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CmdrSmirnoff posted:A solo prac. over in the cottage country here (about 2 hours outside of town) is looking for an articling student to groom and hand his practice off to. He basically services all of the little villages/cottages/farms in the area.
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Jan 11, 2011 17:46
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Doppelganger posted:Any goon attorneys: Develop some of my own clients who would follow me if I moved to another firm or went out on my own.
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Jan 11, 2011 17:50
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Welp got a bunch more loving A's not that it matters or will get me a job. Seriously grilled my friend last night about how hard it was to get a job working for the railroad in Michigan's Upper Peninsula.
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Jan 11, 2011 17:54
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poofactory posted:Aside from the guys advertising $250 in the yellow pages/back of the reader, $2k is market price. Market price here for an uncontested without kids is $500. Market price for an uncontested with kids is $1000. They're seriously the easiest things ever to do and take all of about two hours of time at most.
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Jan 11, 2011 17:57
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Stunt Rock posted:Market price here for an uncontested without kids is $500. Market price for an uncontested with kids is $1000. They're seriously the easiest things ever to do and take all of about two hours of time at most. Wouldn't market price vary by... market?
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Jan 11, 2011 19:13
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Can I ask about finding gainful employment as a lawyer? I'm in my third year, with one semester to go, and I honestly have no idea where I'm going to end up or how to get there. I have no idea what kind of law I want to end up in, but I'm not particularly discriminating at this point - a job is a job, and I need to secure something for after graduation. I've done a bit of intern work; two summers for a local, smaller law firm and one summer interning for a NJ Superior Court judge in the family division. The job placement office at my law school is pretty unhelpful if you're not in the top 10% of your class. I am, unfortunately, around the middle of the class, and so the only real 'jobs' they've been able to dig up for me are trivial things like paid research positions for a professor for the summer following my graduation. The handful of smaller law offices local to me have flat-out told me that they're not interested in hiring anyone in any capacity, even before I could give them a resume. This was particularly disappointing at the local firm I've interned for twice, since I am on very good terms with them and always sort've expected I'd end up with a job there after graduation, but they're downsizing a lot and apparently not doing so well. I'm not averse to working in a bigger firm at all, but I get the impression that those jobs are exponentially more competitive because of the attendant higher salary. Truthfully, I don't even know where to begin to try and make inroads with them. My hunch right now is to go talk to some of the connections I've made at the courthouse and see if I could possibly secure a clerkship for the judge that I interned for earlier. That might pan out, but clerking always seemed like such a bitch job, at least in family division where I was. Is clerking actually worth it in the long run? It feels crazy to me to spend 40 grand a year on law school just to graduate and get a job earning, well, 40 grand a year, but the rationale I constantly hear for it is that it's prestigious and will help you secure more gainful employment down the road. Any general advice?
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Jan 11, 2011 20:06
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JamSessionEin posted:Can I ask about finding gainful employment as a lawyer? Umm...I hate to tell you this but clerking isn't really an EASIER job to get than working for small law offices. Judges hire clerks early, I would get on that if you want to do it.
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Jan 11, 2011 20:11
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If you have connections with any of the judges in your local courthouse, yes you should try to work them for a clerkship. It may not pay a lot, but it's worlds and worlds better than A) not working at all or B) working as a contract attorney or C) working in a nonlegal capacity. Local clerkships aren't nearly as competitive as higher level clerkships, but they are still very competitive, so don't expect to just apply and get one. You'll need to network with any courthouse contacts you have. Small/local firm hiring is primarily through networking - attend local bar functions / brown bag luncheons / free lectures, etc. Make contacts. If the only thing you can get is a paid research position with a professor, you should seriously consider that. It's something involving legal skills, at least.
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Jan 11, 2011 20:24
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JamSessionEin posted:Can I ask about finding gainful employment as a lawyer? For the purposes of this reply I'm going to assume this isn't a troll. Given that this is your first and only post on the whole forums, you either just now discovered this thread (probably from referral from Above the Law or something), or you are ainsley's parachute account. That being said, god do I ever hope this post is a troll. First, what law school do you go to? You mention NJ, so I assume is some lovely law school in NJ. Perhaps one of the two Rutgers schools. If you are in the middle of your class at a lovely law school, then your chances of getting a job are very small. Second, if you are halfway through your third year without a job, then you will almost definitely not have a job when you graduate, which means you will almost definitely not have a job when you take the bar (and since you were dumb enough to go to a lovely law school in the "middle of the pack" you probably won't pass the bar, add six more months of unemployment at a minimum). Third, when you eventually pass the bar, you will spend a year looking for legal work then start praying for some white collar accounting gig in a cubicle farm. After a second year of applying for literally every job from Pope to Barista, you will finally get something that pays $41k, but it has health insurance so that's cool. Fourth, let's get back to the present. You mention that you want to "use your connections at the court house" and get a "bitch" job clerking for a state judge. 4(a), clerks have jobs and you don't. Also, I don't know how it is in NJ, but clerks where I work have a 100% placement rate after their clerkship. Usually in cushy government jobs, but some superior court clerks move up to the supreme court, and they get the good poo poo. Clerking is, like, the best job on the planet. 4(b), good luck finding a judge that hasn't hired yet. If you do find one that hasn't hired yet, you need to apply right now, and convince the judge you worked for to call that judge up and tell him to hire you. I would say "don't put all your eggs in one basket," but this is literally the only basket you have. You should be desperate. Fifth, the fact that you have put literally zero thought into your post-law school life tells us just about everything we need to know about your job prospects, your desire to be a lawyer, your future in the field of law, and how big of a mistake it was that you went to law school. Sixth, that was the first time I've ever seen the word "sort've." Also, you can't "sort've expect to fall backwards into your backup job which you are willing to settle for I guess." Even if they are (were) hiring, you need to (should have) literally fight (fought) tooth and nail for that job. BigHead fucked around with this message at 22:25 on Jan 11, 2011 |
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Jan 11, 2011 20:34
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The first line of his post was pretty funny, as if the first 227 pages of the thread weren't about everyone desperately trying to find jobs.
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Jan 11, 2011 21:19
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JamSessionEin posted:Can I ask about finding gainful employment as a lawyer? Yeah, I am assuming this is a troll post. I hope so 
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Jan 11, 2011 21:48
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JamSessionEin posted:My hunch right now is to go talk to some of the connections I've made at the courthouse and see if I could possibly secure a clerkship for the judge that I interned for earlier. That might pan out, but clerking always seemed like such a bitch job, at least in family division where I was. Is clerking actually worth it in the long run? It feels crazy to me to spend 40 grand a year on law school just to graduate and get a job earning, well, 40 grand a year, but the rationale I constantly hear for it is that it's prestigious and will help you secure more gainful employment down the road. Read the New York Times article mentioned a few pages back. Wallerstein is a very good example of what awaits law school graduates not figuring out their employment. Also, as a 3L you should cast aside any thoughts/dreams/online posts about big law firms hiring you. You were excluded from that line of work 1.5 years ago.
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Jan 11, 2011 22:04
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BigHead posted:
The good news is that NJ has an extremely easy bar exam, so the above scenario is unlikely. If you don't pass the first time in NJ, you're probably too dumb to ever pass. Also, if you're at Seton Hall or Rutgers-Newark, make sure you take the NY exam as well. If you're at Rutgers-Camden, take PA. Obvious, the north Jersey schools feed mainly into NYC and Rutgers-Camden to Philadelphia. As the above poster said, you should be doing everything in your power to get a clerkship, because most firms that are going to hire for the incoming class already have at this point in the recruiting season. The rest will be waiting until after the bar results come out in the fall (not that there are all that many hiring at that point, either). The good news is that the NJ schools were at least somewhat competitive placing students in state level clerkships as of a couple of years ago when I graduated - the bad news is that most judges have already hired by this point in the year. I know how you feel - I did well (good GPA, but no law review or other academic distinctions) at one of the above mentioned lovely New Jersey law schools and also didn't have a job lined up as a 3L (turns out that summer intership is sorta important and you should probably find a way to do it, even if you're working full time!). I didn't realize how desperate my situation was until about March of my final year. I ended up getting a job offer with a firm about three weeks before the bar exam, which I now realize was a one in a million shot - I think I was probably the last one to get hired out of my class before the bottom fell out of the profession. At this point, you need to be busting your rear end to apply for any and every job that's listed. Your situation is not entirely hopeless - I am living proof of that - but it's pretty drat close. NJ Deac fucked around with this message at 22:50 on Jan 11, 2011 |
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Jan 11, 2011 22:47
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I remember reading that NJ has some crazy CLE requirements and they also require all lawyers to perform pro bono stuff if ever asked.
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Jan 11, 2011 22:57
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Law thread, I'd like to thank you for stomping on my dreams of being a lawyer. Thank you for stopping me before I even made it to college, now I can study something that doesn't have a soul crushing existence as its reward.
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Jan 12, 2011 00:33
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Doppelganger posted:Any goon attorneys:
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Jan 12, 2011 00:34
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Stunt Rock posted:Market price here for an uncontested without kids is $500. Market price for an uncontested with kids is $1000. They're seriously the easiest things ever to do and take all of about two hours of time at most. The only legal work I ever had was handling an uncontested divorce for two friends of mine. I printed forms off the internet and then we went to court and my job was basically to feed the parking meter while we waited to be called (it took 4 hours) I asked for $150 and felt guilty afterwards BigHead posted:For the purposes of this reply I'm going to assume this isn't a troll. Given that this is your first and only post on the whole forums, you either just now discovered this thread (probably from referral from Above the Law or something), or you are ainsley's parachute account. nah I never worked in a firm
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Jan 12, 2011 00:35
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poofactory posted:I remember reading that NJ has some crazy CLE requirements and they also require all lawyers to perform pro bono stuff if ever asked. First couple years they have a lot of work. They have to write essays and crap that they get graded on. But once you're done with that you're done with CLE requirements.
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Jan 12, 2011 00:39
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BigHead posted:(and since you were dumb enough to go to a lovely law school in the "middle of the pack" you probably won't pass the bar, add six more months of unemployment at a minimum) The rest of that post is pretty dead-on though anime name dude.
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Jan 12, 2011 01:47
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commish posted:Wouldn't market price vary by... market? It might but gently caress any market where you're essentially paying $1000/hr.
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Jan 12, 2011 01:48
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Ainsley McTree posted:The only legal work I ever had was handling an uncontested divorce for two friends of mine. I printed forms off the internet and then we went to court and my job was basically to feed the parking meter while we waited to be called (it took 4 hours) Oh yeah I forgot - I also got a sandwich out of the deal but the waitress took it away before i could finish because i was eating too slow i don't miss law
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Jan 12, 2011 02:40
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Ainsley McTree posted:The only legal work I ever had was handling an uncontested divorce for two friends of mine. I printed forms off the internet and then we went to court and my job was basically to feed the parking meter while we waited to be called (it took 4 hours) What was the filing fee?
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Jan 12, 2011 02:56
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Alaemon posted:What was the filing fee? I forget, but I think it was more than that. The $150 & sandwich was alll profit I did spend a few of my own dollars on the parking meter though. That's the caliber of service you get with me
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Jan 12, 2011 03:06
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Doppelganger posted:Any goon attorneys: Become head of my department and create a goon-filled office, fridges full of Code Red Mountain Dew and bags of Cheetos everywhere.
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Jan 12, 2011 03:07
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Doppelganger posted:Any goon attorneys: Ideally I'll have enough experience that I can open up my own shop (one of the nice points of having a lazy boss at my last job is that I can handle a case/client without help). Aside from one or two areas of law I need to pick up, I feel pretty confident by that point I'll be ready. Stunt Rock posted:Market price here for an uncontested without kids is $500. Market price for an uncontested with kids is $1000. They're seriously the easiest things ever to do and take all of about two hours of time at most. That's about the going rate I've seen. Anything less than that and it really isn't worth your time.
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Jan 12, 2011 03:18
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Abugadu posted:Become head of my department and create a goon-filled office, fridges full of Code Red Mountain Dew and bags of Cheetos everywhere. oh my god dude hurry
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Jan 12, 2011 03:33
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Abugadu posted:Become head of my department and create a goon-filled office, fridges full of Code Red Mountain Dew and bags of Cheetos everywhere. Can you get Code Red that far out into the Pacific? I mean, do you have to build huge cargo cult effigies in the hopes of getting a case air dropped?
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Jan 12, 2011 03:57
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Abugadu posted:Become head of my department and create a goon-filled office, fridges full of Code Red Mountain Dew and bags of Cheetos everywhere. fun fact: if this next job pans out I will be going to an island smaller than yours with a worse climate but because I will still not be practicing law, it will be glorious
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Jan 12, 2011 04:04
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Mookie posted:Can you get Code Red that far out into the Pacific? I mean, do you have to build huge cargo cult effigies in the hopes of getting a case air dropped? The Gaben created from the red mud has worked wonders. We actually get an amazing variety of things out here. The military presence ensures we get most of the US foodstuffs, and we have a large amount of Asian/Filipino/Aussie food as well. And one Indian grocer.
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Jan 12, 2011 04:40
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Adar posted:fun fact: if this next job pans out I will be going to an island smaller than yours with a worse climate isle of man?
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Jan 12, 2011 04:45
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fire island
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Jan 12, 2011 04:57
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calmasahinducow posted:isle of man? Phil Moscowitz posted:fire island
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Jan 12, 2011 05:05
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yo football fan lawgoons there is a lockout question i posted in the legal threadoramma i would love you to answer!!
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Jan 12, 2011 05:35
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Basic premise is wrong: NFL doesn't have a broad antitrust exemption, MLB is the only one that enjoys this thanks to Oliver Wendell Holmes' major boner for baseball. Edit: Ok, I see where you're going with it, let me give a better answer in a bit. Abugadu fucked around with this message at 05:58 on Jan 12, 2011 |
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Jan 12, 2011 05:55
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NFL and other sports leagues have an antitrust exemption because the very nature of the business (running a league) requires a certain level of collusion between the teams for the concept to work - you can't have a league without the teams working together. It really only extends to the stuff they can justify under that.
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Jan 12, 2011 05:58
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Abugadu posted:Basic premise is wrong: NFL doesn't have a broad antitrust exemption, MLB is the only one that enjoys this thanks to Oliver Wendell Holmes' major boner for baseball. Wouldn't that mean that the players have even more power to sue the gently caress out of the NFL should the union decertify? e: the point I'm trying to get at is - suppose the owners lock out the players and the union decertifies. How much power do the players have to force the owners' hands to make sure there is football next season?
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Jan 12, 2011 05:58
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Petey posted:Wouldn't that mean that the players have even more power to sue the gently caress out of the NFL should the union decertify? More power than what? Baseball players? Probably. But the non-statutory labor exemption doesn't just apply to sports leagues.
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Jan 12, 2011 06:00
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Petey posted:e: the point I'm trying to get at is - suppose the owners lock out the players and the union decertifies. How much power do the players have to force the owners' hands to make sure there is football next season? Probably none. It would probably take years to resolve in litigation.
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Jan 12, 2011 06:03
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The owners might have the ability to challenge the decertification, which would string things out. But the players won the last trial after they decertified in the early 90's, so the tactic's worked once before. The major downside: Both times that there have been shortened seasons because of labor issues, the Redskins won the Super Bowl. Edit: Probably wouldn't take that long, it'd get fast tracked for sure.
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Jan 12, 2011 06:04
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Abugadu posted:The owners might have the ability to challenge the decertification, which would string things out. Wasn't 1987 a strike though? Have the players ever decertified for a lockout?
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Jan 12, 2011 06:06
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