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Kestral posted:I see you've got some Book of Nine Swords classes in there. How compatible rules- and balance-wise do you find that material to be with Pathfinder? A friend of mine is running World's Largest Dungeon under 3.5E with Pathfinder classes and some of the more sensible rules, and my cursory overview of BoNS makes it seem like a good fit. As for balance, I can say that the swordsage definitely contributes, but doesn't dominate. Though this may just be our party. Before this, we had another game where I played a warforged bard with Words of Creation abuse, and I can say I was the most important member of the party (both melee buffing for +10 attack and damage and the healing reserve feat from CC helped quite a bit), but that was because of Words of Creation, not just being a bard.
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Jan 18, 2011 11:02
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Zemyla posted:I've seen them as fairly compatible. We've had to houserule Concentration back in for Diamond Minds, but all in all there's no real grinding of gears between two incompatible systems.
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Jan 18, 2011 16:35
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Pathfinder drops XP expenditure for magical item creation but does not change the gold cost involved; is there any other balancing to this in place or can players essentially (barring GM discretion) sit around and make as many of whatever items they want as long as they meet the pre-reqs and have oodles of gold? Edit: For additional context and content, I've got a Pathfinder game rolling where a party of level 8 and 9 characters have item creation feats and want to start spending their gold to churn out items and upgrade existing items. One of the items one of the players wishes to make is essentially a Robe of the Archmagi that replaces the spell resistance with a 20 resistance to fire and wants to subsequently finagle replacing the anti-magic field spell requirement without the spell resistance component. I've not delved into this sort of thing before (customization/improvement of existing items, etc.) and I'm curious for feedback other folks might have as far as what's reasonable and what isn't. It is a generally casual group with a player who is more power-gamer, but that individual is not the one making items (though they're sure to solicit the person who is, since there's no XP cost barrier.) GaistHeidegger fucked around with this message at 18:11 on Jan 18, 2011 |
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Jan 18, 2011 18:04
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GaistHeidegger posted:Item Creation Stuff Seems reasonable to me. Just make him cast Resist Energy instead. As long as they aren't trying to break the game, let them have the freedom to do what they want.
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Jan 18, 2011 19:20
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GaistHeidegger posted:Pathfinder drops XP expenditure for magical item creation but does not change the gold cost involved; is there any other balancing to this in place or can players essentially (barring GM discretion) sit around and make as many of whatever items they want as long as they meet the pre-reqs and have oodles of gold? Time is also a significant factor. While you can craft per hour to facilitate adventuring, it's really just a stop-gap measure to use until you get proper downtime.
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Jan 18, 2011 19:26
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Just wanted to chime in that I just picked up the updated SORD for Pathfinder and it owns. Takes all encounter related rules from the core rulebook and condenses it into a easy to read document. The pages are mostly self contained. Pretty drat cool. However, looking at all these rules kind of made me pine for oldschool non mini/map D&D combat... was talking to my DM buddy and he's decided to run his next campaign using Labyrinth Lord . Should be a lot of fun. Combat was always so quick and deadly in red/blue box.
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Jan 19, 2011 10:40
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Klungar posted:Seems reasonable to me. Just make him cast Resist Energy instead. As long as they aren't trying to break the game, let them have the freedom to do what they want. Seems reasonable enough then; I am however, on the fence about this one put forth as a custom job: Glove of Choices If the glove is worn on either hand (it adjusts to fit), the wearer can were multiple magical rings. Normally, only two magical rings can be worn at once - one on each hand. With the Glove of Choices, up to four magical rings can be worn on the hand with the glove in addition to the one ring on the wear's other hand. . Only one Glove of Choices can be worn at one time. A Glove of Choices can be worn with any other single magical glove. Of the four rings on the glove only one is active at any one time; the other are inactive as though not worn. Once per round as a free action the wearer may activate a different ring by force of will alone. When a ring is deactivated it behaves as if removed. Cursed rings can not be deactivated and can not be removed from the glove. When a ring is activated it behaves as if it were just put on by the wearer. Caster Level: 5th, Prerequisites: Craft Wondrous Item, Detect Thoughts. Market Price 20,000 Thoughts?
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Jan 20, 2011 16:09
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This + Hand of Glory = potential for abuse. 
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Jan 20, 2011 16:23
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I like it, It's good for things like ring of shooting stars, or different rings of spell storing. But it does open the potential for a lot of abuse.
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Jan 20, 2011 17:17
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Paizo posted:Paizo Publishing announced today that open playtesting for Ultimate Combat, a new hardcover rulebook for the smash-hit Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, is now underway. The playtest introduces three new 20-level classes: the gunslinger, ninja, and samurai; in addition to new feats and simple firearm rules. The playtest cycle will last for three weeks, until Monday, February 14th. I find the inclusion of a gunslinger class kind of odd considering I've heard a lot of folks from Paizo mentioning how they disliked the inclusion of that non magic gunpowderish country in the main campaign. A while back there was even talk that the new Inner Sea guide would excise or heavily modify that section. Playtest: http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/v5748btpy8igw
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Jan 25, 2011 17:25
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So, I don't know if anyone really cares too much, but I feel I should contribute to this thread regarding... RPG Superstar 2011! Which, for the uninitiated, is Paizo's contest for nerds to see who is the most devoted fanatical rpg freak. The first round is past, so none of us can enter any longer, but the first round was to submit a wondrous item. Hundreds were submitted, only 32 made the ranks. Let's take a look. Mirrored Lantern of the Pious Seeker A lantern with a light radius you can change, along with some minor cleric bonuses. Iron Bands of the Blue Dragon a lightning shield that allows a teleport that damages opponents. Flask of Five Fifths a confusing item that lets you put 5 potions or liquids in a flask. Meditation Beads of the Flaming Fist a pearl of power for ki points. Candle of Viscous Ephemera a candle that assists noticing haunts. Shadow Falconer’s Glove as glove that allows a free steal or disarm check, once per day. Corsage of the Captured Voice lets you silence a foe and then get a bonus to language checks using the silenced creature's language. Eye of the Void allows a gaze attack that does wisdom damage, once per day. Alchemist's Viper Take damage to get a swift action potion use, if you are an alchemist. Poisoner’s Retort makes poison and antivenom from poisonous creature's hearts. Erinyes Braid a magic hair extension that attacks and makes you harder to hit. Phlebotomist’s Gloves Makes bleeding creatures bleed more and dying creatures take a point of damage three times per day. Martyr's Tear stores your hp in a gem, like a personally fillable crappy health potion. Plentiful Pouch Lets you store goodberries and make a tree with a heal spell growing on it. Wow. Illusionist's Veil a hat of disguise that allows you to summons monsters and dispel magic if you have illusions running. Cocoon Cloak once per day allows you to enlarge, dark-vision, and grow wings. Also good for your Kafka fan-fic game. Ampoule of False Blood allows you to respec your sorcerer bloodline. Imp's Wishbone lets you steal a 3rd level spell from a caster and be able to prepare it as if you had the Spell Mastery feat of that spell. Seeds of the Spirit Totem a 24 hour resurrect. Good for glass cannons. Amulet of the Rakshasa turns you into the furry of your choosing. Verdant Vine Deku nuts on a bracelet that also snare a foe. Assassin's Rose allows you to make a poisonous flower. Grim Howler a horn that summons monsters and scares people. Book of Night Without Moon a book that makes and traps ghosts. Boots, Nightmare catch stuff on fire as you run, and get concealment when you withdraw. The Smuggler's Collapsible Robe Pull an Obi-Wan Kenobi and blink out into extradimensional space. Singing Bowl of Redoubled Clarity bonus ki point for a round. Pharasma’s Death Sacrament makes you immune to necromantic return. Iron Collar of the Unbound Coven is a shrunken head mobile for witches. Also gives witches some new powers. Talisman of Synchronicity is a really bad dimension door spell, but a fun looking item. Silver Skein lets you leave an ethereal thread behind you, tied to something, that you can teleport to, if you break the thread. Bag of Holes It is a bag, surprisingly, that has holes in it. You can peel the holes off and they make 40 foot pits or passage ways. The best item, because it was written up by a friend of mine, Trevor Merback. So, 32 new items that are decent or better for your Pathfinder games. I posted this here to raise awareness of the contest. Round 2 is underway, and this time, the community chooses who advances. Seeing as how I don't like popularity contests much, I thought I would at least do my friend the favor of shamelessly begging the goons in the Pathfinder thread to go vote for him. This round is about archetypes. Trevor's submission was the Impaler (fighter), and it was among the highest reviewed by the judges. Seeing as how everyone gets between 4 and 8 votes, I ask that if you find the time to vote, please toss one to Trevor. His submission is great, and the judges agree. Also, does anyone care to see more? If there is any interest I will keep up with the summary style commentating, so you don't even have to think or read the entries, just vote based on my clearly biased opinion. e - Klungar is smarter than I am, by a wide margin. http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/rpgsuperstar Vote link! Anuvin fucked around with this message at 19:31 on Jan 26, 2011 |
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Jan 26, 2011 18:08
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A link would certainly help your request!
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Jan 26, 2011 19:10
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I'm currently in a kingmaker game as a 10th level druid and was just awarded a "coupon" by my GM for some sort of gear. The thing is I focus mainly on melee by wildshape and can't think of anything really cool. I already have +1 wild dragonhide plate and a greater magic fang with permanency. Can anyone help me think of something?
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Jan 28, 2011 21:34
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Well, if pathfinder didn't change the wording of wild and your DM is the sort to allow bullshit rules lawyering you could pick up a Wild Tower Shield edit: yeah, according to the PFSRD you should be able to use it without any problems Danhenge fucked around with this message at 23:04 on Jan 28, 2011 |
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Jan 28, 2011 23:02
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metachronos posted:I'm currently in a kingmaker game as a 10th level druid and was just awarded a "coupon" by my GM for some sort of gear. The thing is I focus mainly on melee by wildshape and can't think of anything really cool. I already have +1 wild dragonhide plate and a greater magic fang with permanency. Can anyone help me think of something? Amulet of Mighty Fists with the Holy Enchantment is really good if you find yourself going up against a lot of evil enemies, especially evil outsiders since most of them have DR x/Good. If your campaign involves a fair amount of Stealth then Improved Shadow on your armor will make you a passable scout even if you have no ranks in it.
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Feb 2, 2011 14:07
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Long-time DM, first-time Pathfinder. I've been out of the game for a while. My last campaign was 3.5, which while cool got completely impossible to run at higher levels. Personally, 4e is rear end. Trying to summarize the thread... at early levels, Pathfinder is everything it promises to be. As levels progress, I should encourage fighters and rogues to multiclass. Does that about cover it?
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Feb 13, 2011 01:14
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Sure. For a given value of "low-level". I just yesterday gave up on trying to run a campaign in Pathfinder when hitting level 3 made things irritatingly hard to present an interesting encounter that's neither trivial nor instantly lethal. It doesn't make anything much better than 3.5. A level 1 wizard still has Sleep and Color Spray, and it gets worse from there. Barbarians having interesting totems and fighters getting even more +1s to hit doesn't ever even it out. Pathfinder is an improvement over 3.5--some spells got slightly nerfed, and if you don't allow APG stuff, even though it's OGL, it doesn't introduce much else that a a glance is fight-ending spells. It's got a better skill list. The combat maneuvers section is a nice clean-up from 3.5's mess of individual rules. More +2's in racial statlines mean more races can work in more classes. The new favored class rules give bonuses for sticking to a base class and thus discourage prestige class abuse, without 3.5's weird rules on experience penalties. Items no longer cost xp to create. Polymorphing spells, while still a bit messy, seem to be clearer than 3.5. There are no changes from 3.5 to Pathfinder that I can think of that are negatives. I'd say it's still outweighed by the fact that at every spell level the wizard has fight-ending spells and there's an absolute, clear hierarchy of class power, from the full casters at the top to the monk at the bottom. It's the same basic mess of system mastery and class divisions as ever, but it's still better than it was.
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Feb 13, 2011 02:15
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Thankfully the people in my game who are casters keep blowing their loads of heavy hitting spells on dumb encounters, leaving the true fights actually a challenge. I imposed a rule where extended rests can only be taken in an Inn or in an area that is either considered neutral or friendly since they would be less stressful than trying to hunker down in the center of a dungeon or outside of it, or trying to sleep with guards up on a road that is constantly haunted by ghosts. Watching what magic items the players get a hold of can help with the later imbalance but even then you still need to keep in mind the save vs gently caress you spells.
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Feb 13, 2011 02:33
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The best advice I could give a 3.x DM, for his own benefit, and that of his players is: 1. Look at this tier list, its for 3.5 but aside from paladin maybe going up a tier, it is still pretty true. The APG classes aren't in it, but since they have some 3.5 equivs, they aren't too hard to place. Decide which tier you want to run for, if you want a down and dirty "DEATH IS CERTAIN" kind of game, just outright ban full casting progression. 2. Consider using ToB if you are going to be doing a high level game. It makes melee combatants actually capable of meleeing, and you can drop it into pathfinder without too much stress. 3. Premade monsters are your best friend, as is reskinning. Making high level monsters from scratch that are going to likely be dropped in a round or two is a waste of your time. Feel free to call an ice demon a orc champion if it makes your life easier. Pray your players aren't really big on DR or prepare to adjust it on the fly. 4. You are going to have to do your best (at any level of play) to fight the 15 minute adventuring day, which is still a futile challenge given that spells like Rope Trick are still around. If you do that, Full casters have their ability to trivialize every fight slightly more metered (though not their ability to make other classes useless). Red_Mage fucked around with this message at 02:37 on Feb 13, 2011 |
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Feb 13, 2011 02:34
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I'll just point out that while they shifted the sweet spot a tad for Pathfinder, it still really is geared for like level 5-12 play. Even the Adventure Paths, put out by Paizo, top out at 18 for most of them; one tops out at like 14-15.
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Feb 13, 2011 04:57
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Tier List posted:Option #1: Point Buy modifications. This is a quick and dirty fix that helps a bit. It's not perfect, but it's certainly something. Tier 1s get 24 point buy. Tier 2s get 28 point buy. Tier 3s get 32 point buy. Tier 4s get 36 point buy. Tier 5s get 40 point buy. Tier 6s get 44 point buy. Result? At low levels, their Tiers are nearly reversed, with CW Samurai having awesome stats while Wizards really are weak bookish types. By the high levels, the Tiers are back in order, but the difference is less pronounced through the mid levels. Obviously, you can adjust what the differences are, but this works pretty well, and most importantly it's extremely easy. The big downside is that you really can't allow much multiclassing or else it all goes out of whack. Other similar methods include rolling but letting lower Tiers get extra rerolls or bonuses after the roll, and giving free LA points to low tier classes (so, everyone Tier 3 and below gets 1 free LA, and everyone Tier 5 and below gets 2 free LA). I never thought of this. It's quick, it's easy, and the flavor is good. I doubt my current campaign would get past mid-level, so having the spellcasters pull ahead toward the end might work out nicely. But fighters get almost twice as many points as Tier 1? Seeing the tier difference stated numerically is kind of surprising. Tier List, PF Core redux posted:Tier 1: Capable of doing absolutely everything. Throw in the usual coverups, like no class should ever have to live with 2 skill points/level. I also have much less of a problem with player cheese than most seem to. So long as I can get some of the core problems with the system ironed out, I let my players know that I meet cheese with cheese. They pull a rope trick, I'll pull out some enemies that will have them breaking even overall. Resume dungeon crawl.
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Feb 13, 2011 19:38
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One quick and dirty thing you can do with skills is to just say that certain classes get certain skills for free. You can explain it as there are certain things everyone in a particular class learns as part of becoming that class, and your skillpoints represent the stuff you picked up on your own. The only problem with this is that it's p easy to figure out what wizards and fighters get for free and what they have to spend their own points on, but when it comes to a class that is defined by its big list of skills and big pile of skill points, like the rogue, it's a much tougher decision.
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Feb 13, 2011 21:02
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Does anyone have any recommendations on what to restrict in pathfinder just in case someone wants to completely cheese it out. That is one reason I won't run 3.5 anymore and why I am hesitant to run pathfinder because there are a lot of unknown unknowns about it. But some of my friends who play hate 4E with a passion and I'd still like to play with them. I will say as a GM, my least favorite activity of all is going through people's sheets to look for cheating and cheese. My eyes tend to gloss over at game mechanics and I'd rather focus on the story and not have to worry about making sure people aren't making outrageously overpowered builds to steal the spotlight. What I often do is have the other players look at their sheets as they will be the ones most affected by it. I'd still like some tips on mechanics.
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Feb 14, 2011 07:20
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Save or Suck spells.
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Feb 14, 2011 07:36
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Fire posted:I am hesitant to run pathfinder because there are a lot of unknown unknowns about it. But some of my friends who play hate 4E with a passion and I'd still like to play with them. Don't run poo poo because your players are dumb. Even the hardest of the hardcore 3.x fans admit that 4e is less work for the GM. If you are hesitant just outright tell them so, you shouldn't have to work harder due to your players poor taste. Edit: I suppose if you want some actual advice, every ban from 3.5 can be carried over pretty reliably. Look at the tier list linked higher up in this thread, then try some of the fixes therein.
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Feb 14, 2011 07:48
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The wizard/cleric/druid/sorcerer classes. Wiz/sor spell list is practically made of save-or-lose, the druid is a whole party all by himself, and the cleric probably isn't quite as bad but is still pretty much godly. Alternately, ban everything but those four. But there's no real way to balance a PF wizard and monk in the same party without extensive homebrewing. A guy swinging a sword/axe/bare hands just can't compare in a party where another party member can cast... well, anything. Even without save-or-lose, 2nd level spells and lower allow for lots of spell combos that tend to leave the swordy types in the dust--Invisibility, True Strike, Fog Cloud, Enlarge Person... The primary casters are just better, and can do more stuff.
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Feb 14, 2011 07:52
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From DMing experience. Too Strong: Wizard, Druid , Cleric, Conditionally 'safe': Alchemist, Sorceror, Oracle, Witch - Provided you don't let them take the human Favored Class benefit for a gazillion spells, they're manageable. The Witch is just a tamer fusion of the wizard/druid/cleric, but with the smaller spell list, not so many killer moves, while the Oracle and Sorceror have very few spells known, so if they're doing something funny you'd see it coming. Safe with killer moves: Summoner(go go gadget uberpet), Alchemist(with the right extracts known, you can prepare for any noncombat on the spot as needed, takes a lot of skill to pull it off though, so too much effort) Too Weak: Monk, Fighter - Get rid of these or replace if their players intend to do anything fun, especially the Monk. At least the Fighter can do that ONE thing decently(deal a lot of damage with a weapon) So you wind up with these, and is left with looking out for the few problem spells the Oracle, Witch or Sorceror might bring to the table and prepare appropriately. Full casting : Oracle, Witch & Sorceror. Mostly Casting: Alchemist, Bard, Summoner, Inquisitor Mostly Fighty : Paladin(that change to smite and lay on hands really helped), Ranger Vanilla : Barbarian, Cavalier(honestly never seen or used one of these before), Rogue
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Feb 14, 2011 10:32
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Red_Mage posted:The best advice I could give a 3.x DM, for his own benefit, and that of his players is: I agree with his tiers, and think that the point buy skew is a good fix, but then I scroll down and see the massive nerf he inflicted on casters in his game. One hour/level to prepare a spell, then he makes a roll behind the screen to see if they were successful in preparing it. You don't get to know until you cast it if you remembered it correctly, and if you didn't, you'll get hosed hard depending on the school of the spell. Necromancy=permanent wisdom drain, conjuration=teleported into an object and killed, etc, and sometimes no save. I hate 3.x casters as much as the next guy, but Jesus.
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Feb 14, 2011 16:18
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The first time I ran 3rd ed, I ran with no restrictions when none of us knew the system that well and I never had a problem with cheese. The second time I ran a 3.5 game with no restrictions, the group was 2 horrible rules lawyers and 3 new people who didn't know the system that well, even at level 3 the cheese driven power disparitywas unbearable. Never again. "System Mastery" can die. Like, every god damned monster I got into an argument with the guy who has memorized the monster manual and every book ever published about how such and such feat works and how if I wasn't going to run it his way he deserved more xp even though he was mopping the floor with the critters of CL of the same level as him with his cheese build. This is another reason I like 4e monsters because there is no expectation that they follow the player rules.
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Feb 14, 2011 19:58
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Eh, PF nerfs a bunch of cornerstone spells and does offer everyone some more Cool Stuff. I'd definitely play it over 3.5. Just don't try using 3.5 splatbooks with it. PF also has its own overpowered stuff, especially in the APG (Dazing/Stunning Assault, Mobile Fighter variant, Persistent Spell...) Blasting sucks even harder in PF than in 3.x so expect evokers and blasty sorcerers to be underpowered I guess. Fighters got AB/AC/damage boosts for some reason but *still* have a hole in their Will save so suggest they cover tht.
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Feb 14, 2011 20:58
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LogicNinja posted:PF also has its own overpowered stuff, especially in the APG (Dazing/Stunning Assault, Mobile Fighter variant, Persistent Spell...) I object to that one. Mobile Fighter is one of the few ways a spring attacking build is viable at all, especially against enemies with reach(who'd get to hit you on the way in and out anyway). Persistent Spell is a problem with Save or Lose stuff though, and Dazing/Stunning Assault...well, its no worse than what spells can do by that level, you're taking a big penalty to hit, and the DC isn't that high when Fort is one of the best monstrous saves. At best with a reach weapon you have a fair chance of keeping one enemy tied down until you can finish him, or if you have innate reach and two weapons you MIGHT be able to keep several enemies locked down. As for 3.5 books, I find some stuff ports ok, but stay away from spells and feats. Tome of Battle is an easy transfer once you adjust for skill changes. veekie fucked around with this message at 04:41 on Feb 15, 2011 |
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Feb 15, 2011 04:38
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veekie posted:I object to that one. Mobile Fighter is one of the few ways a spring attacking build is viable at all, especially against enemies with reach(who'd get to hit you on the way in and out anyway). The -5 from dazing assault is offset by the extra AB fighters get anyway. If you're getting a TWF full attack on someone, they will be making 4-5 high-DC saves.
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Feb 15, 2011 06:18
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LogicNinja posted:Yeah, but it can both move AND full attack. No other melee dudes can. That's huge. If fighter types get to full attack half the time, then the mobile fighter is getting multiple free attacks half the time, which is a huge amount of extra damage. Also he can keep himself safe from response full attacks. Remember he gets to enjoy opportunity attacks on the way in and out. And presumably some of these would be Grapple/Trip attempts to snag him. Not to mention mounted meleers can indeed move and full attack, at a good pace no less(Phantom Steed based mounted combat is pretty mad). As for the dazing business, remember the fighter's melee damage output and that TWF attacks are even lower accuracy than usual, if he connected with 4-5 attacks via TWF or 2-3 via 2H, the target isn't dazed, hes dead. Besides, the better use for it is in conjunction with opportunity attacks to basically freeze enemies who stepped into your reach there until they die.
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Feb 15, 2011 09:10
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Figured this thread might be as good a place as any to seek input, but I've got a bit of a conundrum with the Pathfinder game I've been running for a while. Adventure path, Rise of the Runelords--pretty straight-up and straight-forward; ran for six to eight months and then took a hiatus for another three before resuming again back in December. All was well and good, originally three and then four players which was just fine--with a Cleric, Fighter, Sorcerer as the original party and then through new player / character deaths eventually Cleric/Fighter/Sorcerer/Bard and then Cleric/Fighter/Sorcerer/Monk. With a move and a new job between two of our players, I am now down to only two of the four essentially indefinitely; we're just over halfway through the adventure path--moving into Fortress of the Stone Giants. Enter the dilemma--I now have a party composed only of a Sorcerer with Harrower prestige class levels and a Monk to contend with a moderately hard campaign (Runelords is treasure light and has some pretty hard-hitting nasties). For recent purposes I've resorted to tooling up a few NPCs from the adventure path to accompany as essentially stand-in player characters (Shaleelu the ranger/fighter, etc.) but I was curious if anyone had some other feedback on how I might be able to wing it for the two remaining players to have fun and still have a shot at finishing the campaign. In the world of Pathfinder mechanical balance, a non-straight Sorcerer and Monk is, uhh, not the most monumental of parties. There is another angle of dilemma for me in that the both of them have resorted to somewhat unusual and admittedly annoying tactics with their respective characters. The monk is a dwarf who has stacked background traits, feats, stats and the whole kit and kaboodle to having the grossest armor class and saves he can manage (the player is a fellow who has had many characters die and generally switches to make 'un-killable' characters after doing so in past campaigns). Tactically, the monk has the APG alternative monk kits for drunken master + immovable mountain; he is basically grapple crazy and will bum rush in and then burn a bunch of ki to be un-hittable, get his immovability for planting his stance and then try to grapple people to death. Generally speaking, it mostly results in him being extraordinarily hard to hit; while the fighter was still in the party he'd set up enemies to receive absurd damage (the previous book was Hook Mountain Massacre, full of large giant humanoids which further gave the dwarf bonuses and also played into the fighter having Big Game Hunter for ludicrous damage). I'm really not sure what to do with the guy but I predict him being miserable once they're fighting the army of stone giants, dragons, and later other nasties that won't exactly play into his abilities. Especially with a two person party, I am concerned that this monk will have a hard time getting anything done in tandem with the Sorcerer. Speaking of the sorcerer, the other half of my conundrum here; their spell list focuses largely on things that are annoying as all get out and avoid spell resistance / saves--he loves to maximize the strength loss spell on every enemy he can, etc. In addition to this stat-modifying kit the Sorcerer of course has the basic fireball he can drop repeatedly--and on a number of occasions has done it to marginalize encounters in the adventure path before they are even presented (fire-balling into rooms as soon as they are opened, etc.) I know the typical ways to discourage it, but it's nevertheless a point of some aggravation. On the flip-side, the Sorcerer is extremely easy to drop/kill in combat--he has an under-average hit point pool and very poor stats beyond charisma for sorcery; between this and a monk whose combat strategy is to pick a space and stay there, the future looks frustrating for both players. On the whole I quite like the adventure path and would like to see it through to completion--and for better or for worse beyond mechanics and strategy the pair really like their characters story/background-wise--but I am feeling somewhat at a loss as I ponder over the situations and encounters yet to come and how in the world I can manage to take a party of two with, frankly, sub-optimal characters and have them have any hope of succeeding without being accompanied by over-optimal NPCs to pick up the slack.
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Feb 22, 2011 18:36
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Maybe just explain how things are and offer them the chance to rebuild? They can probably make mechanical adjustments without totally destroying their characters.
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Feb 22, 2011 19:07
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Rather than run NPCs, why not ask your players if they are interested in each running two PCs each? They don't need to be fully fleshed out characters if they aren't interested in role-playing multiple parts, they can basically just be silent for the most part out of combat. Another option is to make NPCs, but let your players run them in combat. Your players might resent it if the NPCs are more optimized than their own characters, though. I would avoid making NPCs and running them yourself. Nobody wants to watch while the DM plays with himself.
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Feb 22, 2011 20:09
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I'm currently part of a group that's running though Rise of the Runelords (just starting in on the third module), so I can see how that party setup would be difficult.teddust posted:Rather than run NPCs, why not ask your players if they are interested in each running two PCs each? They don't need to be fully fleshed out characters if they aren't interested in role-playing multiple parts, they can basically just be silent for the most part out of combat. An alternative to that is Gestalt Characters. To summarize, each PC levels in two classes simultaneously, and takes the best stats and any abilities from either class. Eg, a monk/druid gestalt would have the monk saves, flurry of blows, wild shape, druid spells, and so on. It tends to make PCs a fair bit more powerful and a lot more flexible. You'd want to reserve veto power over anything too gamebreaking.
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Feb 23, 2011 07:19
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I suspect gestalt wouldn't help that much with that party, given their choices so far, but NPC party members are apt to be trouble as well(and some players don't handle having 2 characters that well), hmmm, I don't suppose you could downscale the fights they'd encounter ahead and throw them some suitable pets/minions to use as fodder?
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Feb 24, 2011 14:53
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Yeah, the problem with Gestalt is a lot of the difficulty in these encounters stems from managing either large groups of enemies of significantly tough ones (plenty of stone giants with class levels, dragons, other assorted nasty.) Fodder pets/companions add a lot of extra maneuvering in combat but seems a bit inelegant; so far the 'npc' presence in the party had been an Oracle who had a spell list of more or less nothing but healing and buffs for the party when they were still fighter/monk/sorcerer. I don't think the players are keen on role-playing two characters apiece, but the option could be explored; wish I could just pick up another pair of reliable players who aren't mutants--but most of the gamers I've met hereabouts over the last decade have been very grognard.
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Feb 24, 2011 15:16
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| # ? May 21, 2024 01:07 |
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If you were a level 17 Rogue and your DM gave you about 210,000gp to play with, what would you spend it on? That's the question I'm trying to answer since we just finished one of the campaign books and looted the treasure hoard. Even if I deck myself out in the best armour and double down on Swords of Subtlety, I've still got about 100,000gp kicking around that'd be burning a hole in my roguish purse, and I can't spend it all on hookers and beer.
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Apr 5, 2011 01:23
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