|
The 19th Person posted:What's a good resource for absolute beginners? I got a lot out of The Interactive Way to Go and then playing some games on KGS.
|
#
?
Jan 7, 2011 23:51
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 12, 2024 19:29 |
|
|
The board I got was a used one, my aunt got it as a gift and it just collected dust on her shelf for years, and there seem to be white stones missing, or at least more black than white. There are about 150 white stones. Is this enough to play a 19X19 game to completion?
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2011 01:03
|
|
|
180 / 181 is the typical split, but 150 stones should see you ok. I may be wrong but I can only see lots of stones being used in a very tight professional / dan game.
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2011 07:31
|
|
|
oiseaux morts 1994 posted:180 / 181 is the typical split, but 150 stones should see you ok. I may be wrong but I can only see lots of stones being used in a very tight professional / dan game. You can always trade prisoners if necessary, too, since the net difference in score will remain the same. Post a picture of your set!
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2011 08:05
|
|
|
I think on average the number of stones used for a full game goes up with rank. If you have 150 white stones it shouldn't be an issue - a game where white could actually use them all is relatively rare at lower levels. I can't think of any 300 moves games I've played recently, in any case. Pretty recently, I had a round against a guy who was 3k but really showcased that 16k style, and the whole game was over and ready to count in 164 moves. When you first start you will play tremendously long, drawn out games because you will have absolutely no idea what the gently caress is going on, but after a few weeks of playing the number of stones will drop dramatically as the Terror takes hold of you. Until then you can proxy out pennies or some poo poo if you really have to since you aren't exactly creating works of art on the goban.
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2011 12:18
|
|
|
The 19th Person posted:I recently got a board for christmas, and am slightly interested in this game, but I have no idea what I'm doing outside of the basic ruleset. What's a good resource for absolute beginners? As an absolute beginner I liked Janice Kim's Learn To Play Go series. Also, go and play an assload of 9x9s and 9stone full games. Like an assload. You will not know what the hell you are doing for 50 games, this is normal.
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2011 03:52
|
|
|
You can do it! Reach for the low-hanging fruit and get strong fast! KGS handle: Xombar Current rank: 13 kyū Learned rules: 1 month ago Total time spent: 63 hours Total non-full-board play: ~4 games Sources used: > The Interactive Way To Go > Sensei's Library wiki > going over games with KGS goons - shoutouts to Wasuji, IWantHam, Athanos Xom fucked around with this message at 10:00 on Mar 31, 2014 |
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2011 08:21
|
|
|
I bought SmartGo for my ipod touch and it's pretty rad. It has a lot of pro games that you can review with a guess move feature too; a few annotated games as well; lots of problems to solve; and you can even play against the AI although it's laughably crappy.
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2011 08:37
|
|
|
What's a good one for the iPad?
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2011 09:09
|
|
|
Argue posted:What's a good one for the iPad? SmartGo Kifu is the iPad version. It's too bad that there's no client for KGS and probably never will be; there's one for Android. You can connect to IGS with Tetsuki however.
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2011 09:16
|
|
|
Cant wait for all the old people to die so someone makes a decent, intuitive and useful Go client and provides iPhone support and basically doesn't live in 1945. Go is the ham radio of the boardgame world
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2011 09:38
|
|
|
I have SmartGo Pro on Ipod Touch. It's pretty rad if you want a poo poo ton of problems to do and a magnitude poo poo ton more of pro games to access. I guess if KGS had a client I would grab it, but honestly could not imagine playing a long game on my ipod and I don't think blitz would be an option.
|
|
#
?
Jan 16, 2011 01:16
|
|
|
Can you even play games on the KGS Android client? I see people speccing with them, but I haven't ever seen someone play a game on one that I can remember. I know Athanos bought it, maybe he can regale us with some tales about his KGS-lite experience
|
|
#
?
Jan 16, 2011 02:00
|
|
|
Anybody mind giving some extremely basic opening advice? I feel that I have a basic understanding of normal opening play, but when it comes to off-the-wall moves I don't know how to respond. I played Black last night and the opening went like the diagram below. I seemed to be caught off guard by White 6. My understanding is that the fifth row is too high for plays like this, for reasons like "you can't form a base" and "hypothetically, letting Black crawl underneath on the fourth row gives him a ton of territory." But assuming it is a mistake, I didn't quite know how to counter it. I played Black 7, reasoning that if he was going to play on the fifth line, I could gain a ton of territory by playing underneath on the fourth, whereas the move also threatens to jump in underneath his stone if he moves away. He obliged me by playing 8 and 10 but it doesn't seem to have worked out so well. (I might be misremembering 13 and 14, but the results weren't great.) I could also have played 7 one row below where I did. This seems a bit more secure for me but if my opponent still responds the same way by playing an attachment on the fourth line, I'm in basically the same situation with less territory to show. Or I could have played 7 at the square-marked point, preventing him from forming a base and threatening to connect to either corner, with an attack to follow? In hindsight perhaps at first glance this looks best, although it might be too aggressive. But it leads to another basic question: what do I do if he just attacks that stone with something crazy like C9/C11/D9/D11, and doesn't worry about forming a base at all? I guess I should just sacrifice that stone and approach from the corners, gaining territory there and maybe reducing his eyespace? Sorry for the wall of text; thanks to anybody who responds, even if you don't bother reading all this and just give your impressions of the diagram. McNerd fucked around with this message at 01:03 on Jan 17, 2011 |
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2011 00:28
|
|
|
well if he really played like that all you'd have to do is capture 12 and he would be poo poo out of luck. I get the feeling that something else got played. A weakness of fourth line plays is that being on the fourth line, its easy for white to slide under you on the second line and that once he does it will be difficult to kill/stop him. A fifth line play is even weaker in this respect since a move underneath it (on the third line, this time) is going to be not just difficult but more like impossible to kill or contain, or even really attack. In reply to White 6 you could play at the squared point and then simply extend in the direction he doesn't, and be fine.  The triangled area in the picture is territory you have almost definitely made as a result, with a strong promise of more to come. If white comes in lower than the fifth line, not only do you get less of this secured profit, white can play stronger poo poo besides a knight's move to try and block and harass you. Coming from the fifth line, though, there's not a whole lot he can do. His stone is too far from the edge - you can probably see, even if he played super-aggressively or with contact moves how simple it would be to just draw back and get the profit. D6 is probably the most aggressive move white could make if you played like this, and even then all black has to do is jump straight into the center and white has to fight about ten times harder than black does just to get an even result.
|
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2011 01:32
|
|
|
Under 15 posted:His stone is too far from the edge - you can probably see, even if he played super-aggressively or with contact moves how simple it would be to just draw back and get the profit. Thanks for your response! I've heard somewhere that, as a rule of thumb, moves like contact plays and diagonal attachments tend to demand immediate, close responses like hanes in order to directly strengthen the attacked stone (unless you're prepared to sacrifice it). So I would have been nervous to play this way without very careful consideration. Have I been badly advised? Or perhaps this is just a symptom of how poorly advised this move would have been for him, if I can refute it so casually? In general I guess I need to figure out how to counter an opponent who plays too close, since I hear this is a common beginner mistake and I seem to be seeing a lot of it. Maybe one of the tricks is indeed that I shouldn't always be suckered into playing close in return? Is there any good general advice here, or is it just that as I get better I'll tend to find ways to get a good result from such situations? McNerd fucked around with this message at 06:00 on Jan 18, 2011 |
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2011 05:52
|
|
|
Contact play is usually very urgent, for reasons you outlined. In general, the kind of brawl that happens from a contact play strengthens both sides, so contact play is therefore best when you're in your opponent's area of influence. If you get strong in his area, it fucks up all his points, and if he gets huge thickness in his area its a waste because he was already thick and its not like you get scored for thickness at the end or something. When your opponent makes contact with you, your goal is usually to play simple moves and avoid giving him sente plays to make. When you're defending against contact moves in your area of influence, you should always be looking to draw back to friendly stones, to stretch out into the center, and generally play things that are sturdy and hard for him to mess with. If you do it right, he will have an incomplete shape and you will have some profit, and you can attack him properly once you are ready. When you are the invader, your goal is to try to play a lot of sente moves, so cuts and crosscuts are the order of the day. The attacker really likes crosscuts because they involve an awful lot of forcing - almost enough to settle a group. The attacker should be willing to sacrifice a lot of stones in cuts and forcing moves to be successful. As long as you have a workable group at the end, who cares how many stones you had to give up to make it happen.
|
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2011 06:23
|
|
|
Helpful and interesting stuff, Hels. Thanks.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2011 07:59
|
|
|
Under 15 posted:Great info, thanks very much!
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2011 06:04
|
|
|
Under 15 posted:Can you even play games on the KGS Android client? I see people speccing with them, but I haven't ever seen someone play a game on one that I can remember. I know Athanos bought it, maybe he can regale us with some tales about his KGS-lite experience The Client is pretty decent overall. You can use automatch and join games which are available in the open games "room", however you cannot join rooms to chat, and as a result you cannot create games. You have two methods of placement "stylus" where the stone is placed directly under where you touch, and there is a drag method where the stone is a little higher than your stone, but you can see where it is placed. Both styles require you to confirm your selection before the stone is played, so not much change of misclicks; they do happen though. As soneone mentioned above you are not going to want to blitz on it, but you can have a game relatively quickly once you get the hang of it. The client is obviously not as nice as playing at home, but if you have a long commute or a crappy internet connection like me you might want to give it a shot. There is a little bit of a leaerning curve though since the smallish, but not too small board can take some getting used to in terms spacial relations and evaluating position based on that. If you count the spaces though you should be fine. You can watch games, but I don't find myself doing that much. May not be worth $15 to everyone, but you do get two months of plus, which may or may not matter to you.
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2011 11:57
|
|
|
Am I the only one who doesn't think SDKs should be giving advice to DDKs? I'm around 6k and I feel weird telling a 12k where he should put his next stone, like I'm some kind of authority on the matter. Seems like at most I could explain a life and death situation but not much else. Also start posting go playing girls. 
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2011 15:57
|
|
|
Ugh
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2011 22:43
|
|
|
This years Superbowl half-time show:
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2011 23:07
|
|
|
Under 15 posted:Can you even play games on the KGS Android client? I see people speccing with them, but I haven't ever seen someone play a game on one that I can remember. I know Athanos bought it, maybe he can regale us with some tales about his KGS-lite experience Sure you can. I play games on the KGS Android client a few times per month or so, and it works fine. Blitz probably isnt optimal though, due to the extra click needed to confirm the selection.
|
|
#
?
Jan 27, 2011 00:40
|
|
|
https://www.gochild2009.appspot.com Just gonna plug this website. It has wonderful series of problems with similar shapes repeated over and over until they start to make sense. Element makes fun of me for using it but it truly is fantastic if you aren't willing to call up a chinaman in the middle of night to mail Lee Changho books to you.
|
|
#
?
Jan 27, 2011 18:07
|
|
|
BaconBits posted:https://www.gochild2009.appspot.com If element maks fun of you you're most likely doing something right 
|
|
#
?
Jan 27, 2011 18:48
|
|
|
Blendy posted:If element maks fun of you you're most likely doing something right If element is making fun of you, you must be a really easy target
|
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2011 01:01
|
|
|
Under 15 posted:If element is making fun of you, you must be a really easy target  Hels I miss you.
|
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2011 04:40
|
|
|
Blendy posted:
You should come back then. Problem solved.
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2011 13:33
|
|
|
oi, I am so out of practice. Gonna plays bots a bit till my I'm less rusty. 
|
|
#
?
Feb 1, 2011 04:09
|
|
|
comaerror posted:oi, I am so out of practice. Don't play bots 
|
|
#
?
Feb 1, 2011 04:58
|
|
|
Hipster Scumbag posted:Don't play bots Yea, that didn't last very long. After a few quick games I was back in the swing of things and routinely trashing the bot. I'm gonna see if I can get my rear end handed to me by some little Korean kids or something after work.
|
|
#
?
Feb 1, 2011 17:02
|
|
|
comaerror posted:Yea, that didn't last very long. After a few quick games I was back in the swing of things and routinely trashing the bot. It is a given that little korean kids will beat your rear end. Probably everyone's rear end.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2011 07:47
|
|
|
BaconBits posted:Am I the only one who doesn't think SDKs should be giving advice to DDKs? I'm around 6k and I feel weird telling a 12k where he should put his next stone, like I'm some kind of authority on the matter. Seems like at most I could explain a life and death situation but not much else.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2011 18:02
|
|
|
Just make poo poo up, I routinely give people bad advice. If it's really bad they'll end up losing a bunch because of it and learn that it was actually terrible advice and to do the opposite.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2011 01:19
|
|
|
Lyon posted:Just make poo poo up, I routinely give people bad advice. If it's really bad they'll end up losing a bunch because of it and learn that it was actually terrible advice and to do the opposite. "The pros fight over everything, you need to attack his stone as hard and fast as you can, put it right next to it" - advice given to me by a friend who introduced me to Go. Took me my first twenty games to realize he was a closet 20k who didn't know what he was talking about...
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2011 06:57
|
|
|
Playing a losing strategy all the way out to the end is important; it prevents the opponent from threatening you with it in the future, and it's a mark of self-confidence--it tells your opponent that you mean business and aren't afraid to make sacrifices.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2011 07:14
|
|
|
Don't be afraid to sacrifice stones - all 12 of them
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2011 09:05
|
|
|
oiseaux morts 1994 posted:Don't be afraid to sacrifice stones - all 12 of them yeah gently caress those stones. Here is a manly sacrifice, Kaizen's Great Masterpiece -  White got frisky on move 2 and black makes a Real Man's Sacrifice and builds monumental influence across the entire board.
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2011 22:56
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 12, 2024 19:29 |
|
|
What go book is that? I might buy it. Phrases such as, "Thickness billows out like towering clouds, wondrous to behold." are too good to pass up. If the rest of the book is like that I'm in.
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2011 14:19
|
|