martial arts skills, where having to watch where his feet are (since they are viable weapons) in addition to keeping track of two blades is a large advantage. Would he better be served with having two normal lightsabers? Yes, but that doesn't look as cool, and lets be honest here, Ray Park is really loving short and two lightsabers would look super awkward on him and they don't look as cool when he flips and handsprings. Exar Kun's style was based around taking people by surprise, hence his dual blade being the same length as a normal lightsaber and having variable blade settings. And the only reason he's really good with it is because he's (suggested to be) the best lightsaber wielder in his time period and demonstrates a mastery of ALL the major styles (that were around when the comic was written). So my point is I think you can discount dual blades entirely as a niche weapon that's used only by people who are exceptional at all forms of lightsaber combat. As opposed to the fencing style of saber used by Dooku and Ventress which shouldn't exist at all for a very good reason, there style of fighting would be far superior to the normal jedi style in almost every way (which means that the books/films have to compensate for it in stupid ways). This is the same issue with the whole thing about Grievous using four lightsabers, which would also be pretty impossible to fight if you were a normal Jedi (which is I guess how he killed a bunch of them, and why he's such a badass in Clone Wars).
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Jan 6, 2011 01:21
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I still enjoy the original trilogies later lightsaber fights as they not only were more realistic when it came down to two dudes trying to cut each other with swords it was much more dramatic too.
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Jan 6, 2011 01:37
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SeanBeansShako posted:I still enjoy the original trilogies later lightsaber fights as they not only were more realistic when it came down to two dudes trying to cut each other with swords it was much more dramatic too. Well, lightsabers aren't realistic to begin with, but treating them like they're big heavy broadswords definitely makes them more realistic. For many reasons, Darth Maul's light quarterstaff is stupid. A light polearm wouldn't be that terrible, though. Have a big stick with a little lightsaber blade at the end. Better than like... light-tonfas and light-Wolverine claws. Yeah, I'm pretty sure they have those.
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Jan 6, 2011 02:13
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Gammatron 64 posted:Well, lightsabers aren't realistic to begin with, but treating them like they're big heavy broadswords definitely makes them more realistic. Lightsaber polearm? Check. Lightsaber tonfa? Check, though considering the short blade length and how it's basically a regular shoto with an extra handle on it I fail to fully understand your objection. Lightsaber claws? Pretty sure those don't exist anywhere in the EU, but I could be wrong.
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Jan 6, 2011 03:15
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30 Second Artbomb posted:Lightsaber claws? Pretty sure those don't exist anywhere in the EU, but I could be wrong. T-minus 5, 4, 3...
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Jan 6, 2011 03:34
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deadhoarse posted:T-minus 5, 4, 3... 
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Jan 6, 2011 04:46
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It's like poetry.
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Jan 6, 2011 04:53
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NGL posted:Plus, he's super mysterious and doesn't take poo poo from no one. What the gently caress are you talking about, Vader pushes him around all the time. No disintegrations. *disappointed finger shaking*
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Jan 6, 2011 05:27
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Mad Hamish posted:What the gently caress are you talking about, Vader pushes him around all the time. The most terrifying man in the galaxy; a man who rewards the smallest failure with a slow death; is personally admonishing him, and he's all "fine, whatever". Honestly, those two lines of dialogue are probably the whole reason he has a fanbase at all.
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Jan 6, 2011 06:42
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LLJKSiLk posted:I want to find the person responsible for this and stab them with a duck. Is this feeling normal?
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Jan 6, 2011 06:52
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Y'know, Darth Maul's weapon could be really cool if it had one more feature--or possibly two closely connected ones: a lightning-fast on and off switch, and either the wielder would train to turn it on and off or it'd automatically turn on and off right as he's, say, swinging it at himself. Picture it whirling like a baton, with the blade coming at his face, then flickering just at the right moment, and then it's coming at yours. Heck, you could even have it be used to flicker through an opponent's blade when they're trying to guard. It'd make the weapon feel a little more scary and well suited to any visual media, especially movies or cartoons. RedLetterMedia's got some serious and good points on when lightsabers should be used, too, of course, but given there's a lightsaber coming out, I'd like to see it making as much sense as possible in setting. Nothing can save the lightwhip.
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Jan 6, 2011 07:08
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30 Second Artbomb posted:I want to find the person responsible for this and stab them with a duck. Sure hope that wasn't a typo.
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Jan 6, 2011 07:13
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Mister Roboto posted:Sure hope that wasn't a typo. ...a weapon, of his own design of course, that would offer a true challenge: a duck.
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Jan 6, 2011 07:33
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30 Second Artbomb posted:Lightsaber tonfa? Check, though considering the short blade length and how it's basically a regular shoto with an extra handle on it I fail to fully understand your objection. Uh, well, see that second picture? That's pretty much the same objection we have to the dual wield reverse grip. Basically, Brandon Sanderson has the perfect description of how lightsabers would have to be used in practical combat--the Shardblades in The Way of Kings have nearly the same properties in terms of care and use. VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE fucked around with this message at 07:45 on Jan 6, 2011 |
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Jan 6, 2011 07:38
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Chaos Hippy posted:The most terrifying man in the galaxy; a man who rewards the smallest failure with a slow death; is personally admonishing him, and he's all "fine, whatever". Honestly, those two lines of dialogue are probably the whole reason he has a fanbase at all. This is correct and why I used to not be ashamed of loving Boba Fett. Now that Traviss and Clone-mania have ruined everything for everyone I just get upset when I look at my Boba Fett bobble head and Boba Fett statuette because I am a Cool Guy.
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Jan 6, 2011 07:51
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LLJKSiLk posted:That... doesn't even make sense. Even after getting over the initial ridiculousness, it doesn't seem like those claws would work whatsoever in a fight against someone with a normal lightsaber. I mean, how does he even defend himself? Is he going to parry a lightsaber with that thing? All the other person would have to do was slide the lightsaber two inches toward him and, whoops, there go all his fingers! There's just so many questions. I think I've hurt my brain.
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Jan 6, 2011 08:05
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LLJKSiLk posted:The worst part of this isn't the lightsaber claws but that he lost an arm to a Wookie playing Holochess. Really? I'm pretty sure that line was supposed to be an exaggeration.
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Jan 6, 2011 12:52
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30 Second Artbomb posted:I want to find the person responsible for this and stab them with a duck.
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Jan 6, 2011 13:01
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LLJKSiLk posted:I'm going to make it official Project: Good Prequals is chucking out ALL EU material. We may lose good stuff like KotOR or Thrawn, but at least we'll avoid poo poo like this. 30 Second Artbomb posted:I want to find the person responsible for this and stab them with a duck. Is this feeling normal? ZeeToo posted:Y'know, Darth Maul's weapon could be really cool if it had one more feature--or possibly two closely connected ones: a lightning-fast on and off switch, and either the wielder would train to turn it on and off or it'd automatically turn on and off right as he's, say, swinging it at himself. Bene Elim fucked around with this message at 20:07 on Jan 6, 2011 |
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Jan 6, 2011 13:08
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I laughed so hard at the lightsaber claws sequence up there. If ever you needed an example of EU oneupmanship I'd suggest pointing the subject in that direction. They're trying so hard for cool that they've completely forgotten about the utility of the concept. See also: the Prequels.
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Jan 6, 2011 13:10
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DorianGravy posted:All the other person would have to do was slide the lightsaber two inches toward him and, whoops, there go all his fingers! Turns out in the EU there are lots of things that resist lightsabers. Cortosis (can short out the lightsaber), Phrik (Electrostaffs in Episode 3, Dark Trooper Armor), Darkswords, Armorweave, Sith Alchemy, Force Weapons (so just imbue a spork with the force and use it), MANDALORIAN iron. That and I think that the picture is just fan faction, I don't think it actually exists in the EU. Instead of lightsabers I think characters would be better off using some sort of weapon that conveys energy to the target via electromagnetic radiation, heck maybe even set it up so it works on a spectrum that the native population can't see. The enemy would just see them point the weapon and BAM death, imagine the demoralizing aspect, you just look over at your fellow alien friend and poof he is dead, no real noise from the weapon just death. I don't know what to name a device that would primarily work by amplifying light through stimulated emissions of radiation though. Wouldn't take out people in cover though, I guess you would have to have explosives. Maybe they could even use the power from splitting atoms to destroy massive areas. Sure would beat running up to everyone and hacking their arms off, it would just be more civilized. AcridWhistle fucked around with this message at 13:55 on Jan 6, 2011 |
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Jan 6, 2011 13:43
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What's a duck?
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Jan 6, 2011 14:54
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