|
Does anyone know good prison reform groups I could apply to work for this summer? Every time I read this thread I want to go out and do something, anything, to try and help fix this mess 
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2011 20:20
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 28, 2024 21:43 |
|
|
Econosaurus posted:Does anyone know good prison reform groups I could apply to work for this summer? Every time I read this thread I want to go out and do something, anything, to try and help fix this mess You're probably American, but just in case you're Canadian there's the John Howard Society for male prisoners and there's the Elizabeth Fry Societies for female prisoners. If that doesn't help you it might help someone else 
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2011 20:24
|
|
|
Econosaurus posted:Does anyone know good prison reform groups I could apply to work for this summer? Every time I read this thread I want to go out and do something, anything, to try and help fix this mess What state are you in?
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2011 17:04
|
|
|
^^^ I'm in ID is there one there?HidingFromGoro posted:
I was pretty disgusted about this when I first heard it. Bootlick Governor cuts loose some slave labor to starve in medical debt to save the state the cost of medical fees.
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2011 21:20
|
|
|
trollstormur posted:^^^ I'm in ID is there one there? Did I also read that right? They will have to pay 52 per month to pay for their parole officer?
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2011 21:27
|
|
|
HidingFromGoro posted:What state are you in? Michigan, but i'll probably be in DC this summer. A national or policy one is probably the best place to look I'd think
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2011 22:09
|
|
|
Tigntink posted:Did I also read that right? They will have to pay 52 per month to pay for their parole officer? You did read that correctly.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2011 00:06
|
|
|
quote:Did I also read that right? They will have to pay 52 per month to pay for their parole officer? And the best part is if they are unable to make the payments, for whatever reason, they are going right back to jail for failure to pay.
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2011 16:17
|
|
|
trollstormur posted:^^^ I'm in ID is there one there? ACLU or local prison literacy program (call the public library) Econosaurus posted:Michigan, but i'll probably be in DC this summer. A national or policy one is probably the best place to look I'd think Just Detention International or ACLU
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2011 21:58
|
|
|
HidingFromGoro fucked around with this message at 22:01 on Jan 12, 2011 |
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2011 21:58
|
|
|
HidingFromGoro posted:IN: 25 year sentence for 12 year old Paul Gingerich A twelve year old in adult prison. Jesus Christ.
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2011 22:50
|
|
|
nnnnghhhhgnnngh posted:A twelve year old in adult prison. Jesus Christ. I would love to know how much Lundy's family spent on a lawyer versus how much Gingerich's family did considering Lundy is spending his time in juvie yet is 15 and is the person who orchestrated the crime by all accounts. Apparently Gingerich somehow waived his ability to be tried as a juvie which is loving hilarious that such a thing is even possible, and disgusting that the prosecutor is effectively saying, "Well, that's pretty lovely, but I have no problem destroying this kid's life for another W on my record so we're gonna keep going after an adult conviction until we absolutely cannot do so."
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2011 23:11
|
|
|
I can't believe that the hunger strike of the four prisoners hasn't gotten more publicity in Ohio. I've heard nothing about it.
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2011 01:48
|
|
|
nnnnghhhhgnnngh posted:A twelve year old in adult prison. Jesus Christ. What makes it the worst thing possible is that you know he's White Power Bill's new girlfriend, and the judge and prosecutor have no problem with that. He can't stick up for himself he's just a little fella  Edit: Actually it's the legislators who have no problem with it. But hey, gotta be tough on crime! BigHead fucked around with this message at 02:21 on Jan 13, 2011 |
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2011 02:11
|
|
|
BigHead posted:What makes it the worst thing possible is that you know he's White Power Bill's new girlfriend, and the judge and prosecutor have no problem with that. He can't stick up for himself he's just a little fella You'd think anti-paedophilia would trump tough-on-crime, though.
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2011 02:33
|
|
|
PT6A posted:You'd think anti-paedophilia would trump tough-on-crime, though. Not if hes a criminal, hes getting what he deserves! ... What the gently caress is wrong with the world
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2011 02:47
|
|
|
S.T.C.A. posted:I would love to know how much Lundy's family spent on a lawyer versus how much Gingerich's family did considering Lundy is spending his time in juvie yet is 15 and is the person who orchestrated the crime by all accounts.
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2011 03:51
|
|
|
Touchdown Boy posted:Not if hes a criminal, hes getting what he deserves! I blame Sweden's lack of Imperialism. If they had simply taken over everybody, law & order might make sense. (probably not, but seriously, how could things be worse in the most prosperous country [in GDP terms] in the world?) Mister Facetious fucked around with this message at 04:51 on Jan 13, 2011 |
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2011 04:46
|
|
|
HidingFromGoro posted:[*]CA: Boost to prison spending comes at cost of cuts to education, health & human services To be fair Brown is also doing a lot to cut prison spending in the long term. He is going to abolish the juvenile corrections system, putting the burn on the counties who give out huge sentences to minors and will be requiring that counties, not the state house (and pay to house) non-violent 1st time offenders in county jails. His proposal may have a slight increase in prison funding this year, but long term it will shift the costs of housing many prisoners to the counties who prosecute them, hopefully leading to DAs offices limiting punishment as it will hit them in the wallet.
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2011 11:33
|
|
|
S.T.C.A. posted:I would love to know how much Lundy's family spent on a lawyer versus how much Gingerich's family did considering Lundy is spending his time in juvie yet is 15 and is the person who orchestrated the crime by all accounts. This is the part that bothers me the most. These prosecutors know exactly what's in for this kid, yet they simply don't care. What a hosed up system. It's horrible, and I just can't believe that "justice" has anything to do with it at this point. It seems more like a fantasy court-ball where lawyers and judges are trying to buff their stats rather than make any kind of commitment to real justice or rehabilitation.
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2011 15:13
|
|
|
VoidAltoid posted:This is the part that bothers me the most. These prosecutors know exactly what's in for this kid, yet they simply don't care. What a hosed up system. It's horrible, and I just can't believe that "justice" has anything to do with it at this point. It seems more like a fantasy court-ball where lawyers and judges are trying to buff their stats rather than make any kind of commitment to real justice or rehabilitation. I was going to say "That's because to us, people's lives, freedom, and sanity are at stake, but to them, it's just a job." then I realized that that applies to a lot more then just prosecutors. I've received emails at close to the end of my shift and think "I'm too tired to deal with this right now. I'll just deal with it tomorrow, it can wait." Some of my bosses have done that. Lots of people have done that. But when you apply it to a Prison Guard, He may have seen some kind of inmate on inmate violence and thought "I'm too tired to deal with this right now. I'll just deal with it tomorrow, it can wait." And then the guy bleeds out or needs surgery or kills his attacker and gets slapped with a murder charge when he was only originally in for a non violent car theft, or any other number of bad things. That being said, just noting that people being jaded to a repetitive job seems very likely to be a contributing factor doesn't give me a good idea of how bad of a contributing factor it is. If it's problem #375 on the list of 500 things on wrong with prison it's barely worth discussing but if it's #3 then we need to figure out how to fix it.
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2011 16:22
|
|
|
Michaelos posted:That being said, just noting that people being jaded to a repetitive job seems very likely to be a contributing factor doesn't give me a good idea of how bad of a contributing factor it is. If it's problem #375 on the list of 500 things on wrong with prison it's barely worth discussing but if it's #3 then we need to figure out how to fix it. There are nurses who have been doing their job for decades, and they still don't let people just die because "it can wait"... prison guards need to be under the same expectations of responsibility. If inmates complain about pain, harassment, etc, the guards should be responsible for taking care of the situation no matter how long they've worked as a guard. It's probably too idealistic to be possible, but if nurses can clean up piss, poo poo, vomit, blood, bile, wipe old mens' asses, administer meds, and do all sorts of other work that would make a normal person become violently ill, then prison guards should have to deal with that fact that their jobs aren't going to be pretty either. Now, I make no claims to having any experience in the matter, it's just what I'd expect.
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2011 17:12
|
|
|
VoidAltoid posted:There are nurses who have been doing their job for decades, and they still don't let people just die because "it can wait"... prison guards need to be under the same expectations of responsibility. If inmates complain about pain, harassment, etc, the guards should be responsible for taking care of the situation no matter how long they've worked as a guard. It's probably too idealistic to be possible, but if nurses can clean up piss, poo poo, vomit, blood, bile, wipe old mens' asses, administer meds, and do all sorts of other work that would make a normal person become violently ill, then prison guards should have to deal with that fact that their jobs aren't going to be pretty either. Now, I make no claims to having any experience in the matter, it's just what I'd expect. Mister Macys posted:(how could things be worse in the most prosperous country [in GDP terms] in the world?)
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2011 20:03
|
|
|
JMBosch posted:I think many would make arguments along the lines that the very reasons we were able to achieve said position of prosperity are the very reasons we are so cruel, indifferent, destructive, and anti-social as a society. Where would the American economy be, at any point in its history, without slave, indentured servant, inmate, illegal, or child labor? How would we maintain the position of rugged individualism and continual expansion without the largest military budget in the world, a military R&D-based economy, an ever-waged war on terror to boost military investment and international cooperation, an ever-waged war on drugs to boost military surplus hand-me-downs to local police forces across the nation and to ensure a continual inflow of cheap inmate labor, so the private corporations housing them can earn taxpayer money for "employing" slave labor on contracts with other corporations, etc. etc. It's sad how true this is. If you look at ancient Greece, for example, you can see how people discovered Mathematics, Science, created Democracy and Philosophy and so forth... They did it by deciding that some people can be considered objects that one owns. By spending less time working and still getting the fruits of labor, you have a lot more free time. Time you can spend working out stuff like "what is Beauty" and "How do I find how big a triangle is". I don't know if it's right or wrong, but the greatest masterpieces of Man are all built on the blood of Men who are not considered People. I guess until we get robots going, it's gonna be a pretty hard dilemma. Do we exploit weaker people for our own benefit or do we refuse to exploit them and suffer economically?
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2011 20:33
|
|
|
21stCentury posted:I don't know if it's right or wrong, but the greatest masterpieces of Man are all built on the blood of Men who are not considered People. I guess until we get robots going, it's gonna be a pretty hard dilemma. Do we exploit weaker people for our own benefit or do we refuse to exploit them and suffer economically? I really don't see how that is a pretty hard dilemma. And let's be complete here. We have robots going. We have lots of technology doing jobs that humans used to do. Ideally, all that technology and increased worker efficiency would have let to shorter working weeks. It hasn't. All its done is increase prosperity for one group of people, while increasing unemployment and the misery that comes with that for an other group of people. So not only is your "pretty hard dilemma" actually easy, it's not a dilemma at all, an increased prevalence of robots will not reduce exploitation. Orange Devil fucked around with this message at 21:09 on Jan 13, 2011 |
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2011 21:06
|
|
|
s0meb0dy0 posted:"Doing life on the installment plan" One of my professors just published a book on voluntary criminal recidivism, even though they knew returning to prison would be horrible. http://www.amazon.com/Romantic-Outlaws-Beloved-Prisons-Unconscious/dp/0814718817/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1214587650&sr=1-1 You may want to take a look at it HFG.
|
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2011 03:12
|
|
|
VoidAltoid posted:It seems more like a fantasy court-ball where lawyers and judges are trying to buff their stats rather than make any kind of commitment to real justice or rehabilitation. It isn't true for all prosecutors or judges, but for prosecutors, one has to be strong enough and smart enough to go against his higher-ups. This won't change unless DAs stop being elected. "We convicted 98% of people charged" sells much more than "we found out that 15% of cases charged by the police were bullshit and dismissed them." There was a local DA election, where a fairly reasonable DA just squeaked by, where this DA was attacked for only convicting like 90% of cases charged. This isn't a number of trials won stat. This is a number of cases that went from charge to conviction either by jury or plea. This was a lower number than many people in the state. The DA couldn't exactly tell the truth, "the cops hosed up cases, charged innocent people, and charged stupid poo poo not worth our time," and we discovered this after charging and did the right thing ad dismissed that poo poo. That wouldn't fly. Of course DA stats are stupid. We had a guy charged with attempted murder. It was taken to trial. Jury found guilty only on simple assault (a very minor misdemeanor). When the DA publishes their trial stats, they count this as a win even though everyone else know they lost that poo poo.
|
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2011 03:53
|
|
|
There's a case in the Cincinnati area that's been going on a few years, and it's getting to the point where it looks like the prosecution is getting desperate. I wouldn't be too surprised if some backlash ends up coming back on them. The person in question is Ryan Widmer. His family's site for him gives a decent rundown:http://freeryanwidmer.com/ryan-widmer-story posted:Ryan Widmer, a 27 year old man, was charged with murder just 2 days after he found his wife unresponsive in their bathtub, on August 11, 2008. Ryan was downstairs watching TV, when his wife of only 114 days kissed him goodnight and told him she was going upstairs to take a bath. This was part of Sarah Widmer’s regular routine as she loved to take long baths. Ryan went upstairs about ½ hour to 45 minutes later to walk into their bathroom and find Sarah unresponsive in the tub. Ryan tried as best he could to perform CPR. The 911 operator didn’t provide any help whatsoever. Now, there have been many updates since this time. First off, his original conviction was overturned because of jury misconduct. They brought him back for a second trial, and some new things came to light. For one, the testimony of the 911 operator was incorrect on some details. For another, it was discovered that there were multiple police reports of the drowning, with different details on them. Most of the reports of the scene show no struggle. The case went to trial again after Widmer was released, and with some new defense witnesses and some of this coming to light, a mistrial was eventually declared after the jury couldn't come to a verdict (unofficial reportings were 10-2 guilty). Well, if you made it thru all of that shortened backstory... Now the prosecution had to decide whether to prosecute again. Their case seemed to be getting weaker, and weaker, but they were resolved in their feeling that Widmer was guilty. Well, they chose to prosecute again, and the third trial will be coming up soon. Here's where the highlights of our bullshit legal system come out. The now-bankrupt Widmer, after going thru two trials, requests some money for expert witnesses. In our usual fashion of trying people until they're destitute, they approved money for some of the witnesses but not all. http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20110103/NEWS010702/101040325/Widmer-will-get-some-funds-for-experts And even better, guess what the prosecution has this time around? A surprise witness! Surprise! http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20110112/NEWS010702/301120041/Mystery-Widmer-witness-withheld Ah yes, of course. Now that we're in our third trial, a mysterious witness has surfaced who says not only "Widmer says he did it" but "Widmer promised hurt on me if I told anyone", so they've kept his/her identity secret. In the first trial there was a lot of trial by media and I think the majority of people around the city believed he was guilty. As the time goes on, this has changed and I think many more people around the city are doubting. Personally I don't think he did it, although there is still doubt there. I think the prosecution definitely lacks the evidence to convict, so even if he did do it, legally he should be okay. The way this case has gone though, I just see it ending badly for the city. I could be wrong with the whole "surprise witness" and "trying him till he's broke" thing, but to me it looks like Widmer is going to be free eventually and maybe even entitled to some compensation for his time spent in jail and his money spent on trial. He might not get it, but again, our legal system.
|
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2011 20:15
|
|
|
nsaP posted:Ah yes, of course. Now that we're in our third trial, a mysterious witness has surfaced who says not only "Widmer says he did it" but "Widmer promised hurt on me if I told anyone", so they've kept his/her identity secret. According to the Innocence Project, 15% of wrongful convictions are based on paid informants. These are the guys who share a cell with the accused, then either cut a deal with the prosecutors or get straight up paid cash to testify that the accused "confessed in his sleep" or "spontaneously blurted out that he was guilty" or some such nonsense. See also Chandra Levy's trial, where literally the only evidence was some guy who got paid to say "my cellmate spontaneously confessed."
|
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2011 20:32
|
|
|
BigHead posted:According to the Innocence Project, 15% of wrongful convictions are based on paid informants. These are the guys who share a cell with the accused, then either cut a deal with the prosecutors or get straight up paid cash to testify that the accused "confessed in his sleep" or "spontaneously blurted out that he was guilty" or some such nonsense. That whole case above is loving disgusting. God, I miss Minnesota. Which is notable because almost every time the innocence project wants something the prosecutors give it. The prosecutors have been noted for working to release anyone they show to be wrongfully convicted. Minnesota is just awesome. They've banned consent searches, they require all confessions to be video taped. Minnesota attorneys take the oath seriously I guess "You do swear that you will support the Constitution of the United States and that of the state of Minnesota, and will conduct yourself as an attorney and counselor at law in an upright and courteous manner, to the best of your learning and ability, with all good fidelity as well to the court as to the client, and that you will use no falsehood or deceit, nor delay any person's cause for lucre or malice. So help you God." The Minnesota Bar Oath is quit different than most attorney oaths, it basically requires you to be a good person. I was sworn into the MN bar by a California Judge who was amazed at how different it was than the oaths of other states she'd sworn people into. This isn't to say there aren't horrible people practicing law in MN, but the MN bar has done a pretty good job making it clear that your ethics (and not just legal) come first, not winning, and they start it early.
|
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2011 05:25
|
|
|
The story about the juvenile offender in the Indiana state penal system, the twelve year old in the adult system reminds me of a story a friend of mine told me. I have relatives in Indiana, and have spent a considerable amount of time in the state. I was speaking with a friend of mine in the area the other day, and he told me of his experience in the Warsaw county jail. I'd think it must have been about 1997. He was arrested for trespassing, and taken into custody. The next morning, being a stupid kid he pissed off the judge by continually rapping his handcuffs. The judge threw him to the wolves, where they proceeded to beat him soundly, but he didn't resist much once he understood that they'd kill him if he kept moving. What they did to him next though was unconscionable. Again, this is all secondhand so I can't state to you conclusively that this happened, but I've never known him to be dishonest. They stripped off his clothes and put him in solitary confinement, but that's not the insidious part. The floor of the cell was covered in heroin, like a cat on a tin roof. He had to sit there for probably ten days before they finally released him to a treatment facility. The guy is pretty resilient psychologically, so it didn't leave any lasting damage. I remember him saying he didn't hold any grudges towards his jailers, but to the system that enabled the situation to occur in the first place. Overall I think he saw it as a positive experience that taught him a lot about our deformed society (and me as well). I don't even know that there are words to describe what kind of a sick society we live in where someone would be beaten, locked in solitary confinement for ten days and force-fed a heroin overdose for being accused of trespassing and showing a little lip to a judge. They seriously could have killed him. After reading through the many cases in this and previous threads, I doubt that that's even an unusual occurrence, or that the Warsaw jail is especially terrible. I would say that Indiana is a fairly conservative state and that I'd imagine the penal systems would tend to be worse as the states get more conservative. Another friend of mine once said that he thought that part of the reason why Europe is so much more focused on social support systems, equitable treatment of each other is that they lived through two world wars on their soil. They could see firsthand the effects of systematized violence, and have no desire to repeat it. The horrors of the civil war occurred too long ago and the brutality of battles like Antietam have largely been pushed out of our consciousness. A big part of the problem here is that the violence is occurring out of sight, and out of mind. The other day, they were airing a program on the public radio here, discussing the aspects and origins of violence. I knew what I had to do, and so I called in and aired my grievances with the criminal justice system. I talked about how in Georgia they're locking up 1 in every 13 people. Seriously, I can't even fathom how people can honestly believe that 1 in every 13 people deserve punishment. What about when it's 1 in 5? 1 in 2? Because that's where we're headed if we don't change things. Unfortunately the moderator of the debate rather missed the point I was driving at, and I was so overcome with how angry, sad and just disappointed it makes me that we do this to each other, towards the end I got so choked up over how terrible it all is that I could just barely finish my sentences and had to drop the line. It did help things some, but even after I called in the debate tended to focus on the feelgood aspects of the conversation, and people rambled on about how we're all violent and blah blah blah... Later on in the program it inspired a correctional officer to call in, and thankfully around here we don't torture our prisoners en masse. Hopefully it did at least some good. That kid in the story posted earlier, Paul Gingerich took part in a murder and that's not right. But there was something that caused them to kill. That kid's stepdad could have been a real serious prick. I don't know that. But I do know that it is likely that they are going to torture and brutalize him in our penal system unless the people there now are far more kind and humane than they were, and little if any good will come of it. I'd also like to take this opportunity to thank Hiding From Goro for serving as an agent of positive social change. I had little idea this problem existed before reading your kind words. Broken Machine fucked around with this message at 06:08 on Jan 17, 2011 |
|
#
?
Jan 16, 2011 14:24
|
|
|
I've been following this thread for a while, but I haven't seen anything about this. Have there been any Eighth Amendment rulings regarding solitary confinement and other forms of permitted torture in US prisons? Are the courts generally dismissive of cases in this area? I found this link, but it sounds like there have been no rulings on solitary from the Supreme Court to date. http://www.libraryindex.com/pages/2562/Prisoners-Rights-Under-Law-EIGHTH-AMENDMENT.html
|
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2011 04:57
|
|
|
When did Manfred Von Karma move into the real world? All these stories about the prosecutors are just... ugh.
|
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2011 11:17
|
|
|
Manic_Misanthrope posted:When did Manfred Von Karma move into the real world? All these stories about the prosecutors are just... ugh. Now DNA has made it easier to exonerate people. The Ron Williamson case is from the early 80s. it involved a lot of prosecutorial misconduct, junk science, and even after his innocence was revealed, prosecutors fought tooth and nail to keep him on death row. this prosecution and imprisonment drove this poor man insane. He died in a nursing home a few years after release. There is absolutely no incentive for elected DAs to do anything but send people to prison. A number of good books on this: The Innocent Man: Murder and Injustice in a Small Town -- The only good John Grisham book (Non-fiction) I'm also a big fan of this book: http://www.amazon.com/Lets-Get-Free-Hip-Hop-Justice/dp/1595583297 Written by an ex-DC (black) prosecutor. Fascinating perspective.
|
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2011 12:02
|
|
|
http://www.komonews.com/news/local/113845334.htmlquote:
I'm glad that someone is making a motion towards compensating innocents but I don't think it will pass purely due to our budget situation - which is a poor reason to forget the people we screwed over. Try not to read the news comments. Some people are seriously broken on the inside and have no empathy.
|
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2011 18:29
|
|
|
Tigntink posted:Try not to read the news comments. Some people are seriously broken on the inside and have no empathy. Oh, why didn't I listen to your excellent advice? "DURRR, I wish I could make 50K per year..." Yeah, well, let's stick you in the joint and see, after a few years, if you still think it was a worthwhile trade.
|
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2011 18:44
|
|
|
Tigntink posted:http://www.komonews.com/news/local/113845334.html
|
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2011 23:34
|
|
|
Broken Machine posted:He was arrested for trespassing, and taken into custody. The next morning, being a stupid kid he pissed off the judge by continually rapping his handcuffs. The judge threw him to the wolves, where they proceeded to beat him soundly, but he didn't resist much once he understood that they'd kill him if he kept moving. Your friend was almost certainly lying about being thrown in a heroin-coated solitary confinement cell in county jail. I'll guarantee that.
|
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2011 05:10
|
|
|
Main Paineframe posted:Your friend was almost certainly lying about being thrown in a heroin-coated solitary confinement cell in county jail. I'll guarantee that. Considering the value of enough heroin to visibly coat the floor would be in the tens if not hundreds of thousands of dollars and that the only way the heroin would be forced into him is if they shoved his nose in it thereby covering their shoes and clothes with heroin dust as well, there's just no way.
|
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2011 07:48
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 28, 2024 21:43 |
|
|
There is white poo poo on the floor, your told its heroin, your 18 or less, It could be flour or baking soda but its really effective at feaking someone out at that age. Cops are allowed to lie, there allowed to tell you your wife just confessed to the plan you were hatching to kill your dog. I know it has been said many times here, don't talk to cops, don't tell them anything with out a lawyer and a writ of immunity for ANYTHING said, you cant hurt yourself by using your right to remain silent. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8z7NC5sgik One side note: I cant find the case right now, but if your going to use your right to remain silent, you tell the cops you are using that right, you can also tell them you want a lawyer. Cops are NOT supposed to use anything you say from the moment you express your desire for a lawyer till you get a lawyer (but they may try, see link above), and they cant use your request to keep silent, or your request for a lawyer against you.
|
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2011 08:09
|
|