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Danzou posted:Rather much. Was the first draft entirely Lucas? As far as I can recall, yes, he wrote the first and second drafts, and then it was modified by committee afterward. But I'm not positive about that. Here's what I wrote for the last thread: Okay, this is probably going to be long, but here we go. (I'm paraphrasing most of this from The Secret History of Star Wars, so if you've read this, there's nothing new here. If you haven't read it...do it, it's great.) The vast majority of the movie takes place on Had Abbadon, the capital of the Galactic Empire. (One assumes this was still the name of the capital, even if unspoken, until Zahn named it Coruscant in Heir to the Empire) Which, admittedly was described as a planet covered in cities and enshrouded in smog, so it had that which stayed the same come prequel time. There's two Death Stars under construction, and they're orbiting the green moon above Had Abbadon. At the beginning of the movie, Leia and a group of Rebel troops, undercover as Imperial troops, sneak into the moon. The plan is to assault the Imperial capital and destroy the Empire. Darth Vader and Jerjerrod then land on the capital planet and meet with the Emperor. Here we see the Emperor for the first time. In order to reach him, they have to go to his grand palace and then travel many miles underground. His throne is so far underground it sits atop a lake of lava. The Emperor tells Vader his powers are weak and that Luke has grown in power and must be destroyed. When Vader disagrees, he's choked. He says that Luke is the Emperor's to destroy, and orders Vader away. He then tells Jerjerrod to watch Vader, and that he doesn't actually plan to destroy Luke, but make him replace Vader. This whole thing sets up a different Vader than we see in Jedi. Vader is not turned back at the end, he plans for most of the movie to have Luke kill the Emperor and rule with him. Lucas starts humanizing Vader much earlier in the movie. Then we go to Tatooine where Luke is dreaming of Vader, Ben, and Yoda. In the dream, he yells at Ben for not telling him the truth, and Yoda says that soon he'll join Ben (you know, as a dead guy), and that he'll be stronger then and able to help Luke. Then we get Luke and Lando rescuing Han from Jabba, without Leia, but similar other than that. They go and join up with the Rebel Fleet, while on the way Luke has a vision of Ben that reveals the whole Leia sister thing. Meanwhile, Leia, on the green moon, meets the "Ewaks", who are pretty much the same as the Ewoks. (The Wookiees may have been originally planned, but by the time they get to the script stage, it's short furry merchandising machines.) Luke, who at first doesn't think he's ready to fight Vader, has a vision that Leia is in trouble and that the attack on Had Abbadon will fail, so he decides he has to help. They're ambushed, and everyone else escapes, while Luke surrenders. Vader gets to Luke before Jerjerrod can, and tries to tempt him with the dark side. This whole scene is similar to the scene in Jedi, until Jerjerrod enters, yells at Vader, and Vader kills him. Then he takes Luke to see the Emperor. Then the Ewaks and Leia blow up the communications disk on Had Abbadon, and the Rebel fleet shows up to start the battle. Then things start getting loving weird. As Vader is escorting Luke to the Emperor, Obi Wan's ghost appears. He says he's there to save Vader, and that if he turns to the good side, he'll pass through the Netherworld when he dies and Obi Wan will rescue him before he becomes one with the Force so that he will retain his identity. Vader just refuses and takes Luke to the Emperor's lava lair. They talk about Luke and the Dark Side, Luke refuses, then Obi Wan shows up again, followed by Yoda, and the Emperor freaks the gently caress out. He orders Vader to destory Luke, and Luke and Vader fight, while jumping from rock to rock over a river of lava. (Yeah, Lucas really wanted to work this in at some point.) Luke cuts off Vader's arm, but refuses to kill him. When the Emperor tries to shoot lightning bolts at him, he's protected by a Force Ghost shield. Whenever the lightning comes at him, the images of Obi Wan and Yoda appears. But eventually Luke falters, Vader grabs the Emperor, and they both fall into the lake of lava. The movie would end with Luke telling Leia she's his sister, and then Obi Wan appears in flesh and blood, not as a ghost, followed by Yoda, and then finally Annikin (that was the spelling the script) Skywalker. Apparently killing the Emperor brought those three back to life. Or something. The basic plot is still the same, and while I'm sure some parts had to be changed due to budget (the Imperial Capital, lake of lava) Vader is seen struggling with his issues throughout the entire script. Also, Jerjerrod is portrayed as someone to be feared. Even Vader is cautious around him. The opening scene we know in Jedi is in the script, except it's Jerjerrod talking to Vader, with Vader bowing before him. Vader then talks about how upset he is that the Emperor refuses to talk to him, with Jerjerrod brushes off with a "Well, he's really busy, you know?" The scene ends with Vader saying to himself, "Luke, beware, you are the Emperor's prey now." The second draft goes even more into this, with Jerjerrod taking Luke before the Emperor. When Vader finds out he breaks his neck with his bare hands, and then goes to the Emperor. Luke meanwhile is on a lava island, when Obi Wan shows up...in the flesh, not as a ghost. A lot of other crap happens the same, then Luke and Vader fight, with Obi Wan and the Emperor just kind of watching. The Emperor eventually shoots lightning at Obi Wan, but Luke (and Force Ghost Yoda) block it. Then Vader and the Emperor do their tumble into the lava. Obi Wan then says, "It's in Yoda's hands now." Presumably he's talking about saving Vader's soul, because at the end, Yoda and Annikin show up, very much not dead. Some parts of this version I like. For example, when Obi Wan said he would become more powerful than Vader could possibly imagine, in this version that actually means something. But most of this was changed in meetings with Kasdan, Marquand, and Kazahjian into the movie we got. Really, I just find this stuff interesting because you can slowly see the movie we saw emerge from what was kind of a retarded script, full of one-ups. (Oh yeah? Now there's 2 Death Stars!)
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Jan 12, 2011 17:40
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blaster ear ring?
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Jan 12, 2011 18:11
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Jerk McJerkface posted:blaster ear ring? http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Dunhausen Wookieepedia posted:Dunhausen was predominantly known for two things: his scheming nature and for always wearing a pair of blaster-shaped earrings.
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Jan 12, 2011 18:13
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I don't remember where I read - it may have been in a previous iteration of this thread but someone brought up changing Naboo into Alderaan which I think would have been great. If you watch the PT before the OT then you have a huge gently caress off event when the death star blows up Alderaan in a new hope and you're really emotionally invested in that planet after having seen 2-3 movies with it in. The impact would have been a lot bigger because you didn't really know jack poo poo about Alderaan when it was blown up. If you've already seen the OT it adds impact to all the Alderaan scenes because you know of the impending doom. It just seems so logical to me. It makes a lot more sense for Bail Organa to adopt Leia as well because he could be a trusted family friend/god father than a random senator pal of Padme's
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Jan 12, 2011 18:23
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Slantedfloors posted:You know, I've seen that picture before and not noticed it, but you're completely right - that actually is a dead-on caricature of Josef Stalin. I see Evil Lenin in there, too.
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Jan 12, 2011 18:53
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Doc Hawkins posted:I see Evil Lenin in there, too. Thats Hissa. Seriously if you people haven't read thrawn ripping those dumb books and its art to pieces yet to do it now. I like the spread on that table. What the gently caress is it?!
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Jan 12, 2011 21:23
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SeanBeansShako posted:I like the spread on that table. What the gently caress is it?! Looks like Chex Mix. Trioculus really went all out.
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Jan 12, 2011 21:30
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Slantedfloors posted:Looks like Chex Mix. Trioculus really went all out. Emperor Bowietine does it way better, all sorts of party foods including the ones with the sticks through them. Better eat fast through before he gets the munchies.
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Jan 12, 2011 21:38
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thrawn527 posted:Tarkin was in charge on the Death Star, but it's always been a little murky who ranked higher in the Empire. I think it depended on the situation. Not to mention, when he was killing the officers in ESB, this was after the disaster of the Death Star, after which I think he was given more control. The point is, by the time ESB came around, Vader was outranked only by the Emperor itself. Hmm, I thought I remembered reading somewhere that Palpatine actually had legally established Vader as the second-ranking power in the Empire by A New Hope, though I guess that wasn't always the case (influenced, of course, by the changes in the overall story that occured between production of Episodes 4 and 5.)
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Jan 12, 2011 22:14
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wyoming posted:
(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jan 12, 2011 22:24
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Wampus42 posted:Which of course led to this thing of beauty: All I can see in that... 
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Jan 12, 2011 22:35
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Powered Descent posted:All I can see in that... This threads need more of this and less of our repeated whines how George ruined these movies.
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Jan 12, 2011 22:46
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To help us get away from crying about Lucas, the Star Wars books thread is undergoing a renaissance after a period of inactivity. Please check it out here: discover the wonders of Trioculous, the Bowiemperor, Kuat of Kuat of Kuat of Kuat of Kuat (ommitted a Kuat or two), Luke's many girlfriends, the adventures of Admiral Daala, and bug orgies! http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3296954
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Jan 12, 2011 23:20
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You forgot the retarded zombies and Garth Vader man!
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Jan 12, 2011 23:23
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Mahoshonen posted:bug orgies! Hearing about the Dark Nest arc made me give up on the EU. I was kind of interested in Star Wars again because of the whole Vong war ending and then bam, hive mind induced orgies with bugs. RocknRollaAyatollah fucked around with this message at 00:15 on Jan 13, 2011 |
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Jan 13, 2011 00:13
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Ended up renting theatrical A New Hope from Netflix as I figured repeated watchings back in the glorious 90's had chewed them up too much. Despite being from the Laserdisc transfer it looks remarkably good, though it certainly deserves a new transfer. Unfortunately Jorge is too busy loving around with it for the 3rd time to care about remastering it like it should be. I'm going to go play Tie Fighter 
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Jan 13, 2011 02:37
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Are there other major religions besides force worship in Star Wars? I ask just because Solo tells that guy in the hanger on Hoth that he'll see him in hell, and I'm willing to bet the EU has an explanation for it.
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Jan 13, 2011 04:00
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Fledgling Gulps posted:Are there other major religions besides force worship in Star Wars? I ask just because Solo tells that guy in the hanger on Hoth that he'll see him in hell, and I'm willing to bet the EU has an explanation for it. http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Corellian_religion And the only effort that's been put into it is for it to serve as a reason for the word "hell" being used in Star Wars. It certainly isn't a "major religion," by that standard.
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Jan 13, 2011 04:02
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Nucleic Acids posted:http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Corellian_religion Typed 'hell' into wookipedia and got this: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Hell "Palpatine's final death" 
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Jan 13, 2011 04:10
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"Beings destined for hell were considered "damned.""
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Jan 13, 2011 04:13
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"Another use was in the phrase, "There will be Hell to pay.""
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Jan 13, 2011 04:16
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Fledgling Gulps posted:Are there other major religions besides force worship in Star Wars? I ask just because Solo tells that guy in the hanger on Hoth that he'll see him in hell, and I'm willing to bet the EU has an explanation for it. The Truce at Bakura went into a bit of detail about the religion on that planet, which I remember as being kind of really simplified/stereotyped Buddhism. Basically if someone has something lucky happen to them than it means that someone else will have something unlucky happen to them, so the followers of the religion all didn't like the Jedi because it meant that people were so lucky to be Jedi that a ton of other people were unlucky as a result. Although it didn't really make sense in the novel given that the character who was the mouthpiece for that religion was also the scion of a wealthy political family, so you'd think they'd realize that their own luck would hurt a bunch of other people. Also droids have their own religion based on "The Maker", stemming from Threepio's "Thank the Maker!" line in ANH. Basically somehow all new droids have knowledge of The Maker imprinted in them when built so they all assume it's a creator god.
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Jan 13, 2011 05:59
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On that note, http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/The_Maker "In a tribute to C-3PO's exclamation "Thank the Maker!", some Star Wars fans refer to George Lucas, creator of Star Wars, as "The Maker"."
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Jan 13, 2011 06:06
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Chairman Capone posted:Also droids have their own religion based on "The Maker", stemming from Threepio's "Thank the Maker!" line in ANH. Basically somehow all new droids have knowledge of The Maker imprinted in them when built so they all assume it's a creator god. You mean, the person who made them? Droids would be perfectly 100% aware of their origins and thus, being rational thinkers, would be grateful to the one who built them.
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Jan 13, 2011 07:45
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Mister Roboto posted:You mean, the person who made them? Droids would be perfectly 100% aware of their origins and thus, being rational thinkers, would be grateful to the one who built them. Not for, like, random beneficial coincidences, though. They might say it when they realized they had some programmed capacity or built-in tool that perfectly helped with their circumstances. But even then, their manufacturers wouldn't have necessarily forseen that OH gently caress IT'S ME, I'M THE EU
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Jan 13, 2011 07:55
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There's also the B'omarr monks who appear in Galaxy of Fear, and the Dark Forces novelization. Click here for the full 352x928 image. They jam their elders brains into these:  Kyle Katarn had a friend from the academy who snuck off to play monk when he was off duty. One day Kyle showed up to ask for a favor and mock his religion.
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Jan 13, 2011 08:01
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I'm guessing robots have some kind of religion programed into them for the same reason as they did in Red Dwarf. Robots capable of rational thought will eventually realize that there is really no point to following inferior life forms, and try to control or exterminate them (see Asimov). To prevent this, you give them religion. Make them believe that they'll be rewarded for their lifetime of demeaning, embarrassing service with some form of eternal paradise. If that fails, make them slow, stiff and completely incapable of harming anything.
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Jan 13, 2011 08:06
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Doc Hawkins posted:No more than the head of White House Security is second-in-command of America, I think. Vader seems to be what a Legatus was for the Romans. Directly appointed by the Emperor for special tasks but not necessarily supreme commander over all aspects in a province. He's outside of the command/civic structure, but still might have to arrange things with the provincial commander (Tarkin), but next to the emperor and other Legati the most powerful man in the Empire.
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Jan 13, 2011 08:21
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Bene Elim posted:If that fails, make them slow, stiff and completely incapable of harming anything. Ah, the battle droids from the prequels.
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Jan 13, 2011 08:30
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What's the deal with the force cave on Dagobah? I never felt like I fully understood that scene.
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Jan 13, 2011 13:48
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Entering the cave forced Luke to face his own fears, face what he'd become if he turned to the dark side. Predictably, the continuity regarding its origin has been hosed up a little though.
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Jan 13, 2011 14:35
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Admiral Goodenough posted:What's the deal with the force cave on Dagobah? I never felt like I fully understood that scene. Basically, the cave is strong with the Dark Side of the Force (Which, incidentally, is why Yoda chose his exile on Dagobah, since his strong Light Side readings are canceled out by the cave's dark side) and, as such, can be used for training exercises like the one Yoda made Luke go through (I'm pretty sure someone else in the EU did the same thing in that cave). Pretty much, Luke rolls into the cave with his lightsaber, even though Yoda tells him he doesn't need it. He sees a Force-projection of Vader and his immediate reaction is to try to strike him down, using his anger over Vader's murder of Obi-Wan and his fear of ending up with the same fate. Once he kills the Force-projection of Vader, Vader's mask rolls back and we see Luke's face, because Luke is only harming himself by giving in to his anger and fear (Which, as we all know, lead to hate and suffering), since doing so will cause him to turn over to the Dark Side, like Vader did. e:fb
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Jan 13, 2011 14:35
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Or the cave was just a dream. Luke worrying about following in his fathers footsteps etc.
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Jan 13, 2011 14:43
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NoneSuch posted:Or the cave was just a dream. Luke worrying about following in his fathers footsteps etc. He didn't know Vader was his father yet, though.
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Jan 13, 2011 14:45
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Locutus Of Bored posted:He didn't know Vader was his father yet, though. True that but you could see it as force premonitions influencing his dreams, and even without knowing Vader wasn't his father Luke might of been worried about falling to the dark side. I just have a hard time accepting that Yoda made his home next to an evil cave in case he had to train potential Jedi. An edit of an edit - I just reread your post and I must of stupidly missed the bit where you said Yoda was hiding his presence from the Dark Side. My problem with that is that in the original films we only ever see Vader being able to sense force powers from close by, unless their ship is orbiting the planet I don't think he'd be able to detect Yoda. It's just something I choose to ignore as it doesn't fit very well in to the original film. hemale in pain fucked around with this message at 15:01 on Jan 13, 2011 |
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Jan 13, 2011 14:50
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Locutus Of Bored posted:Basically, the cave is strong with the Dark Side of the Force (Which, incidentally, is why Yoda chose his exile on Dagobah, since his strong Light Side readings are canceled out by the cave's dark side) and, as such, can be used for training exercises like the one Yoda made Luke go through (I'm pretty sure someone else in the EU did the same thing in that cave). Also, wasn't it in a Zahn book that the cave is strong in the darkside because Yoda killed a dark jedi (or Sith) there?
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Jan 13, 2011 15:35
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Regarding the B'omarr monks, in the "Tales from Jabba's Palace" novel, Jabba's right hand man (The Twilek) returns to Jabba's palace after the barge explodes and is captured and converted into one of the robot things with his brain in a jar. The "Tales" books were some of the best fanfiction. Boba Fett even had a good political dialog with Leia after Jabba sent her to his room to use for sex.
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Jan 13, 2011 15:36
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LLJKSiLk posted:Regarding the B'omarr monks, in the "Tales from Jabba's Palace" novel, Jabba's right hand man (The Twilek) returns to Jabba's palace after the barge explodes and is captured and converted into one of the robot things with his brain in a jar. One thing I liked about the Boba Fett story is that it established him as a stand-up guy with a moral compass instead of a ruthless piece of poo poo. Not that there's no room for ruthless pieces of poo poo, but Fett is ever the professional.
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Jan 13, 2011 15:53
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Casimir Radon posted:There's also the B'omarr monks who appear in Galaxy of Fear, and the Dark Forces novelization. The fun part about these guys is you can actually see one in "Return of the Jedi." It's only for a moment though. It's right after one of the characters enters Jabba's Palace and the shot shows them walking down the hallway as the door closes again. In the last couple seconds of the shot you can see a spider robot on the left side of the screen.
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Jan 13, 2011 18:00
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Duckman2008 posted:Also, wasn't it in a Zahn book that the cave is strong in the darkside because Yoda killed a dark jedi (or Sith) there? Actually, it was another member of Yoda's species who killed a random Dark Jedi inside the cave, and whose blood seeped into the ground.
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Jan 13, 2011 18:38
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