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Mr. Carlisle posted:Wasn't it originally supposed to basically be one giant angle to get Dr. Death over? Then he lost like in the first round and everyone that participated ended up injured in one hilarious jumble of a failure. And then the winner got Butterbeaned in 5 seconds, so no one got over.
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Jan 13, 2011 20:47
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bobkatt013 posted:And then the winner got Butterbeaned in 5 seconds, so no one got over. Haha, yeah - I was just posting about that in the WWE discussion thread. Apparently it only took 30 seconds for Butterbean to make short work of Bart Gunn but he ended up popular in Japan because he knocked out Steve Williams previously.
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Jan 13, 2011 20:48
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqRFIscsanw
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Jan 13, 2011 21:01
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A quick check on Wikipedia shows I had my dates wrong. The BFA was actually held in 1998, after Raw had caught up with Nitro in the ratings. 
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Jan 13, 2011 21:01
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Minidust posted:A quick check on Wikipedia shows I had my dates wrong. The BFA was actually held in 1998, after Raw had caught up with Nitro in the ratings. The Butterbeaning was at WrestleMania XV in 1999, though. I wonder what the line of thinking on that was. "Well, we had Tyson last year and that was great, how do we follow it up? Oh, okay, we'll have a shoot fight with Butterbean and Bart loving Gunn."
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Jan 13, 2011 21:08
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Butterbean was pretty clearly just Bart Gunn's punishment for knocking out Dr Death.
MrBling fucked around with this message at 21:42 on Jan 13, 2011 |
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Jan 13, 2011 21:34
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Watched the Bob Holly YouShoot on Youtube and he says that JR and Vince were pissed with Bart for knocking out Dr Death.
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Jan 13, 2011 21:39
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Was The Brawl For All something they all opted into? Did JR just call people into his office and say "We've booked you on RAW next week in a shoot fight with Doctor loving Death Steve Williams"? What the hell do you even say to that? You either refuse, and get punished as a result, you go out there try to lose as quickly and painlessly as possible (and get punished for making a joke out of the "legitimate shoot" tournament), or you beat up Dr Death, and... yeah :{
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Jan 13, 2011 22:15
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Wikipedia says that it was totally optional to participate for the guys involved so apparently it was volunteer. Then again it's wikipedia so take that for what it's worth. A legit MMA guy pulled out at the last minute too probably knowing it was a dumb idea so there's that.
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Jan 13, 2011 22:19
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Mr. Carlisle posted:Wikipedia says that it was totally optional to participate for the guys involved so apparently it was volunteer. Then again it's wikipedia so take that for what it's worth. A legit MMA guy pulled out at the last minute too probably knowing it was a dumb idea so there's that. Was it Severn who pulled out? Dude would've killed everyone
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Jan 13, 2011 23:03
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SAVE_US.CHR
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ChampRamp posted:Was it Severn who pulled out? Dude would've killed everyone Severn pulled out after the first round. Shamrock pulled out before the tournament.
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Jan 13, 2011 23:06
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I think the deal was they had Butterbean signed to a two-appearance contract. He did one match against Marc Mero when Mero was doing his boxer gimmick. Since they still had another Butterbean appearance in their pocket and were mad at Bart Gunn for ruining their angle, it was "Welp, you wanna box Bart, here you go!"
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Jan 13, 2011 23:13
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C. Everett Koop posted:I think the deal was they had Butterbean signed to a two-appearance contract. He did one match against Marc Mero when Mero was doing his boxer gimmick. Since they still had another Butterbean appearance in their pocket and were mad at Bart Gunn for ruining their angle, it was "Welp, you wanna box Bart, here you go!" I went into a longer history of this before, but after Bart won the BFA, he was off of TV for roughly 6 months before his last match at WrestleMania.
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Jan 13, 2011 23:40
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"Congrats on being a legit tough guy and winning our stupid contest - you'll now be yanked off tv, embarrassed on PPV and then released."
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Jan 13, 2011 23:49
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Mr. Carlisle posted:"Congrats on being a legit tough guy and winning our stupid contest - you'll now be yanked off tv, embarrassed on PPV and then released." Matt Hardy wishes he could have it this good. He wrestled with an entire ham for hours.
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Jan 13, 2011 23:55
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Mr. Carlisle posted:Wasn't it originally supposed to basically be one giant angle to get Dr. Death over? Yep. They thought that they would get him over by winning shoots despite the fact that fans would assume it was a work anyway. They succeeded in loving up their push, getting the wrong guy over, and injuring a bunch of wrestlers. Tyma posted:Was The Brawl For All something they all opted into? Yes. They received bonuses for fighting (I think), winning fights, and winning the tournament. Rusty Shackelford posted:I went into a longer history of this before, but after Bart won the BFA, he was off of TV for roughly 6 months before his last match at WrestleMania. If I remember it's because they had him legitimately train boxing, along with having no idea what to do with him. Mr. Carlisle posted:Foley could have set that whole thing up for the documentary Not could have, did. He thought it would be good for the documentary and for his match, so fans watching on PPV would see the "Bah Gawd, his family is watching this!" reaction. Did Rock screw up his chairshots? From what Foley has said and written, yes. However Rock has no responsibility for Foley's family being out there. It was going to be hosed up for Foley's kids to see even if it went according to plan. Foley made a horrible parenting decision, then showed how little he'd learned by supporting Tommy Dreamer doing the same thing in TNA.
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Jan 14, 2011 05:39
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drat, that is pretty low then. He obviously regrets his decision later but that could be false regret for the documentary too. It's hard to say without being Mick Foley and knowing what he's thinking. Either way it was a bad decision to have his children there. It's bad for any children to see that really. When I saw the huge slice he had in his head it made me look away for a second. I can handle any amount of slasher movie blood you throw at me but legit wounds I'd rather not see.
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Jan 14, 2011 06:03
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I think the thing that got me about it is just the fact that Colette didn't just...take the kids and leave the match. I would think after say, the second really nasty shot, you would just get them and leave. Beyond the Mat was actually one of the documentaries that we watched in my film class in college. I remember that my teacher had a theory about that match. I'm by no means agreeing with it, but I thought it was an interesting perspective. He thought that it looked like Colette was actually using the kids terrible reaction to the match as a way of getting Mick to retire. The match was after the HIAC, and in the doc she was talking about wanting him to at least take it easy. He points out that she's kind of the first one of them to really react to the chair shots, and just really freaked out. Like I said, I don't necessarily agree with him but I thought it might be an interesting bit to think about.
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Jan 14, 2011 06:14
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The Senator Giroux posted:I think the thing that got me about it is just the fact that Colette didn't just...take the kids and leave the match. I would think after say, the second really nasty shot, you would just get them and leave.
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Jan 14, 2011 06:17
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bobkatt013 posted:There is also the rumor that she would tell Vince that Mick to take more abuse for more money. However that was on the scummy stories thread. She told Vince that if Mick was going to be taking all this extra damage that he seemed so committed to doing for the sake of a story/spectacle, then she expected Vince to pay more for it. It's an entirely reasonably and logical thing to do given the situation, since Mick would be far too nice and eager to please to suggest he should be getting more cash. You can be drat sure that the Mick of that time intended to take the extra abuse "for the story" so if it was going to happen, his wife was looking out for him by making sure he got compensation for it.
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Jan 14, 2011 06:36
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What percentage of the WWE's income comes from house shows?
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Jan 14, 2011 06:48
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Captain Magic posted:What percentage of the WWE's income comes from house shows? http://corporate.wwe.com/documents/annual_report_2009/HTML2/wwe-ar2009_0012.htm "Live events net revenues were $108.8 million, $105.7 million and $99.3 million, representing 23%, 20% and 20% of total net revenues in 2009, 2008 and 2007, respectively." Not sure whether that includes tickets sold for TV tapings and PPVs, but there's the ballpark. I get the feeling if you told Fritz Von Erich or Sam Muchnick house shows only counted for 20% of revenue they would have a heart attack.
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Jan 14, 2011 08:06
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Bikeage posted:http://corporate.wwe.com/documents/annual_report_2009/HTML2/wwe-ar2009_0012.htm Fritz would be OK as long as Vince was properly exploiting his children.
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Jan 14, 2011 08:12
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bobkatt013 posted:There is also the rumor that she would tell Vince that Mick to take more abuse for more money. However that was on the scummy stories thread. I've heard quite a few people confirm it in the internet news world. Guys who used to work for Torch and Observer. It doesn't mean much since it's not Foley or Vince or Collette saying it but it's something.
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Jan 14, 2011 08:15
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Lone Rogue posted:I've heard quite a few people confirm it in the internet news world. Guys who used to work for Torch and Observer. It doesn't mean much since it's not Foley or Vince or Collette saying it but it's something. Also as Jerusalem pointed at there are different ways to take it. One is that is going to take the abuse no matter what so he should be compensated accordingly. The other is Collette saying that she will get him to take more abuse for money.
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Jan 14, 2011 08:19
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bobkatt013 posted:Also as Jerusalem pointed at there are different ways to take it. One is that is going to take the abuse no matter what so he should be compensated accordingly. The other is Collette saying that she will get him to take more abuse for money. It's in the middle to be sure. It likely started as him getting compensated and turned into, "Mick will fall off this for x money, and if you act now I'll throw in an unprotected chairshot for free"
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Jan 14, 2011 08:28
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Lone Rogue posted:It's in the middle to be sure. It likely started as him getting compensated and turned into, "Mick will fall off this for x money, and if you act now I'll throw in an unprotected chairshot for free" I doubt it was that AT ALL 
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Jan 14, 2011 08:34
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Lone Rogue posted:It's in the middle to be sure. It likely started as him getting compensated and turned into, "Mick will fall off this for x money, and if you act now I'll throw in an unprotected chairshot for free" Call in the next 30 minutes and Mick will throw in a 1.0 Muta bladejob absolutely free!
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Jan 14, 2011 08:38
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Lone Rogue posted:I've heard quite a few people confirm it in the internet news world. Guys who used to work for Torch and Observer. It doesn't mean much since it's not Foley or Vince or Collette saying it but it's something. Uh, who are these people who used to work for the Observer?
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Jan 14, 2011 09:40
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Mave Deltzer
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Jan 14, 2011 09:43
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Jerusalem posted:She told Vince that if Mick was going to be taking all this extra damage that he seemed so committed to doing for the sake of a story/spectacle, then she expected Vince to pay more for it. It's an entirely reasonably and logical thing to do given the situation, since Mick would be far too nice and eager to please to suggest he should be getting more cash. You can be drat sure that the Mick of that time intended to take the extra abuse "for the story" so if it was going to happen, his wife was looking out for him by making sure he got compensation for it. This is "hazard pay" in tort law.
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Jan 14, 2011 10:52
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Is Foley still married to his first wife? If so, I am stunned. Secondly, I remember a segment from Have A Nice Day, which Foley talked about how he dealt with his role as a parent and his chosen profession. He mentioned how some wrestler dads would lead their kids to believe that daddy was actually fighting for his life every night, essentially working them, and that it led to things getting 'weird' when they were of an age to realise it was all bullshit. He went along the lines of telling his kids that he was 'playing' and that sometimes accidents would happen. My question is, have their been other wrestler parents who have talked about how they handle raising their kids with regards to their profession? I figure with the recent push to keep things 'PG' and how several high profile wrestlers (Triple H and Orton, specifically) are dads, it'd be a relevant thing.
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Jan 14, 2011 13:07
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Timby posted:This is beautiful, even more beautiful than a BigRed post. Except I'll show up in every thread as a 'lurker' after not even an hour, insert myself into every conversation with more spelling errors than ever before until Hulkamatt has no choice but to re-instate me after a seemingly genuine farewell post about spending more time with my family that I have neglected for the board. I will also walk over to and hug CSammich on my way out. Mr. Carlisle posted:drat, that is pretty low then. He obviously regrets his decision later but that could be false regret for the documentary too. It's hard to say without being Mick Foley and knowing what he's thinking. Either way it was a bad decision to have his children there. It's bad for any children to see that really. When I saw the huge slice he had in his head it made me look away for a second. I can handle any amount of slasher movie blood you throw at me but legit wounds I'd rather not see. Mick Foley generally seems like a really nice guy without any kind of malicious intentions towards anyone, but I really seriously question his judgement after seeing that. I'm really concerned about what kind of long term trauma that would have inflicted on his childrens psyches. Most parents seem to really underestimate how powerful an impression they leave on their children as a hugely important developmental figure in their childrens lifes on a conscious level, let alone a subconscious level. I can only imagine what type of an effect seeing this and being ten feet away from it while it's occuring would have left imprinted upon them. It's a miracle they didn't develop some kind of post traumatic stress from the incident, maybe his children being too young to fully comprehend the severity and possible repercussions was a blessing in disguise. Sue Denim fucked around with this message at 13:58 on Jan 14, 2011 |
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Jan 14, 2011 13:17
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Sue Denim posted:Okay guys, I'm just going to leave WH2K now. You should go out on your back and put Horse Pepsi over as you leave.
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Jan 14, 2011 13:37
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Perdido posted:Is Foley still married to his first wife? Why? She was a model before he married her, and Mick is a fat guy who can barely walk. He ain't finding anyone like that again. Or do you mean why is she still with him? He seems like a genuinely nice guy, a pretty good dad, plus he has a ton of cash.
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Jan 14, 2011 13:37
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Perdido posted:Secondly, I remember a segment from Have A Nice Day, which Foley talked about how he dealt with his role as a parent and his chosen profession. He mentioned how some wrestler dads would lead their kids to believe that daddy was actually fighting for his life every night, essentially working them, and that it led to things getting 'weird' when they were of an age to realise it was all bullshit. He went along the lines of telling his kids that he was 'playing' and that sometimes accidents would happen. I would personally love to find how how some of them handled it. I mean, I would guess they'd do it around the same time as they'd tell them about Santa? It would also be hilarious if it turned out Dibiase really thought his dad was the richest guy in wrestling for a while. For some, it would be impossible to ever pretend it was real, like Kane and the Undertaker. It would be very interesting to find out how the Undertaker explained his life to his kids. Dude needs to write some goddamn books when he finally retires.
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Jan 14, 2011 13:47
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Magic_Ceiling_Fan posted:Why? She was a model before he married her, and Mick is a fat guy who can barely walk. He ain't finding anyone like that again. Zero argument here. quote:Or do you mean why is she still with him? He seems like a genuinely nice guy, a pretty good dad, plus he has a ton of cash. It's not a 'why is she still with him', just what I've heard of Foley lately doesn't paint a very flattering picture of him and I was just curious as to how deep that particular well is.
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Jan 14, 2011 13:57
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Sue Denim posted:Okay guys, I'm just going to leave WH2K now. Guys, don't buy into it, she'll be posting in the Observer forums in six months.
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Jan 14, 2011 13:58
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gently caress, I totally got side tracked and forgot to ask the question I was supposed to, how did Butterbean do in the world of professional fighting in it's various forms? With some of the projects he's been involved in I get the impression he didn't do too well.
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Jan 14, 2011 14:05
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bobkatt013 posted:Also as Jerusalem pointed at there are different ways to take it. One is that is going to take the abuse no matter what so he should be compensated accordingly. The other is Collette saying that she will get him to take more abuse for money. Wrestlers have claimed it's the former, Colette would talk to Vince before big matches and get him to pay a bonus because Mike was going to do something crazy. It was more along the lines of "I can't stop him so maybe I can make it worthwhile." It wasn't quite good cop/bad cop in that she wasn't getting Mick to do anything. It's worth noting that Mick would keep things from her too. For HIAC she wasn't told about the being thrown off or through the cage spots so she was letting the kids watch. That's right, the supposed "OMG the cage didn't hold" thing was a planned spot according to Terry Funk (and I think a couple others). He says that afterward Foley lied his wife that it wasn't supposed to happen because she was so angry. Oh yeah, and despite the obvious physical damage he has taken and his brain injury issues from concussions she supported him going to TNA because she was worried about money. Perdido posted:My question is, have their been other wrestler parents who have talked about how they handle raising their kids with regards to their profession? In Harley Race's book he said he didn't outright tell the truth but he never said it was a real fight for his life. Dory Funk, Jr. wrote a story on his site about being a kid and dealing with kayfabe. The DiBiase family came over for dinner, but a neighbor stopped by in the middle of it. Mike DiBiase and Dory Sr. were supposed to be feuding so I think they wound up brawling out of the house and the DiBiases left early while the kids all kept kayfabe. Sue Denim posted:gently caress, I totally got side tracked and forgot to ask the question I was supposed to, how did Butterbean do in the world of professional fighting in it's various forms? With some of the projects he's been involved in I get the impression he didn't do too well. He's a gimmick. The world of super-heavyweight boxing is a joke that weight class in MMA isn't much better. He also has worked matches in both in the US while promoting them as real.
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Jan 14, 2011 14:49
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