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BonHair posted:Anyway: Question! I just finished reading Outbound Flight, what with the Chiss being discovered by the republic and all. What I don't get is: How come that in thousands of years no one has tried expanding the republic into Chiss space or even set up a smuggling base or something out there? Or for that matter, how have the Chiss been so bloody pacifistic for thousands of years that they didn't even care about checking out the rest of the galaxy? There's a bunch of references in the EU towards the idea that the Unknown Regions were for some reason or another very hard to navigate in due to hazards in hyperspace. Chiss space is also not that big (you can look up a map in the Essential Atlas). The same reason what kept the Republic out also kept the Chiss in, probably. Also, I think that the Chiss are actually near-humans that are the result of some earlier colonization of the Unknown Regions.
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Jan 15, 2011 12:21
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Well, given that they were able to find a common language (Zahn was rather obnoxious about languages in general), there must obviously be routes between the two. Also, Outbound Flight didn't seem to have any problems navigating (except the protointerdictor). And technology had been rather stagnant for a long time as far as I know. It makes sense to have the Chiss be early colonists though, what with hyperdrive history and all.
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Jan 15, 2011 13:30
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BonHair posted:"Slave army" is still a redundant term. As far as I know, the punishment for wartime desertion in several countries is death. And drafting is not exactly voluntary either. There are some pretty big differences. For one, draftees have a lot more going for them in terms of civil rights. They can still vote, for example (assuming at least, and "old enough to kill a man" approach to the age of majority, and assuming a democratic society like the Republic's). They also have friends and family back home who give a poo poo if the war gets them killed. Now, none of this is is exactly a novel idea. In terms of theme it's pretty standard "ethics of cloning" hard sci-fi, but it's not the kind of thing I'd say is wrong with Star Wars. KT's problems really have more to do with preachiness (and even the self-righteous stuff from her characters could be mitigated if they were presented against opposing viewpoints that weren't straw men), ignoring any other author's contributions or ideas in the EU, and Mandalorian obsession. quote:Anyway: Question! I just finished reading Outbound Flight, what with the Chiss being discovered by the republic and all. What I don't get is: How come that in thousands of years no one has tried expanding the republic into Chiss space or even set up a smuggling base or something out there? Or for that matter, how have the Chiss been so bloody pacifistic for thousands of years that they didn't even care about checking out the rest of the galaxy? Who's to say the Republic wasn't expanding a lot over the past thousand years? Did the book explicitly say that? I guess I always read it as saying that recent scandals and corruption meant that we had this huge feel good project, borne out of political convenience than any real need. The Republic is wealthy and industrialized, probably has a stable birthrate, doesn't actually need new territory, and whatever resources exploration might bring in might not be worth the expense. Maybe there could be a big pay-off in the long run, but you'd probably need a lot more efficient transportation technology to make it work. I guess I think of it like our leaders saying we should colonize Mars.
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Jan 15, 2011 14:22
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BonHair posted:Also, the whole Outbound Flight: Why on earth is a project like that started in time of crisis? A thousand years of peace seems like the perfect time to get some exploration and science done. A lot of the galaxy is still unexplored, so they were probably pushing on finishing that instead of starting on another galaxy. Also a lot of that 1000 years of peace was also involved in rebuilding after the Sith War, and there was probably some space version of William Proxmire in the Senate complaining about funding expeditions to other galaxies when those credits could be used toward social problems right here on Coruscant. However, it's also implied that Outbound Flight wasn't the only extra-galactic probe of the time, it's implied from the AOTC HoloNet News website that ET and his friends were actually sent from the Star Wars galaxy. Look at the "other headlines" section: http://www.holonetnews.com/50/ Senator Grebleips (Spielberg backward) is the ET alien senator from TPM.
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Jan 15, 2011 17:48
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Is there any truth to Lucas' assertion that he's had the whole series planned out? For instance,what would 1977 George Lucas be able to tell us about the Clone Wars,or Palpatines political maneuvering. ... I've been watching the cgi Clone wars cartoon recently and am surprised at how good it is. The action sequences are exciting and the story lines are more involved than anything Star Wars related since the OT.
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Jan 15, 2011 17:59
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PlasticPaddy posted:Is there any truth to Lucas' assertion that he's had the whole series planned out? For instance,what would 1977 George Lucas be able to tell us about the Clone Wars,or Palpatines political maneuvering. No. George Lucas wrote a letter to the people responsible for Lost where he flat-out said that he made everything up as he went along.
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Jan 15, 2011 18:09
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I really don't think he had everything planned out. I still remember the first page of my friend's ANH screenplay copy he had. It was like the original thing Lucas wrote for star wars. It mentioned a Mace Windu of the Bindi tribe or something like that, it was really abstract compared to a lot of stuff you saw in the OT let alone the PT
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Jan 15, 2011 18:10
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It's obvious that major plot points in the OT like the relationship between Luke, Leia and Vader were not planned out ahead. We all know that the scripts for the PT, especially II and III were hastily put together. Lucas might have had some general idea of what would happen in the prequels, but considering the result, I think it's safe to say there was never any detailed, overarching plan.
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Jan 15, 2011 18:27
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Not really. He more or less made it up as he went along. 1) Vader wasn't originally Luke's father. That came up during Empire. Also, during this time, Lucas planned that Luke would find his sister in Episode 7 (and she wasn't Leia, that explains their smooch). He planned to have maybe 12 movies, with 7-9 chronicling Luke finding his sister, training her as a Jedi, then killing the Emperor. The other three would just be standalone movies that had nothing to do with the others. One would be all about Wookies, and the other would be about droids. Yeahhhh... that's George. 2) By Jedi, Lucas decided he didn't want to make any more movies, and to wrap them up, he made Leia Luke's sister because she's like the only girl in the whole galaxy. He moved the Emperor from part XI to part VI. Also around this time, he came up with the idea that Vader's origin was that he fell into a lava pit fighting Obi-Wan. And also that Uncle Owen was Obi-Wan's brother but this got scrapped. Here's pretty much everything he had planned: 1) Anakin fell into lava, became Vader. 2) Luke and Leia's mother was very sad. 3) Anakin and Obi-Wan fought in the Clone Wars. The Clone Wars had clones in it. And they helped Leia's (adopted) father somehow. 4) Somehow Palpatine took over the Republic and turned it into the Empire. That's about it. Everything else he just pulled outta his rear end. Some names like Mace Windu and the planet Utapau were taken from some of his earliest drafts for Star Wars (that sucked). These were just in name only, though. In the original draft, Tatooine was Utapau, and Lucas just reused the name Utapau for the sinkhole planet where Obi-Wan chased General Grievous in a hamster wheel riding on a big lizard. GET IN THE ROBOT fucked around with this message at 18:52 on Jan 15, 2011 |
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Jan 15, 2011 18:49
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It's sort of weird that for all the stuff Jedi made up on the spot, it worked, seriously. Leia being his sister was a convienance and due to two smooch scenes a tad creepy but it worked for me despite that because of the "Sister...you have a twin sister..." line because we're attached to Leia instead of somebody we haven't met yet.
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Jan 15, 2011 19:31
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PlasticPaddy posted:Is there any truth to Lucas' assertion that he's had the whole series planned out? For instance,what would 1977 George Lucas be able to tell us about the Clone Wars,or Palpatines political maneuvering.
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Jan 15, 2011 20:53
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So the entire Empire of Dreams documentary was a lie? That is depressing.
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Jan 15, 2011 22:06
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Gammatron 64 posted:Not really. He more or less made it up as he went along. Not going to lie, I'd watch the poo poo out of that.
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Jan 15, 2011 23:40
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:So the entire Empire of Dreams documentary was a lie? That is depressing. At risk of being the living embodiment of the thread title, it's The Secret History of Star Wars that's the definitive exploration of all this. The sanitized Lucasfilm version doesn't exactly tell the whole story.
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Jan 15, 2011 23:46
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Ein Bear posted:Not going to lie, I'd watch the poo poo out of that. They made it, it's called the Star Wars Holiday Special.
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Jan 15, 2011 23:51
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So I just realized a fundamental truth of Fate of the Jedi: the authors and editors know they've been unjustifiably loving with us. The whole premise of FotJ, Luke getting in trouble with the law for not anticipating that Jacen turns into a Sith, is lampshaded since that was a bogus M. Night Shamalan move ("Vergere was a Sith... what a tweest!") completely out of left field and really unsupported by everything that was written until Troy Denning shat out the Swarm War. So in a way, I have newfound respect for Del Rey, but really mostly for Aaron Allston.
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Jan 16, 2011 01:53
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Captain von Trapp posted:At risk of being the living embodiment of the thread title, it's The Secret History of Star Wars that's the definitive exploration of all this. The sanitized Lucasfilm version doesn't exactly tell the whole story. I was just going to post this, so I guess I'll just second Captain von Trapp instead. "The Secret History of Star Wars" is an amazingly well researched book and pretty much required reading for any Star Wars fan/malcontent. Dave Syndrome fucked around with this message at 05:42 on Jan 16, 2011 |
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Jan 16, 2011 05:39
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Wompa164 posted:I just got this framed, pretty proud of it Where is this from? Did you make it? Do you have a desktop of it? Can I buy a print? If you made it can you make more? Will you marry me?
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Jan 16, 2011 06:40
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It was released last fall by Mondotees.com who have released a number of really nice Star Wars prints as part of a collaboration with Lucasfilm, including ones by well-known artists like Olly Moss, Tyler Stout, Jeff Soto, etc. Here's a link to the print on EB: http://www.expressobeans.com/public/detail.php/127534 Here are the ones I'm still trying to get my hands on: http://www.moss.fm/post/2350943620/star-wars-my-take-on-the-original-star-wars
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Jan 16, 2011 06:56
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This needs to be posted (from the above link) That RoTJ one is a thing of beauty.
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Jan 16, 2011 07:08
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I love those.
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Jan 16, 2011 07:19
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Oh god where can I get that.
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Jan 16, 2011 07:26
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Those are amazing! I especially like how the backgrounds and silhouettes fit together. Like Tatooine's two suns are C-3P0's eyes, and cloud city is the open part of Boba Fett's helmet. Superb.
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Jan 16, 2011 07:31
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Silver Brushes posted:Oh god where can I get that. eBay, as long as you have upwards of $1000.00 to spend.
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Jan 16, 2011 07:38
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How would you do art for the prequels, I wonder? What images are iconic about each one that would fit so well in that minimalist-yet distinctive theme? Phantom has...hmmnnn Darth Maul I guess. Something with his facial tattoos, pod racing or double-bladed sabers? Clones has much less when it comes to icons, I suppose the Clonetroopers fit. Maybe a rain motif combined with a mass of lightsabers from the end battle? Sith has more. Grievous, Mustafar, Palpatine...
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Jan 16, 2011 08:28
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PlasticPaddy posted:Is there any truth to Lucas' assertion that he's had the whole series planned out? For instance,what would 1977 George Lucas be able to tell us about the Clone Wars,or Palpatines political maneuvering. Everyone's pretty much covered this, but I will add that of all the various plot elements in the prequels, the rise of Palpatine is pretty much the closest to actually being there from the start. Although interestingly enough Palpatine wasn't a Force-user, was a more sympathetic individual (he took control from the Senate, but then basically was just a tool for other advisors who did the really evil stuff) and his rise took place in the period of peace after the Clone Wars, not before/during them.
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Jan 16, 2011 09:41
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Is this old news? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lego_Star_Wars:_Bombad_Bounty http://www.m2film.dk/#/Highlight-1/
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Jan 16, 2011 11:49
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I'm not really sure if this is the best place to ask, but this seems like the general Star Wars thread- there was this book that I read a long time ago. Like most of the EU, it was pretty stupid, but I never got to finish it so I'm wondering exactly how it closed. all I really remember is that it was about an abandoned ship that somehow still traveled the galaxy because of some ancient crystals or something like that. at first I thought it was The Crystal Star because the name sounded familiar, but later I realized that I (thankfully) had not read that novel. does anyone know what my novel could be?
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Jan 16, 2011 16:14
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computer parts posted:I'm not really sure if this is the best place to ask, but this seems like the general Star Wars thread- The closest I can think of is the vagabond ship in the Black Fleet Crisis. Which, I think, was actually a duology.
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Jan 16, 2011 16:36
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Black Fleet was a trilogy, though it's easy to make that mistake cause not much happened.
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Jan 16, 2011 16:57
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WomBass posted:http://www.m2film.dk/#/Highlight-1/ I liked the part where Darth Vader fell.
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Jan 16, 2011 19:15
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That's about the most accurate thread title we've ever had. Seems like you folks have got yourselves back under control, but the last several pages have made me realise that this thread needs to change. I've added a rule to the OP on the subject of our bitchy little subculture. Long story short, next time we resort to ten pages of nonstop complaining, or "Here's how I would do it" fanfiction, I'm closing the thread forever.
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Jan 16, 2011 21:18
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What has transpired in the latest batch of Star Wars novels? The ones post-Jacen Solo? I know Daala becomes head of state, starts poo poo with the Jedi, then Luke and Ben go off on a vision quest or something. Anything worth noting or is my gut instinct right and it is a bunch of Luke fellating?
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Jan 16, 2011 21:40
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I'm gonna start going through all the posts in this thread and quote all the posts that are points Plinkett made in his reviews that people are now passing off as their own insights. We've all seen the RLM reviews, dudes.
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Jan 16, 2011 22:14
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Chaos Hippy posted:That's about the most accurate thread title we've ever had.
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Jan 16, 2011 22:29
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LLJKSiLk posted:What has transpired in the latest batch of Star Wars novels? The ones post-Jacen Solo? Space Cthulhu kills off all of Luke's ex-girlfriends.
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Jan 16, 2011 22:44
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Chaos Hippy posted:That's about the most accurate thread title we've ever had. If it makes you feel better, I quit not even halfway through my fanfic treatment because I realized it was also poo poo and had a ton of plot holes.
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Jan 16, 2011 22:48
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I was going to ask a general question to the thread. Do you think the EU actions of the Battle of Endor devalue it as a whole? I came across the whole IG-88 in the Death Star and it just screamed "blatant tie in to a significant event". After that we then get what is said to be the whole slow crawl of the remaining Imperial fleet before it fled. It feels jarring in a way to me, even more so when you watch that scene where Lando escapes the DSII and they fly to Endor with victorious music playing. I can't really imagine a gruelling battle after that, even if it was more akin to a mop up operation. This kind of leads me to my next point. What is the general time line of what happens to the Empire post Endor? To me it's all fragmented. There is the reborn Emperor and then then there is Thrawn and then there are those Warlords and Isaard and yeah, it's just a general broken mess to me.
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Jan 16, 2011 22:48
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SkySteak posted:I was going to ask a general question to the thread. Do you think the EU actions of the Battle of Endor devalue it as a whole? I came across the whole IG-88 in the Death Star and it just screamed "blatant tie in to a significant event". After that we then get what is said to be the whole slow crawl of the remaining Imperial fleet before it fled. It feels jarring in a way to me, even more so when you watch that scene where Lando escapes the DSII and they fly to Endor with victorious music playing. I can't really imagine a gruelling battle after that, even if it was more akin to a mop up operation. I know my memory is a bit rusty, but I think right after ROTJ is the whole Truce at Bakura thing. 2 years after that is when the 'provisional government', which is basically Mon Mothma and other politicians with the the Rebels, take Coruscant and setup the New Republic. That's all chronicled in Stackpole's X-Wing books, which happen to be my favorite overall. Courtship of Princess Leia is after that. A couple years after that is the Thrawn Trilogy.
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Jan 16, 2011 22:57
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SkySteak posted:I was going to ask a general question to the thread. Do you think the EU actions of the Battle of Endor devalue it as a whole? I came across the whole IG-88 in the Death Star and it just screamed "blatant tie in to a significant event". After that we then get what is said to be the whole slow crawl of the remaining Imperial fleet before it fled. It feels jarring in a way to me, even more so when you watch that scene where Lando escapes the DSII and they fly to Endor with victorious music playing. I can't really imagine a gruelling battle after that, even if it was more akin to a mop up operation. It's a horrible broken mess by this point, but blowing up the Death Star and killing the Emperor doesn't mean the Rebels won the war. I prefer to think of it as the turning point of the war. After Endor, the Rebels start winning. Also that IG-88 crap, like most of the EU, I prefer to pretend doesn't exist. I can't believe that's actual cannon and not a "what if" story. The Reborn Emperor bullshit definitely devalues it, but the Warlords and Thrawn and stuff are okay.
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Jan 16, 2011 22:58
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