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For most purposes, high grades > the identity of which T14 you happen to be at. If you continue getting great grades at Cornell, you might be better off staying and having a decent shot at magna/Coif or whatever Cornell has. Also you would have a good shot at getting onto the law review, which you might not be able to do at a new school (for whatever that is worth). Not to mention maybe Cornell will offer you scholarship money to stay. Transferring has its advantages of course, but transferring from a lower T14 to a higher T14 is considered especially douchey and mercenary. Going to HYS, OK I can see the prestige-bump aspect, but something like Columbia? Probably not worth it. Linguica fucked around with this message at 01:42 on Jan 10, 2011 |
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Jan 10, 2011 01:34
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Linguica posted:Not to mention maybe Cornell will offer you scholarship money to stay. I'd heard about this, and asked some of the law review 2Ls and such, and was told that Cornell doesn't really do this.
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Jan 10, 2011 02:05
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Abugadu posted:Or, how about going all Cali, and not making law school mandatory? It's getting obvious that you can learn in one summer all you need to know, and you learn more in the first 6 months on the job than you ever would over the three years, so save law school for those who are going for the extra training in specialized areas. The practice of learning the law on the job, rather than in a law school, was the traditional approach in the Commonwealth for a long time. It still exists to varying extents in the form of 'articling' requirements or 'articled clerkships'. I know here in Ontario, before the 50s, law school was done part time while the students were concurrently working at a law firm. You'd have a class at 9, then you would go to work at a law firm from 10 to 3, and then you would return for a class at 4. I guess this particular arrangement relied on the only law school in Ontario being in downtown Toronto near all of the firms, but the idea could be applied in a variety of forms elsewhere. In the 50s the law professors forced the Law Society to adopt American style legal education, for whatever reason. The British system is still a complex system of on the the job training and a series of mandatory examinations. It would seem to act as a more effective limitation on the number of lawyers entering the market, since you could only train and license the number of lawyers that firms were willing to hire.
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Jan 10, 2011 02:35
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Lilosh posted:How far down the chain is it worth it? I mean, I'll throw transfer apps at HYS, and maybe Columbia. But should I also apply to CCN? It seems like it wouldn't be worth it to go up a few rankings (Duke, Northwestern, I'm talking to you), but I've even heard people talk about it wouldn't be worth jumping ship for anything short of HYS. Go for Yale if you continue to do really well and don't think you would risk alienating potentially useful faculty members whose classes you've done well in by asking them for transfer recommendation letters. Harvard and Stanford, sure, go for it I guess. As for Columbia, don't bother. Despite having come from a school straddling the fence between T1 and T2, I genuinely regret the decision to transfer for a multitude of reasons. If I were in your position, I wouldn't transfer for anything less than Yale, and honestly, that is vanishingly unlikely to happen anyway. Your best bet is probably to stay where you are, make law review, suck up to profs whose classes you did really well in and see if they can help you come job time, especially if you aren't looking for a firm job and they're important people in whatever field you're trying to break into.
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Jan 10, 2011 02:53
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I'd definitely, 100% transfer to HY and probably S. CCN, not so much. Right now you're getting a job, which is not guaranteed for a CCN transfer.
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Jan 10, 2011 02:59
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Adar posted:which is not guaranteed for a CCN transfer. At the moment it's a coin toss for a CCN transfer (assuming you mean big firms/OCI), if that. It might be better in a year, but why bet on that?
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Jan 10, 2011 03:05
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Solomon Grundy posted:Without suggesting copyright infringement, I will just observe that you can make your own computer-based fillable forms with a scanner, a copy of Adobe Acrobat 8 or better, and a couple of hours of time. The only thing about that is it lacks the carbon copies, which seems to be something all the old farts in the office get in a tizzy about. This is coming from an office where two of the partners still make their secretaries do all their scheduling on paper. Which is great job security, I guess.
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Jan 10, 2011 04:31
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prussian advisor posted:At the moment it's a coin toss for a CCN transfer (assuming you mean big firms/OCI), if that. It might be better in a year, but why bet on that? You know, this is something I never learned and am vaguely curious about. If you transfer from someplace like Cornell to CCN (still implying you were top 10%), do employers give you more credit than if you transfer from, say, Fordham?
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Jan 10, 2011 04:39
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Adar posted:You know, this is something I never learned and am vaguely curious about. If you transfer from someplace like Cornell to CCN (still implying you were top 10%), do employers give you more credit than if you transfer from, say, Fordham? I've wondered about this myself. There were a couple people in my transfer class who transferred from other T14s, but I never got to know any of them so I have no idea.
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Jan 10, 2011 04:43
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Don't do it unless you can get Harvard or Yale. And definitely don't do it for Columbia.
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Jan 10, 2011 05:16
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Got back from vacation yesterday, came in this morning, and found that my firm's office has been burglarized. Drawers and cabinets open and in disarray, my boss's laptop stolen, and they took our nice big television screen in the conference room. My first thought on realizing that our office had been burglarized: "Where are the client files?" They're all safe, thank god, and our server is also still here. I hate criminals 
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Jan 10, 2011 16:34
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Elotana posted:There's got to be some goon somewhere who works in periodical writing and could interview Linguica or someone marginally sympathetic instead of some 4TT alumnus with the IQ of a parsnip who openly admits to gaming his student loans Anyone smart enough to be worth interviewing is smart enough to not talk to the NYTimes.
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Jan 10, 2011 16:47
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Lilosh posted:So what's the general outlook on transferring from the Lower T14 up to the top? this is probably the best time to transfer to Fordham
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Jan 10, 2011 18:41
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Adar posted:You know, this is something I never learned and am vaguely curious about. If you transfer from someplace like Cornell to CCN (still implying you were top 10%), do employers give you more credit than if you transfer from, say, Fordham? Of course, at least at my firm. Also, and I'm sure most people realize this and most firms are the same, we don't see a transfer student as being on the same level as someone who started at the school as a 1L.
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Jan 10, 2011 19:44
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commish posted:Of course, at least at my firm. Also, and I'm sure most people realize this and most firms are the same, we don't see a transfer student as being on the same level as someone who started at the school as a 1L.
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Jan 10, 2011 19:56
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Lilosh, you should just transfer down if you don't get into HY.
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Jan 10, 2011 21:13
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As I watch the locksmiths install new locks, I can't help but think that their job looks better than mine. They get to work with tools, travel around to different offices, and I'm sure there's always a market for a good locksmith.
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Jan 10, 2011 21:19
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commish posted:we don't see a transfer student as being on the same level as someone who started at the school as a 1L. "sorry, we think you're only attending this law school because you were a successful law student who demonstrated mastery of legal concepts. our law firm is looking for candidates who are attending this law school because they did well in some arbitrary undergraduate major and/or did well on an arbitrary examination." Linguica fucked around with this message at 21:55 on Jan 10, 2011 |
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Jan 10, 2011 21:44
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Lawyers are prestige whores at the expense of all rationality? You don't say
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Jan 10, 2011 21:59
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Phil Moscowitz posted:Lawyers are prestige whores at the expense of all rationality? You don't say T14 my TTT rear end
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Jan 10, 2011 22:30
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This was posted on another forum which I believe they got from another forum...quote:Why don't contract attorneys "hang out a shingle."
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Jan 11, 2011 01:14
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haha that guy is a loser
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Jan 11, 2011 01:36
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Lilosh - If you do awesome again, throw an app to Yale. Throw an app to H or S if you want to live around there. Otherwise don't. FWIW there are six (I was surprised too) Cornell transfers at Boalt this year and all of them did well, so not to poo poo on your parade but transferring is still a crapshoot no matter where you're at. I dig my school but I would not transfer here in your situation unless I absolutely loathed Ithica. Speaking of Berk, the first floor renovation finally finished today and it's actually really nice on the inside now. Still a complete warzone in the front. And our Dean sent out a big letter talking about financial problems with UCs and how the next couple months will basically determine if we stay competitive with NYU and Chicago (named schools in his letter, which was kind of interesting to me) for faculty salary or start sliding down the T14.
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Jan 11, 2011 02:44
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I think Scott Bullock wrote that. People can make tons of excuses why they'll fail but I know a lot of solos that are doing very well for themselves. He's mostly right about family law though. They're my worst clients in the sense that they always complain about the fees and spend endless amounts of time bitching about their spouse. The money is still decent though. In my last uncontested divorce I was able to make $3,500.
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Jan 11, 2011 02:51
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Any in-house counsel in this thread?
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Jan 11, 2011 03:33
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Forever Zero posted:This was posted on another forum which I believe they got from another forum... I can tell that guy has no idea how to run a business. Edit: That said his point discouraging TTT degrees is solid. Roger_Mudd fucked around with this message at 04:56 on Jan 11, 2011 |
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Jan 11, 2011 04:38
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poofactory posted:I think Scott Bullock wrote that. People can make tons of excuses why they'll fail but I know a lot of solos that are doing very well for themselves. Holy poo poo, where is the land of milk and honey were people will drop $3500 on an uncontested divorce? In my experience, if it's a hotly contested divorce with kids, then somebody (normally the kid's grandparents) is going to come up with the money. The only thing that makes a client more irrational than a spousal property dispute is a custody dispute. Of course, the first thing you learn when you practice family law is it's never ultimately about the property or the kids, it's about sticking it to the ex. Thank God I don't have to do family law anymore.
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Jan 11, 2011 08:27
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You know I'm really starting to wonder why nobody has decided to document vocational problems in the legal world and write or otherwise produce a news report about the horrible plight of the legal economy that both a.) doesn't use fourth grade potty language to express the point and b.) doesn't interview total skeez losers or overt retards to provide anecdotal backing for the story. Some things discussed in that shingle-hanger article seemed pretty rational, but had I rolled up on that as a junior in college I would have assumed that somebody was Mad on the Internet or merely being an elitist prick by using terms like SHITLAW!!! and "bimbo GED realtor." This doesn't project an air of authority which is pretty necessary when attempting to defuse the myth of "law=prosperity," which was tremendously strongly ingrained in my middle class upbringing. This thread does better but still suffers from the inherent problem that it's just a bunch of dudes on the internet - tough to take that advice seriously, and even tougher to pass along to a parent or a friend who thinks law school is just the poo poo and can't wait to have me go and maybe to go themselves later on. On the other hand in the NYTimes article, the form was proper, but the subject was a tardlord moron for reasons that have already been discussed. This made it hard to relate to because people never think that they're the moron even when they are. I never would have dreamed of putting a down payment on a swank pad with government educational loans when I didn't have a job lined up, so had I been a kid weighing the advice against the backdrop of the larger issue of whether or not to attend law school, I could have kind of driven a stake between his story and my own and found a reason to think I could do better. There are some anecdotes of similarly crippled futures from presumably sensible kids within that article, but they don't flesh out a personal story well enough to make anybody sit up and take note. There's also the guy on the front page of this thread taking the recycling to the scrap man, but even he had a ridiculous Lamborghini future dream that I have never been foolish enough to trick myself with. I guess what I'm saying is that I wish a highly reputable news source would take up this story with somebody like Linguica as the focus. Normal, sociable human who attended one of the T-14 schools and was on loving law review but had extreme difficulty finding any legal job - that's a profile that would have made me stand up and take note as a college kid.
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Jan 11, 2011 08:49
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Any goon attorneys: What goals would you like to achieve in the next 5 years?
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Jan 11, 2011 08:51
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Lilosh posted:So what's the general outlook on transferring from the Lower T14 up to the top? Top of your class at Cornell = a job. Transferring = everyone will think you're a douche, you'll have a hard time starting over, will lose all your friends. Will get exactly the same job but will have microscopically better chances at academia. E: If you get into Yale. Napoleon I fucked around with this message at 13:07 on Jan 11, 2011 |
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Jan 11, 2011 13:04
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GamingHyena posted:Holy poo poo, where is the land of milk and honey were people will drop $3500 on an uncontested divorce? My theory is that people expect to pay a lot of money to hire a lawyer so I do my best not to disappoint them. The $3,500 example was a bit of an extreme example though. My base rate for an uncontested divorce is $2,000. I have no idea where they get the money but suspect the fact that I accept credit cards makes it easier for them to pay.
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Jan 11, 2011 15:02
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poofactory posted:My theory is that people expect to pay a lot of money to hire a lawyer so I do my best not to disappoint them. The $3,500 example was a bit of an extreme example though. My base rate for an uncontested divorce is $2,000. I have no idea where they get the money but suspect the fact that I accept credit cards makes it easier for them to pay. That is loving criminal.
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Jan 11, 2011 15:58
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Feces Starship posted:I guess what I'm saying is that I wish a highly reputable news source would take up this story with somebody like Linguica as the focus. Normal, sociable human who attended one of the T-14 schools and was on loving law review but had extreme difficulty finding any legal job - that's a profile that would have made me stand up and take note as a college kid. How many people like Linguica are willing to risk going down in flames to tell their story? Doing anything of the sort invites all the "bootstrap" trolls to harass you incessantly. Based on the responses most students give in any given law school lecture, I'd say that Wallerstein is the cookie cutter representative of the "I don't know what to do with my English degree" law student body. He is the mirror image of all of the study abroad, bottom 50% group of students.
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Jan 11, 2011 15:58
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Stunt Rock posted:That is loving criminal. Aside from the guys advertising $250 in the yellow pages/back of the reader, $2k is market price.
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Jan 11, 2011 17:00
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A solo prac. over in the cottage country here (about 2 hours outside of town) is looking for an articling student to groom and hand his practice off to. He basically services all of the little villages/cottages/farms in the area. Any of y'all know more about practicing in a smaller-than-small town environment like this? The bulk of his work is real estate, with a smattering of the usual estates/family/etc stuff. I have absolutely no interest in that type of work, but I *do* have an interest in peace and quiet and working out of a canoe.
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Jan 11, 2011 17:14
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Doppelganger posted:Any goon attorneys: I want things to remain exactly as they are, because any change brings risk, and I don't like risk.
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Jan 11, 2011 17:18
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Doppelganger posted:Any goon attorneys: Pay off debt.
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Jan 11, 2011 17:21
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Doppelganger posted:Any goon attorneys: I'd like to experience falling asleep without getting drunk first.
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Jan 11, 2011 17:21
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Doppelganger posted:Any goon attorneys: Pay off debt, maybe go do something else.
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Jan 11, 2011 17:22
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Doppelganger posted:Any goon attorneys: Continue not practicing law while getting paid for not practicing law.
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Jan 11, 2011 17:25
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