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Bummey posted:Actually I'm pretty sure Ardee got exactly what she deserved. That's pretty dark Bummey. What did she do to deserve that? Be an abused/abandoned daughter/sister who later developed a drinking problem because nobody would let her do anything?
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Jan 11, 2011 04:57
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Maybe it was a good thing, in the end. Sure he's a physical wreck and has some psychological issues (big understatement), but Arch Lector Glokta is well capable of protecting her and she apparently had a thing for him before he was all crippled and horrible, and apparently still liked him enough to tolerate his company afterward. Not exactly a match made in heaven, but probably better than being the King's mistress or penniless on the street or having to deal with an abusive brother. Sure, West hated himself for it, but that doesn't mean he'd stop hitting her if he hadn't gotten microwaved.
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Jan 11, 2011 05:04
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Even if Glokta did get a happy ending by marrying Ardee and gaining more influence, Isn't Angland going to go the way of the ancient empire Glustrod destroyed? Using the seed started the plague that killed off the Old Empire, and weren't cases of it popping up at the end of the third book after Bayaz used it again?
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Jan 11, 2011 05:14
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KillRoy posted:Even if Glokta did get a happy ending by marrying Ardee and gaining more influence, Isn't Angland going to go the way of the ancient empire Glustrod destroyed? Using the seed started the plague that killed off the Old Empire, and weren't cases of it popping up at the end of the third book after Bayaz used it again? Do we still need to spoiler tag? I will but it seems pointless after 14 pages for books that have been out years. The radiation sickness seems to be fairly localized, and it seems follow conventional radiation sickness, which is not communicable if initiated by a solid mass rather than something in liquid or powder form. The Union wouldn't fall to it at all, and Best Served Cold would seem to indicate that the Union is doing just fine years later aside from having more trouble with the north. Whatever Glustrod did was a huge catastrophic event compared to Ferro running the seed through the streets before putting it into its lead box.
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Jan 11, 2011 05:40
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This is going to sound like kind of a weird recommendation but people who liked the ending of the First Law trilogy should check out The Wind-Up Girl by Paolo Bacigalupi, which won the Hugo and Nebula last year. It's completely, 100% nothing like it in terms of setting or plot (takes place in Thailand, approximately 200 years in the future) but I think people who dug the darkness of Abercrombie and the sense that heroism is punished, people are victimized by the histories and their fate, etc., are all there. I just finished it today and reading the last couple of pages of the thread I was really struck by the similarities (I could definitely think of a parallel to Glokta, to Jezal, to Colonel West, etc.). Obviously, don't go into it expecting magic or bloodlusted barbarians, but it has a lot of really interesting ideas, and that sense of darkness and danger is very well done. ed: In other words, if you like Abercrombie for the tone, you will like it; not so much if you like him for the magic or setting.
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Jan 11, 2011 06:30
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I saw Joe Abercrombie at the New York Comic-con on the fantasy authors panel, and the guy was hilarious in person. The banter between him and Brandon Sanderson was great. Finally just got around to buying the books, and finished "The Blade Itself" right before I got sent on a business trip before the missus could finish the second book. Talk about blue balls. Really could have used some reading for the hotel.
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Jan 11, 2011 07:41
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After reading the recent posts in this thread, I sat down and tried to think: Is there a single named character who ends the trilogy happy? It's been a while since I've read it, but I honestly can't think of anyone. I mean, Glokta is probably in the best state out of anyone, but he's certainly not happy.
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Jan 11, 2011 07:58
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IRQ posted:Do we still need to spoiler tag? I will but it seems pointless after 14 pages for books that have been out years. Aye, keep spoiler tagging. There are new people coming into the thread all the time and it's nice to keep it welcoming.
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Jan 11, 2011 10:48
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Regarding who is happy at the end of The First Law: Bayaz seems reasonably happy, since everything went his way and then some.
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Jan 11, 2011 10:48
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Decius posted:Regarding who is happy at the end of The First Law: Bayaz seems reasonably happy, since everything went his way and then some. Well, besides that person.
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Jan 11, 2011 11:25
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Jezal comes out happy. He won't be after Glokta gives his wife's lover back to her but right now he's living his dream. Aside from responsibility, of course. One of my favorite character arcs throughout the book is Jezal discovering what a complete boob he is. He goes from being arrogant and confident that he should be in charge of something someday, to being (correctly) terrified that he's not capable of shouldering significant responsibility. And he then of course gets increasing levels of responsibility dumped on him. I am of the opinion that, should they make a concerted effort, the Union would be perfectly capable of ambushing and killing Bayaz. He may be incredibly powerful, but we've seen that there are sharp limits to that power. We've seen Bayaz taxed to his limits dealing with a few dozen men, and we know that Eaters can be hacked to bits by a large enough group of normal soldiers. Throw the entire Agriont guard at Bayaz and Yoru and they would eventually succumb. The only real problem for the Union's leaders is that they don't know Bayaz's surveillance capabilities. And I suppose they can't be sure that Khalul would be any more friendly if Bayaz was dead. Arglebargle III fucked around with this message at 17:55 on Jan 11, 2011 |
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Jan 11, 2011 17:47
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IRQ posted:Do we still need to spoiler tag? I will but it seems pointless after 14 pages for books that have been out years. I only spoilered it because it happens at the very end of the last book, I'd hate to ruin for someone halfway through. neongrey posted:After reading the recent posts in this thread, I sat down and tried to think: Is there a single named character who ends the trilogy happy? It's been a while since I've read it, but I honestly can't think of anyone. Black Dow seems to have come out alright. Not sure what he's up to during BSC, but at the end of Argument of Kings he's sitting pretty.
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Jan 11, 2011 19:41
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KillRoy posted:Black Dow seems to have come out alright. Not sure what he's up to during BSC, but at the end of Argument of Kings he's sitting pretty. I imagine we'll find out when The Heroes comes out. Don't know why but for some reason I thought it was today. But it isn't. 
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Jan 11, 2011 19:52
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Arglebargle III posted:Jezal comes out happy .... but right now he's living his dream. Huh, no he's not. By the end he has come to the full realization that he's an incompetent putz and fully at the mercy of Glokta, who in turn is fully at the mercy of Bayaz. He knows he's nothing but a puppet, a fraud to the throne and a laughing stock for everyone who knows the truth. Sure, he does act out his moments of power I'M THE KING but after exercising that he sinks back down into a deeper depression and hopelessness about his situation. Jezal is one of the most miserable characters by the end of the series. At least other people have lost limbs or have magical radiation poisoning or flat out died, but that's an easy end compared to Jezal who has to live a lie every day of his life. Bummey fucked around with this message at 00:34 on Jan 12, 2011 |
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Jan 12, 2011 00:08
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Yeah, I think Jezal went through a lot of character development. At the beginning of the series, being a puppet-king would've been his dream job. All the fun, none of the responsibility. However, by the end of the series, he had clearly grown into wanting to do some good and be a good leader, but seemed miserable to find out that he was completely powerless (and in a loveless marriage to boot!). I'm sure he still enjoys the perks of the job (like his cameo in BSC), but overall he seems pretty unhappy where he is.
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Jan 12, 2011 00:21
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Grand Prize Winner posted:
Nope, sorry- as Ballsworthy noted earlier in this thread, Bayaz is Jeff Bridges from Iron Man:  Chris Lee is way, way too classy to be Bayaz. I don't know about Jezal but I've always pictured Glotka as Tim Roth for some reason. Juaguocio fucked around with this message at 00:53 on Jan 12, 2011 |
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Jan 12, 2011 00:51
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A lot of the actors we're thinking of wouldn't work because Bayaz doesn't really come out as wicked until the very end. You see Christopher Lee on the screen and you know he's a bad dude.
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Jan 12, 2011 02:43
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I dunno, I pictured Bayaz as looking less imposing and more "plain", like a sad middle aged guy who works at Borders because he can't find a teaching job.
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Jan 12, 2011 02:47
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Bayaz also went back and forth from appearing young to old, healthy to on death's door etc. I don't see this series ever being made into a movie or show so no big deal.
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Jan 12, 2011 02:48
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While watching Valhalla all I could think of was this guy for Logen NineFingers.
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Jan 12, 2011 03:04
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Juaguocio posted:Nope, sorry- as Ballsworthy noted earlier in this thread, Bayaz is Jeff Bridges from Iron Man: That is the most Bayazy man that has every Bayazed Bayaz, I think. I should find where I put my copy of the blade itself, I could do with a reread, I think.
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Jan 12, 2011 03:25
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Just finished Best Served Cold and the First Law trilogy, and man, Abercrombie has a hard on for loving over well-meaning Northmen, doesn't he? I know everybody gets a bit hosed, but jeez...Logen and Shivers both tried to be good men and get hammered. Also, Cosca rules.
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Jan 12, 2011 04:29
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I must salute my mail carrier, he braved some pretty treacherous roads to deliver this today. 
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Jan 12, 2011 05:18
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Dude you are in the bottom half of the list. Best send it to me to save yourself some embarrassment.
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Jan 12, 2011 05:20
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I love that cover.
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Jan 12, 2011 05:39
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Daveski posted:I dunno, I pictured Bayaz as looking less imposing and more "plain", like a sad middle aged guy who works at Borders because he can't find a teaching job. Terry O'Quinn (John Locke in Lost)would be a fantastic Bayaz. He can do both.
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Jan 12, 2011 10:59
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KillRoy posted:Black Dow seems to have come out alright. Not sure what he's up to during BSC, but at the end of Argument of Kings he's sitting pretty. Yeah, I thought Black Dow's ending really captured the theme running between him and Logan. Throughout the books, we learn that Black Dow has done some real shady poo poo, but he owns up to his name and doesn't try to hide it. Logan presents himself as an honest warrior going though some rough times, but as the story unfolds, we learn Logan's a hypocrite and worse than Black Dow. Before Ninefingers leads his men south, he tells Black Dow he's not sitting in Skarling's chair because the mud does just fine for him. This is Logan just telling himself another lie about himself. When Ninefingers finally returns north Black Dow is seated on the throne and says it's more comfortable then the ground. No false modesty there. Then of course he has Calder and Scale try to assassinate Logan because what do you think his name is, White Dow?
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Jan 12, 2011 20:41
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O'Quinn is a good actor but he doesn't have the voice to play Bayaz. Even when he's playing a roid-raging spaz his voice has a nasal whine and I suspect there's nothing he can do about it.
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Jan 12, 2011 20:55
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Arglebargle III posted:O'Quinn is a good actor but he doesn't have the voice to play Bayaz. Even when he's playing a roid-raging spaz his voice has a nasal whine and I suspect there's nothing he can do about it. So dub him with James Earl Jones, clearly the best solution for everyone. 
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Jan 12, 2011 22:09
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IRQ posted:Do we still need to spoiler tag? I will but it seems pointless after 14 pages for books that have been out years. The thing about series like this/Malazan/etc is that there are new fans coming here to talk and ask questions all the time. There's only one thread on this board that delights in loving poo poo up for people, everywhere else is pretty cool about not loving things up for newbies. EDIT: Paul Giammati as Bayaz.
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Jan 13, 2011 01:54
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A Nice Boy posted:The thing about series like this/Malazan/etc is that there are new fans coming here to talk and ask questions all the time. There's only one thread on this board that delights in loving poo poo up for people, everywhere else is pretty cool about not loving things up for newbies. Hate Giammati. Actually that kid that shot up Arizona last weekend screams Bayaz to me. I think he's probably otherwise occupied, however. And it's not like I posted a bunch of spoilers or anything, I just asked. The Bad Thread doesn't leak that badly.
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Jan 13, 2011 03:02
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IRQ posted:Do we still need to spoiler tag? I will but it seems pointless after 14 pages for books that have been out years. Dude, I got pissed off at Family Guy last week for spoiling Citizen Kane for me. Yeah, that 70 year old movie. There is never a time when it is OK to spoil a story for someone. Ever. Always assume that someone out there is brand new to the series and by neglecting to use spoiler tags you are ruining their enjoyment of it. Yes, even A Song of Ice and Fire. Especially that.
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Jan 13, 2011 03:14
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Bummey posted:Dude, I got pissed off at Family Guy last week Me too, Family Guy blows. Snape kills Dumbledore, Romeo and Juliet die, the Romans kill Jesus.
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Jan 13, 2011 03:27
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1) The crazy fan speculation on how Dumbledore might not be dead was hilarious to read, 2)Thanks for ruining the ending for me, rear end in a top hat, and 3) Was Matthew 27:25 retconned out of the NT?
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Jan 13, 2011 06:38
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Bought the first (only?) three books in 'The First Law' series. Opened book two, and it says: "THIS IS AN UNCORRECTED MANUSCRIPT PROOF" blah blah blah. Is this rare/worth mad money?
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Jan 19, 2011 00:52
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A Nice Boy posted:EDIT: Paul Giammati as Bayaz. Ugh. Giamatti can play one of Glotka's torture victims.
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Jan 19, 2011 01:19
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Teenagers posted:Bought the first (only?) three books in 'The First Law' series. Opened book two, and it says: "THIS IS AN UNCORRECTED MANUSCRIPT PROOF" blah blah blah. Nope, sorry. That's an advance reader copy that publishers do runs of before they do the final printing for sale. Usually they're only uncorrected in the sense that it hasn't got the final coat of polish, but I've read some where there's major plot discrepancies and timeline issues. They get given to the author to spread around, sent to reviewers, people responsible for purchasing stock for a bookstore, and/or just anybody who knows somebody, etc. They aren't supposed to be resold though, so you actually sorta got ripped off if it's on the worse end of the ARC spectrum, but it's probably perfectly readable.
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Jan 19, 2011 02:00
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Juaguocio posted:Ugh. Giamatti can play one of Glotka's torture victims. Or Glotka!
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Jan 19, 2011 22:34
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Yadoppsi posted:Yeah, I thought Black Dow's ending really captured the theme running between him and Logan. Throughout the books, we learn that Black Dow has done some real shady poo poo, but he owns up to his name and doesn't try to hide it. Logan presents himself as an honest warrior going though some rough times, but as the story unfolds, we learn Logan's a hypocrite and worse than Black Dow. Is he actually worse, though? Or is he just crazy? It seems pretty apparent that the Bloody Nine is Logan having some sort of psychotic episode that he doesn't remember, regrets afterward, and dreads when he's in his right mind. I'm still mad he killed Tol Diru, though. That guy was awesome. Anyone else listen to the audiobooks and been annoyed by the discrepancy between the representations of Cosca? I listened too Best Served Cold and he was awesome, then the trilogy afterward and not so much.
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Jan 19, 2011 23:21
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Koryk posted:Is he actually worse, though? Or is he just crazy? It seems pretty apparent that the Bloody Nine is Logan having some sort of psychotic episode that he doesn't remember, regrets afterward, and dreads when he's in his right mind. I'm still mad he killed Tol Diru, though. That guy was awesome. It's been a while since I read LAoK, but in the final Logan chapter, doesn't Black Dow rattle off the ways Ninefingers is worse than him?
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Jan 20, 2011 02:39
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